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Espresso Enthusiasts
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Well, I had my first cup of French Press in quite a while, and the first one I brewed at work too. It was marvelous to say the least. Plus I get the great aroma of *freshly* ground coffee in my office too.
Although, the strength of the coffee is remarkably weaker than the espresso I have been drinking exclusively. Who'd have figured?
Although, the strength of the coffee is remarkably weaker than the espresso I have been drinking exclusively. Who'd have figured?
I do use a burr grinder. I actually use a Lido 2 hand grinder. That thing is a beast! My grind typically is on the finer side of medium. For some beans it's closer to medium, slightly finer than sand or salt. What does your brew time normally look like? I know that it can vary by coffee, but I typically shoot for three minutes flat.
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At the end of the day, it's not so much about the equipment as it is being able to replicate your process consistently. Bravo.
I do use a burr grinder. I actually use a Lido 2 hand grinder. That thing is a beast! My grind typically is on the finer side of medium. For some beans it's closer to medium, slightly finer than sand or salt. What does your brew time normally look like? I know that it can vary by coffee, but I typically shoot for three minutes flat.
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At the end of the day, it's not so much about the equipment as it is being able to replicate your process consistently. Bravo.
Ah, the OE Lido 2 hand grinder?
The one that could cheerfully double up as an outsize chess piece and would happily do duty as a weapon?
That is what I use, as well.
Sorry, I guess I should've been more clear.
By high-end, I meant something with double-boiler with PID, like Slayer, GS3, Linea Mini, La Spaziale Vivaldi, etc.
I guess it's difficult to tell without trying these machines exactly what I'm missing out on, whether it's my skills, workflow, or the espresso machine.
Upgrading to an E61 brew group with PID is an option too, but I don't have access to one so it's not clear whether I can pull good shots consistently with one.
It just feels like when I brew with my setup at home, I don't get the taste or the visual of espresso shot from good cafes like Blue Bottle Coffee, et al.
Furthermore, I don't really enjoy the tinkering required with the Livia 90 to get a decent shot of espresso.
I know it's not my grinder, since I have a commercial-grade grinder (Compak) with a 68mm conical burr.
I guess I should befriend a barista at a cafe or something, so I can try pulling with a commercial setup.
Why not ask for a lesson or two - or, a tip, or two - from a barista - even a few minutes?
This does not mean that you will run the risk of threatening them by approaching their level of skill, but it might mean that you pick up a trick or two, or something - a knack, perhaps - that will allow you to improve how you make coffee?
And, if you don't enjoy "tinkering with" the Livia 90, is it that you don't enjoy 'tinkering with' any sort of espresso machine, or just this particular one?
If the former is the case, perhaps you might be better off investing in a wholly automatic machine instead? Not everyone enjoys the 'tinkering' aspects of espresso making.
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In light of the bold text part above I'd argue that the problem isn't the espresso machine, but rather your skills and/or beans, respectfully of course.
If you're not getting a taste that you desire from your setup I should ask you if you're using fresh beans. If you're using stale beans, the best espresso machine in the world isn't going to help.
Secondly, I assume you are using fresh beans since you are grinding your own when you intend to use them, right? Then I would suggest tinkering with your preparation. Keep all things consistent and change one thing at a time. The weight of the beans for a shot, your tamp pressure and extraction time. Then just adjust your grind a little coarser if the taste is too bitter or a little finer if its too weak. Keep doing this until you land on a grind setting for a particular bean of a particular roasted batch and you should find the right taste for it.
Thirdly, and this isn't going to be what you probably want to hear, but if you don't enjoy tinkering with your espresso setup, then perhaps making espresso at home isn't for you. The art of and the craft of espresso making is constantly tinkering with things, the freshness of the beans, the grind setting, keeping the tamp pressure the same, adjusting the extraction time and so forth.
Maybe you'd be happier with a super-automatic machine that does everything for you from grinding the beans to extracting a shot all with the press of a button. Of course, you have little choice but to accept whatever taste it produces as you will have nearly no control over its settings, but whatever it may offer you in programming.
I really doubt that the perceived temperature inconsistency of the Livia 90 is the driving force behind the shots you're getting and don't like. Based on what you've said, buying a GS/3, a wonderful machine to be sure, or one of the others you listed isn't going to improve the quality of the shots you're getting.The issue is something else and I think its in your production method.
I do use a burr grinder. I actually use a Lido 2 hand grinder. That thing is a beast! My grind typically is on the finer side of medium. For some beans it's closer to medium, slightly finer than sand or salt. What does your brew time normally look like? I know that it can vary by coffee, but I typically shoot for three minutes flat.
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At the end of the day, it's not so much about the equipment as it is being able to replicate your process consistently. Bravo.
Well, hmmm, the mystery deepens. So, I timed my pour this morning and it came out at 3m 50s. I think I've read that one should aim for about 4m. Perhaps your grind is too coarse? Your problem is perplexing to me...
It was Professor Plum in the conservatory with the coffee grinder.
Perfect!
I think I shall endeavour to introduce that weapon to this character......
So, we really like blending various beans, especially towards the end of a bag(s), when there's not enough of a single bean to make a full pot (or even a cup). So the blend-of-the-week here at the World HQ: local fresh market french roast + Ethiopian + a decent, organic (big chain grocery) medium Columbian + some residual extremely dark roast of unknown origin
Results = amazing Bold, sweet, nutty, a little cherry, some citrus undertones, it's crazy!
I also like that this will probably never be reproduced in these particular quantities again
Results = amazing
Bold, sweet, nutty, a little cherry, some citrus undertones, it's crazy!I also like that this will probably never be reproduced in these particular quantities again
So, we really like blending various beans, especially towards the end of a bag(s), when there's not enough of a single bean to make a full pot (or even a cup). So the blend-of-the-week here at the World HQ: local fresh market french roast + Ethiopian + a decent, organic (big chain grocery) medium Columbian + some residual extremely dark roast of unknown origin
Results = amazing
I also like that this will probably never be reproduced in these particular quantities again
Heh, I clicked on the coffee thread without really thinking about it, and as I read the beginning of your post I started to get excited for some sort of mixed bean stew recipe.
Heh, I clicked on the coffee thread without really thinking about it, and as I read the beginning of your post I started to get excited for some sort of mixed bean stew recipe.
Funny
You know, I love making n Bean soup (where n = 7, 8, 15, whatever). I get the dried beans in a bag, pitch the toxic seasoning pack - the trick is, we do this after we've had a huge ham (usually for christmas), so I take the big bone that's loaded with meat, get the beans, prep a big soup pot with some olive oil, onions, celery a little garlic (usual suspects), 50/50 mix of water and chicken stock, boil beans for a few, then season them up (chili powder, fresh pepper, fresh this and that, whatever comes to mind), toss in the ham (actually lower it in with a crane ...
), then let it slow cook for several hours. Oh, it's so good - straight up, over rice, as a side, as a full meal with some skillet cornbread and some fresh onion and cheese served on top.[edit]
Just for technical accuracy: the dried beans have to soak overnight, and even that is kind of fun, especially if you remember those foam growing animals you put into water - usually have about 4-5" of water over the beans in the pot, the next morning, it's all absorbed, and the beans are like 2x their original size
Heh, I clicked on the coffee thread without really thinking about it, and as I read the beginning of your post I started to get excited for some sort of mixed bean stew recipe.
A mixed bean stew recipe?
Actually, I rather like bean recipes (that is, coffee and legumes, both) and so would be an enthusiastic recipient of one should you care to transcribe it for us, and share it with us.
1) Yes, I'm using fresh beans. I get them within 3 days of roasting from various local roasters.
2) Yes, I am aware. These are basic skills of a barista.
3) I don't enjoy blindly brewing without knowing what the temperature and pressure are.
I find these questions a bit presumptuous. I've been brewing espresso at home for more than five years and have attended some introductory classes. More recently, I've had a more experienced hobby barista friend show me some new tricks to get more out of my setup.
While I am not a great barista by any means, even a village idiot can figure out that fresh beans are the most important factor in getting any kind of good coffee at home.
With all due respect, I don't know if you've ever operated a high-end machine before, like a GS3, but according to those who have used these different classes of machines, there is clearly a difference between a heat exchange espresso machine and a double-boiler PID'd machine with a saturated group and the difference is not just "skills of a barista."
Even among double-boiler PID'd machines, a prosumer home machine such as the La Spaziale S1 is apparently not as consistent as a Slayer or a Synesso, due to thermal stability, pressure profiling, steam output, etc according to those who have used both.
So with all due respect, it's not clear you know what you're talking about when you're comparing HX machines against commercial-grade espresso machines, at least according to the better informed opinions I've read from people who have used them.
Oh, dear.
Why the snarky tone in what is a really, rather lovely thread?
As with all such stuff that doesn't work, we all start with the obvious reasons of why it may not work (Occam's razor and all that) and seek to address, ameliorate, or circumvent them as necessary. When this as a cause has been eliminated, we can proceed to seeking out other variables to deal with.
Bear in mind, too, that this is a thread for enthusiasts, (and yes, amateurs, in that none of us actually make a living from coffee, buying, selling, or serving it), not for professionals.
Re-reading some of the earlier posts on this page, - the ones from @v0lume4 are what I have in mind - advice is sought - and tendered - in a spirit which is in no way presumptuous.
And, candidly, if the advice is not to your taste (all puns intended) why not shrug it aside and decide it is not for you, in your life and your circumstances as currently lived?
Without addressing the issue at hand I would just like to make a request that you follow the spirit of this thread which is based upon positive support and the gracious acceptance of advice, even when that advice may not be absolutely correct.
All of the regular denizens of this thread make a very conscious effort to maintain a cheerful, helpful, and positive attitude in response to the posts on the thread. When advice or suggestions are, at times, incorrect they are accepted in the spirit in which they are given which is to be helpful and supportive.
I can only request that if you find the advice or suggestions not to be useful that you might simply thank the person who posted that advice for the time and effort that they took to post that advice, and politely suggest that the advice was mistaken.
In specific response to your reply, in the almost 7000 posts on this thread, yours was, perhaps, the most unpleasant. While all are welcome on this thread I would hope that those joining all of us here would do so in the ongoing spirit of the thread.
Thanks…
I support your post 100%.
My only take on this matter is that you have to practice and tweak your setup. There's no black and white in espresso making. You either do it right or you do it wrong. Coffee of other kind has room for error, and thus is open to error that still delivers a lush cup. I, too, was once in this gentleman's shoes. Many years ago, when I was young and still green behind the ears, I ventured to Europe and fell in love with the various coffees there. Then when I came back, I went onto a path of buying what I could reasonably afford and amassed a small collection. There is so much fine tuning between types of coffees in terms of roast and origin, even the same single origin beans between vendors can be incredibly different. Now, granted I presume this gentleman is well versed on coffee given his past posts, what I can say and repeat at that, is that espresso is very unforgiving. Too strong a pull, and you don't get that white-ish crema, you get something dark and disgusting. Which is fine to serve as an Americano or add copious amounts of steamed milk and sugar, to make a sweet dessert coffee. Too weak a shot, and you get a crema that subsides quickly. It's a fine art. The concern of stale beans is an important notion. Beans freshly roasted will not be good for an immediate brew, given some time to breathe, they're fantastic. Beans stale for even 1-3 days will deliver sub-par results, no matter what you do.
And for what it's worth, I stayed out of this conversation because all the points were addressed and these other fine people have more patience and more knowledge than I do, despite having pulled shots for 3x as longer than they have. It's a continuous learning experience. One should always strive to better their coffee or tea knowledge. Having said all this, a lot of us, including myself, frequent other coffee boards or threads on other sites. So imagine my surprise when I come across a thread regarding this very thread today on another site due to a keyword alert. What little patience I had is now gone.
[doublepost=1472008162][/doublepost]And now, for something more positive, my chew sore is improving. Had some hot-ish tea at work today thinking it was cooler (Damn deceptive stoneware mug!) and I didn't experience sharp pain. Soreness, yes. I'd like some guidance, though. I'm looking for roasters that do cinnamon roasts or one step above, preferably west coast to lessen shipping times. Does anyone have a recommendation? I think I'll break my coffee "fast" with a very light floral roast.
And for what it's worth, I stayed out of this conversation because all the points were addressed and these other fine people have more patience and more knowledge than I do, despite having pulled shots for 3x as longer than they have. It's a continuous learning experience. One should always strive to better their coffee or tea knowledge. Having said all this, a lot of us, including myself, frequent other coffee boards or threads on other sites. So imagine my surprise when I come across a thread regarding this very thread today on another site due to a keyword alert. What little patience I had is now gone.
[doublepost=1472008162][/doublepost]And now, for something more positive, my chew sore is improving. Had some hot-ish tea at work today thinking it was cooler (Damn deceptive stoneware mug!) and I didn't experience sharp pain. Soreness, yes. I'd like some guidance, though. I'm looking for roasters that do cinnamon roasts or one step above, preferably west coast to lessen shipping times. Does anyone have a recommendation? I think I'll break my coffee "fast" with a very light floral roast.
Stale beans are a no no, for sure, but I wouldn't just go about assuming that others are using stale beans or that they are not skilled baristas, unless there is a reason to do so.
Perhaps my post or my less-than-stellar setup suggested that I was brewing 6 month old Starbucks coffee and tamping it with a spoon. If that was the case, well, I guess it was my fault.
But I certainly don't think that wondering what the benefits of a commercial-grade double-boiler PID machine with saturated group suggests that all hopes are lost for my interests in coffee or that I should go buy a superautomatic or a Keurig.
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And, with respect, I wouldn't go about assuming that others are being presumptuous - or seeking to find fault - when they are offering advice, making suggestions, or are simply trying to be helpful.
Your post above (post no. 6989) struck a jarring and unpleasant note in a thread known for its cheerful, friendly and welcoming ambience and is distinguished by its affable and easy going tone.
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Thanks to you kind folks on this thread, I have now purchased my first Friis coffee vault to keep our Yirgachefe beans beautiful and fresh. I had been keeping them in an airtight container and notice that after about four days the beans have lost their pizazz, which meant weekly purchases of a half a kilogram and the necessary trip into town to get them. My hope is to cut that down to a fortnightly trip and purchase, whilst retaining the freshness of the beans and allowing the CO2 off-gassing process, etc...
Probably the biggest thing I've learnt and gained advantage from this thread is not to keep any beans in my grinder, instead, dosing them out as needed. I feel that this in combination with the Friis coffee vault will lift our enjoyment of coffee that little bit more again. To me, every little step makes all the difference to the coffee making process. The next major move for me is the purchase of a better espresso machine and grinder, in their own time of course.
Probably the biggest thing I've learnt and gained advantage from this thread is not to keep any beans in my grinder, instead, dosing them out as needed. I feel that this in combination with the Friis coffee vault will lift our enjoyment of coffee that little bit more again. To me, every little step makes all the difference to the coffee making process. The next major move for me is the purchase of a better espresso machine and grinder, in their own time of course.
The benefit of cleaning equipment out regularly is that your stuff lasts longer but also because you remove or rather reduce the chance of spoilage if something is left behind. I use a cleaning product like Grindz, but also, and here's my ultra top hidden secret I've never mentioned before.... Cheap vodka! Yes siree, it works. I picked the tip up from a barista in my youth. She'd told me any plain cheap vodka would work. It cleans oils and sterilizes equipment. It also isn't a detergent so it won't alter the flavor of your beans. I typically use a teaspoons worth on my hands mixed with hot water and then they get scrubbed down with a stiff brush and then a sponge.
This post took too much effort to compose. I think it's time to retire to bed.
This post took too much effort to compose. I think it's time to retire to bed.
I've been looking at a few Gaggia Classic's on eBay and the newer models that people are not too happy about. Since Phillips bought Gaggia in 2009 (I think?) they have changed the machine, aluminium boiler instead of stainless steel and the solonoid valve that has a tendency to block. Anyway, what I can't seem to find out is when the first Gaggia Classic by Phillips was released? I did read somewhere (can't remember where now) that said it was the current 2015 model.
Does anyone know when the "good old" Gaggia Classic ended and become the "bad old/new" Gaggia Classic?
Does anyone know when the "good old" Gaggia Classic ended and become the "bad old/new" Gaggia Classic?
Cheap vodka - plain cheap vodka - for cleaning equipment?
What a wonderful idea, and actually, it is one I would never have thought of using; thanks for sharing.
The order of the Intelligentsia espresso cup has yet to arrive today, but it should be anytime now. In the mean time, here is a photo of the fresh batch of Dessert Oasis competition beans I ordered and which arrived today. This is my third batch of these beans and they're just marvelous too. Plus they left a very kind note with the order as well.
