Espresso Enthusiasts

[Kurwenal]

I recall being told not every Mazzer is good for certain grinds.

No single grinder is the best for everything, I think. My Compak F10 rules on ristrettos, but I prefer something else for espresso.

In the $1K price range, I don't think you can beat the Mazzer Mini, for general purpose use. There is a reason you almost always see a Mazzer sitting next to a LM at coffee shops.

I have two Mini's down in my coffee lab. Built like tanks, great burrs, easy to clean. I think you could throw them across the room and they would barely scratch. The only complaint I sometimes read is dialing them in with the neck adjustments is not the most intuitive thing on the planet, but once you get the hang of it, for futzting and tweaking, it's limitless adjustments are so much better than grinders with pre-set steps adjustments.

Here are my two M's, the one next to the Linea is used pretty much exclusively for testing espresso post-roast. The one to the left of the shot is my general purpose grinder to use for whatever I have going.

http://imgur.com/a/5yv6A

What are you thinking of using a Mazzer for?

 

[0388631]

What are you thinking of using a Mazzer for?

As in grinds or use cases?

Side note: Don't think I've ever heard of Compak, but wow, that F10 color scheme is delicious.


Edit: Sorry for the silly question, but is that your personal kitchen or do you own a coffee shop?


Edit 2: I'm thinking of starting a moka journal just to at least attempt to replicate good efforts over and over again. I'm currently, without regard, drinking a light roast I DID with those green beans from a few days ago. I was aiming for somewhere between a New England Roast (an American variety) and a medium. I've made a few "batches" now. Drinking 1-2 oz and pouring the rest into trays for ice cubes. They taste fine. I was aiming for extraction to get those nutty flavors but avoiding excessive acidity. I don't want to say anything I'm not certain about, but much like my previous comments, it matters how much you load in, how your mound is and if you do any tamping or fluffing of the espresso grind.

 

[0388631]

A discovery I made on the water that remains in the lower chamber.

I dove into decade old posts including old pre-forum posts on various usenets. The portion of water left is by design, so as not to overheat the metal. Also, any excess steam that doesn't come up the passage will drop back down and remain water. Though, this isn't quite correct as steam isn't going through the grounds. Water is.

Second note is something I have a habit of ignoring. Grounds! Grounds on the gasket or under, assuming back to back brews. It happens. What I didn't know up until 10 minutes ago was that even a 2x2 mm portion makes a HUGE difference in brewing. I got a fantastic crema (that did eventually dissipate) on this last brew after cleaning the gasket and drying the touching portions with a paper napkin. It came up in a beautiful black stream before fizzing towards blond. You could go further, but this is the bitter portion. I dipped the underside in a bowl of chilled water to stop the brewing process.


I'll have to repeat this a few more times this week before I completely abandon the Mother Theresa method of packing everything into a mound and forgetting it. I might try a wet aeropress filter to catch the fine material, albeit at a loss of flavorful oils. Too easy to drink the fine materials in the cup.

This reminds me of my first espresso machine. It took me about half a year to get a basic understanding of everything. Easy to do, hard to master.


On topic: 2 oz shot of the above (rest in the freezer) and a pint of cold water.

 

[JamesMike]

Having a cup of my next door neighbor Rwandan with brown sugar.

 

[0388631]

Double Turkish. Time to prep dinner.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Having a cup of my next door neighbor Rwandan with brown sugar.

Enjoy your Rwandan coffee (with brown sugar).

 

[0388631]

Some French pressed Tanzanian.

Did a Cafiza flush a few times today. Also made a citric acid solution to breakup any calcified materials.

 

[0388631]

Made a chicken malvani for one. Wishing I'd gone easier on the heat.

About to pull four shots of espresso, blend with muscovado sugar and over ice with organic almond milk to top it all off. Dessert and a way to stop my tongue burning in one.

 

[0388631]

Feel free to ignore if you don't use or own a Moka.

Oh, yes, I forgot to share this tidbit. As I said, I recently changed the gaskets on the mokas I own. The ones from rubber to silicone. I saw an improvement in "shots." However, I still faced bubbling issues. I woke up early this morning and started testing out on four different mokas I had in the 6 cup range. A starting preheat temp of around 90-102* F or 32-39* C (rounded), yields a very even stream from start to finish between medium and low flame. This is obviously dependent on how your burner settings are presuming you use a gas stovetop. You may have to take the knobs off and use a tool to fiddle with the gas regulator screw. Only at the very last few teaspoons did the moka sputter. I went ahead and repeated the test a few times.

This confirmed my findings and because I addressed the issue of a lighter/blonde brew coming up then turning into that black, gorgeous silkiness. In the lighter/blonde issues, I suspected it was remaining water I didn't quite dry out in the main chamber after giving it a once over with fresh water. Stainless steel mokas are designed differently than the traditional ones. I later discovered I wasn't packing in the grounds very well which lead to multiple channels opening up before the puck became pressed against the top filter and the brew darkened.

Brewing from 90-102* F allowed some oxygen in the water (though if you use mineral water, the taste is even better) before boiling inside, whereas off boiled water has little to no oxygen. Chemistry isn't my forte, but I suspect it makes a difference during contact time with the grounds. AFAIK from what I've read and seen in person, Italians typically use room temperature water or slightly chilled water. I've come pretty close to what I've had made by the hands of a native.

As an aside, may I suggest anyone who uses a moka to drop a nice shaving of orange peel in the main section as the brew is about to come down. It's delightful. Just remember to avoid dairy unless you enjoy curds in your coffee.


ETA: I dumped about 2 kilos worth of used pucks and grounds into the rose bushes yesterday evening, then turned some of the soil over with a small shovel. I don't feel comfortable using the regular bonemeal and worm castings I use with the kids walking around everywhere now. The company claims to UV sanitize it, but better safe than sorry. I'll switch to fish kelp in the winter, since there's no odor then.

I'm currently testing out some new mixtures for my used pucks. Mixtures for starting wood fires. Aiming for a cleaner burn unlike the current mixtures people use.

 

[Watabou]

Well, I finally gave in to the allure of espresso, and I went in big for my first espresso machine.



And yeah, I realize my grinder situation isn't great, I have one coming in the mail (Fiorenzato F4E Nano) but the espresso machine arrived first, and I couldn't help myself.

Had a decent cup after 8 tries, so for my 9th, I switched it to some fresh beans from Four Barrel (Brass Tacks blend) and it was a bit sour. Time to wait for the new grinder now.

 

[0388631]

Well, I finally gave in to the allure of espresso, and I went in big for my first espresso machine.

View attachment 714531

And yeah, I realize my grinder situation isn't great, I have one coming in the mail (Fiorenzato F4E Nano) but the espresso machine arrived first, and I couldn't help myself.

Had a decent cup after 8 tries, so for my 9th, I switched it to some fresh beans from Four Barrel (Brass Tacks blend) and it was a bit sour. Time to wait for the new grinder now.

Very nice purchase. My suggestion is to get a digital scale, if you don't already own one. I highly recommend Oxo. I also suggest buying a small composition book. Nothing fancy, you could probably pick one up from Staples/Office Depot for a buck at the moment. For the next few months, write down the weight of grounds you used, how long you pulled the shot for, how much you tamped, etc. You'll get a good idea of how to progress. Playing with light roasts is fun, too. You'll want to grind finer than espresso but not to Turkish, and go with higher temps and slightly longer brew. A strong bright cup, which can be taste sour but is not sour at all.

You'll also want a knock bucket for your pucks, but I'd recommend getting a metal canister with a lid and using that. It's cheaper and it doesn't stink up the area if you get lazy about dumping it. Best containers that hold up to abuse from whacking your portafilter on it are the Cuban style preground espresso available at a supermarket. The coffee in these are surprisingly not bad for their cheap price. With a few of them being close to Lavazza. Use within a week. The aluminum is thick enough to not bend even after hundreds of whacks. Dump it out into the garden every other day or your compost heap. Oxo makes a decent round palm brush (or they did) that runs about $6 last time I bought one. It helps scrub oils off the portafilter and dislodges anything that may spoil.

RE: Cuban style coffee. Use it fast. It works well in espresso machines, drip, French press or moka. Taste wise, it's very close to most pre-ground Lavazzas.

 

[Watabou]

Very nice purchase. My suggestion is to get a digital scale, if you don't already own one. I highly recommend Oxo. I also suggest buying a small composition book. Nothing fancy, you could probably pick one up from Staples/Office Depot for a buck at the moment. For the next few months, write down the weight of grounds you used, how long you pulled the shot for, how much you tamped, etc. You'll get a good idea of how to progress. Playing with light roasts is fun, too. You'll want to grind finer than espresso but not to Turkish, and go with higher temps and slightly longer brew. A strong bright cup, which can be taste sour but is not sour at all.

You'll also want a knock bucket for your pucks, but I'd recommend getting a metal canister with a lid and using that. It's cheaper and it doesn't stink up the area if you get lazy about dumping it. Best containers that hold up to abuse from whacking your portafilter on it are the Cuban style preground espresso available at a supermarket. The coffee in these are surprisingly not bad for their cheap price. With a few of them being close to Lavazza. Use within a week. The aluminum is thick enough to not bend even after hundreds of whacks. Dump it out into the garden every other day or your compost heap. Oxo makes a decent round palm brush (or they did) that runs about $6 last time I bought one. It helps scrub oils off the portafilter and dislodges anything that may spoil.

RE: Cuban style coffee. Use it fast. It works well in espresso machines, drip, French press or moka. Taste wise, it's very close to most pre-ground Lavazzas.

Thanks for the tips, the notebook seems like a great idea, I'm already getting way too many variables, even though I haven't changed the grind settings. Must be the tamp. My latest attempt was a bit more balanced, and flowed a lot more slowly, which is closer to the videos I've seen. I'm using the standard 18 grams of coffee each time just to keep the variables down, but maybe I'll try increasing that too.

I already have a scale I'm using from AWS, but I think I might try to buy another, this one is a tad too small and doesn't keep the portafilter balanced, I'll check out Oxo.

Regarding the knock bucket, due to the machine being fairly close to the sink, I'm finding it pretty easy to just make a throwing motion with the portafilter a couple of times and the puck falls right out, no need to whack it.

This machine also came with a polishing cloth and a cleaning brush kinda like a toothbrush with very firm bristles, so I've been keeping the brew head clean each time after my many tries. Manual says I still need to backflush daily with just water, and with the detergent weekly.

 

[0388631]

Thanks for the tips, the notebook seems like a great idea, I'm already getting way too many variables, even though I haven't changed the grind settings. Must be the tamp. My latest attempt was a bit more balanced, and flowed a lot more slowly, which is closer to the videos I've seen. I'm using the standard 18 grams of coffee each time just to keep the variables down, but maybe I'll try increasing that too.

I already have a scale I'm using from AWS, but I think I might try to buy another, this one is a tad too small and doesn't keep the portafilter balanced, I'll check out Oxo.

Regarding the knock bucket, due to the machine being fairly close to the sink, I'm finding it pretty easy to just make a throwing motion with the portafilter a couple of times and the puck falls right out, no need to whack it.

This machine also came with a polishing cloth and a cleaning brush kinda like a toothbrush with very firm bristles, so I've been keeping the brew head clean each time after my many tries. Manual says I still need to backflush daily with just water, and with the detergent weekly.

If you look through this thread, a moderator named SandBoxGeneral logged about his struggles getting the perfect espresso. I'm sure you can gleam a lot of information off of his posts. For polishing or cleaning up smudges, I've found using a 70/30 blend of water and cheap vodka you wouldn't otherwise drink be great at cleaning up smudges and other stuff. Few people realize how versatile cheap vodka is as a food safe solvent. For detergent, you'll probably want to get Cafiza unless your book says otherwise. Grindz, too, for the grinder, plus a stiff nylon brush to knock off baked on crud. Urnex makes some boiler cleaner stuff that's dyed, but I'm hesitant in recommending it because it may damage your boiler if it's not stainless steel or if any of the piping is aluminum.

For tamping, I seem to recall reading last year there being a click tool to tamp the correct weight for adequate espresso. This one was a click plate. Espro make a two piece tamper with a spring built in so you know when you're doing it right. Much like the machines, tampers are their own art. I've seen a lot of handcrafted ones with inlaid jewels and marble.

 

[JamesMike]

The LC is brewing a cup of Rwandan, milk and brown sugar standing by.

 

[0388631]

I give up. What is an LC?

 

[497902]

I prefer tea.

 

[Watabou]

If you look through this thread, a moderator named SandBoxGeneral logged about his struggles getting the perfect espresso. I'm sure you can gleam a lot of information off of his posts. For polishing or cleaning up smudges, I've found using a 70/30 blend of water and cheap vodka you wouldn't otherwise drink be great at cleaning up smudges and other stuff. Few people realize how versatile cheap vodka is as a food safe solvent. For detergent, you'll probably want to get Cafiza unless your book says otherwise. Grindz, too, for the grinder, plus a stiff nylon brush to knock off baked on crud. Urnex makes some boiler cleaner stuff that's dyed, but I'm hesitant in recommending it because it may damage your boiler if it's not stainless steel or if any of the piping is aluminum.

For tamping, I seem to recall reading last year there being a click tool to tamp the correct weight for adequate espresso. This one was a click plate. Espro make a two piece tamper with a spring built in so you know when you're doing it right. Much like the machines, tampers are their own art. I've seen a lot of handcrafted ones with inlaid jewels and marble.

Thanks I'll look through. Currently, I'm getting both bitter and sour shots. My Encore's 1 setting almost chokes the machine, but 2 seems to produce bitter AND sour shots. 3 and above are just way to coarse and even if I tamp it down firmly, i get watery shots.

I think I've drank more than enough cups for today trying different things but getting hesitant to drain decent shots down the drain.

I can't wait for my new coffee grinder to arrive next week.

I prefer tea.

That's nice. I prefer both. Heck I spent over $200 on tea this year alone, getting the Spring 2017 loose leaf teas from what-cha.com and yunnan-sourcing.

I prefer tea at work (because it's just easier to make it at work than bring my Aeropress, coffee, potentially make a mess). I have my tea station all set up with a Gaiwan I use to brew teas with.

And I prefer coffee at home.

Guess I don't have very many expensive hobbies yet.

 

[0388631]

We do talk about tea in here. I mean, usually it's me and Sceptical talking about the stuff. I prefer tea in the winter, and coffee during the warmer months. However, ice cold gin tea in the summer or spring is delicious, and so is the rare cappuccino during the winter. I do stick to drip in the winter. Big batch, metal filter means FP like coffee, and I can savor it over a couple hours thanks to a thermal carafe or thermos.

@Watabou I'm not familiar enough with the Encore, but IIRC it isn't the best for espresso. How fresh is your coffee? Coffee is best a couple days after roasting up to a week. With days 8-10 having a stale taste and then rapidly declining. There's a lot of overlap between grind setting, temperature, tamping and pull length. Like I said, it's a ton of variables.

 

[0388631]

No coffee tonight. Some iced tea.

I had some chiles from the garden tonight with dinner. I didn't think they'd be too spicy. I was wrong. Mouth is on fire, lip corner is swollen and my gums are aching from the pain. Very worth it, though.

 

[Watabou]

We do talk about tea in here. I mean, usually it's me and Sceptical talking about the stuff. I prefer tea in the winter, and coffee during the warmer months. However, ice cold gin tea in the summer or spring is delicious, and so is the rare cappuccino during the winter. I do stick to drip in the winter. Big batch, metal filter means FP like coffee, and I can savor it over a couple hours thanks to a thermal carafe or thermos.

@Watabou I'm not familiar enough with the Encore, but IIRC it isn't the best for espresso. How fresh is your coffee? Coffee is best a couple days after roasting up to a week. With days 8-10 having a stale taste and then rapidly declining. There's a lot of overlap between grind setting, temperature, tamping and pull length. Like I said, it's a ton of variables.

I actually got it this week, and it was roasted on 8/17, which is 8 days old now. But it doesn't have a stale taste, and it still tasted great with an Aeropress.

Yeah, Encore is fine, just not for espresso. I got it around 4 years back when I started with french press, Aeropress and then a Moka pot. I'll keep it for those, but the new grinder I'm getting will only be dialed in for espresso.

 

[0388631]

Give yourself a decade and you'll be eying up a Classe 7 or greater machine. Still trying to think of a way to convince my wife we just need a three grouphead commercial machine in the house.

Going back to your problem. Very likely the variables. Even 8 day roast should give sufficiently tasty coffee and good crema. If you can get an idea of when it tastes sour. Try to aim for a higher temp but a quicker shot by 2-3 seconds. I've found I can really dial in a grinder, but different coffees behave differently.

As for bad shots. Don't dump them into the sink. Dump them into your garden. Most plants love the acidity. That said, don't dump your pucks into your sink. You'll clog your loop up eventually.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Made a chicken malvani for one. Wishing I'd gone easier on the heat.

About to pull four shots of espresso, blend with muscovado sugar and over ice with organic almond milk to top it all off. Dessert and a way to stop my tongue burning in one.

While I love Asian food, I had never come across the term "chicken malvani"; I had to look it up.

Sounds delicious.

Feel free to ignore if you don't use or own a Moka.

Oh, yes, I forgot to share this tidbit. As I said, I recently changed the gaskets on the mokas I own. The ones from rubber to silicone. I saw an improvement in "shots." However, I still faced bubbling issues. I woke up early this morning and started testing out on four different mokas I had in the 6 cup range. A starting preheat temp of around 90-102* F or 32-39* C (rounded), yields a very even stream from start to finish between medium and low flame. This is obviously dependent on how your burner settings are presuming you use a gas stovetop. You may have to take the knobs off and use a tool to fiddle with the gas regulator screw. Only at the very last few teaspoons did the moka sputter. I went ahead and repeated the test a few times.

This confirmed my findings and because I addressed the issue of a lighter/blonde brew coming up then turning into that black, gorgeous silkiness. In the lighter/blonde issues, I suspected it was remaining water I didn't quite dry out in the main chamber after giving it a once over with fresh water. Stainless steel mokas are designed differently than the traditional ones. I later discovered I wasn't packing in the grounds very well which lead to multiple channels opening up before the puck became pressed against the top filter and the brew darkened.

Brewing from 90-102* F allowed some oxygen in the water (though if you use mineral water, the taste is even better) before boiling inside, whereas off boiled water has little to no oxygen. Chemistry isn't my forte, but I suspect it makes a difference during contact time with the grounds. AFAIK from what I've read and seen in person, Italians typically use room temperature water or slightly chilled water. I've come pretty close to what I've had made by the hands of a native.

As an aside, may I suggest anyone who uses a moka to drop a nice shaving of orange peel in the main section as the brew is about to come down. It's delightful. Just remember to avoid dairy unless you enjoy curds in your coffee.


ETA: I dumped about 2 kilos worth of used pucks and grounds into the rose bushes yesterday evening, then turned some of the soil over with a small shovel. I don't feel comfortable using the regular bonemeal and worm castings I use with the kids walking around everywhere now. The company claims to UV sanitize it, but better safe than sorry. I'll switch to fish kelp in the winter, since there's no odor then.

I'm currently testing out some new mixtures for my used pucks. Mixtures for starting wood fires. Aiming for a cleaner burn unlike the current mixtures people use.

Fascinating post, and I enjoyed reading it.

Makes me want to fetch out my own ancient moka when I return home.

The LC is brewing a cup of Rwandan, milk and brown sugar standing by.

Enjoy your Rwandan coffee; my Ugandan (coffee) cappuccino was delicious today.

I prefer tea.

Really?

And you wish to tell us the in a thread (look at the size and duration of it) dedicated to and devoted to all things coffee?

Well, enjoy your tea - each to his or her own.

@Watabou: Very nice purchase - I hope you enjoy it, and enjoy using it and enjoy making a lot of lovely coffee with it. Have fun.

The old hands here will tell you that it is very important to invest in a grinder that is at least as good as the espresso machine that you have just purchased.

 

[0388631]

Woke up for a glass of water, couldn't get back to sleep. Decided to have some coffee. And we're out of beans. Think we've got a box of VIA for emergencies or on the road travel. I'd rather not. Going to make a pot of green tea. Haven't had any in a while.
[doublepost=1503752160][/doublepost]

fascinating post, and I enjoyed reading it.

Makes me want to fetch out my own ancient moka when I return home.

Do it. I've stopped using the traditional aluminum because I can't be bothered to take care of it. I do have some very large aluminum pots for big crowds, though. I've got the Bialetti Elegance, I think that's what it's called, it's a 10 cup, IIRC.

A six cup version is perfect for a nice 10 oz mug of coffee with the remaining 2 oz tossed out because it contains sediment, and it's something I'm avoiding these days because it does raise bad cholesterol.

With organic heavy cream and some sugar, it keeps me satisfied for 6-7 hours. The excessive caffeine I've been having lately has done nothing to me. A mere increase in heartbeat. Can't be bothered with a reset either, it takes months for my body to adjust.

To me, coffee is the experience and flavor now.

 

[Watabou]

Made a pretty good cappuccino today, turned out nicely except I messed up steaming the milk so I didn't get a lot of microfoam. Still tasted pretty nice. Got bright notes this time, instead of downright sour notes.

The espresso shot itself was still a bit sour, but I tried to use 19g of coffee this time, which seems to have help add more balance. Maybe I'll try 20g next time.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Made a pretty good cappuccino today, turned out nicely except I messed up steaming the milk so I didn't get a lot of microfoam. Still tasted pretty nice. Got bright notes this time, instead of downright sour notes.

The espresso shot itself was still a bit sour, but I tried to use 19g of coffee this time, which seems to have help add more balance. Maybe I'll try 20g next time.

View attachment 714647

What coffee do you use?

These days, I don't opt for coffees that are "sour". Or bitter (much though I like those notes in other facets of my food or cuisine).

I have come to realise that I prefer smoother, sweeter, brighter, "cleaner", clear tasting notes: In practice, that tends to mean African coffees, but - and it is a big but in the world of espresso - these tend to be relatively lightly roasted.