Espresso Enthusiasts

[Madhatter32]

I was in a pinch early this morning and went to Starbucks. I got a a medium roast. I usually can tolerate a their blond coffee without issue but they were out. I could not finish the medium roast. I shudder at what what the dark roast would taste like. Drank half and the balance went into the rubbish. I am offended that Staples considers that coffee. I usually try not to post pure negativity ... so please just consider this post as a warning.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I was in a pinch early this morning and went to Starbucks. I got a a medium roast. I usually can tolerate a their blond coffee without issue but they were out. I could not finish the medium roast. I shudder at what what the dark roast would taste like. Drank half and the balance went into the rubbish. I am offended that Staples considers that coffee. I usually try not to post pure negativity ... so please just consider this post as a warning.

Some people who know that I love coffee, but who do not, themselves, much care for coffee, have, in the past, out of a sense of misplaced kindness, suggested Starbucks as a venue when arranging a meeting.

I have to agree with you re the coffee in Starbucks: (The actual cafés tend to be quite pleasant).

However, their coffee is poor, thin, stale, bitter, (over-priced, too, but that is a separate argument, for, I will happily pay a premium price for a premium product), and - quite frankly - to my palate, quite perfectly horrible.

These days, if the choice is ever left to me, I will never suggest Starbucks as a place to meet, notwithstanding the agreeable ambience of their cafés.

 

[Macky-Mac]

I was in a pinch early this morning and went to Starbucks. I got a a medium roast. I usually can tolerate a their blond coffee without issue but they were out. I could not finish the medium roast. I shudder at what what the dark roast would taste like. Drank half and the balance went into the rubbish. I am offended that Staples considers that coffee. I usually try not to post pure negativity ... so please just consider this post as a warning.

When I'm down on my luck and the mysterious forces of the universe present Starbucks as my only choice, I stick with a milky drink that has been tinted with something from an espresso machine.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

But, (apart from the power and influence of ubiquitous advertising) why does it have to be Starbucks?

These days, in many (if not most) places, you will find small, almost invariably excellent, local, coffee shops (frequently staffed by knowledgeable enthusiasts) where the ambience, coffee, and welcome are all superior (to Starbuck's).

And these are the places I frequent, instead of deigning to darken the door of Starbucks.

 

[Macky-Mac]

But, (apart from the power and influence of ubiquitous advertising) why does it have to be Starbucks?

These days, in many (if not most) places, you will find small, almost invariably excellent, local, coffee shops (frequently staffed by knowledgeable enthusiasts) where the ambience, coffee, and welcome are all superior (to Starbuck's).

And these are the places I frequent, instead of deigning to darken the door of Starbucks.

Your personal circumstances may never put you it a situation where the choice is Starbucks, or an even worse store, or no coffee at all.....but unfortunately it happens occasionally for some of us.

In some places the coffee shops you refer to are so popular that occasionally there are times when there isn't a seat available, or the line is simply too long to tolerate. In my neighborhood there are quite a number of nice coffee places, but there are also quite a number of local people who enjoy these places.

Locally, we've had a couple of weeks of rainy cold weather, but today it was sunny and warm. I think the whole neighborhood decided it would be nice to go out for a walk and have a coffee with friends.

(I found an open seat at the 4th place I tried and had a very nice flat white)

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Your personal circumstances may never put you it a situation where the choice is Starbucks, or an even worse store, or no coffee at all.....but unfortunately it happens occasionally for some of us.

I wouldn't say "never".

I think "rarely" would cover it.

Certainly, hardly ever, by personal preference.......but, needs must, agreed.

In some places the coffee shops you refer to are so popular that occasionally there are times when there isn't a seat available, or the line is simply too long to tolerate. In my neighborhood there are quite a number of nice coffee places, but there are also quite a number of local people who enjoy these places.

Unfortunately, the small, excellent, local, coffee shops - serving superb coffee and staffed by knowledgeable enthusiasts - do tend to be rather small.

Alas, you are quite right, there.

In general, I succeed in managing to snatch at seat - as I am toute seule, much of the time - this does not pose a problem; however, if someone - or, worse, two people - is, or are, accompanying me, then, yes, - finding a seat in a small, excellent, local coffee shop - can pose a greater challenge.

Locally, we've had a couple of weeks of rainy cold weather, but today it was sunny and warm. I think the whole neighborhood decided it would be nice to go out for a walk and have a coffee with friends.

(I found an open seat at the 4th place I tried and had a very nice flat white)

Enjoy.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

I was in a pinch early this morning and went to Starbucks. I got a a medium roast. I usually can tolerate a their blond coffee without issue but they were out. I could not finish the medium roast. I shudder at what what the dark roast would taste like. Drank half and the balance went into the rubbish. I am offended that Staples considers that coffee. I usually try not to post pure negativity ... so please just consider this post as a warning.

Starbucks opened a number of outlets in Australia. After several years most of them were closed.
There are a number of online articles about why they failed here. They talk about expanding too quickly, not understanding the local market properly, etc, etc, etc.

They never discuss the real reason -- that Starbucks serve cr@p coffee.

McDonalds did something similar, they changed over from filtered coffee to espresso coffee. Unfortunately it was bad, bad, bad. (I know, I was one of the early victims.) However, they took the criticism to heart and in three weeks had totally upgraded their brewing to provide quite acceptable coffee. Imagine a company as big as McDonalds making a major improvement across Australia in only a few weeks. I might not like their hamburgers but I applaud their business management.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Starbucks opened a number of outlets in Australia. After several years most of them were closed.
There are a number of online articles about why they failed here. They talk about expanding too quickly, not understanding the local market properly, etc, etc, etc.

They never discuss the real reason -- that Starbucks serve cr@p coffee.

McDonalds did something similar, they changed over from filtered coffee to espresso coffee. Unfortunately it was bad, bad, bad. (I know, I was one of the early victims.) However, they took the criticism to heart and in three weeks had totally upgraded their brewing to provide quite acceptable coffee. Imagine a company as big as McDonalds making a major improvement across Australia in only a few weeks. I might not like their hamburgers but I applaud their business management.

Yes, and - at the end of the day - McDonalds make (or lose) their name (mainly) on the quality of the burgers they sell, and not on coffee, for coffee is an optional extra - though an important one - for a burger chain.

However, for Starbuck's, coffee is the defining product, the product that defines what they are, what they do, what they sell, and, if your coffee is dire (and Starbuck's coffee is dire), then, as a coffee shop, frankly, you have failed, as you leave an awful lot to be desired.

 

[Madhatter32]

Starbucks opened a number of outlets in Australia. After several years most of them were closed.
There are a number of online articles about why they failed here. They talk about expanding too quickly, not understanding the local market properly, etc, etc, etc.

They never discuss the real reason -- that Starbucks serve cr@p coffee.

McDonalds did something similar, they changed over from filtered coffee to espresso coffee. Unfortunately it was bad, bad, bad. (I know, I was one of the early victims.) However, they took the criticism to heart and in three weeks had totally upgraded their brewing to provide quite acceptable coffee. Imagine a company as big as McDonalds making a major improvement across Australia in only a few weeks. I might not like their hamburgers but I applaud their business management.

Indeed. I have found McDonald's coffee to be not too bad -- especially for a mass-market provider and most certainly relative to Starbucks. I wonder if this is just a microcosm of society at large where good has become bad and false narratives have become truth. Perhaps a little too philosophical for this thread but, yes, I agree with you.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Indeed. I have found McDonald's coffee to be not too bad -- especially for a mass-market provider and most certainly relative to Starbucks.

I find this fascinating for two reasons:

Firstly, the reputation of McDonalds rests on burgers, not coffee, yet, following (presumably negative) feedback (on the foul brew that they served), they were prepared to take the trouble to improve the coffee they served, and they did.

Secondly, the reputation of Starbuck's is about coffee, and nothing else, yet their coffee is appalling, - weak, thin, bitter, stale, over-roasted - and they have yet to take steps to address that.

I wonder if this is just a microcosm of society at large where good has become bad and false narratives have become truth.

Hm.

Not always true, and doesn't have to be true.

Perhaps a little too philosophical for this thread but, yes, I agree with you.

Fair enough.

 

[adrianlondon]

I've posted this before (the "Starbucks" topic comes up regularly in this thread) but Starbucks isn't in the business of serving decent coffee (espressos, Americanos etc.) but caffeinated milky drinks and (very) sweet cold drinks in summer.

They provide wifi and somewhere comfy to sit with a big mug of coffee flavoured milkshake

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I've posted this before (the "Starbucks" topic comes up regularly in this thread) but Starbucks isn't in the business of serving decent coffee (espressos, Americanos etc.) but caffeinated milky drinks and (very) sweet cold drinks in summer.

They provide wifi and somewhere comfy to sit with a big mug of coffee flavoured milkshake

I hear you.

And you are all too depressingly right.

But, to coffee lovers, - the fact that their 'brand' is about selling what they pass off as "coffee" is almost offensive to what real coffee is all about.

In truth, no genuine coffee lover will ever suggest "how about meeting in Starbuck's?" Such suggestions invariably come from people who either don't know about coffee, or don't like coffee.

I suppose that Starbuck's is a success, for, candidly, it is complete triumph of marketing the idea of the ambience and comfort of a European style café to people who don't actually much like coffee.

 

[Macky-Mac]

I've posted this before (the "Starbucks" topic comes up regularly in this thread) but Starbucks isn't in the business of serving decent coffee (espressos, Americanos etc.) but caffeinated milky drinks and (very) sweet cold drinks in summer.

They provide wifi and somewhere comfy to sit with a big mug of coffee flavoured milkshake

You're spot on.

I've read that in the US, their beverage sales are something like 75% cold drinks (some of which have some coffee, some of which don't). It was the introduction 30 years ago of the "Frappuccino" that started their shift from "premium" coffee shop to seller of more popular refreshments and snacks.

It was that "coffee flavored milkshake" that caught the attention of McDonalds. They realized that upgrading their crap coffee and adding some other coffee flavored things could expand their product line and improve profits. Starbuck's success also lead Dunkin Donuts to improve their crap coffee too since Starbucks was cutting into their "coffee and a donut" market

The cold coffee drink thing has reached an unfortunate point where even some of the newer decent coffee places now ask "hot or cold?" if the customer asks for a latte.....but these are mostly places where there's never any place to sit because all the seats are occupied by people working on their laptops; yet another negative development in the world of coffee houses

 

[Scepticalscribe]

You're spot on.

I've read that in the US, their beverage sales are something like 75% cold drinks (some of which have some coffee, some of which don't). It was the introduction 30 years ago of the "Frappuccino" that started their shift from "premium" coffee shop to seller of more popular refreshments and snacks.

It was that "coffee flavored milkshake" that caught the attention of McDonalds. They realized that upgrading their crap coffee and adding some other coffee flavored things could expand their product line and improve profits. Starbuck's success also lead Dunkin Donuts to improve their crap coffee too since Starbucks was cutting into their "coffee and a donut" market

The cold coffee drink thing has reached an unfortunate point where even some of the newer decent coffee places now ask "hot or cold?" if the customer asks for a latte.....but these are mostly places where there's never any place to sit because all the seats are occupied by people working on their laptops; yet another negative development in the world of coffee houses

Ah, fascinating.

I would never have considered that the introduction of the "Frappuccino" would have had such an impact on how coffee is marketed and sold.

Dreadful, but makes an awful lot of sense.

Enjoyed a coffee from El Salvador earlier today, with hot (Jersey) milk.

 

[Madhatter32]

I find this fascinating for two reasons:

Firstly, the reputation of McDonalds rests on burgers, not coffee, yet, following (presumably negative) feedback (on the foul brew that they served), they were prepared to take the trouble to improve the coffee they served, and they did.

Secondly, the reputation of Starbuck's is about coffee, and nothing else, yet their coffee is appalling, - weak, thin, bitter, stale, over-roasted - and they have yet to take steps to address that.

McDonald's uses a well-known gourmet coffee supplier called Gavina in California that tightly controls the quality. Starbucks sources it's beans directly from wherever -- including China from what I understand.

Gaviña Coffee: A McDonald's Coffee Supplier | McDonald's

Gaviña Gourmet Coffee, a McDonald's coffee supplier, is made to make each cup of coffee delicious. Learn more today!

www.mcdonalds.com

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Perusing coffee sites, while enjoying coffee from El Salvador.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Enjoying a coffee from El Salvador with hot milk.

 

[Macky-Mac]

When I made my morning coffee today I realized that the package of Mexican coffee has very little left after today's brew, probably just enough for one more large mug full.

 

[mtbdudex]

My review of LoCo TN “Brazil” roast
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Cliff notes: Try the "Brazil" roast, I did based on talking to Scott and totally love it!

The rest of the story: I've been an serious espresso drinker since mid 2010's when I got my first machine, a DeLonghi EC155 15 Bar Espresso and Cappuccino Machine. Loved the weekly/daily shots of espresso. Used various beans / etc.

Then upped my game in October 2017 and got a Breville Barista Express Espresso Machine, Stainless Steel. That stores the beans, grinds them to various coarseness, you manual tamper the puck (I love that part), then single or double shot it. Of course frothing milk is optional, I do that on weekends not weekdays. Yea - I consider myself an espresso snob, and proud of being one.

Anyways, let's talk about Scott's beans. I did not know Scott, but a Chicago friend of mine "Lou S" does and recommend Scott to me. I called Scott on the phone and we "connected" over stuff, including espresso. So, I bought four 1 lb bags of "Brazil" and it was exactly what I needed, strong yet not over powering. Scott's note on the bag read "Dark coco with notes of molasses, walnut, almond milk, and hints of dried fruit".

Let me tell you, be prepared for a treat, as some say a "joy and delight".

I just sent two 1 lb bags to my brother as his house warming gift, he deserves it.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Enjoying an afternoon mug of coffee from El Salvador.

 

[Macky-Mac]

When I made my morning coffee today I realized that the package of Mexican coffee has very little left after today's brew, probably just enough for one more large mug full.

Fortunately it turned out to be enough for two more mugs of it....and now I'm sipping the last of it

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Fortunately it turned out to be enough for two more mugs of it....and now I'm sipping the last of it

Enjoy.

I'm almost at the end of my coffee from El Salvador.

 

[mtbdudex]

Ok, be honest with me, are you espresso people:

-single shot drinkers?
-double shot drinkers?
Or
-the full Monty double-double shot drinkers?

Me, I’ve been a double-double shot drinker many years now, I simply hit that right button twice.
Well not a truly “by the book” double-double shot as I don’t grind a second puck for the 2nd one.

Dogs got me up 5:45am, so here I am with the am fix.

Side bar:
We reuse the picks into our garden area with that stainless container on the left, others same?

 

[adrianlondon]

Single shot. Four times if necessary.

I like the routine of making an espresso, and the smell of the beans being ground, so I'd rather do that four times over a couple of hours than just the once. This is a bit hypothetical, as I wouldn't have four espressos in such a short time!

Plus, my machine (a DeLonghi) doesn't actually use twice as much coffee when making a double versus a single, so that's another reason to have two single espressos instead of a double.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Single shot, mostly, for the reasons that @adrianlondon has already explained.

I prefer savouring two, or three, or four separate espressos, rather than sipping one that has been strengthened.

Now, on occasion, I will treat myself to a double shot if I feel that I require that splendid extra strength of a double shot; for example, immediately preceding a lengthy meeting. And, sometimes, while out, I may also order a double espresso, just for the caffeine hit.

Oddly enough, when my father was still alive, when we met for coffee (and this was enjoyable, not remotely stressful), I almost invariably had a double espresso.

However, in general, I would prefer two espressos, one after the other, and, in common with @adrianlondon, I love the ritual, and routine, of preparing, or serving, an espresso.