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JimmyjamesEU

Suspended
Jun 28, 2018
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From the Arstechnica review


Interesting that even though Cinebench is far from optimised for the M1 or arm in general, the M1 Ultra is very close to the i9-12900... at a fraction of the power. One can only imagine how badly it will beat it when more of that neon optimisation lands!

From the same place we can see that when an industry standard benchmark is used (geekbench) intel's best is humiliated.

People are gonna need to search for more irrelevant benchmarks and cherry picked stats to keep the x86 crowd happy.
 

JimmyjamesEU

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Jun 28, 2018
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Does M1 Ultra scale well?
It's an interesting question. As far as I can tell, the answer is: it depends. If the test runs for long enough, or moves enough data, then it does seem to scale. If it relies on short bursts of activity, or the test is unoptimised for the M1 it doesn't.
 

ader42

macrumors 6502
Jun 30, 2012
436
390
One in each hand.

If you're talking about tile size, Blender did away with manual setting since version 3.0 since it's obsolete with Cycles X.
Thanks, yes some sw calls it buckets others call it tiles. Didn’t know that about CyclesX - and it could explain a lot…

I found this:



Where a poster said:


Thanks everyone for making this a reality. Version 3.1.0 2021-12-16 is already a solid performer for me (MBA M1).

Some observations are raising questions though.

With tile sizes smaller than the output image there is only one tile at a time rendering (as opposed to as many as there are threads), also rendering times become longer. Take the BMW scene:
Tile size 2160 > 1 min 03
Tile size 512 > 1 min 54
Tile size 64 > 2 min 40


I know in previous Cycles iterations (before CyclesX) one could specify bucket/tile size and this affected render speed, as did the progressive render option - which I assume is also on by default. I know non-Apple Silicon GPUs often prefer small buckets so I suspect that this might be one issue / area for optimisation.
 

jmho

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2021
502
996
If you're talking about tile size, Blender did away with manual setting since version 3.0 since it's obsolete with Cycles X.
I believe nVidia renders progressively without tiles with Cycles X, but the Metal backend doesn't. The default tile size is set to 2048 in the BMW GPU scene.
 

ader42

macrumors 6502
Jun 30, 2012
436
390
It’s a little odd that the above poster got 1 min 03 seconds with an M1 MBA 8 core GPU BMW render but people are getting 33 seconds with M1 Ultra with 64 cores…
 

Homy

macrumors 68030
Jan 14, 2006
2,507
2,459
Sweden
Does M1 Ultra scale well?

Not as we want, depending on the application. Anandtech said for example that Geekbench is short burst benchmark and M1 Max/Ultra GPU doesn't get the chance to speed up to higer clock rates before the test is done. M1 GPU seems to need more time than Intel/AMD to speed up. If you go to gfxbench.com M1 Ultra is faster than RTX 3080 and close to 3090, but Ultra is not 2x faster than Max. Also Anandtech explained last time reviewing M1 Max/Pro that M1 seems to be CPU bound in games and can't use all the memory bandwidth to feed its fast GPU.

Skärmavbild 2022-03-18 kl. 01.41.22.png
 

vladi

macrumors 65816
Jan 30, 2010
1,008
617
Here's an interesting tidbit about performance and Apple Silicon. It's from the arstechnica forum (with the original post from a Redshift page on facebook, and also from the Maxon forum).

also

A very high end render scene 'Moana'.

The M1 Max completes the scene faster than lol but a 3090. Faster than a 3080, faster than 2x2080ti.
It's not video editing and it can be (with optimisation) very fast indeed.

edited to correct the mistake that the M1 Max is faster than a 3090. It should have said “faster than all but a 3090”.

This is completely irrelevant workflow because high end production such as this "Moana" will always be put in renderfarm. There will be no Mac Studio GPU renderfarms unless your company buys Studio for each cubicle person and then performs night time render sessions. Users with Mac Studio or single/dual RTX cards will never ever be put in such intensive situation. So this much like synthetic benchmarks are useless.
 

jujoje

macrumors regular
May 17, 2009
247
288
This is completely irrelevant workflow because high end production such as this "Moana" will always be put in renderfarm. There will be no Mac Studio GPU renderfarms unless your company buys Studio for each cubicle person and then performs night time render sessions. Users with Mac Studio or single/dual RTX cards will never ever be put in such intensive situation. So this much like synthetic benchmarks are useless.

I'm going to have to vaguely disagree on this one as well. The Moana data set is useful as its indicative of the kind of the data set in film and, increasingly, tv industry. Totally agree that there would be no Mac Studio GPU render farms, but that's not what makes the Moana dataset / benchmark interesting from a high end production point of view.

While it is primarily designed as an offline render test, its interesting to see how performant it is for interactive rendering, and that's an area that the Mac Studio is more designed for, and a workflow that film studios seem to be heading towards. The more representative and accurate scene you can load locally the better it would be for doing, lighting, shading and general lookdev and layout tasks on your workstation. This is very much what the discussion on that arstechnica thread was leaning towards.

Take for example the train Coco scene that Pixar use to sell the idea of xPU and USD; you can load the entire set, do set dressing, define shot cameras, do lookdev, lighting and switch to different render delegates all in on file (with no need to split out sets, worry about continuity or publishing things to multiple shots). This seems to be where things are heading, and having a GPU on your workstation that can handle that sort of workflow is obviously going to be a massive benefit, particularly as using GPU render delegates for lookdev seems to be the goal, at least as far as Renderman and Karma xPU go.

But even if your not aboard the usd / hydra delegate hype train take a typical FX shot where you have, say, some high resolution explosions and some destruction, a high res set. Your scene data is going to be, what, 10Gb a frame and that's just geometry caches, then you've got dicing, displacement, subframe motion blur and so forth, so let's say to render it's around 40Gb. With a Mac Studio you can load that data onto the gpu and do lookdev, getting feedback in realtime, with minimal scene prep and no out of core cacheing, because unified memory. Final frames can go to the farm, because farm time is cheaper that artist time, but you're maximising your artist time and getting faster time to first pixel and quicker iteration time.

To a certain extent all these benchmarks of how long it take to get to final frame on the Blender BMW benchmark are somewhat missing the point in terms of this kind of workflow. You're not going to have artists waiting 20 min staring at a render bar for that last 10% of the render - it's the time to first pixel, interactivity and first 10% - 20% of the render time which is important.

In terms of pro 3D workflows the GPU architecture seems to me to be a bet on a vision of the future, not entirely dissimilar to the vision of the trash can Mac Pro, with it's dual graphics cards and compute power. Let's hope it pans out better.
 
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Sopel

macrumors member
Nov 30, 2021
41
85
https://gfxbench.com/result.jsp?ben...rch-unknown=true&arch-x86=true&base=deviceNot as we want, depending on the application. Anandtech said for example that Geekbench is short burst benchmark and M1 Max/Ultra GPU doesn't get the chance to speed up to higer clock rates before the test is done. M1 GPU seems to need more time than Intel/AMD to speed up. If you go to gfxbench.com M1 Ultra is faster than RTX 3080 and close to 3090, but Ultra is not 2x faster than Max. Also Anandtech explained last time reviewing M1 Max/Pro that M1 seems to be CPU bound in games and can't use all the memory bandwidth to feed its fast GPU.

View attachment 1975522
you cherrypicked a cpu-bound result ?


1647591849162.png


OR maybe this website is completely *******? can you spot what's wrong? There's also a bunch of 60fps results due to vsync ?. This "benchmark" should never have been shared.
 
Last edited:

Homy

macrumors 68030
Jan 14, 2006
2,507
2,459
Sweden
you cherrypicked a cpu-bound result ?


View attachment 1975689

OR maybe this website is completely *******? can you spot what's wrong? There's also a bunch of 60fps results due to vsync ?. This "benchmark" should never have been shared.

What do you mean? Aztech Ruins High Tier Offscreen is used by many reviewers. Do you mean that 3090 has higher scores in that test? Which test are you showing? M1 Ultra has mixed results in GFXBench. In some tests it's slower than M1 Max for some reason.
 

Sopel

macrumors member
Nov 30, 2021
41
85
What do you mean? Aztech Ruins High Tier Offscreen is used by many reviewers. Do you mean that 3090 has higher scores in that test? Which test are you showing? M1 Ultra has mixed results in GFXBench. In some tests it's slower than M1 Max for some reason.
At fps this high you're basically testing only cpu and the driver overhead
 
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