EU Fines Apple $2 Billion for Anti-Competitive Behavior Toward Spotify

[djphat2000]

That's a rather poor analogy, but in any case what does it matter? You are the one who gets to set the price.

The reason it's a poor analogy is that Apple doesn't provide all the support they do for altruistic reasons. They do that so that the hardware they want to sell you is a viable product and we all already pay for that through Apple's sizeable margins.

you do not pay for that. the price of the device is the price of the device. can't compare to a game console that sells at a loss. these are different things.

I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious.

Beyond that they should absolutely be able to provide additional services to run on that platform and be compensated for them, but the iPhone isn't a store. Neither is iOS.

The iPhone comes with a store. You don't have to use it. You could potentially only use the apps that come with the phone and use the store to keep it up to date only.

 

[tehabe]

So Spotify pays Apple nothing, while getting access to all of Apple's iPhone customers.

Why should pay Spotify Apple anything? It was Apple's decision to close down the platform so that Spotify can only reach their customers on the iPhone via Apple's App Store.

If your argument is that Spotify shouldn't pay Apple anything. Then how to you support the store?

I think the question is a different one. How and for what is Spotify paying Apple. Apple has costs for running the App Store and maybe developing the tools. The latter argument fells flat because the developer tools were always free for Mac users or did anyone pay for Xcode?

The price for offering something on the App Store shouldn't be much higher than the actual costs Apple has running it.

 

[ohthehorror]

$2 billion is a lot of cheddar. While I am a believer of openness on where apps can be installed from (like the Macintosh framework), I have to wonder if Apple will eventually consider stopping business in the EU as there is the potential for these massive fines.

Or don’t break the law and not pay a fine. How about that for a novel idea?

 

[bcortens]

$99 barely pays for a few app reviews.

Spotify submitted nearly 1 new update per week. now estimate how much Apple spends on servers to serve Spotify binaries to the order of billions of downloads per year.

$99 is essentially free.

So? If Apple wanted to earn revenue from big app devs they shouldn't have created the reader app exemption. They created this mess with their own inconsistent rules.

This big fine is also because Apple wants to be more than a platform, they want to compete with apps on their platform, and they can't do that while simultaneously putting in place rules that make it more expensive for their competition.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

The EU culture, that big government is going to save them, that instead of innovating and competing through sound business practices, they will simply legislate, fine and bully business — won't end well for the EU.

You can take your "wins" now; but this hole that you already are in, the tech hole that's causing you to craft and twist silly laws to try to punish outside tech companies, will only dig that hole deeper and deeper.

Cheer why you can, EU citizens. There is no universe in which this silly behavior brings a long-term win.

 

[Zest28]

Preventing Spotify from adding a button in their app that just says "subscribe here" that opens a web view would not harm Apple. Preventing it is just spiteful anti-consumer behaviour.

So, are you able to put advertisements in someone his store that a consumer can buy it cheaper if he goes to your store?

 

[andrewxgx]

Doesn't matter, EU is going to collapse in the next 10 years simply due to demographics.

its not like US economy is dependent on EU buying their expensive phones, computers, software, AI accelerators, etc, right?

 

[cardfan]

Time for Apple to readjust the "exchange rates" in EU countries.

2% increase should cover it... fines absorbed. profit stays the same.

And time to knuckle down harder on that app to seamlessly move Spotify playlists to Apple Music.
Soon as they get that working, I'll be converting my paid Spotify account to Apple Music.
Perhaps Tim can offer a nice sweet deal to encourage switchers? In a non noncompetitive way of course...

Sounds like something apple would do. It’s fine. EU and others will keep going after them. It’s only the consumer losing if you don’t go after Apple.

 

[DaPhox]

I never had a big issue with Apple wanting to skim 30% on its app store.
What I have a huge problem with is Apple not letting the App owners show other ways to sign up for the app.

They dont have websites?

 

[sw1tcher]

I'll pay you $100 per year for using your car. And I'll drive it for Uber and make a lot of money on it. Incase there is a repair, the cost is on you. Is that a fair deal?

Paying only the annual developer fee and nothing else while making a lot of money through the Apple App Store seems to be okay for companies such as McDonald's, Walmart, Amazon, Target, Uber, etc.

Or are you telling us that the Spotify app requires more resources than apps from McDonald's, Walmart, Amazon, Target, Uber, etc?

 

[AndiG]

$2 billion is a lot of cheddar. While I am a believer of openness on where apps can be installed from (like the Macintosh framework), I have to wonder if Apple will eventually consider stopping business in the EU as there is the potential for these massive fines.

$2 billion ois nothing compared to the taxes Apple normally should have to pay in the EU. And as additional information - Apple is not owned by Tim, Phil or Craig. Those are just employes that are employed to care for the money of the stockholders. The stockholders again have one goal (the same goal like Apple): Make money, make more money and keep the money they made warm and safe.

So as long as Apple doesn't get kicked out from a country/marketplace it won't stop anything.

 

[jimothyGator]

Soooo…..are we still all defending Apple in this monopoly stuff?

How is Apple a monopoly? Name one market Apple monopolizes.

 

[AppliedMicro]

That you think Apple operates by using "taxes" again, shows me that EU supporters here have no understanding of the difference between business and government.

Calling it a tax is very fitting.

“A tax is a compulsory financial charge or some other type of levy imposed on a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a governmental organization in order to collectively fund government spending, public expenditures”

Apple see iOS as their dominion - and themselves as a quasi-government steward that makes and enforces the rules (laws) on what is appropriate. And acts as protectors of consumer’s security.

Also, taxes aren’t negotiated (they’re unilaterally set). Terms and conditions in business regularly are, especially between the biggest billion dollar companies.

 

[Beautyspin]

It shouldn’t be US vs EU, but unfortunately it is. As a european: it’s not any kind of conspiracy theory. Specially in tech, the EU has become ultra-protectionist, trying to clearly favour european companies due to the failure of most of them. Of course, in other fields (like food), it happens the other way around. Anyhow, it’s always sad.

So, Spotify is the bigger player than Apple Music even though Apple preferences it on iOS, but EU companies are failing?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Why should pay Spotify Apple anything? It was Apple's decision to close down the platform so that Spotify can only reach their customers on the iPhone via Apple's App Store.

Open Safari. Type in "spotify.com." On the iphone.

But you knew that already. Right? Right?

 

[jimothyGator]

Apple is not a monopoly in any of the markets they compete in. In almost every market from smartphones, to tablets, to computers, they only have a small % of the market share.
Google is a monopoly in search engines. Microsoft is a monopoly in computer OS, and so on. Android has a large market share on smartphones. Spotify has over 50% market share in EU. If you claim Apple is a monopoly because it controls its own ecosystem, they you don't understand what a monopoly is.

Does anybody know what the word “monopoly” means anymore?

 

[AppliedMicro]

How is Apple a monopoly? Name one market Apple monopolizes.

“Apple is currently the sole provider of an App Store where developers can distribute their apps to iOS users throughout the European Economic Area (‘EEA')”

You need just read the press release:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_1161

 

[born4sky]

Why wouldn’t they fine apple? Since they get all the money…

 

[bcortens]

So, are you able to put advertisements in someone his store that a consumer can buy it cheaper if he goes to your store?

It isn't in Apple's "Store" if the link is in the app... Apple doesn't own the screens in the app itself...

Again, this rule doesn't make sense because Apple doesn't make any money from Spotify. Spotify already doesn't pay Apple anything. All this rule does is annoy consumers.

 

[Jim Lahey]

EU busybodies should do something useful like fining Apple one hundred trillion dollars for deleting Space Gray from the MacBook Pro 👍

 

[Blue Hawk]

I’m not feeling sorry for this

 

[O.N.Y.X]

How cute: The EU stepping in to defend one of its (very) few global players Spotify against one of the biggest tech giants Apple. Apple is approximately two orders of magnitude bigger than Tinyf- err Spotify.

Someone hand me the popcorn, please.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Calling it a tax is very fitting.

Again, this is emblamatic of how silly these conversations have become on "ihateapple.com"

It's becoming increasingly tedious trying to have a serious, intellectually honest conversation on this site.

 

[AndiG]

Can we just rename MacRumors.com to AppleHaters.com?

Once upon a time people were excited to hear what new hardware and software we had to look forward to...

Totally agree. Remember the times of leaked iPhone parts, iPad rumors - just remember "One more thing". But Steve passed away and so did excitement, innovation and new hardware.

Everything that remains is the glow of bygone days.

 

[AlexESP]

Why should pay Spotify Apple anything? It was Apple's decision to close down the platform so that Spotify can only reach their customers on the iPhone via Apple's App Store.

They could have also decided not to allow any third party apps, and stick to native ones. That was iPhoneOS 1.0. The fact that some people think all smartphones should allow sideloading doesn’t mean that everyone should be forced to do it like that.