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They have a developer program for $99 and an enterprise one for $299. Spotify likely pays for the enterprise one.
Enterprise doesn't allow App Store distribution, so no.
There's about 494,000 iOS developers, so even if every one of them paid $99, Apple's getting about $49 million per year. That's not even counting Mac developers.

Spotify @ 150MB app costs $3 million/month to distribute to 100 million users @ 4 updates per month at standard AWS S3 rates.

There are about 2 million apps on the App Store. Large portion of those apps are larger than 150MB and get updated many times a year. $49 million per year doesn't even come close to covering this @ current AWS S3 prices.

Then there is App Store review process, free unlimited MapKit usage (which google charges thousands per month for), free backend/database usage, and so on.

Now to put your argument to the test, should I have to pay Apple a fee every time I wanted to download something from my iCloud Drive?


Can you download 2TB in one month which would cause Apple to have a net loss on you? Sure. But Apple has plenty of data showing most customers don't use that much bandwidth. Apple remains profitable due to the iCloud storage plans.

And this is another reason why Apple doesn't want to increase 5GB free storage. Just doubling it to 10GB would likely incur hundreds of millions of dollars in added costs since more storage means more data transfer back and forth.
 
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Oh, so you think Microsoft should get the 30% cut of the web ad revenue then?

Listen, I like Apple devices and services too, but I can see when they are being blatantly greedy, and that’s what trying to take a 30% cut is in this case.

If you buy a movie from Apple, they deserve a 30% cut because they are hosting that movie. They have nothing to do with the music hosted on Spotify, so Apple does not deserve a 30% cut of Spotifys monthly subscription revenue. That’s just ridiculous. Should your cell phone service provider or ISP get a 30% cut of your Apple Music subscription? You wouldn’t be able to listen to it without them.

For everyone saying Spotify wouldn’t exist without the App Store, you have it backwards. The App Store wouldn’t exist without the apps. Without a good selection of apps, your platform is dead. Just look at BlackBerry and Windows Phone and tell me how they turned out without decent apps.

App stores have existed since before the iPhone, but Apple made the concept a household name for regular people with the iPhone. It has done a lot of good and makes it easy to find new apps. But that doesn’t mean they should profit off the monthly revenue of services offered by other companies.
None of your examples are marketplaces and like it or not, Apple collects a fee for services in aggregating it's customers to one place to buy digital (and other) goods. You may not like it, but it's been profitable for all. Epic got greedy after making hundreds of millions of dollars.

And spotify is free to leave the apple platform. I'm sure they could offer a web based streaming service and do very well or even open up avenues on other platforms that support some type programmable application. Even though you don't appear to like their business model, it's a good one for all.
 
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It isn't "freeloading" to merely tell users they can sign up elsewhere for less money. Apple's anti-steering rules are by far the most outrageous and indefensible parts of the App Store.
The expectation is that if they take payments elsewhere, they will skip Apple's 15-30% cut like it was just credit card fees. However, it is really an efficient way for Apple to take the royalties that they will still demand otherwise - just with things like third party auditors.

Regulators can say that things are unfairly bundled, but they can't really say that Apple has to provide platform access for free. For instance, I will be surprised if Apple doesn't take a cut from alternative app stores once they are regulated into being.
 
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Where did I say they shouldn't pay anything?. If they want their Apps on Apples App Store then there should be a charge for that, should it be 30%? In my view, that's about 20% too high.

Thankfully, the EU looks like there going to open up Payment options for Users so if something costs $2.99 on the Apple App Store but $1.49 on another App store then I have no issue what so ever with that. Competition has always been good for consumers.

The EU is going to start opening up Apple's systems, no amount of jumping up and down is going to change that. Just like USB-C, the EU won't allow Apple to change something and still attempt to rip people off.
The EU will start unbundling Apple's systems, but they simply can't regulate a company to have to give portions of their product away for free.

Look at what happened with dating apps in the Netherlands. Apple still takes a (slightly smaller) cut of those financial transactions, even when they happen outside in-app payments.

Expect a similar cat-and-mouse of regulators complaining while not actually being able to outright mandate that a commercial enterprise provide services for free.
 
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Sure but what’s special about Spotify?
We're discussing Spotify because that's what the article is about...?

I’m sure there are lots of free apps that have millions of downloads every month.

Sure and free app that don't earn Apple money would be a net loss for Apple to distribute. Apple continues to allow this because the economics from App Store and IAP revenue of other apps works out.

If majority of current top earner apps convert to web based purchases exclusively, guaranteed Apple will need to change how this works.
 
Whether or not people say it... facts are facts. Third-party app stores and side loading apps is an express lane for getting malicious software into devices. As a mobile and web developer by profession, I can assure you I am under incredible scrutiny as to what I can get in the Apple App Store. On Android, I can put pretty much anything I want on your device via third-party. Data hoarding is the least of your worries if I'm allowed what you are asking.

I have some android devices and I’ve been using Fdroid for years so far so good. I understand the risk but again I’m in favor of a third party app store preferably open-source oriented like Fdroid on the iPhone. Those who feel paranoid about it don’t have to use it. I prefer protecting myself instead of big tech pretending doing it for me.
 
Regulation is good. Just ask the people of Flint.
Regulation is good in more traditional businesses.

In technology, it is way more difficult. Specially with services that are not “essential”. As music is.

Regulating services has always been a difficult process. Because no matter how well a government does it, at the end you end up crippling innovation.
 
I have some android devices and I’ve been using Fdroid for years so far so good. I understand the risk but again I’m in favor of a third party app store preferably open-source oriented like Fdroid on the iPhone. Those who feel paranoid about it don’t have to use it. I prefer protecting myself instead of big tech pretending doing it for me.
But why should government regulate this directly? Let the market do it by itself.

If Apple where giving everything for free to kill any competition, then sure, regulate it. But Apple is by far one of the most expensive companies in any service.
 
In my view there is an real conflict and unfairness when a company owns the platform and also competes on that platform, and where there is a no real competitive or alternative platform. Simply allowing alternative app stores would fix the problem, but I don't think it's the most optimal fix to the problem.

Apple owns the App Store, but it also competed against other sellers on the platform (Music, TV, etc.). And, as I explained above, since almost all smartphones are designed such that it's impossible to cross-shop on other platforms, there is no true competition.

Amazon owns the Amazon marketplace, but also competes on against sellers in the marketplace (Amazon Basics and other in-house brands). And there is pretty much no competition. Sure Walmart has a third-party platform, and technically ebay is another selling platform, but both of those in terms of third-party retail platform are tiny compared to Amazon.

Google does this with Android smartphones and the Play Store same as Apple. But Google also does this with advertising - they own the advertising platform, and it competes against it's own customers in a ton of areas.

All of this, to me, should be illegal. In my view, there should be a blanket rule that a single entity cannot both own/control a platform and compete on that same platform. You have to pick one or the other, but you cannot do both.

I agree with you. It’s a unique situation we’re living in right now bad actors in open markets (viruses, scams, ransomware etc) and bad actors among those who control closed markets (monopoly). I don’t see any perfect solution to this, even opening up the app store to third party apps imo won’t fix the Spotify dilemma. To quote the WAPO “Apple plays a dual role in the app economy: provider of access to independent apps and giant competitor to them.”

Btw thank you for the info about Amazon. In the future I’ll try to avoid amazon basics and essentials as much as I can and buy goods from independent sellers.
 
I agree with you. It’s a unique situation we’re living in right now bad actors in open markets (viruses, scams, ransomware etc) and bad actors among those who control closed markets (monopoly). I don’t see any perfect solution to this, even opening up the app store to third party apps imo won’t fix the Spotify dilemma. To quote the WAPO “Apple plays a dual role in the app economy: provider of access to independent apps and giant competitor to them.”

Btw thank you for the info about Amazon. In the future I’ll try to avoid amazon basics and essentials as much as I can and buy goods from independent sellers.
Indeed there is no easy solution.

I’ve always hated that big corporations can squeeze out small companies by offering cheaper prices.
Big companies always end up killing competition or buying them.

I’m just not so sure Apple is one of those companies.
They are by no means cheap, and they normally tend to make great quality products.

EU is just going after them because Apple is the cool company.
 
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But why should government regulate this directly? Let the market do it by itself.

If Apple where giving everything for free to kill any competition, then sure, regulate it. But Apple is by far one of the most expensive companies in any service.

Apple is even competing with small independent apps on the app store example the new journaling app they're giving it for free because they're too big and they can afford it. Now small journaling apps must spend more money and more resources to compete against a free app that comes pre-installed on every up-to-date iPhone. As per governments intervention, it’s the mess they’ve created. The bigger the government the larger in size businesses have become.

 
Question for everyone who thinks Spotify owes Apple: is your argument then that Apple should get rid of the ‘reader’ app category and kick any app off the store that doesn’t include IAP (with a cut of that IAP going to Apple)? Should Netflix, Spotify, Kindle etc. be thrown out of the App Store because they don’t offer IAP and aren’t paying Apple anything (outside of the developer fee)?
For the record, I don't think Spotify owes Apple. So my next point is - do you want an answer that is right, or do you want an answer that's rooted in ideology?

US anti-trust law is very clear. Businesses have no duty to deal with third parties, even if they are monopolies (as such, I am not going to bother discussing whether Apple is a monopoly or not. I maintain that it isn't, many people are convinced that Apple demonstrated monopolistic tendencies, it's irrelevant to my point). Furthermore, if these businesses choose to deal with third parties, they can choose the terms on which to do so (like charging developers 50%, or even 70%). The key exception is if the monopoly changes the rules in an unprofitable way to drive out competitors, or changes access to after-market parts and services.

Apple has done neither. That's why they priced Apple Music at the same amount as Spotify, when they could easily have undercut Spotify and driven them out of business. Is it unfair that Apple Music is preinstalled on every Apple device and Apple doesn't have to pay 30%? Maybe, but again, nothing has changed. Likewise, Apple has never made their repair parts available to third parties, so they can't exactly be sued in this manner either.

This means that yes, Apple is well within their rights to tell Spotify that they are free to remove their app from the App Store if they are not happy with Apple's pricing policies. Policies which have been in place since the inception of the App Store, and which have only gotten more lenient with time, not worse. Apps like Netflix, Spotify and Kindle are not obligated to be in the App Store, so in this regard, I will argue that they need Apple more than Apple needs them. In the absence of Spotify, chances are that another music streaming service would have been launched to take its place, or Apple could have launch their own (and they did).

This is also why Apple was always destined to win their lawsuit against Epic, because it was Epic who violated the terms of their agreement first, not Apple.

So yes, by a strict reading of Apple's App Store policies, these companies are supposed to allow users to sign up within the app. That's what led to the whole drama with the Hey and Wordpress apps a few years back. That's why the "reader" app exception exists. Because these companies didn't want to be paying Apple 30% of subscription revenue, but at the same time, Apple wasn't prepared to go all the way of kicking them off the App Store, because it would just be a worse experiences for users.

Let’s say I buy a carbonated drink maker appliance at Target. Let’s say Target gets a percentage of the sale (or the appliance maker pays Target for the shelf space). But let’s say this drink maker offers a subscription service for drink flavorings or Co2 cartridges. Should you only be allowed to sign up for that subscription service inside Target so Target can get a cut? Or once you take the appliance home is Target out of the picture?
It really depends on how the manufacturer argues his case.

The way IAPs are structured on iOS appears to draw a distinction between digital and physical goods. That's why a subscription to Fantastical would incur a 30% cut to Apple (15% from the 2nd year onwards), while groceries purchased via the amazon app don't.

I understand why Apple did it (ease of collecting payment), I don't quite agree, but my proposed solution (to charge based on the marginal cost of the product, which was in turn suggested by Ben Thomson, author of Stratechery, is also demonstrably much more complex to apply). Another possible alternative (suggested by John Gruber) is to only charge games 30% (since those make up the bulk of App Store revenue collected anyways) and leave every other app alone. This would do away with the need for reader app exceptions, and allow companies like Amazon to let users purchase ebooks within the kindle app while still keep 100% of revenue. A win for everyone.

So in your scenario, a case can be made that the user could be allowed to subscribe to a recurring subscription for say, coffee pods to be delivered to one's house from within the app linked to the appliance, and the manufacturer shouldn't need to pay Apple a cent, because it involves the delivery of physical goods (which also incurs a fairly high marginal cost of production) not consumed on one's mobile device.

Are you aware of any such precedences? Genuinely curious. :)
 
Maybe Americans complain less about Apple's fees as they are already used to paying ridiculous high property taxes for homes they already own. In Germany we only pay a small amount of property taxes for the plot, which makes some sense, because a plot requires infrastructure from the cities. The are no recurring taxes on the house though. I imagine if someone had to pay hundreds of dollars of taxes per months on his own house, he might not complain about a $3 per month or so fee from Apple.

The US also still have junk fees like "resort fees" in hotels, that are completely illegal in the EU. So in the US you might book a hotel on booking.com or where ever, pay the price in advance, but when you arrive at the hotel, they will only give you the key to your room, if you pay that extra nightly fee, which is up to $70 per night in some hotels. Companies only charge those fees because they can. So governments have to stop them.

Ticketmaster is also infamous for its fee. Unfortunately this post is not far from the truth:
FhSwNGlWIAgqpzJ.jpg


At the moment the US are working on eliminating all those junk fees that were eliminated in the EU many years ago. I wonder if many Americans will see that as an attack on the "free market".
 
Indeed there is no easy solution.

I’ve always hated that big corporations can squeeze out small companies by offering cheaper prices.
Big companies always end up killing competition or buying them.

I’m just not so sure Apple is one of those companies.
They are by no means cheap, and they normally tend to make great quality products.

EU is just going after them because Apple is the cool company.

I don't think the bureaucrats in the EU are equipped to handle this but the current model is imo a win-lose especially when Apple itself is providing the same service as Spotify without paying a 30% commission and they get to advertise Apple Music for free since the Music app comes pre-installed on every iOS device andin many cases new iPhone users are given 1 to 3 months for free to try it out. Apple could easily let Spotify include a button for users to pay outside of the app store. This abuse of power always invites government intervention which in turn will make things even more complicated.
 
Looks like it will be in Spotify's favour. Apple will have to allow external payments
 
I don't think the bureaucrats in the EU are equipped to handle this but the current model is imo a win-lose especially when Apple itself is providing the same service as Spotify without paying a 30% commission and they get to advertise Apple Music for free since the Music app comes pre-installed on every iOS device andin many cases new iPhone users are given 1 to 3 months for free to try it out. Apple could easily let Spotify include a button for users to pay outside of the app store. This abuse of power always invites government intervention which in turn will make things even more complicated.
Indeed. There is no perfect system.
A more open system like the one in the US favors more innovation, at the same time, it favors for big companies to grow to big. Which in the end Makes small companies have a hard time staying alive.
 
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Also true. I edited the post to say that it's a mutually beneficial relationship.
That’s why when the developer makes money, Apple makes money, and when the developer doesn’t make money, Apple doesn’t make money.
 
Ahhh the Apple defenders are strong on this one, saying Spotify is 'freeloading'. lol, what a crock of BS. Spotify just as with every other developer PAYS...let that sink in Apple defenders, PAYS Apple a yearly fee for their app to be hosted in the app store.

What Apple is doing to Spotify and many others is preventing them from doing what consumers do all the time which is go in to a shop, look at the price of something they want and then go elsewhere to see if they can find it cheaper. Just think of the uproar if consumers were told they had to buy what they see in the shop and were not allowed to go elsewhere to find it cheaper. Apple is doing that to Spotify. Spotify have their own website where prices are cheaper but Apple prevents them from putting notifications of such in the app.
 
Ahhh the Apple defenders are strong on this one, saying Spotify is 'freeloading'. lol, what a crock of BS. Spotify just as with every other developer PAYS...let that sink in Apple defenders, PAYS Apple a yearly fee for their app to be hosted in the app store.

What Apple is doing to Spotify and many others is preventing them from doing what consumers do all the time which is go in to a shop, look at the price of something they want and then go elsewhere to see if they can find it cheaper. Just think of the uproar if consumers were told they had to buy what they see in the shop and were not allowed to go elsewhere to find it cheaper. Apple is doing that to Spotify. Spotify have their own website where prices are cheaper but Apple prevents them from putting notifications of such in the app.
I think the problem is the annual developer fee is not designed to cover those hosting costs. If people want the costs of running the App Store to be paid by the annual developer fee then they probably need to accept that the fee will be higher, which has the potential impact of reducing access for developers due to the barrier to entry being higher.

But that might be a compromise people are willing to take (although not useful if Apple don’t think that; Apple probably wants to keep access to the App Store as low as possible so that there are as many developers as possible).
 
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So Walmart can put up signs in Costco that it is cheaper to buy the product at Walmart?
 
nope. amazon sells third party services too. tire installation, home assembly, computer assembly, accidental insurance coverage, etc..
Are any of these third party subscription services that entitle Amazon to a share of the ongoing subscription cost?
 
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