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Eye strain - Returned my 2019 16" Macbook Pro
- Thread starter pragmaLT
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It is. Just check (or uncheck, can't remember the logic) to show all profiles available for the display. Unfortunately for me, this didn't alleviate the problem although it was immediately better it was still difficult to focus on text + sense of movement/shimmering. Side by side with my 2017 MBP the display looks very similar except when it comes to actually focus on the content. Same problem I have with any MacBook since 2018. I spent hours playing with True Tone, Profiles, Brightness, Calibration etc. I'm still convinced it's a driver rather than panel issue despite the panels being different and 2018 onwards using PWM. I say this because my 2017 is not as pleasant on the eyes under Big Sur as it was under High Sierra and I've had issues with a 2017 Surface Pro following a Windows update. Rolling back made it perfect again. There's now several threads on here and LEDStrain.org suggesting I'm far from alone and but sadly no closer to the explanation or solution.
I could tell the difference side by side with 2019 MBA and M1 MBA. The M1 MBA looks whiter with true tone and auto brightness off. Because of that I changed the whitepoint which has made things better. But like you and some others I still observe flickering/brightness variation/intermittent fuzzy characters, etc. that cause both eye pain and headaches.
I'm not sure whether to try another MBA or give the M1 MBP a shot. I could go back to the old machine, but I'm finding it really, really slow.
It's really sad because Apple builds such aesthetically pleasing products and yet they have these weird issues that negatively impact what might otherwise be an amazing ownership experience.
So my 2017 13 inch MBP running Catalina doesn't cause eye strain. But when I upgrade it to Big Sur it does. Rolling back to Catalina fixes it. Interestingly when I run Big Sur on a 2018 MacBook Air it doesn't seem to bother me nearly as much. Something strange going on with the graphics/text rendering software that behaves differently on different models and can change even on the same model with different OS versions.
For me, when I upgraded to Big Sur on my 2019 MBA, I did notice some eye strain, but changing the background from default to a dark image of the Big Sur coast helped.
I found the best thing for my iMac 27" and it blocks blue light, it's a plastic UV / Blue Light filter.
I originally found a privacy filter that you stick on, and that did not change the intensity. Instead, it made part of the screen slightly in the dark. On the positive side, the privacy filters block out the glare. But, as mentioned, they only block 20-22% of blue light (and the straining feeling is still there).
I then tried a clear plastic filter, that is literally a piece of plastic that hangs over the screen, and though it also has the glare, the intensity is nearly gone. I can see white letters on dark background, or just white backgrounds on a website without that agitated feeling (especially for prolong usage). While the glare can be annoying, at least your eyes will be protected.
> See: https://www.amazon.com/Screen-Widescreen-Desktop-Monitor-Excessive/dp/B07CRPWX93/
Just a week after I tried it, I noticed that my eyes were wide open when I went out in the sun (often there is an adjustment period). I also sleep better, now, too. If only this company could make it for 15 -inch screens; they have one for 19-in screens though: https://www.amazon.com/Screen-Widescreen-Desktop-Monitor-Excessive/dp/B073T5J216/
Hope this helps.
I originally found a privacy filter that you stick on, and that did not change the intensity. Instead, it made part of the screen slightly in the dark. On the positive side, the privacy filters block out the glare. But, as mentioned, they only block 20-22% of blue light (and the straining feeling is still there).
I then tried a clear plastic filter, that is literally a piece of plastic that hangs over the screen, and though it also has the glare, the intensity is nearly gone. I can see white letters on dark background, or just white backgrounds on a website without that agitated feeling (especially for prolong usage). While the glare can be annoying, at least your eyes will be protected.
> See: https://www.amazon.com/Screen-Widescreen-Desktop-Monitor-Excessive/dp/B07CRPWX93/
Just a week after I tried it, I noticed that my eyes were wide open when I went out in the sun (often there is an adjustment period). I also sleep better, now, too. If only this company could make it for 15 -inch screens; they have one for 19-in screens though: https://www.amazon.com/Screen-Widescreen-Desktop-Monitor-Excessive/dp/B073T5J216/
Hope this helps.
I'm finding that I still have trouble with Monterey, about the same as with Big Sur.
For me Monterey changed nothing.
Anybody tried to install Wondows via VM on those new macs ? I just bought a Windows machine and.. have absoluteley no eye strain with it. Same with a Samsung Galaxy Tab S7 plus. I thought oh well it might be only Macs, and bought a new iPhone 12... but it is now causing me eye strain WTF ! So it looks for me that I cant use any Apple screens. I tried them all. Macbook air M1, iPad air 3, iPad pro M1, iPhone 12, iPhone Xr, they all cause me eye strain. The only ones that does not are older Apple products (MBA 2016, IPad Air 1, iPhone 6S), Windows and Android machines.
Anybody tried to install Wondows via VM on those new macs ? I just bought a Windows machine and.. have absoluteley no eye strain with it. Same with a Samsung Galaxy Tab S7 plus. I thought oh well it might be only Macs, and bought a new iPhone 12... but it is now causing me eye strain WTF ! So it looks for me that I cant use any Apple screens. I tried them all. Macbook air M1, iPad air 3, iPad pro M1, iPhone 12, iPhone Xr, they all cause me eye strain. The only ones that does not are older Apple products (MBA 2016, IPad Air 1, iPhone 6S), Windows and Android machines.
Did you try an iPhone SE?
Interesting that you had problems with the iPhone XR as well.
Disappointed to hear you had trouble with the iPP. Was that 11" or 12.9"? I was thinking of giving the 11" a shot.
Which Windows machine did you get?
1)
In fact yes I t ried the iPhone SE2020! It was my phone before I bought the iPhone 12. It was in between in terms of eye strain. I did have more than the iPhone 6S if I used the SE for long periods of time (ex. 2 hours a day while I could use the 6S four 5-6 hours if I wanted to with no problems). But it was way less eye strain than the iPhone 12 which is quite instant (more than 30 min a day and I get dry eyes and photosensitivity). Initially I thought that it was the PWM, but my Samsung galaxy tab s7 plus also work with PWM. Maybe it's the frequency that bothers me, but I highly doubt it since the iPhone 12 PWM is low frequency just as my Tab s7 + (which I. get absolutely no eye strain from, I can use it for 10 hours without eye strain which I do because I take notes and study on it), and the iPad pro M1 12,9 has high frequency PWM but I. get the exact same eye strain as the iPhone 12 and Macbook air M1.
So in summary, the SE2020 did cause me eye strain but far less than the 12.
I am beginning to think that there may be something with the colors. It always look to me as the colors on Apples new screens are off, like too intense. Something interesting is that I have a very very mild color blindness, I am wondering if other people here are also color blind (not full color blind but the very mild cases) and if the fact that color profiles seem to help some might play a role. I am on the verge of trying to use my iPhone with a black and white profile lol... what shame xD
2)
Yes weird that the XR and SE seem also to cause problems, but the SE is the one that is causing the less trouble.
3) It was the IPP M1 12.9"
4) I got the Lenovo Yoga C940 with the 1080 LCD screen. I can look at it almost as long as my Tab S7+ but the Tab S7+ is really the screen that gave me fate in the future. The C9490 is a great machine but the fan kicks in quite often, but it's a small price to pay to be able to use a computer.
Not all hope is lost lol. Maybe I will switch my iPhone 12 for a galaxy S22 when it comes out, but I will have to check it in store before.
I'm now wondering if true tone capability is what is causing the problem. My 2019 MBA didn't have true tone and it didn't cause headaches, but the 2020 M1 MBA does. Also you mentioned the 6S doesn't cause problems but the 2020 SE does. I'm not sure if these phones use temporal dithering and I'm wondering if that could be an issue too.
Do the Samsung displays that work for you have a true tone equivalent and/or temporal dithering?
Hey, y'all! Popping on here in case my experience is helpful to anyone. I had a 2012 MacBook Pro 15" with a matte screen that lasted me for a good 9 years. In 2020, when I thought the laptop was hitting its time, I bought the MacBook Pro 16" and it caused eye strain, so I returned it. Around the same time, I had to upgrade my phone to an iPhone SE (the 2020 version). The phone screen was an adjustment for my eyes, as I originally thought the text looked a little blurry. But I was able to get used to it. (For those who may be wondering, I got my eyes checked in 2020 AND 2021 and I have near-perfect vision). This past fall, my 2012 laptop was acting a lot slower than usual, so I knew I needed to try upgrading again. I bought the latest MacBook Pro 16" with the M1 processor. It was horrible! The brightness of the screen was too much for my eyes. On a Google Doc, it was hard for my eyes to focus on the text. I knew part of the reason was the glossy screen, so I decided to try a matte screen with a non-Mac laptop. I ended up with a Lenovo Ideapad 5. The screen was fine on my eyes, but non-Mac trackpads are so finicky. I knew this couldn't be the answer either.
Long story short: I decided to try a MacBook Pro 13" because 1) the resolution would be lower (which I think the high resolution was harder for my eyes) and 2) the brightness of the 13" is lower than the new 14" and 16" MacBook Pros. The screen itself is less hurtful to my eyes. BUT what put it over the top and got it looking the closest it could to my former matte screen MacBook Pro was using a screen protector on it. The Kensington Magnetic privacy screen protector has a matte side that easily attaches (and detaches) to the screen. There's no glare, the brightness/contrast isn't intense, which makes my eyes really happy. Linking to what I used because I absolutely love it: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...agnetic-privacy-screen-for-13-macbook-pro-air
Anyways, I truly was worried that there wouldn't be a solution and that I'd have anxiety over this forever. I'm so happy with the results of the MacBook Pro 13" with the Kensington matte screen. I hope this helps!
Long story short: I decided to try a MacBook Pro 13" because 1) the resolution would be lower (which I think the high resolution was harder for my eyes) and 2) the brightness of the 13" is lower than the new 14" and 16" MacBook Pros. The screen itself is less hurtful to my eyes. BUT what put it over the top and got it looking the closest it could to my former matte screen MacBook Pro was using a screen protector on it. The Kensington Magnetic privacy screen protector has a matte side that easily attaches (and detaches) to the screen. There's no glare, the brightness/contrast isn't intense, which makes my eyes really happy. Linking to what I used because I absolutely love it: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/...agnetic-privacy-screen-for-13-macbook-pro-air
Anyways, I truly was worried that there wouldn't be a solution and that I'd have anxiety over this forever. I'm so happy with the results of the MacBook Pro 13" with the Kensington matte screen. I hope this helps!
Have you tried adjusting the display in the "Accessibility" Settings. I'm specifically referring to the "Increase Contrast"(set the slider just past the left end) and "reduce transparency" settings. I've gotten good text results on my 16" M1 MBP from these adjustments and keep my display scaled at 1312x848. I also turn on "true tone", P3-1600 Nits, Promotion, and night shift (way warm), full brightness with "auto brightness" turned off. I tried adding in little "magenta" tinting to further increase contrast...it looked great but my eyes began twitching and I had a bad migraine after week of use (the tinting must have cause increased PWM)...these issues went away once I turned off the tinting.
In Safari preferences...go to the "Advanced" tab and then select "Never Use Font Sizes Less Than __" you can start with 24pt and move lower to your tolerance.
In Messages and other apps set your font size higher under Text Size then "other".
I'm glad that worked out for you! So I already returned the 16" and settled on the 13" with the screen protector. Hopefully, the information you provided can help someone else who may still be trying out the 16".
Problems for me started in 2018 (with the MBP) and I believe this was the use of dithering to achieve a higher P3 gamut. Switching back to SRGB does help but is nowhere near as comfortable as my 2017. That said, the 2017 is not as comfortable as it was with Sierra or whatever it shipped with, after Catelina I certainly feel more strain. My 2017 Surface was also fine but Intel driver updates make this painful. Rolling back fixes the issues for me so I know (for me) it's related to this. For Windows, I use a program (ditherig) to disable temporal dithering. I'd love to try a MBP 2020 13 (Intel) but previous trials have been very short-lived with immediate visual discomfort. I check these posts regularly in the hope that somebody finds a fix. On the phone front, the XR is the newest last phone I can use without issues. I just bought a new one to get me through another 3 or 4 years.
I could have written this post exactly word for word. I'm curious where you found new unlocked XRs? Most places have stopped selling them. Which 2017 MBP do you have?
Apple UK still sells refurbished XR's fortunately for me. My MBP is a 2017 4-thunderbolt 13" with an A0034 panel. I noticed the issue as soon as I tried an A003E panel in 2018. I must have tried 20 examples since all with the same issue. A sense of flickering or motion in my peripheral vision and difficulty focusing (going cross-eyed) especially with text. Returning to my 2017 resolves the issue instantly. I noticed that in 2016 / 2017 there were at least 3 different panels. From 2018 onwards the 13" only comes with panel designated A003E, may or may not be relevant.
It used to be System Preferences > Display then select the colour profile. Various fields were then shown, I believe panel manufacturer and part number were at the bottom of the list. Doesn't look like this information is shown any longer in Monterey :-(
What a bummer that I could use a 1024x768 panel without millions of colors from 2000 with no problems, but a 2020 MBA has thrown me off completely. Progress? 
A lot of folks from ledstrain are starting to reach out to Apple to let them know to account for these issues in future products. I did that as well.
I think I will be forced to go Windows as the headaches are getting unbearable for me.
A lot of folks from ledstrain are starting to reach out to Apple to let them know to account for these issues in future products. I did that as well.
I think I will be forced to go Windows as the headaches are getting unbearable for me.
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I had the same problem on MBP 13" 2017 and on my current MBP 16" 2019. And both times i fixed it by resetting SMC and NVRAM. There is one more, very important remark ! I tried it many times and didn't succeed on MBP 16" 2019. I was only lucky when i did it when my battery was discharged. It's really difficult on this model. But the screens are perfectly ok, it's the SMC that causes problems.
The problem is that you now can’t reset the SMC and Vram on new M1 macs… at least that is what the apple rep told me on the phone. Maybe he was uninformed
That's correct, the only solution is to put the computer in DFU mode and reinstall firmware with Apple Configurator 2 from another Mac. DFU is Device Firmware Update.