Eyeball agony with new Air M2, even with external monitor

[ouchmyretinas]

Longtime Mac user, never had any problems til the iPhone 13 came out. The screen looked so sharp, and yet it was like I couldn't get my eyeballs to "land" on it. Always felt like I was looking a little through it, and it gave me near-immediate eye-burning forehead headaches. I went with the SE, but noticed turning off ProMotion and locking refresh really seemed to help on 13s in store.

Now, I'm getting that again with my new Air M2, hooked to a Dell Ultrasharp 2723QE. The same monitor hooked to my old '15 MBP is fine.

I saw there were other threads on this here, and I've tried it all. I've got it set to an RGB color profile. I've messed with the scaling. I've futzed with True Tone and transparency. I've installed Iris and messed with some settings htere. I've turned off the font smoothing with third party apps. And I've switched to DarkMode.

It's better than originally, but in now way comfortable for the daily use I'm planning on. I don't know how to downgrade OS but that's what I'm thinking next.

I'm also not opposed to upgrading monitors, if that would help. If I have to get the Apple Display, then I (sigh) do. I'm not made of money, but I use my computer hard. It needs to be right.

Anyone cracked this? I'm thinking it's dithering...maybe something else? I also had it with a MBP 14" hooked up to my Dell.

 

[IJBrekke]

Went through a similar struggle: eventually sold a 14” MBP and returned an M2 Air, both hurt my eyes a lot. I settled on an M1 13” MBP that is decent…still not perfect, but I can use it.

Similarly, plugging either into my Dell monitor caused some issues. Not as bad as the native laptop screen, but still there. Very frustrating.

My 2017 15” MBP is perfect - I can work on it all day long. I actually kept it around because of this, just to reassure myself that I’m not crazy (and also to have a backup machine). It seems these issues started for most of us with the M-based processors.

 

[Technerd108]

There could be numerous reasons for this but if you search through the threads here it is a pretty common issue amongst uncommon issues.

The M1 MBP, M1 MBA, M2 MBA and M2 MBP all seem to cause people problems.

I don't seem to remember hearing about this on Intel Mac's but I don't know?

Since these devices use multiple generations of IPS monitors and a new mini led IPS technology it would seem less likely that it is the screen itself. I believe that the M1 MBA doesn't support p3 color gamut so dithering should not be an issue on those. PWM values vary and I believe that the M2 MBA is the only one without any PWM. Dithering is also not present on the M2 MBA supposedly.

So that would mean that it might not be related to the screens at all. I can't imagine that Dell or HP, or many other OEM'S that source screens from China would not possibly get the same IPS panels or at least same manufacturer that Apple does yet not as many complaints from Windows or at least not as well known.

It could very well be a type of screen or manufacturer that Apple is using, it could be a technology like Dithering or PWM. Or it could be something else or a combination of both hardware and software that has changed.

I suspect that it is probably a combination of screen technology and the way the OS is displayed. Apple optimizes the software to work with the hardware so it could be a new implementation of drivers that are more efficient but use a frequency that causes some people problems.

It is really hard to say as the problem doesn't affect everyone and some people are okay with some devices and not others. However I have also seen people complain about iPhones doing the same thing and they use OLED screens.

I am probably going to say that it is a software issue or the manufacturers that Apple is using are doing something they didn't do before in making the displays.

It also could be related to m series chips as that seems to be the one major common denominator between iPhones and newer Mac's and iPads. Maybe it is the way m series graphics display and image?

In any event there are a ton of variables and without being able to test multiple devices and newer and older devices it will be near impossible to figure it out.

I think you are going to have to try different laptop displays at the Apple store or some other retailers and check for yourself before you buy in the future as that will probably be the only way to know for sure.

 

[Miat]

I have a Dell P2719H (1080, 27") monitor, and since I switched from a 2012 Mini to an M2 Air it has a sort of dullness to the colour. Looks a bit washed out, bit pastel, lacking some richness and punch, and not quite as clear/sharp as with the Mini.

Tried a few different colour profiles, and playing with the settings on the monitor itself. But doesn't seem to help much.

It isn't bad. Just looks a bit flat and lifeless compared to with the Mini.

That said, it doesn't matter so much as I don't use it for colour critical stuff. Good enough for browsing and streaming.

The Dell doesn't have a USB-C port, and is directly connected with a USBC to HDMI cable, in case that matters.

No problems with the Air screen so far, though I mostly just use the external monitor with the Air in clamshell mode, so haven't tested how well my eyes will hold up for long sessions on the Air screen.

 

[ouchmyretinas]

Appreciate everyone's thoughts. I do believe I've solved the issue, at least for myself.

First, I'm not sure I believe the "no dithering" claims on the MBA M2—not sure the testing was robust enough. Otherwise, how else are they forcing 8-bit to perform like 10-bit (on both the MBA and the monitor)? In my limited knowledge, FRC requires dithering, right?

For me it's DEF not the screen, both because this Dell monitor is fine with my older computer (which can't drive 10-bit), and bc of how I've now fixed it. (Although there is the variable that on the old computer, I use HDMI, and on this one, USB C.)

In addition to using an RGB profile and f.lux (both of which seemed to help moderately, but not enough), I used BetterMonitor to create a "dummy" of my own screen, then mirrored it to itself. This instantaneously fixes the issue for me, at least on my monitor. I have to manually set it on restart, and the screen dances away from my eyes until BAM it kicks in and then my struggle seems over. My understanding is that this turns off dithering, although there could be some other benefits.

The place I notice the most benefit is text on a white background (you know, the majority of my job). Before I mirrored the text was so clear and sharp it's like my eye couldn't choose to land on the black of the text or the white of the monitor, and jittered back and forth. Now it looks just as clear and beautiful at a glance, but if I look WAY up close, it has a tiny bit of blur around it that just feels more comfortable to my eye.

I'm just now starting to feel comfortable with the monitor so of course I'm afraid to jinx it (esp with the return window on the MBA coming up fast), but I think we're going to be okay.

My backup plans if this hadn't worked would have been to go back a few OS's and/or disable dithering via kext (hiring a computer guy, this is above my pay grade).

 

[harleymhs]

Hi, I had the same issue with Eye strain on my M2 Air. Just returned it yesterday. Wife has a M1 Air no issues. We didnt use an Ext monitor. But the M2 Screen for me had major Eye Strain. Great Post! Just ordered a M1 Loaded 1Tb 16GB .. Not sure what the issue is with me with the M2 Air Screen. But the M1 is much better for me.

 

[patrickloynd]

I am so angry. Just spent 2K on M2 Air 16GB 1TB. First Day watching Netflix at work & after 5 minutes was like "WTF" is going on? My eyes hurt and I just felt systemically unwell. Now spent hours Googling / playing with settings to no avail. Most info I found = gaslighting BS. Why are they selling this if this is "known" problem??? Is only solution to return (i already threw away box).

 

[Technerd108]

I am so angry. Just spent 2K on M2 Air 16GB 1TB. First Day watching Netflix at work & after 5 minutes was like "WTF" is going on? My eyes hurt and I just felt systemically unwell. Now spent hours Googling / playing with settings to no avail. Most info I found = gaslighting BS. Why are they selling this if this is "known" problem??? Is only solution to return (i already threw away box).

If I were you I would call Apple. Tell them what is happening and why you can't use the laptop.

I am sure they will try to work something out for you. Unfortunately I have read people complain about ALL of the new laptop screens including m1 MBP and air. Mini led seems to be even worse.

I have read people having issues with the OLED screens on iPhone and Samsung Galaxy s23. So I think it must have something to do with screen technology.

The thing is that a lot of the people that have issues can use a Windows laptop and certain Android devices which doesn't make sense to me since I image screen tech is the same across manufacturers. One person had a s23u and it caused problems but their husbands phone didn't cause a problem so it might just be individual units.

So I think you have a couple options. Try to get a replacement. See if you still have the same issue. Switch to a different device and see if you still have the same issue. Apple devices seem to be more problematic in general but it does seem to affect people across platforms and devices. I think the other option is using an older device with completely different screen technology like tn panel, something other than OLED or newer IPS. Other than that I don't know what you can do?

 

[StoneJack]

just use a pen and paper.
Problem solved

 

[G5isAlive]

I had the same problem, for me all I had to do was change the background away from that bright mess they provided. Really. I know it sounds strange but worked for me.

 

[kirky29]

For me the Galaxy Ultras give me instant headaches, thankfully I'm okay with the new M1 MacBooks. Although I live with the blue light / night shift feature on. It's the blue light that kills me.

 

[raythompsontn]

I would think in these cases a visit to an ophthalmologist would be recommend. Not just a vision person that sells glasses, but an actual surgeon that repairs eyeballs. Bring the offending laptop to the office visit and explain the symptoms. Something could be seriously wrong with the eyes causing the issues. A good ophthalmologist should be able to determine the cause and provide a solution.

 

[farmerabc]

The screen looked so sharp, and yet it was like I couldn't get my eyeballs to "land" on it. Always felt like I was looking a little through it, and it gave me near-immediate eye-burning forehead headaches.

This quite accurately describes my experience when I first bought a 4K OLED TV (coming from a 10 year old 720p LCD). I thought I would have to return the TV, but after some time my eyes adjusted, and now I can watch it without any issues.

Did you give your eyes long enough to adjust to the new screen?

 

[patrickloynd]

Appreciate everyone's thoughts. I do believe I've solved the issue, at least for myself.

First, I'm not sure I believe the "no dithering" claims on the MBA M2—not sure the testing was robust enough. Otherwise, how else are they forcing 8-bit to perform like 10-bit (on both the MBA and the monitor)? In my limited knowledge, FRC requires dithering, right?

For me it's DEF not the screen, both because this Dell monitor is fine with my older computer (which can't drive 10-bit), and bc of how I've now fixed it. (Although there is the variable that on the old computer, I use HDMI, and on this one, USB C.)

In addition to using an RGB profile and f.lux (both of which seemed to help moderately, but not enough), I used BetterMonitor to create a "dummy" of my own screen, then mirrored it to itself. This instantaneously fixes the issue for me, at least on my monitor. I have to manually set it on restart, and the screen dances away from my eyes until BAM it kicks in and then my struggle seems over. My understanding is that this turns off dithering, although there could be some other benefits.

The place I notice the most benefit is text on a white background (you know, the majority of my job). Before I mirrored the text was so clear and sharp it's like my eye couldn't choose to land on the black of the text or the white of the monitor, and jittered back and forth. Now it looks just as clear and beautiful at a glance, but if I look WAY up close, it has a tiny bit of blur around it that just feels more comfortable to my eye.

I'm just now starting to feel comfortable with the monitor so of course I'm afraid to jinx it (esp with the return window on the MBA coming up fast), but I think we're going to be okay.

My backup plans if this hadn't worked would have been to go back a few OS's and/or disable dithering via kext (hiring a computer guy, this is above my pay grade).

Hi
I googled BetterMonitor - Did you mean BetterDisplay?
And can you please walk through steps to create dummy screen? thank you.
I really like this new Air M2 - but it's ridiculous in that can't use it for one minute without feeling sick.

 

[ghanwani]

Hi, I had the same issue with Eye strain on my M2 Air. Just returned it yesterday. Wife has a M1 Air no issues. We didnt use an Ext monitor. But the M2 Screen for me had major Eye Strain. Great Post! Just ordered a M1 Loaded 1Tb 16GB .. Not sure what the issue is with me with the M2 Air Screen. But the M1 is much better for me.

Did you order M1 Air or Pro? I have trouble with the M1 Air as well (as also the M2 Air). I haven't spent much time with the Pro.

 

[Scarrus]

Sounds like something related to how the font is displayed or how the subpixels are working(OS-wise) IMO. Otherwise it doesn’t make much sense, it seems you can plug it into (any)other display and it has the same effect…

 

[Technerd108]

Sounds like something related to how the font is displayed or how the subpixels are working(OS-wise) IMO. Otherwise it doesn’t make much sense, it seems you can plug it into (any)other display and it has the same effect…

I think you might be on to something!

 

[ghanwani]

Sounds like something related to how the font is displayed or how the subpixels are working(OS-wise) IMO. Otherwise it doesn’t make much sense, it seems you can plug it into (any)other display and it has the same effect…

Definitely sounds like it and it seems specific to M processors. Intel Air was fine for me, M1 Air doesn’t work. It’s probably the same display, right?

 

[Scarrus]

Definitely sounds like it and it seems specific to M processors. Intel Air was fine for me, M1 Air doesn’t work. It’s probably the same display, right?

M1 Air is same display as last intel model, yes.

 

[raythompsontn]

It’s probably the same display, right?

Physically it is probably the same display. What may be different is how the display is refreshed, how the display refresh is scanned. Since a different CPU is being used how the display is process may be different.

Look for flicker. Spread your fingers wide, close one eye, and wave your hand back and forth rapidly across the display. That is what I generally do for stadium lights to determine if there is flicker and have to adjust my camera accordingly.

Another way to see flicker is to use an iPhone and take a video in slow motion. The camera rapidly takes images then displays the images in normal time. Flicker will show as changes in brightness on the screen. Another technique that I have used to determine flicker in stadium lights.

I see no flicker on my MBA M2 display so maybe I am blowing smoke up my own anal orifice.

 

[knight117]

Appreciate everyone's thoughts. I do believe I've solved the issue, at least for myself.

First, I'm not sure I believe the "no dithering" claims on the MBA M2—not sure the testing was robust enough. Otherwise, how else are they forcing 8-bit to perform like 10-bit (on both the MBA and the monitor)? In my limited knowledge, FRC requires dithering, right?

For me it's DEF not the screen, both because this Dell monitor is fine with my older computer (which can't drive 10-bit), and bc of how I've now fixed it. (Although there is the variable that on the old computer, I use HDMI, and on this one, USB C.)

In addition to using an RGB profile and f.lux (both of which seemed to help moderately, but not enough), I used BetterMonitor to create a "dummy" of my own screen, then mirrored it to itself. This instantaneously fixes the issue for me, at least on my monitor. I have to manually set it on restart, and the screen dances away from my eyes until BAM it kicks in and then my struggle seems over. My understanding is that this turns off dithering, although there could be some other benefits.

The place I notice the most benefit is text on a white background (you know, the majority of my job). Before I mirrored the text was so clear and sharp it's like my eye couldn't choose to land on the black of the text or the white of the monitor, and jittered back and forth. Now it looks just as clear and beautiful at a glance, but if I look WAY up close, it has a tiny bit of blur around it that just feels more comfortable to my eye.

I'm just now starting to feel comfortable with the monitor so of course I'm afraid to jinx it (esp with the return window on the MBA coming up fast), but I think we're going to be okay.

My backup plans if this hadn't worked would have been to go back a few OS's and/or disable dithering via kext (hiring a computer guy, this is above my pay grade).

The Air screen still has the dithering issue?

 

[knight117]

Went through a similar struggle: eventually sold a 14” MBP and returned an M2 Air, both hurt my eyes a lot. I settled on an M1 13” MBP that is decent…still not perfect, but I can use it.

Similarly, plugging either into my Dell monitor caused some issues. Not as bad as the native laptop screen, but still there. Very frustrating.

My 2017 15” MBP is perfect - I can work on it all day long. I actually kept it around because of this, just to reassure myself that I’m not crazy (and also to have a backup machine). It seems these issues started for most of us with the M-based processors.

The 2017 15" MBP has 119000Hz PWM below 80% brightness, may be temporal dithering on the M-based Macs is the culprit to eye strain.

 

[knight117]

Longtime Mac user, never had any problems til the iPhone 13 came out. The screen looked so sharp, and yet it was like I couldn't get my eyeballs to "land" on it. Always felt like I was looking a little through it, and it gave me near-immediate eye-burning forehead headaches. I went with the SE, but noticed turning off ProMotion and locking refresh really seemed to help on 13s in store.

Now, I'm getting that again with my new Air M2, hooked to a Dell Ultrasharp 2723QE. The same monitor hooked to my old '15 MBP is fine.

I saw there were other threads on this here, and I've tried it all. I've got it set to an RGB color profile. I've messed with the scaling. I've futzed with True Tone and transparency. I've installed Iris and messed with some settings htere. I've turned off the font smoothing with third party apps. And I've switched to DarkMode.

It's better than originally, but in now way comfortable for the daily use I'm planning on. I don't know how to downgrade OS but that's what I'm thinking next.

I'm also not opposed to upgrading monitors, if that would help. If I have to get the Apple Display, then I (sigh) do. I'm not made of money, but I use my computer hard. It needs to be right.

Anyone cracked this? I'm thinking it's dithering...maybe something else? I also had it with a MBP 14" hooked up to my Dell.

Are you using Apple iPhone SE (2022)?

 

[knight117]

Longtime Mac user, never had any problems til the iPhone 13 came out. The screen looked so sharp, and yet it was like I couldn't get my eyeballs to "land" on it. Always felt like I was looking a little through it, and it gave me near-immediate eye-burning forehead headaches. I went with the SE, but noticed turning off ProMotion and locking refresh really seemed to help on 13s in store.

Now, I'm getting that again with my new Air M2, hooked to a Dell Ultrasharp 2723QE. The same monitor hooked to my old '15 MBP is fine.

I saw there were other threads on this here, and I've tried it all. I've got it set to an RGB color profile. I've messed with the scaling. I've futzed with True Tone and transparency. I've installed Iris and messed with some settings htere. I've turned off the font smoothing with third party apps. And I've switched to DarkMode.

It's better than originally, but in now way comfortable for the daily use I'm planning on. I don't know how to downgrade OS but that's what I'm thinking next.

I'm also not opposed to upgrading monitors, if that would help. If I have to get the Apple Display, then I (sigh) do. I'm not made of money, but I use my computer hard. It needs to be right.

Anyone cracked this? I'm thinking it's dithering...maybe something else? I also had it with a MBP 14" hooked up to my Dell.

Is the 2015 15" MacBook Pro still good in 2023?

 

[Karut]

Possible breakthrough!

This tool is supposed to disable GPU dithering on Apple Silicon Macs: https://ledstrain.org/d/2686-i-disa...licon-introducing-stillcolor-macos-m1m2m3/112