FCP unbelievably show on export. Why?

[romanof]

Youtube is loaded with videos about Video production on Apple Silicon. Huge projects that are loaded, edited and exported in just minutes. And usually with a companion PC on the table to show how slow and lousy it is.

My youngsters started making their videos, then realized that a seven year old Intel with iMovie isn't the best renderer for such, so I let them use my Studio Max for a trial. It didn't exactly work as advertised on Youtube. I bought and downloaded Final Cut Pro, they loaded their video(s), about 40 minutes worth, then spent an afternoon learning the very basics of FCP. Actually, to just load and do basic edits is easy to learn, so that went ok.

Then came time to export. Their output is just a 1080p mov file, not a huge 4k movie, but it took over two hours to export (share as Apple calls it.) But even before that, it took another pair of hours to transcode and render and whatnot before it would even begin to export. Over four hours to build a 40 minute clip? And just straight video without all the effects and stuff that can be installed when you learn how to to it. I had the activity monitor cores showing and they just idled along - even the effiency cores were low. I don't understand what was happening, although without doubt the boys were doing something wrong or didn't check a needed box. All activity was on the internal drive, it has half a terabyte free and nothing else is running. Short story, never did figure it out. It was certainly not something to put on Youtube to brag about my Apple silicon.

An associate was called who came over and installed DaVinci Resolve, giving some instruction on basic editing to the youngsters, and then the project started acting properly, with the cores jammed to the top and the fan ramping up (for the first time I had ever heard it.) I didn't time it, but without doubt it exported FAR faster than before.

The problem is solved now - use DaVinci instead of FCP - except for what they gear are going to permanently use to render with, but that is another issue that is not mine. But for my curiosity, can anybody explain was was going on with FCP?

 

[R S K]

Clearly there is a lot of information missing to even dare a vaguely educated guess. Starting with FC and OS versions. Then the exact specs of the Studio. Max? Ultra? RAM? And export settings? etc. etc.

Also neither CPU, GPU nor Efficiency Cores are relevant. FC uses the Media Engines primarily (if not exclusively) for export on Apple silicon because they are exponentially faster. Trying to compare it 1:1 with Resolve is also nonsensical, since Resolve uses the M-whatever chip in a completely different way, especially when working in the timeline. And INTEL is a completely different ball-o-wax.

Either way, there is no technical or logical reason why FC should be slower than Resolve under the same conditions. Especially during editing, since Resolve still uses the painfully archaic tracks rather than FC's superior role paradigm. The only possible reason I can think of is that there's some 3rd party something installed that obviously doesn't affect Resolve in the same way, like a plugin. Other than that, there's no way to tell from a distance what it might have been out of the endless variables that can and will play into FC's (and others') performance.

Fact: FC, when not bogged down by "external forces", is the fastest or, worst case, as fast as any other NLE on the Mac market with very few and rare exceptions. So... your guess is as good as anyone's as to what the problem might have been.

And btw: I edit very complex and long projects in FC on a daily basis and to this day have not once heard my fans. Another sign as to how poorly and inefficiently Resolve uses hardware resources in comparison. BUT, if I were forced at gun point to return to a track-based editor, then it'd certainly be Resolve and not Premiere.

 

[romanof]

This wasn't an all-call for help, as is explained by my last sentence - just a wondering by a non-video guy as to the massive differences that I see between what we got and what "they" (youtube) show. Furthermore, I said I had a Studio Max, so it can be assumed to have at least 32 gb of ram, and a half terabyte of empty disk space would not be the case on a minimal drive size. Again FCP was stated to have just been downloaded, so it has to be only a few days old. i.e. up to date.

As to why Resolve was vastly faster than FCP DOES have a logical reason - Resolve was being run by a person familiar with its use, while FCP was being crudely hacked on by several video noobs who never saw it before that first trial. But, even in our noob-ness, I realized that reason for FCP being SO slow had to be that we were using it wrong.

The youngsters will figure it out in time, and I will post just where we went astray.

 

[R S K]

You might want to simply run their original iMovie project on your machine for comparison. Because iMovie is in fact the new "Final Cut Express" as it's 100% Final Cut under the hood, just missing the higher-end features. Whereby, if iMovie was sufficient, why even jump to FC let alone Resolve? 🤨 In any case, if the iMovie project performs "normally" then you know something is awry with your FC install. And it's just one simple click to send whatever you have in iMovie over to FC without any loss in translation.

 

[JustinePaula]

I find it somewhat odd that Apple has not since the BlackMagic eGPU, made any attempt at a better more modern, more advanced external "export/render" support device, so that laptops and mac pro's can be more efficient, if there was a range of eGPU for mac laptops and now fcp for ipad, that gave a "boost" in the render/export, I would buy, no question..

When you have 2K or greater media, that is an whole lot of math to process, it is a lot of 0's and 1's to change, and lots of frames, it is insane the amount of work the laptop/ipad/mac pro has to do, in order to produce some sort of media output...

A "pony" motor would help a lot.. Just running on naked built in hardware is somewhat insane..

 

[R S K]

Sorry, but you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. Never mind that an eGPU is factually SLOWER on a(n Intel) machine that already has discreet graphics (especially with FCP), but Apple Silicon utterly kicks the pants off of the most common graphics cards either way. And off of an eGPU kludge three times til Sunday. Which in the end is actually completely irrelevant anyway in this context, since FC uses the Media Engines for rendering which, in turn, are exponentially faster than any GPU, "e" or otherwise.

But yeah, if eGPUs were such an amazing solution, funny how none (incl. the BMD eGPU) are even on the market anymore, hm? So it's not just "somewhat insane" to want to hobble your machine with completely superfluous hardware for hundreds of $$.

 

[e1me5]

That's just odd. It shouldn't take that long to process and export, I have the same system and it takes it less than the runtime to export a full feature documentary with various video sources, titles, effects and all the rest. Something is wrong. What camera are you using? Maybe try the optimised media option, if it's a very strange codec with VFR it will slow the system.

I find it somewhat odd that Apple has not since the BlackMagic eGPU, made any attempt at a better more modern, more advanced external "export/render" support device, so that laptops and mac pro's can be more efficient, if there was a range of eGPU for mac laptops and now fcp for ipad, that gave a "boost" in the render/export, I would buy, no question..

When you have 2K or greater media, that is an whole lot of math to process, it is a lot of 0's and 1's to change, and lots of frames, it is insane the amount of work the laptop/ipad/mac pro has to do, in order to produce some sort of media output...

A "pony" motor would help a lot.. Just running on naked built in hardware is somewhat insane..

The eGPU project died during the transition to the Apple Silicon. Apple understood that time that their hardware offerings were very weak compared to the PCs so they introduced the eGPU to give some boost to the systems. But not anymore, apple silicon is super fast and efficient. You won't gain anything by having an external gpu, it will slow the whole system down. Just buy the appropriate hardware for your needs.

 

[R S K]

they introduced the eGPU to give some boost to the systems

Apple never introduced anything. 3rd parties developed solutions on their own. And even then, outside of possibly gaming, eGPUs offered zero gain worth the investment for anyone aside from maybe owners of Macs that only had shared memory graphics.

The "eGPU project", whatever that is, actually died WAY before the introduction of Apple Silicon, too.

 

[JustinePaula]

My post was intended to ask why is there no external something, that can make things better? eGPU was an example of a solution, good or bad, it was at least an attempt..

Apple somewhat was very loose with the 8GB RAM is better than 16GB RAM in intels statement, FCP on mac laptops with 8GB RAM is pushing the limits of technology, it is barely viable, the only reason folks do it, is cause the "better" more RAM devices are way too expensive, and maybe Apple could have rethought the M design to include a post purchase upgrade...

To export/render 4K or greater with effects, is simply a huge process to do, that is a lot of data to process, FCP7 suffered the fate of being too good for the era, it was doomed as it was a 64bit app in a 32bit system, 32bit only allowed 2GB of RAM per application, so it mattered nothing if you have 2 4 8 16 32 GB of RAM..

I know I use 16/32GB RAM on a 2006 Mac Pro running FCP7, problems still the same, regardless of 16 or 32GB RAM..

I was mearly posing a silly solution.. But really why is there no booster for underpowered devices? How many folks would benefit from device like an eGPU [not but like..]???

 

[R S K]

My post was intended to ask why is there no external something

Because it's useless and makes no sense?

the 8GB RAM is better than 16GB RAM in intels statement

HUH? What are you talking about?

a) Feel free to show me where Apple ever said that

and

b) IT FACTUALLY IS

FCP on mac laptops with 8GB RAM is pushing the limits of technology, it is barely viable

Once again, total nonsense. I only recently edited 12K footage on an M1 MacBook Air that only had 8GB of unified memory. So yeah, so much for your "limits of technology". 🙄

maybe Apple could have rethought the M design to include a post purchase upgrade

Wow. It just gets worse. Do you have any idea what an "SoC" is or what "unified memory" even means?? The whole principle behind it all??!

Maybe look it up before you go around asking something so completely off the wall.

32bit only allowed 2GB of RAM per application, so it mattered nothing if you have 2 4 8 16 32 GB of RAM

I really have to wonder who gave you the idea that you should be talking about things that you clearly do not understand the first thing about. But yeah, you shouldn't. There is just so much more that's confused, conflated, irrelevant, wholly absurd, and just plain wrong in that paragraph. Whew. Starting with the fact that 32-bit allows for 4GB of memory to be addressed. Never mind that FC7's issues reached FAR beyond just being 32bit! 🤦🏼‍♂️ I won't waste my time on the rest.

If you need a certain amount of performance, pro tip: BUY IT. Simple as that. Sorry, but "Waaaah, I want it, but I can't afford it nor do I even need it!" is not an actual argument.

But then I would just love to see you try to even saturate an M1's performance limits. Maybe share what it is you do that no Apple Silicon Mac can handle? That's sure to be entertaining.

And hey, if you can't find what you need at Apple, get any PC that does. Connect as many "accelerators" to it as you please. "Problem" solved!

 

[JustinePaula]

Really that last post was not required, I explained my thoughts, you really did not need to attack... Why did you post??

 

[R S K]

Why did you post??

You read my mind.

Pro-tip: If you can't stomach being called out on your false claims and obvious lack of knowledge on the subject, then maybe aquire the knowledge first, do at least a minimum of research beforehand, or just don't post. 🤷🏼‍♂️ Thanks.