Fed up--Am Suing Apple over MB Air Rev A

[Mactagonist]

Quite honestly, I don't believe that ANY original MBA's were capable. With a hot Merom CPU, piece of crap Intel integrated graphics, a PATA drive controller, confined space, and poor cooling system by overworked system there is NO original MBA that could possibly do what a rev B MBA can do. And that is the standard by which ALL Macs are EXPECTED to operate by. The original MBA simply couldn't perform as a "Mac."

My Rev A drove me nuts with issues. But once I put coolbook on it and gave it to my girlfriend to use those issues seem to have gone away. She uses it for basic lab stuff and web browsing (office, ChemDraw, endnote, some hulu and youtube etc) and never complains.

It was underpowered for my usage, lots of multitasking (20-100 tabs) and a few torrents in the background with video playing for example, but under less demanding usage it works.

 

[Gasu E.]

Thanks, but I've been polite each and every time I've spoken with Apple. I've also been pretty calm, until they changed their story and said I need to take it to a dealer after they had me send it in to them three times.

Even then, I was still respectful, but I did ask them to stop apologizing to me because that's getting really old. In my business, if there's a problem, I apologize but I also fix the problem.

Then again, I don't have billions in the bank. Maybe I should learn to just apologize when there's a problem but do nothing to actually fix the situation.

I don't know what your specific business is; but when you are dealing with a multi-billion dollar company, each time you interact you are dealing with a different person. Each person has a log available that MAY or may not have captured all the information you consider pertinent to your situation. It really, really help to be patient, expect to have to repeat things over and over, and to be prepared with a strategy when you want to force things to the next level.

Keep in mind also that the goal of the CS person isn't precisely to "make you happy"; it is to "close the case". He/she will be incented to close the case in the most expeditious manner possible. The first-line support guy often can "close the case" from his perspective by ordering a repair. This may be easier than "giving you a new computer" which may require all sorts of approvals.

What you want to do is call with a strategy to get the decision kicked up to a level where you can get a replacement. Here's what I would do

- call support once again

- state your problem as follows
-- Apple has repaired the computer three times in the last xx months
-- none of these repairs fixed the problem
-- at this point I must insist on a replacement-- you have wasted my time and money to the point where another repair would not be acceptable

-- only after that point should you mention the fan. IF you start out with the fan instead, the first line guy will pull out his "noisy fan script", and there is a good chance you will go down a path similar to ones you have been down before.

Only a suggestion, based on my previous experience and some understanding of how support in a billion dollar company works.

Good luck!

 

[Nicon]

...

- Widespread hardware issues with the Air (line, hinge, fans, trackpad that scratches the bezel, etc...).
...

Is this a good enough reason to demand a repair ?
I have a MBA Rev A with this issue, it's second MBA. The first one was replaced due to video shuttering.(core drop issue)

Thanx

 

[tom1971]

Yes, sue Apple, spend another couple of grand, and you will feel much better..

 

[riveting]

I have the loud fan problem as well. I called them and went to a nearby apple authorized dealer, the first time they re-applied the thermal compound, it gets a bit better but fan still crank high quite a bit. The second time I called, they send me to another apple authorized dealer, and they run their testing program and told me nothing is wrong with it. In the end, I just bought the coolbook and use a software program to limit the fan to 4000 rpm, and it seems to work fine although not perfect.

I am not very happy with apple product

 

[slapguts]

Mine lately has been doing this as well. I either have kernal_task spikes, or run Coolbook, and the fans never drop back down once they reach 6200. I'm using my Air in an air-conditioned room on a glass top table.

Maybe I'll mention these when I bring it in for it's floppy hinge.

 

[ski2moro]

Script for your conversation with Apple

In the first place, you may not even have a valid case in small claims court. Check out the requirements in your particular jurisdiction to see if your case has merit.

I think that you should begin by deciding what would make you happy. Is it a brand new Air or do you want your same computer to work as designed?

Decision made, then go for it. Build your case to achieve the desired outcome.

Call one last time. Tell them:

I have this product.
I have had this problem.
I have called on this date and time.
I have sent it in or taken it to a store or whatever.
I have spent X amount of time.
I have been told this on this date and this on this date and this...
It is still defective.

So you say to the Applecare Rep. "I want to escalate this to the appropriate level."

(DO NOT threaten lawsuit. They know you won't or can't. Their stock answer is, "You need to do what you think is right." and your chances of having it replaced is exactly ZERO.)

Instead, engage Apple. "What can WE do to make this right, because right now, 1. this computer has an ongoing problem and 2. I am not happy."

DO NOT say anything like what are YOU going to do about this? You need to work as a team to get you to the appropriate person who is going to make you happy.

Tell them that you have been reasonable and that you have tried to do everything they said in the past, but you are not happy.

Continue to be reasonable. Ask, "How long do you think is reasonable for me to have to wait for this computer to be repaired? I think I have waited long enough." Then shut up and wait for their answer.

If they ask what will make you happy, tell them that you want a new, current revision Air to replace it.

If they tell you to send it back again, tell them that you will, with the understanding that in the event that the problem persists when the computer is returned, you want to have the computer replaced with a brand new one.

They are entitled to one last chance, don't you think?

Let us know what happens.

 

[Sun Baked]

Yes, sue Apple, spend another couple of grand, and you will feel much better..

Go in ranting and raving into an Apple Store about it, and you might get a pair of shiny silver bracelets and a free car ride.

 

[BrianKonarsMac]

In one hand I understand that you should have a working machine. On the other, you deserve what happened. You bought a refurbished machine, obviously it had issues. Thats why it was refurbished in the first place. If you wanted a perfect machine you would have bought a new one. Hope you learned your lesson.

It would appear your parents lacked the capability to teach you decent communication & general people skills. Or you lacked the capability to remember and/or apply them.

My suggestion would be to stay indoors, behind a computer, where you're safe. That attitude in the real world won't be of much help to you.

@OP: I'd too like to chime in with a suggestion to write Mr. Jobs. It's a last resort in my mind, but you sound like you've been through the wringer on this one.

I'm also a fan of ski2moro's approach.

 

[zedsdead]

Is this a good enough reason to demand a repair ?
I have a MBA Rev A with this issue, it's second MBA. The first one was replaced due to video shuttering.(core drop issue)

Thanx

Yes. If every-time you closed your car door the window scratched, would that be acceptable?

 

[daflake]

ski2moro gives sound advice! I would listen to him/her.

 

[synth3tik]

I second ski2moro's reply. Sound advice for sure.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I second ski2moro's reply. Sound advice for sure.

I agree.

 

[three]

I feel your pain with the MacBook Air Revision A, I personally have one myself and I am about this close to selling it for a 13" MacBook Pro. I've almost thrown my MacBook Air a couple times due to the annoying 6200 RPM fan that you can only fix by shutting the lid and waiting. I love the MacBook Air, but the Revision A is just poor.

 

[Scottsdale]

Because you are comparing two different versions... If you do that to anything the newer one will always (most of the time) look better. The air was cutting edge when it came out. My wife wanted it for portability, e-mail and word processing with the occasional video being watched. If you bought that laptop thinking that it was going to be a gaming rig (during the revision A run) you were fooling yourself and I even told her that. It is also the reason that I bought a regular Macbook. Hers runs great and she loves it. Video does not skip as some have reported and even with SL it is a nice little laptop. Sorry, ours is great.

A gaming rig? WTF? I don't think you understand the TRUE EXPECTATIONS of someone paying $1799 to $3099 for a computer that Apple declared a MAC. It did NOT perform to the normal EXPECTATIONS of a Mac. It was a poor performer, an overheated, problematic, too confined, piece of garbage that couldn't do "normal" computing tasks ANY Mac user would define as "Mac-like."

I think you're a little off base on your analysis of me and what ANYONE would expect from the MBA when it was first introduced. It was essentially sold as MacBook like performance from a thin and lightweight computer that is built for the "business Pro." If Apple would have said from the beginning that this MBA might be lightweight and thin but would not live up to the NORMAL expectations of Mac users as it would not do X, Y, or Z, then customers wouldn't have expected it to work like their previous Macs. However, it was implied that the MBA was a REAL Mac that would perform within a normal range any Mac user could expect.

It's NOT NORMAL for a Mac to experience core shutdowns, massive overheating, lockups, and etc for a two minute non-HD video clip. That's only touching the surface of the real problems. It demanded too much power with those components, and within the confined space of the MBA it could NOT perform like ANY Mac user would expect. THAT'S A PROBLEM!

Some people don't want to admit it, or are too big of fanboys bash Apple or Steve Jobs, but Apple deserves every bit of lashing original MBA buyers can dish out. Bottom line was the original MBA was a novelty NOT capable of what a "normal" Mac user would expect when spending so much money. For anyone who paid $999 to $1299 it's a completely DIFFERENT story. The buyers who paid $999 to $1299 were NOT the intended market... that's obvious. And Apple dumped the original MBAs as they couldn't perform up to the expectations of a normal Mac user let alone someone in the niche area of an ultraportable for business "pros." The problem is that Apple did not take care of its customers. It had spent money developing the MBA, and knew it was too problematic for the price and market it intended to sell the MBAs to; so Apple just sold as many as it could until the niche buyers caught on to the problems with the original MBA, then Apple dropped the price and dumped the rest.

The original MBA has cost Apple a fortune in lost goodwill with its deceptive marketing and failure to disclose the problems of the original MBA. I for one will never forget how many people I knew that had problems and did nothing but complain and then dump their original MBAs. It simply couldn't meet the market buyers expectations. It wasn't a Mac and didn't deserve the Apple logo. Apple could have learned its lesson and replaced EVERY original MBA with a rev B that actually worked, but Apple instead has damaged its reputation for a certain group of niche buyers. Apple realizes now how bad the original MBA was, because it had to drastically lower the price to even sell the much more capable v 2,1 MBAs.

It's just too bad that Apple didn't treat the original MBA as a sunk cost and wait for the components to catch up with the form factor Apple had designed for the MBA.

Going back to your initial statement, this is a long way from expecting the MBA to be a "gaming rig." It's a far different story, and I believe that a few people could accept the problems with the MBA if their use was so very limited as to not see the problems. The biggest problem with that is that the original MBA performed no different from a netbook for those who just needed to check their email... I am not calling the original MBA a netbook. It had a beautiful display and worthy keyboard for a writer typing on it. It's just that the C2D and other components were of no advantage because they caused serious overheating.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Apple in a huge lawsuit over the original MBA, and I am a shareholder too. I just believe Apple should realize when it has done wrong and FIX the situation for all who were originally duped by Apple and Jobs over the original MBA. It would have been an easy fix. Replace all original MBAs with a rev B; sell all the originals traded in for $999 as a "MacBook Lite," and advertised it as a great Mac for typing a Pages document or email.

Too bad that Apple has given the MBA a bad reputation as an incapable Mac, because the v 2,1 MBAs have been really nice Macs that perform like Macs should... for the most part.

 

[Maks]

The original MBA has cost Apple a fortune in lost goodwill with its deceptive marketing and failure to disclose the problems of the original MBA. I for one will never forget how many people I knew that had problems and did nothing but complain and then dump their original MBAs.

Yet you purchased 2 more MBAs anyhow.

 

[caonimadebi]

A gaming rig? WTF? I don't think you understand the TRUE EXPECTATIONS of someone paying $1799 to $3099 for a computer that Apple declared a MAC. It did NOT perform to the normal EXPECTATIONS of a Mac. It was a poor performer, an overheated, problematic, too confined, piece of garbage that couldn't do "normal" computing tasks ANY Mac user would define as "Mac-like."

I think you're a little off base on your analysis of me and what ANYONE would expect from the MBA when it was first introduced. It was essentially sold as MacBook like performance from a thin and lightweight computer that is built for the "business Pro." If Apple would have said from the beginning that this MBA might be lightweight and thin but would not live up to the NORMAL expectations of Mac users as it would not do X, Y, or Z, then customers wouldn't have expected it to work like their previous Macs. However, it was implied that the MBA was a REAL Mac that would perform within a normal range any Mac user could expect.

It's NOT NORMAL for a Mac to experience core shutdowns, massive overheating, lockups, and etc for a two minute non-HD video clip. That's only touching the surface of the real problems. It demanded too much power with those components, and within the confined space of the MBA it could NOT perform like ANY Mac user would expect. THAT'S A PROBLEM!
...

The same qualities (such as throttling, overheating and locking up) that disqualified the original MBA as a "true Mac", are still present on the current iteration of the MBA, to a large extent. Just because it didn't meet your specific needs, the original MBA shouldn't be discounted as a "piece of junk". The current iteration of the MBA still overheats and has a serious performance handicap, but if it meets your expectation of what you can get out of a 3lb-light computer, it is a machine that is worthy of your evangelizing. The original MBA, I'm sure, was more than satisfactory to many people and was not a piece of junk like you said.

 

[slapguts]

In the first place...(snip)
Let us know what happens.

GREAT post.

 

[buddhahacker]

Simple Solution

I would suggest that you call Apple's corporate office and either ask for the ombudsman or Steve Jobs. If the later occurs you will most certainly not be passed to Steve but to one of his assistants. You CALMLY explain the issue you have and the actions taken by Apple to that point. Have you dates, times and trouble ticket numbers available. Explain that you have spent an inordinate time working on their issue and that it is still not resolved. Also, inform the assistant that an Apple employee, provide name, who stated that they would replace your Air should the issue not be resolved. Ask the assistant for what the plan of action is to resolve the issue. Be reasonable, and allow the assistant a day or two to research. Make certain you get their personal contact information and a commitment on when they would be contact you directly.

I have taken this approach many times in the past for personal and business reasons and it nearly always works. Remember, the first person to loose their cool during an argument loses the battle.

Good luck.

 

[ntrigue]

Accurately list your down-time and provide two explicit times your workflow was affected. Put this in the letter/email.

 

[Durious]

A gaming rig? WTF? I don't think you understand the TRUE EXPECTATIONS of someone paying $1799 to $3099 for a computer that Apple declared a MAC. It did NOT perform to the normal EXPECTATIONS of a Mac. It was a poor performer, an overheated, problematic, too confined, piece of garbage that couldn't do "normal" computing tasks ANY Mac user would define as "Mac-like."

I think you're a little off base on your analysis of me and what ANYONE would expect from the MBA when it was first introduced. It was essentially sold as MacBook like performance from a thin and lightweight computer that is built for the "business Pro." If Apple would have said from the beginning that this MBA might be lightweight and thin but would not live up to the NORMAL expectations of Mac users as it would not do X, Y, or Z, then customers wouldn't have expected it to work like their previous Macs. However, it was implied that the MBA was a REAL Mac that would perform within a normal range any Mac user could expect.

It's NOT NORMAL for a Mac to experience core shutdowns, massive overheating, lockups, and etc for a two minute non-HD video clip. That's only touching the surface of the real problems. It demanded too much power with those components, and within the confined space of the MBA it could NOT perform like ANY Mac user would expect. THAT'S A PROBLEM!

Some people don't want to admit it, or are too big of fanboys bash Apple or Steve Jobs, but Apple deserves every bit of lashing original MBA buyers can dish out. Bottom line was the original MBA was a novelty NOT capable of what a "normal" Mac user would expect when spending so much money. For anyone who paid $999 to $1299 it's a completely DIFFERENT story. The buyers who paid $999 to $1299 were NOT the intended market... that's obvious. And Apple dumped the original MBAs as they couldn't perform up to the expectations of a normal Mac user let alone someone in the niche area of an ultraportable for business "pros." The problem is that Apple did not take care of its customers. It had spent money developing the MBA, and knew it was too problematic for the price and market it intended to sell the MBAs to; so Apple just sold as many as it could until the niche buyers caught on to the problems with the original MBA, then Apple dropped the price and dumped the rest.

The original MBA has cost Apple a fortune in lost goodwill with its deceptive marketing and failure to disclose the problems of the original MBA. I for one will never forget how many people I knew that had problems and did nothing but complain and then dump their original MBAs. It simply couldn't meet the market buyers expectations. It wasn't a Mac and didn't deserve the Apple logo. Apple could have learned its lesson and replaced EVERY original MBA with a rev B that actually worked, but Apple instead has damaged its reputation for a certain group of niche buyers. Apple realizes now how bad the original MBA was, because it had to drastically lower the price to even sell the much more capable v 2,1 MBAs.

It's just too bad that Apple didn't treat the original MBA as a sunk cost and wait for the components to catch up with the form factor Apple had designed for the MBA.

Going back to your initial statement, this is a long way from expecting the MBA to be a "gaming rig." It's a far different story, and I believe that a few people could accept the problems with the MBA if their use was so very limited as to not see the problems. The biggest problem with that is that the original MBA performed no different from a netbook for those who just needed to check their email... I am not calling the original MBA a netbook. It had a beautiful display and worthy keyboard for a writer typing on it. It's just that the C2D and other components were of no advantage because they caused serious overheating.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see Apple in a huge lawsuit over the original MBA, and I am a shareholder too. I just believe Apple should realize when it has done wrong and FIX the situation for all who were originally duped by Apple and Jobs over the original MBA. It would have been an easy fix. Replace all original MBAs with a rev B; sell all the originals traded in for $999 as a "MacBook Lite," and advertised it as a great Mac for typing a Pages document or email.

Too bad that Apple has given the MBA a bad reputation as an incapable Mac, because the v 2,1 MBAs have been really nice Macs that perform like Macs should... for the most part.

I'm using the Rev C which is fantastic in every way but my wife is using a Rev A and it's pretty bad. Core shutdowns during non-hd video are frustrating for her. Essentially the first time around is a paper weight and should be regarded as such. Good luck to your pursuits OP!

 

[chrono1081]

Suing isn't going to do much.

First, not to play devils advocate but working many years in IT I can tell you this:

If the technician can't reproduce the problem there is nothing they can do to fix it. I hear it time and time again from users about something being wrong with their computers but when I get it, I can't duplicate the problem.

When you send it in are you telling them the following info:

-What programs are you running when the fans kick in.
-How long after startup till the fans kick in.
-Do they stay on constantly or intermittently?
-What type of surface is the computer on when the fans kick in.
-Does the problem happen for all users? Or just under your user account?

This is vital information for the technicians so they can have the greatest success trying to reproduce the problem.

Another thing to do would be to bring the computer to an Apple store while its having its problem and show a technician there. Also always be extremely polite. Polite people get much more help then rude or nasty people trust me.

 

[prmccarron]

After wasting hours of dealing with Apple for the past 9 months, I feel I have no other recourse but to take them to small claims court. Any advice you have would be much appreciated.

Bad idea. I hate to go against you, because I would feel the same way, but suing them would lead to you loosing money. Apple has money, good lawyers, and power, so although I too would really want to in that situation, I would advise against court.
It seems impossible to be patient with Apple Genius' and Apple Care workers, but it is the easiest way out.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

What are you suing for? You can't just go and say "I'm suing you" without saying how the other party broke a law. Apple hasn't broken any laws, it's just your impatience and probably lots of exaggeration.

 

[daflake]

A gaming rig? WTF? I don't think you understand the TRUE EXPECTATIONS of someone paying $1799 to $3099 for a computer that Apple declared a MAC. It did NOT perform to the normal EXPECTATIONS of a Mac. It was a poor performer, an overheated, problematic, too confined, piece of garbage that couldn't do "normal" computing tasks ANY Mac user would define as "Mac-like."

I think you're a little off base on your analysis of me and what ANYONE would expect from the MBA when it was first introduced. YADA YADA ETC...

First, your rant was too long and I'm not going to bother to even read it all.

I do understand the expectations and I have even seen the gaming question posted here. As I said, we have not had any of those problems with this laptop at all. Does it heat up? Sure, but it does cool back down over time but that is what computers do. This is a machine that is stuffed into a slim profile and I had no illusions about what it would or wouldn't be able to handle going into it. Sorry, but I think you are asking too much out of a computer that was designed to do executive like work. Sounds to me like you should have bought a Pro instead.