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eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,638
28,412
This is one of the reasons I jailbreak.

I used to use iFile (on the device), but their license servers stopped working so I've been using Fileza. The ability to dump something to Dropbox and then just use Fileza on the device to grab it and move it is key.

My wife's iPhone is jailbroken for this exact reason as well. Trying to get her to get a handle on iTunes just isn't going to happen. So, it's easier to move stuff this way to get whatever she needs on her phone.

I can see Apple's position, especially when it comes to certain people. I wouldn't want my mother being able to browse her file system on her iPhone 4. The calls I would get!

But there has to be a better way than iTunes. Not everyone keeps computers anymore.
 

raylo32

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 9, 2018
303
154
Yes, I would have gone back to Android this time (I hadn't had a personal phone for awhile) except it was easier to just transfer my apps and such from my work iPhone to a new personal iPhone. Plus Androids, as good as they are, are more work precisely because you can do so much more with them. I am not in the mode right now to need my phone to be my hobby... which can be fun if you are so inclined. But damn, I do miss some of the basic functionality that Apple omits for no apparent reason.

I think that is probably what bothers me most about diehard apple fanboys. Lets be honest, both sides have them...

Apple fans try to defend 4 year old tech and pretend it is innovative and that the lack of common everyday features is somehow a good thing...

And Android fans fail to realize that despite that, if the Apple fans are happy with what they have, to just leave them alone and not try to convert them...

I have always used both. Apple has the best tablets and watch, while Android clearly has the edge on phones.

If Android had a watch that was truly comparable to the Apple Watch, I would have stayed with Android for the phone, and keep using my iPad Pro for my tablet... BUt Android doesn't have a watch that good... so my decision was to get another iPhone.

My logic is that while it does lack things, it is "good enough", and allows me to have the better watch.

True fanboys, I don't think see things that way... they are all about MY TEAM and they won't even consider the facts...
 

zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,931
3,681
Apple doesn’t need to give us access to any system files at all. Just a standardized, central location where we can store files. With a standard plug in for 3rd party cloud storage apps to use the same interface. So that we could have a file view, just like in the Finder on the Mac, where we can locate, rearrange, open, manage, our files whether they reside in iCloud, Dropbox, OneDrive, whatever interface you choose.

Right now each cloud service is completely sandboxed. You have to use their app, which all have slightly different ways of interacting with your files, different features, and so on. There is no ONE location to see everything you have. Often poorly designed apps will open a file from one of these services, but then keep that file as a new copy inside the sandbox of that one app. It’s an utter mess, and it greatly complicates things when Apple, and especially iOS, is supposed to be simplifying things.
 

SquireSCA

Suspended
Dec 5, 2008
346
764
Atlanta, GA
Yeah, both sides. I've been an Android user since day one, owning a lot of devices, many of which I rooted and installed custom ROMs on. The Air 2 was my first iOS device, followed by my current 10.5 I still have an Android phone but I don't see ever getting another Android tablet (I still have my 8" Galaxy Tab S2 which I rarely use). The iOS shortcomings discussed here initially drove me nuts but I've learned to live with them, using uSD & SD card readers, SMB connections, and wireless FileHubs. I'd like to see Apple open things up but I frankly don't see that happening.

I have had plenty of both... iPhone 3, 3G, 6+, 8+, XR, iPad Mini, iPad Air 2, iPad Pro 12.9", etc... Had a ton of Android devices from HTC, Samsung, Google, LG, Motorola, OnePlus, Essential, etc... I lean more towards Android because they are far more forward thinking and cutting edge. Apple is designed for people like my mom who just need a toaster... a device just designed to do a few things and that's it...

But Apple makes good hardware and iOS, while still lacking in many areas, has gotten a lot better and it's "good enough" for me most of the time, despite some annoyances...
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
this is why i'm swaying towards buying a dell x?? 13.3 laptop instead of a mac next year january. apple has become regulated and "communist" on how we can use OUR products. I had too many problems transferring and organizing files between the ipad, macmini and mac bookair this morning that impeded my cartooning and humor. itunes is garbage as well, i learned that the higher the version number, the more problems!
 

raylo32

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 9, 2018
303
154
Another example of this nonsense... I have a non tech savvy coworker who has 7Plus work phone. He is going to get a refurb 7Plus for a personal phone before he retires and needs to transfer stuff to it. Basically alls he has is contacts and photos, all of which he wants to carry around on the new phone, but he has maxed out his iCloud storage so not all of his photos are backed up there. If we could simply copy the photos off to a PC (OK we can do that part) and load them on the new phone later via USB (oops, can't do that@!!!) he could (well I could help him) do a restore from iCloud for the other stuff. He has no clue how to use iTunes and we don't have that on our work PCs anyway so he will have to rely on tech support to handle all this. So much for Apple making things simple.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,996
34,306
Seattle WA
this is why i'm swaying towards buying a dell x?? 13.3 laptop instead of a mac next year january. apple has become regulated and "communist" on how we can use OUR products. I had too many problems transferring and organizing files between the ipad, macmini and mac bookair this morning that impeded my cartooning and humor. itunes is garbage as well, i learned that the higher the version number, the more problems!

I've been using a Dell XPS 13 9350 with QHD+ display for a couple of years now - great machine. I've used different Mac devices since the Apple II in the late 70's but have never felt inclined to own one.
 

raylo32

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 9, 2018
303
154
Indeed, for computers I am fully in the Windows world. Besides the phone alls the Apple I have is an iPad Mini I got for the bluetooth LE for bicycle workout app TrainerRoad. When I got it the Android tabs did have BT LE.

this is why i'm swaying towards buying a dell x?? 13.3 laptop instead of a mac next year january. apple has become regulated and "communist" on how we can use OUR products. I had too many problems transferring and organizing files between the ipad, macmini and mac bookair this morning that impeded my cartooning and humor. itunes is garbage as well, i learned that the higher the version number, the more problems!
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
I've been using a Dell XPS 13 9350 with QHD+ display for a couple of years now - great machine. I've used different Mac devices since the Apple II in the late 70's but have never felt inclined to own one.
thanks for the reply, im not looking forward to putting all my apple stuff in boxes after countless annoyances im eager to use windows. this is mind boggling because everything apple was so smooth and worked back in May2017.
 
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1144557

Cancelled
Sep 13, 2018
925
2,413
No one is arguing a real file system or drag/drop is easier.

But for a PDF: Drag PDF into icloud drive folder on your PC having installed the icloud for windows app (it also syncs your photos). I assume it works the same/better on Mac. Open files app on your phone it is there in seconds to open in whatever PDF app you want.

For photos if icloud is full download on of many free PC apps like iMyFone etc. that allow easy file movement.

While you shouldn't have to work around your device the alternatives are fairly easy to just use. No one should be using itunes anymore to try to get stuff on and off their phone.
 

raylo32

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 9, 2018
303
154
And no one is saying that there aren't options, but that they all far less convenient for *some* tasks than the drag and drop or cut and paste alternative that I have yet to see a minimally valid argument for not having as an option in iOS. It wouldn't detract from anything else, except for Apple's ability to charge for additional iCloud space. And I am not terribly keen on keeping a lot of PII on the cloud, nor am I keen on paying Apple for iCloud space when I have 5TB free at home on PCs and network drives.

What about something like this:

https://www.easeus.com/iphone-data-transfer/transfer-files-to-ipad-iphone.html


I have used their hard disk partition manager in the past and it worked well with no issues.



No one is arguing a real file system or drag/drop is easier.

But for a PDF: Drag PDF into icloud drive folder on your PC having installed the icloud for windows app (it also syncs your photos). I assume it works the same/better on Mac. Open files app on your phone it is there in seconds to open in whatever PDF app you want.

For photos if icloud is full download on of many free PC apps like iMyFone etc. that allow easy file movement.

While you shouldn't have to work around your device the alternatives are fairly easy to just use. No one should be using itunes anymore to try to get stuff on and off their phone.
[doublepost=1542828827][/doublepost]
 
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sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,996
34,306
Seattle WA
And no one is saying that there aren't options, but that they all far less convenient for *some* tasks than the drag and drop or cut and paste alternative that I have yet to see a minimally valid argument for not having as an option in iOS. It wouldn't detract from anything else, except for Apple's ability to charge for additional iCloud space. And I am not terribly keen on keeping a lot of PII on the cloud, nor am I keen on paying Apple for iCloud space when I have 5TB free at home on PCs and network drives.

What about something like this:

https://www.easeus.com/iphone-data-transfer/transfer-files-to-ipad-iphone.html


I have used their hard disk partition manager in the past and it worked well with no issues.




[doublepost=1542828827][/doublepost]

The Easus app only works with a subset of file types stored within Apple stock apps. It's very limited and not very fast at that.

I'm retired now but as a S/W Systems Engineer my experience goes back to 1971 and since then I have worked with almost every OS imaginable and developed a few in between. Some aspects of iOS remind me of IBM JCL - anything was possible but it might take you 20 steps to accomplish what in another OS was a single command. On the one hand, iOS is very advanced but in other areas it feels downright primitive.
 
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lexvo

macrumors 65816
Nov 11, 2009
1,477
557
The Netherlands
I use my NAS which is accessible from internet. When I put a file on my NAS I can access it from all my devices (iMac, iPad, iPhone). So I only have to store it on one place. Of course I can also just copy a file from say my iMac to my iPhone via the NAS.

For this I am using FileBrowser for iOS and Finder on the iMac. For me, this is all I need.
 

sean000

macrumors 68000
Jul 16, 2015
1,628
2,346
Bellingham, WA
I’m not saying I wouldn’t welcome a better centralized file storage app, lightning to USB storage options or (gasp) a micro SD slot, but it’s 2018. Files should generally live in the cloud. Dropbox, Onedrive, Google Drive, icloud, or a combination of your favorite cloud locations. One to few locations, in the cloud, accessible from any device or operating system. I work in an Office 365 environment, so I mostly use Onedrive. The experience is remarkably consistent whether I’m using one of my iOS devices, my Windows PC, or my Chromebook. I can use a borrowed device and access all my stuff.

If using cloud storage is too slow, it’s time to reconsider your internet service provider or cellular data provider. Unless you’re stuck using an old WiFi router connected to high latency satellite internet, there should be no significant waiting for files to sync, download, or upload. If you have limited cellular data I could see the desire to use old school manual data transfer methods, but I have the least expensive data plan AT&T offers. The only time I get close to using my maximum monthly data is when I stream too much music or podcasts over cellular during my commute. When I get close (which happens maybe one or two months a year) I just download the podcasts using Overcast (or some music using Google Play... where all my personally owned CD’s live in the cloud) while I’m still on WiFi. Now that I have a 256 GB iPhone I could store more on the device, but I don’t see the point. Then it becomes another place for my files to hide and possibly end up out of sync.

Of course all this depends much on the type of data you are talking about. You do mention some large files like movies, but how often do those need to be transferred? I guess I never watch entire movies on my iOS devices unless I’m streaming them over Netflix. Even that is rare. Only video I store is shot with my iPhone and synced to my other devices (including my windows PC) with iCloud. Photos and PDFs can be rather large as well. I’m a photographer and I will say that I’m not totally thrilled with iCloud photo sharing. Smugmug is my main cloud storage for photos, and it lets me upload from iOS and view photos as well. iCloud has become a separate photo storage location though, and it’s kind of annoying... so I get what you are saying. Apple’s approach requires you to treat different types of data different way, rather than having a big folder full of your stuff. Apple knows they have created a mess, otherwise they wouldn’t have released iCloud Drive and the Files app (which is a nice addition, but no replacement for my Onedrive). Using something like Dropbox (or storage from Google or Microsoft) isn’t a perfect solution, but in my opinion it greatly simplifies accessing the same files from multiple devices.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,996
34,306
Seattle WA
I’m not saying I wouldn’t welcome a better centralized file storage app, lightning to USB storage options or (gasp) a micro SD slot, but it’s 2018. Files should generally live in the cloud. Dropbox, Onedrive, Google Drive, icloud, or a combination of your favorite cloud locations. One to few locations, in the cloud, accessible from any device or operating system. I work in an Office 365 environment, so I mostly use Onedrive. The experience is remarkably consistent whether I’m using one of my iOS devices, my Windows PC, or my Chromebook. I can use a borrowed device and access all my stuff.

If using cloud storage is too slow, it’s time to reconsider your internet service provider or cellular data provider. Unless you’re stuck using an old WiFi router connected to high latency satellite internet, there should be no significant waiting for files to sync, download, or upload. If you have limited cellular data I could see the desire to use old school manual data transfer methods, but I have the least expensive data plan AT&T offers. The only time I get close to using my maximum monthly data is when I stream too much music or podcasts over cellular during my commute. When I get close (which happens maybe one or two months a year) I just download the podcasts using Overcast (or some music using Google Play... where all my personally owned CD’s live in the cloud) while I’m still on WiFi. Now that I have a 256 GB iPhone I could store more on the device, but I don’t see the point. Then it becomes another place for my files to hide and possibly end up out of sync.

Of course all this depends much on the type of data you are talking about. You do mention some large files like movies, but how often do those need to be transferred? I guess I never watch entire movies on my iOS devices unless I’m streaming them over Netflix. Even that is rare. Only video I store is shot with my iPhone and synced to my other devices (including my windows PC) with iCloud. Photos and PDFs can be rather large as well. I’m a photographer and I will say that I’m not totally thrilled with iCloud photo sharing. Smugmug is my main cloud storage for photos, and it lets me upload from iOS and view photos as well. iCloud has become a separate photo storage location though, and it’s kind of annoying... so I get what you are saying. Apple’s approach requires you to treat different types of data different way, rather than having a big folder full of your stuff. Apple knows they have created a mess, otherwise they wouldn’t have released iCloud Drive and the Files app (which is a nice addition, but no replacement for my Onedrive). Using something like Dropbox (or storage from Google or Microsoft) isn’t a perfect solution, but in my opinion it greatly simplifies accessing the same files from multiple devices.

My difficulty is not with a personal Internet provider but rather a lot of travel to locations where service is poor or totally unavailable (recent: northern Alaska; Selkirk region of SE British Columbia, Wash., Idaho; Ecuador; a ship in the Pacific; hotels with poor service throughout the US). When you cannot assure Internet access, cloud storage fails. (I'm not talking about a day or two of poor to no access, I'm talking weeks.)
 

sean000

macrumors 68000
Jul 16, 2015
1,628
2,346
Bellingham, WA
My difficulty is not with a personal Internet provider but rather a lot of travel to locations where service is poor or totally unavailable (recent: northern Alaska; Selkirk region of SE British Columbia, Wash., Idaho; Ecuador; a ship in the Pacific; hotels with poor service throughout the US). When you cannot assure Internet access, cloud storage fails. (I'm not talking about a day or two of poor to no access, I'm talking weeks.)

Cloud storage wouldn’t be a good solution for you then, but the vast majority of us are rarely, if ever, out of range of high speed connection... which is both kind of awesome and kind of sad at the same time. The only time I’m out of range would be short periods of time when I wouldn’t need it anyway (hiking, mountain biking, and camping).
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,996
34,306
Seattle WA
Cloud storage wouldn’t be a good solution for you then, but the vast majority of us are rarely, if ever, out of range of high speed connection... which is both kind of awesome and kind of sad at the same time. The only time I’m out of range would be short periods of time when I wouldn’t need it anyway (hiking, mountain biking, and camping).

But I also feel that the storage and access of your data should not have to be a recurring expense (being retired now, my views on recurring expenses have "evolved"). I do believe in off-line backups but I do not want to use the cloud for everyday storage and access.
 
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sean000

macrumors 68000
Jul 16, 2015
1,628
2,346
Bellingham, WA
But I also feel that the storage and access of your data should not have to be a recurring expense (being retired now, my views on recurring expenses have "evolved"). I do believe in off-line backups but I do not want to use the cloud for everyday storage and access.

I think of it as a matter of convenience that is worth paying for. I do have multiple external drives that store offsite backups of my most important data (mostly family photos and videos), but they are only for backup. The cloud excels at providing convenient accessibility from any device and sharing (as long as you and those you share with have an internet connection), and many offer version control as well. The only cloud storage I currently pay for is iCloud and Smugmug. I use OneDrive for work, but my employer pays for the terabyte of storage I have there. iCloud is cheap. Smugmug costs more for my service level, but as an avid photographer it’s worth it to me.

If I found myself frequently without internet, and mostly working from a single device and location, the cloud wouldn’t offer me much. However I regularly use five devices from multiple locations and it’s very nice to be able to access my data from any of them without ever needing to sync or copy.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,996
34,306
Seattle WA
I think of it as a matter of convenience that is worth paying for. I do have multiple external drives that store offsite backups of my most important data (mostly family photos and videos), but they are only for backup. The cloud excels at providing convenient accessibility from any device and sharing (as long as you and those you share with have an internet connection), and many offer version control as well. The only cloud storage I currently pay for is iCloud and Smugmug. I use OneDrive for work, but my employer pays for the terabyte of storage I have there. iCloud is cheap. Smugmug costs more for my service level, but as an avid photographer it’s worth it to me.

If I found myself frequently without internet, and mostly working from a single device and location, the cloud wouldn’t offer me much. However I regularly use five devices from multiple locations and it’s very nice to be able to access my data from any of them without ever needing to sync or copy.

It's why I feel that there should be another option to cloud storage but Apple chooses not to. Perhaps because of the revenue they make from cloud services. At any rate, this is a big reason that my iPad will not be a replacement for my laptop.
 
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Momof9

macrumors 6502
Aug 22, 2018
499
193
When I set up my new 1TB iPad Pro, I used itunes on my daughter’s laptop with an external drive connected to it. I transferred all 300GB to FileExplorer app. I have everything in different folders - some multi folder deep.... All different kinds of folders as well....
 

Altis

macrumors 68040
Sep 10, 2013
3,167
4,898
As far as photos and videos go, you can use Photos on osx to import them from devices.

Is this really the only way? Used to be able to browse to the folder and view/cut/copy photos and videos from the desktop (Mac and Windows). Can't seem to anymore.

The arbitrary limitations are becoming too common to overlook, these days.
 

foliovision

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2008
211
111
Bratislava
it’s 2018. Files should generally live in the cloud. Dropbox, Onedrive, Google Drive, icloud, or a combination of your favorite cloud locations. One to few locations, in the cloud, accessible from any device or operating system. I work in an Office 365 environment, so I mostly use Onedrive.

What a ridiculous, anti-security point of view. There is absolutely no reason my files should live in the cloud. They are my personal files and I will keep them off the cloud thank you very much. A better iOS file browser would be more than welcome.

As you are the kind of person who trusts Microsoft with access to your files, and to run his or her life on Office 365, so your credibility is shot out of the gate.
 
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sean000

macrumors 68000
Jul 16, 2015
1,628
2,346
Bellingham, WA
What a ridiculous, anti-security point of view. There is absolutely no reason my files should live in the cloud. They are my personal files and I will keep them off the cloud thank you very much. A better iOS file browser would be more than welcome.

As you are the kind of person who trusts Microsoft with access to your files, and to run his or her life on Office 365, so your credibility is shot out of the gate.

Please point me to your evidence that I should not trust Microsoft with my files. (And, for the record, it's my employer who chose Office 365... not me... I use Google, Apple, and Smugmug for most of my personal stuff even though the Microsoft cloud services are very well done). Do you have any evidence, or is this just fear, uncertainty, and doubt?

In my 25 years of IT experience I have seen many people lose important data because they didn't have a solid backup routine. Even people who know they should have more than one copy of a file often don't. Sometimes they overwrite files by accident to a storage medium that has no version control. Sometimes they don't do the occasional file verification to detect corruption, and they discover too late that data is corrupted on their primary drive as well as on all the backups. Local hard drives and network shares are also more susceptible to cryptolockers than files stored in the cloud. Of course if you know what you are doing, and you are disciplined about it, local storage can be very safe as long as you keep offsite backups on portable storage media (and you know how to monitor backup processes for signs of data corruption).

Most reputable cloud services, whether provided by Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc., are more secure than you give them credit for being. Privacy can vary depending on the ToS agreement. Paid cloud services are typically going offer more privacy assurances than free services. Office 365 for Business is FERPA and HIPAA compliant file storage that can capture sensitive data types and block them from being sent via email or uploaded to unapproved cloud locations. Of course much depends on having multifactor authentication enabled. That doesn't mean you store everything in the cloud. From a security and privacy perspective, data is handled and stored depending on the classification of that data. When it comes to personal files, most of us are not storing a lot of sensitive data on our personal devices. Perhaps a few documents that have personally identifiable information that can easily be encrypted and/or backed up by other means. Passwords should always be stored in an encrypted file, encrypted app, or (gasp) even cloud-based password management solution.

Most bad actors don't want your files anyway. They honestly don't care about your files or your computer unless they are trying to extort you with a cryptolocker or other malware. They do want your email. They can use your email to send out phishing attacks, and they can download a copy of your entire mailbox so they can search the contents at their leisure.... looking to see if they can find anything useful that will help them access your financial accounts. They might search your online file storage as well, but they know from experience that most people keep things in their email that they should not... and their online file storage will just be a bunch of photos, videos, and worthless text.

You are of course free to keep your files wherever you see fit. If you prefer to forgo the convenience of cloud storage because you don't trust Apple, Microsoft, etc. you are totally within your right. I have helped a lot of people who lost important data or cherished memories that they would still have if only they had used cloud storage... so if you are going to manage your files yourself: Make sure you do it right and with multiple points of redundancy.

Back to the topic of this thread: File browsing in iOS. There have been some improvements to the Files app, but the real issue here is that file storage on iOS is kind of an afterthought. iOS is an app driven platform where the actual data is often hidden behind the app itself unless it gives you a way to export it. The apps that do create files (photos, text, video, etc.) might use local storage, popular cloud services, or both.

Before iCloud it was not unusual for people to lose their cherished photos because they didn't backup their phones using iTunes. My staff still occasionally help people who have never set up iCloud and have no idea that they should be backing up their phones. Occasionally they will help someone discover a backup they didn't realize they had... they sign into Google and discover that their phone had at least been syncing through the Google photos app. These are all on personal devices. For business devices we default the save locations to Office 365.
 

compwiz1202

macrumors 604
May 20, 2010
7,389
5,746
Oh, I agree, it is annoying.. I won't discount that. I just feel that time is better spent finding a solution rather than complaining about something that I cannot change right now. I'll deal with "annoying" later, if it's worth my time.
The other issue is the same with any Apple issue. Complaining with no action is pointless. "The price is too high" as they hand another grand to Apple for the next iPhone. What the heck reason do they have to change anything then???
[automerge]1580250316[/automerge]
Fair enough, but on the flip side, if enough people demand it, Apple might listen...

At one time, Apple wouldn't let you send pics via text... they decided that the "proper way" was via email, despite every other smartphone, and even flip phones, supported MMS.

At one time Apple felt that we didn't need to be able to copy and paste from one app to another. I mean, why would you want to copy something from an email and drop it into a text or document? Crazy, right? But Apple knew best...

At one time Apple scoffed at and made fun of screens larger than a postage stamp, until the Note started dominating sales...

At one time Apple said we didn't need wireless charging...

I could go on, and on, and on...

I am hoping that as Android keeps dominating the market, that Apple continues to adopt these common, basic features that people have been clamoring for... If we just sit as loyal sheep, eating whatever outdated crap they feed us, then they have no incentive to change and be more competitive...
Problem is demanding won't do crap without action. You need to stop giving them money or demands will fall on deaf ears.
 
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