Files App is a failure

[cynics]

This isn’t personal but this is pure BS.

Apple rejects apps ALL THE TIME FOR LEGITIMATE STUFF AND RIDICULOUS CRAP. In other words, they have said to their consumers that they are taking responsibility for the CONTENT of their apps, the Functionality of their apps, even what kind of protocols the apps use (they reject peer sharing protocols).

So in other words ... people are telling me that you can “open in place” since iOS 9 ... yet can’t name ONE FREAKING APP related to video (where this feature would be most useful) that uses it ... really? Since ios9 ? And Apple hasn’t stepped in and said “Sorry, you should be able to open in place VLC ... MXPlayer (both extremely popular video apps) and we are going to reject your app until you put this in place”

I’m not accepting this. Apple can’t micromanage ridiculous crap in apps and then evade responsibility and blame when apps aren’t offering “open in place” functionality ... SINCE IOS9??!!!

Come on.....

Let me try to save you some money before you run out and buy a Samsung Note 8 or whatever.

This "solution" comes with some caveats but they are there for a good reason which I'll briefly try to explain.

The most basic and by far the most effective security feature iOS has is its sandboxed nature. Apps can't interact with other apps or files without quite a bit of effort. Because of this malware that slips into the app store can't reek havoc. And more obvious iOS can't have a literal virus since it can't spread outside its sandbox. Unfortunately this introduces limitations in the OS that are intrusive to the user. The more Apple tries to make iOS a desktop OS replacement the more intrusive this gets. Anyway.....

Open Files.app. Long press your video. Pressure Share. From there you can share with ANY video player that has the appropriate API's, including VLC and MXplayer.



Press Copy to VLC. From there you can watch and modify the file in the VLC app.

The obvious limitation there is you "copied" the video due to the sandbox.

However once you are done doing whatever you are going to do to the video in VLC (or any video app) you can "Save to Files". If you select the same folder you originally opened it from it will ask you to "Keep Both" (rename one so you have both files) or "Replace" (copy over the original).



Is it as fluid as if there were no sandboxing? Of course not. But its certainly possible. And within the VLC app you can access cloud services including iCloud Drive (Files) however I can't get it to open a video although I can see them. This could be user error, a bug, limitations on Apples and/or VLCs side and/or a combination of those. However it should function like a streaming services to a certain extent.

Regardless I feel that people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We are talking iCloud + iOS however Google Drive + Android has its own set of hiccups and limitations albeit maybe not quite as intrusive.

 

[zorinlynx]

Keep in mind that with APFS and copy on write, making another copy of the file for another app shouldn't use more space unless they really screwed up the implementation.

Though at this stage I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

 

[Sydde]

These complaints are insignificant in light of the fact that the files.app architecture is literally broken on my iPad. I use Numbers a fair bit, and at some random point, it enters some sort of failure mode. In failure mode, I cannot see any files in “browse”. I can see them in "recents", but they refuse to respond (i.e., open). I thought this might just be Numbers (and Pages, that enters failure mode along with Numbers), but then I discovered the failure mode was affecting InkPad as well. Thus, this must be some sort of FS implementation flaw, which absolutely needs to be fixed. The limitations of the OS are somewhat tolerable, but when enhancements start to break things – in Apple apps no less – this is a serious problem. I can fix it with a restart cycle, but, damn, come on.

 

[4492865]

Let me try to save you some money before you run out and buy a Samsung Note 8 or whatever.

This "solution" comes with some caveats but they are there for a good reason which I'll briefly try to explain.

The most basic and by far the most effective security feature iOS has is its sandboxed nature. Apps can't interact with other apps or files without quite a bit of effort. Because of this malware that slips into the app store can't reek havoc. And more obvious iOS can't have a literal virus since it can't spread outside its sandbox. Unfortunately this introduces limitations in the OS that are intrusive to the user. The more Apple tries to make iOS a desktop OS replacement the more intrusive this gets. Anyway.....

Open Files.app. Long press your video. Pressure Share. From there you can share with ANY video player that has the appropriate API's, including VLC and MXplayer.

View attachment 726745

Press Copy to VLC. From there you can watch and modify the file in the VLC app.

The obvious limitation there is you "copied" the video due to the sandbox.

However once you are done doing whatever you are going to do to the video in VLC (or any video app) you can "Save to Files". If you select the same folder you originally opened it from it will ask you to "Keep Both" (rename one so you have both files) or "Replace" (copy over the original).

View attachment 726746

Is it as fluid as if there were no sandboxing? Of course not. But its certainly possible. And within the VLC app you can access cloud services including iCloud Drive (Files) however I can't get it to open a video although I can see them. This could be user error, a bug, limitations on Apples and/or VLCs side and/or a combination of those. However it should function like a streaming services to a certain extent.

Regardless I feel that people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We are talking iCloud + iOS however Google Drive + Android has its own set of hiccups and limitations albeit maybe not quite as intrusive.

But this just demonstrates the point of the original poster. For 2 years now, iOS is trying to catch up because so many apps don't support the Open In feature. Which, for a pro device, is just rediculous. Users should not have to worry to understand about sandboxing in the first place. The natural expectation of a files app is that if I tap a file, it gets opened, or at least previewed. Microsoft has alrrady indicated that they won't rush supporting the Open in feature, if at all.

Apple should work with major app developers and encouraged them to get this resolved. Even the new Afinity photo app doesn't support it. It was announced during the keynote, but it has one of the crappiest file management implementations I have ever seen.

 

[cynics]

But this just demonstrates the point of the original poster. For 2 years now, iOS is trying to catch up because so many apps don't support the Open In feature. Which, for a pro device, is just rediculous. Users should not have to worry to understand about sandboxing in the first place. The natural expectation of a files app is that if I tap a file, it gets opened, or at least previewed. Microsoft has alrrady indicated that they won't rush supporting the Open in feature, if at all.

Apple should work with major app developers and encouraged them to get this resolved. Even the new Afinity photo app doesn't support it. It was announced during the keynote, but it has one of the crappiest file management implementations I have ever seen.

That is a good point, thanks. I'm not trying to sound like an apologist because admittedly the current implementation feels counter intuitive when compared to MacOS and Windows which is something we are all used too. This in itself is fine however Apple does taut the iPad as a desktop replacement which is a problem here. Although it could be pointed out that certain distros of Linux (with GUI) can sometimes require some user effort to find the specific application you want to open a file with.

That said once you know how and why things are the way they are its not exactly difficult either. We shouldn't just "shut down" and refuse its capabilities because its not exactly like a different OS. Something I find is the more Apple tries to emulate functions of different OS's (Android especially) the more convoluted iOS becomes, much like Android can be. The "it just works" premise wasn't based on operations and procedures you are familiar with but the way it gets you to your end goal somewhat effortlessly (admittedly not the case here).

I feel there are 2 important things to remember. 1. You can't treat iOS like MacOS or Windows. Its a different OS and you need to keep that in mind when using it. This applies even when switching between MacOS, Windows and Linux. 2. And probably most importantly IMO, depending on your workload iOS is NOT a desktop replacement for everyone. This is just marketing jargon for the easy manipulated anyway. Those that feel they can replace a desktop with iPad probably can, the rest of know better. To leverage that argument is a straw man. Plus we need to recognize that "basic" functionality can be subjective and is certainly irrelevant. For example the iPad can edit 4k video which many might consider an "advanced" task, meanwhile it can't "Open with" which many could consider a "basic" task.

They are trying to cram functionality into iOS that iOS was never intended for. With time I actually think we will see a happy compromise between the way iOS functions and the way we actually use it. While we aren't there yet we've come a LONG way.

While the Files.app in combination with iOS does lack the direct "Open with" functionality (again just requiring an indirect "Share with" option) it does offer quite A LOT of file sharing functionality especially in combination with Apple devices.

A way I use the Files.app is for giving videos (home movies, movies, TV shows, blah blah all legally of course) to friends and family. Move them to iCloud Drive on my Mac and then the Files.app has full access to them. From there I can simply AirDrop them to other friends Macs and iOS devices (make sure you have unlimited data or are on Wifi because it will pull the entire movie from iCloud through your device).

If you want to work the system a little bit if you AirDrop from a Mac to your phone but use an odd file extension name it will ask you if you want to search the app store of an app that interpret that extension or save to iCloud Drive. If you save to iCloud drive then its just like moving a file from someone else's computer to yours.

Short of the "Open with" ability I feel Apple has done a splendid job with Files. And I'm looking forward to see how much better it will get.

 

[anotherpaul]

Today, I have an ipad 2017 for 3 days now. My purpose is to check out how the "greatest" tablet format works with & is usable for reading books; also have 3 android tablets.

I've installed Calibre Companion & loaded it with my Calibre library of books on a windows computer. Also installed FBReader & PocketReader to read the books.

Have looked for suitable file managers/explorers & decided to see how "Files" work; not well. Tried to see where all the stuff is on the ipad but the only thing I see is 'recents' which say 'none'; 'locak' option displays 'itunes' with zero (0) folders/files/apps. Where did my books go????

The thread starter wanted to 'play in site' for videos; me, I want to 'read in site' of a book. The copy to app tells me that there will be duplicate books & Files don't provide the ability to delete the duplicates. Eventually the ipad will become useless the 128 gig of space is being used up with all kinds of digital duplicates.

I also have not "upgrade to icloud drive" as I want to keep my data on my ipad tablet; much better as I can still read a book during an area power outage. It does seem like that apple wants the ipad to be just a dumb terminal to a cloud/mainframe.

Files is a huge failure.

 

[Shirasaki]

I do want to add, more sympathetically to the OP, that it frustrates me endlessly too that more apps have not adopted this simple change. I have discarded apps for not doing so.

Then I wonder what is your app choice. AFAIK there are not many app supporting “open in place, edit and save back without copying around”.

Sell your iPad, get a laptop.
How people are getting upset expecting an iPad to be a laptop?

Because Apple touts iPad as “a replacement for many many people”, which is not, and probably, or if I say, likely never will.
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The most basic and by far the most effective security feature iOS has is its sandboxed nature. Apps can't interact with other apps or files without quite a bit of effort. Because of this malware that slips into the app store can't reek havoc. And more obvious iOS can't have a literal virus since it can't spread outside its sandbox. Unfortunately this introduces limitations in the OS that are intrusive to the user. The more Apple tries to make iOS a desktop OS replacement the more intrusive this gets.

I would call the sandbox feature is “a prison of its own design”, albeit not in every way.

Google chrome also has sandbox feature. But with the support of file system, it is not that intrusive for user to “clear application cache” or do some light hacks.

I can see tech giants are working hard to transition the way billions of people accessing their own file, but by far, it does not work well, especially in professional environment. People are still used to “open file explorer, dig into the working folder, open whatever application required for working, finish the work, save the file and call it a day”.

 

[Feenician]

Then I wonder what is your app choice. AFAIK there are not many app supporting “open in place, edit and save back without copying around”.

I know, and that’s disappointing. It seems the most popular video player apps don’t support it and it’s especially disappointing in those since, pre-APFS, duplicating those meant duplicating sometimes very large files.

To your question, I think I said earlier in the thread I don’t have any apps for playing videos stored locally (other than TV). I tend to just download something from Netflix or Prime when I fly, or just read or work.