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diesel

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Aug 3, 2007
807
25
re-downloaded gps kit and it looks nicer. they still have that stupid trip time counter running though. also, i was hoping it could download tracks directly from everytrail but that doesn't seem to be the case. if motionx gps used google topo, i would definitely stick with motionx gps but not so sure now. i guess i'll keep both on for now and make a decision at some point after playing with both a while longer. also the new feature by which you can display distance between two points as specified by finger points is pretty cool in gps kit. Though i wonder if google knows gps kit is caching their maps for offline use. I thought google explicitly did not allow their maps to be cached like that and that's why the iphone maps app doesn't even allow us to cache maps for offline use and that's why motionx gps had to go with some other maps provider for offline topo maps caching. gps kit could be in violation of googles terms and services...........but i could be wrong.


in any case, back to the original topic............topo map apps!!!
 

CADer

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2007
470
1
hahahahaha, you're a gps whore just like me!!! :)

i also have Trails gps tracker, everytrail, GPS kit, motionx gps, and now topopoint, itopomaps and topomaps.

Basically i am looking for one good solid all around general gps app like gps kit or motionx gps and one good solid all around usgs topo map app.

based on your feedback i might have to put gps kit back on my phone and check it out again, though the dev really turned me off to it, it would be kind of neat to import my everytrail tracks into the program or someone else's for a trail that i might want to try out. i used to use everytrail and trails to record tracks to upload into everytrail but since getting my gps watch, i no longer need or want an iphone app to do that. besides, with the phone in my pocket more times than not, the phone would not keep a gps lock. i don't have that problem with my suunto watch and the watch can take 1 second recordings for the whole length of a 6 hour hike and still have half the battery life remaining!!! and a good solid lock throughout.

DID YOU JUST CALL ME A WHORE!! HAHA yeah I guess I am!
I know what you mean most of the time there is no need to just stare at the screen to know your exact coordinates every second of the trip = that would kill the battery. I actually just used GPS Kit for a 3 hour bike ride with the iPod playing, and of course I was in and out of service so the iPhone was most likely searching for signal several times, but with the new 3.0 when the light sensor is blocked the screen shuts off so I have this great Timbuk2 pouch that fits the iphone perfectly with a case on that can go on a belt vertically or horizontally so I just put it on my backpack and listen to music while the GPS Kit is running and only take it out if I think I am lost or if I have to decide to go left or right or straight. wen the ride was over I still had over half my battery - I was impressed.
The other thing that saves me when I am recording a track is I always for get an hit home (I am still getting use to the screen automatically dimming) but if you start the app it will ask it you want to continue recording the track so all was good!
Either way take a look at it and if something is off let me know so I can try it out and change your mind... I mean... um... haha no let me know and maybe I will realize it sucks or something. I truly can't figure out what so many people hate it? I told the dev. that I assumed they just stopped pushing updates cause the reviews were so bad - but he just said they like to get a lot done before updating it.

It is sweet they give you your own personal web space to host your tracks and waypoints so you can have a huge list but only download the ones you need for that trip. They have been updating that web page too as now you can delete tracks and hopefully they will add folder support.
 

diesel

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Aug 3, 2007
807
25
okay cader, i've been playing with gps kit for a little bit now and notice a few issues:

1) the google maps seem a slight bit "fuzzy" to me as if the resolution is a bit off. it's a bit annoying. it's certainly not "crisp"

2) no ability to edit waypoint details like the latitude/longitude from within the app. this is useful to me because i like to "pre-program" waypoints. it seems the only way to get a specific lat/lon in is to physically go there and set the way point.

3) no ability to even see the lat/lon of a captured waypoint. this is useful when you have multiple gps devices and would like to know the coordinates of a location so you can enter it in another device.

4) the dashboard only holds limited info requiring you to swap in and out other fields to view additional data. a royal pain in the butt.
 

CADer

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2007
470
1
okay cader, i've been playing with gps kit for a little bit now and notice a few issues:

1) the google maps seem a slight bit "fuzzy" to me as if the resolution is a bit off. it's a bit annoying. it's certainly not "crisp"

2) no ability to edit waypoint details like the latitude/longitude from within the app. this is useful to me because i like to "pre-program" waypoints. it seems the only way to get a specific lat/lon in is to physically go there and set the way point.

3) no ability to even see the lat/lon of a captured waypoint. this is useful when you have multiple gps devices and would like to know the coordinates of a location so you can enter it in another device.

4) the dashboard only holds limited info requiring you to swap in and out other fields to view additional data. a royal pain in the butt.

#@R%!&($# Sorry I just wrote a long answer and Mac-rumors logged me off for some reason!@#R!!%#@%$ ok here I go in short answer form.

1) Google Topo on the computer does not let you zoom in as close as GPS KIT does hence the fuzzyness - zoom in as far as Google Topo on your computer does on GPS KIT and it will look the same.

2) Just click the waypoint and then it will go to a screen to edit it - as far as I have seen it has the most options to edit change the entire Coordinate system if you want. and you have to just think or don't think and click on anything you want as in GPS KIT almost everything is clickable to reveal some kinda of customization or editing capabilities. So yes Waypoint are very customizable.

3) Let me know if you can get there if you have a waypoint on the map click it and you will see a fly-out over it (with the distance it is from you) then just click that (the arrow) and then touch anything on the screen you see and edit it. even touch the Compass to get bearings and navigate to it.

4) Assuming you mean it only hold 7 bits of info. yes they could easily scale all of these down and make room for more. I will mention it to them. I don't use that screen all that much when ridding but I can see what you mean. how many would be good?

Let me know if you find all of this and if you have any other complaints.
 

CADer

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2007
470
1
Wow I just noticed there is no way to not get to the edit waypoint screen as even when you add a waypoint it gives you the screen and you can click on anything to edit it, and see all of its information, even email it or see it in Google Maps app.
 

diesel

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Aug 3, 2007
807
25
Wow I just noticed there is no way to not get to the edit waypoint screen as even when you add a waypoint it gives you the screen and you can click on anything to edit it, and see all of its information, even email it or see it in Google Maps app.


ahhhh, apparently you create waypoints within a grouping. i was creating a group thinking it was a waypoint, when i have to further create waypoints. a few steps to many if you ask me. i would rather create waypoints, then decide how to organize them.

also, i asked motionx why they didn't use google topo maps. and as i suspected, CACHING GOOGLE TOPO MAPS FOR OFFLINE VIEWING IS A VIOLATION OF GOOGLE'S TERMS. gps kit is clearly in violation and its only a matter of time before google brings the hammer down on them.
 

SFC Archer

macrumors 68000
Nov 9, 2007
1,742
0
Troy, MT

CADer

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2007
470
1
ahhhh, apparently you create waypoints within a grouping. i was creating a group thinking it was a waypoint, when i have to further create waypoints. a few steps to many if you ask me. i would rather create waypoints, then decide how to organize them.

also, i asked motionx why they didn't use google topo maps. and as i suspected, CACHING GOOGLE TOPO MAPS FOR OFFLINE VIEWING IS A VIOLATION OF GOOGLE'S TERMS. gps kit is clearly in violation and its only a matter of time before google brings the hammer down on them.

I see were you are coming from when I first made a waypoint i never found it and that is because I did what you did and just made a group not an actual point.

But they are in groups for a reason! who wants a huge list of random waypoints. They need to be organized by groups for just that reason you know, so that your East LA Waypoints are not in with New York Sights Waypoints, or Yosemite in mixed about with all of them and such. But I guess I am talking to a brick wall since you seem to be turned off to GPS KIT. (Just so you know I am saying all this very calmly not mean or anything I I hope you don't take it to be mean).

As for it being the last App still using Google Maps Topo and such well they are the last one standing and I expect them to probably change it but I will forever save this 3.0 version so that I can use Google Maps with it if they do get rid of them. But as of now they do have them and thats what counts, The Now!
 

diesel

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Aug 3, 2007
807
25
CADer no offense taken. and yes, i'm not a fan of gps kit, old version or current version. to each their own i suppose. however it certainly didn't help that the dev chose to hold off on fixing bugs until he had a major release that took months to get out. not the way for any developer to manage his app when there are bugs (i.e. dashboard settings not saving, and ridiculous amount of crashes).

also, from a workflow perspective, i would rather create a waypoint, then decide what group to put it in. that way you focus on what's most important, and that is capturing the waypoint, then you organize it the way you want. that is the correct workflow to me. and motionx gps captures that workflow and more.

as for gps kit........i'm sure the dev knows he's in violation of google's terms and yet he still does what he does. and that doesn't surprise me considering when i brought bugs to his attention in the initial release and he said he would fix them and never did until several months later as part of a major upgrade............well that just sums up his attitude towards customers as well as his "partners", and that is he probably doesn't give a crap. he will do what he will and when he will regardless.

so yeah, gps kit has a huge hurdle to overcome in order to win me over again.
 

diesel

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Aug 3, 2007
807
25
A new one just came out with a free version also called TOPO2GO.

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=307752385&mt=8


I probably won't be trying this one out, not even the free one simply based on the screenshots and the fact that i'm beginning to play with the updated 1.1 versions of TopoPointUSA and iTopoMaps. The dev of iTopoMaps has been extremely open minded in listening to my suggestions and implementing them. One of the biggest frustrations of itopomaps was the insanely tedious way of trying to find the quad that you wanted to download from a big map blob. This would take a frustrating 15-30 minutes. Now you simply type in the lat/lon of a point and the app will download the quad the point is in, only takes a minute or two now. Most places you will want to hike or climb will have it's coordinates readily available on the internet. I find this method of locating and downloading the usgs quad you want, simply the fastest and most efficient. However, with the new changes, the UI is becoming a bit confusing with numerous icons, not a big deal since once you learn what icon corresponds to what, it's all in the past. Still, the direction she is taking with the app is extremely promising.

Also, TopoPointUSA continues to impress me. They were the only one of the three initial Topo map apps to get the search by gps coordinate to download topo maps concept correctly the first time around. what you should note though is that topopointusa does things a bit different though, you're not really downloading "quads' per say, but downloading a radius of x miles from the coordinate that you specify. I believe the app will stitch together pieces from multiple quads if it needs to. This is contratry to all the other topo map apps where you download specific quads. I'm not sure yet if the topopointusa method is a good or bad one. More time will be needed to play with the app, my only biggest fear is that without the ability to download whole specific quads, i could theoretically run the risk of moving out of the downloaded radius area and be screwed with no map. With the quad method of download, if you download the quad of interest plus all surrounding quads, you have a really huge area of coverage that you most likely won't run the risk of being stuck without a map. Also, topopointusa maps render much faster then the other topo map apps. And cached maps seem to render nearly instantaneous, contratry to the others. However, because of the unique non quad based nature of topopointusa, you can't simply begin "browsing" a far away quad from a map of the USA. You first need a coordinate then download the appropriate map and then you can begin browsing from there. Not a huge deal for me, cause i have better things to do then to look at a map of the usa and begin browsing topo maps at random from other states. However, if you did want to do this, it would be pretty difficult with this app. quad based topo map apps like itopomaps would allow you to do this since they provide you a bird's eye view of the states whereby you can attempt to find a quad (but as mentioned, if you are looking for a specific quad, not really easy to via this method) for viewing

Otherwise, topopoint usa's new update includes features that are nice such as a toggable display with course bearing, horizontal and vertical speed. I haven't been able to test this yet in the backcountry though. It also includes ability to auto create tracks (i.e. capture waypoints on a timed schedule). seems like people were asking for this. However not really needed for my purposes, since as mentioned before keeping the iphone on for several hours to capture a track will leave your device devoid of any battery power and you lost in the woods if you were to depend on it. I only needed this app to tell me where i was on a topo map and allow me to create and navigate to/from specific waypoints and this app does this quickly and efficient. They do mention that multiple map scale support which I believe would allow you to "zoom" into a map which the app currently doesn't allow you to do.

The one app I would NOT recommend to anyone is the Topo Maps app with is quite simply a POS. At only $3.99 it is by far the cheapest of the three, but you really do get what you pay for, which is not much. It looks like a 1.1 version was released but i've taken it off my phone after i first used it and it told me that my current location in the backcountry was off the downloaded quad map when in fact i was not. It did that multiple times. Totally and completely unreliable. Not to mention slow as all heck in bringing up maps.

I'm still going to keep both topomapusa and itopomaps apps on my iphone and continue to play with them. After the changes to itopomaps, there is currently no real clear winner here. Though for ease of use and simplicity and simple speed, i'll most likely continue to go to topomapusa first in a pinch. If you are looking for a more traditional quad based approach to topo maps, then itopomaps has definitely made enough significant improvements with their first update for me to say it's a solid app. And it can only get better.
 
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