Finally Qualcomm has stopped chasing a high core count!

[TechGod]

I would assume its down to OS and Heat Dissipation. Android is built to run multiple processes at any given time even when running benchmarks things are happening unless you root and stop it all, and with the CPUs having many cores and little room to release it, your Android with an 8core SoC have a lower throttle limit.

This is my issue with comparing Android phone benchmarks with iPhone, these are two OSs built to run differently. We would need to have an Android device run iOS or vice versa to get a true reflection of performance.

But it's nothing to do with the CPU architecture, amirite? I mean heat and the way each OS handles threads could be the only two possible reasons.

 

[TechGod]

To give you a short quick answer its not as fast and can not crunch as much CPU power as the exynos mongoose its not even close.the gpu power alone with its mp12 gpu is insane and you are confusing wide fat cores that have a specific tdp and are designed to have insane single core power and are limited to there specific tdp levels.

Watt for watt you will never clock a a9x anywhere close to the new exynos 8 because it will draw to much heat

Apple went fat wide cores.the rest went 4 almost as fat cores with 4 helper cores for low tasks.

That is why they can also clock them a little higher also

It's not almost as wide. The 820 is the thing that truly comes close to the wide cores that Apple uses. Oh and M1 too.

 

[Abazigal]

But more cores is in fact better.is the iPad pro not faster than the a9 dual core in processing power?

What about gpu cores? Do they not matter either? Like the tegra x1 with its massive 128 gpu cores? Oh wait how many gpu cores does the a9 have.

I would argue that cores matter to the extent that your workload actually uses that many cores.

On a desktop? Even a quad-core can be overkill unless you are doing stuff like video editing on it. On a mobile device, what are people doing that regularly max out that many cores?

 

[TechGod]

I would argue that cores matter to the extent that your workload actually uses that many cores.

On a desktop? Even a quad-core can be overkill unless you are doing stuff like video editing on it. On a mobile device, what are people doing that regularly max out that many cores?

Exactly. Mobile workloads would most likely work better with faster dual cores than 4 slow ones.

 

[Tsepz]

I would argue that cores matter to the extent that your workload actually uses that many cores.

On a desktop? Even a quad-core can be overkill unless you are doing stuff like video editing on it. On a mobile device, what are people doing that regularly max out that many cores?

May I ask, was the Apple A8 SoC capable of both Encode and Decode of 4K@30FPS video and HEVC H.265? I know Android SoCs were capable of decode of both since the 2013 Samsung Exynos5410, found in the Galaxy S4, and then capable of encode and decode in the 2013 Snapdragon 800.

 

[Abazigal]

May I ask, was the Apple A8 SoC capable of both Encode and Decode of 4K@30FPS video and HEVC H.265? I know Android SoCs were capable of decode of both since the 2013 Samsung Exynos5410, found in the Galaxy S4, and then capable of encode and decode in the 2013 Snapdragon 800.

I am sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about, nor do I see its relevance to the discussion at hand.

 

[Tsepz]

I am sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about, nor do I see its relevance to the discussion at hand.

4K video is extremely taxing on a SoC, and getting enough power with as low temperature as possible to do 4K on a Mobile SoC is extremely difficult, and the fact that Apple didn't do it in the A7 or A8 tells me their SoCs may not be as powerful as we are being made to believe.

 

[Abazigal]

4K video is extremely taxing on a SoC, and getting enough power with as low temperature as possible to do 4K on a Mobile SoC is extremely difficult, and the fact that Apple didn't do it in the A7 or A8 tells me their SoCs may not be as powerful as we are being made to believe.

Apple's SOCs are powerful enough to do the job they were designed to do, nothing more or less.

I looked it up and yes, it seems the A8 is capable of processing 4K video. Not that it matters, since the iPhone 6 can't take 4K video.

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2014/11/24/iphone-6-a8-4k-video/

That said, I still don't see what your point is. More cores means more heat generated, which means faster throttling or slower speeds. It's telling that the iPhone 5s has faster single core benchmarks than many an Android flagship today.

And most people do use their phones in a manner which typically favours single core performance. So I ask again, because I genuinely have no idea - what are some real life use cases that regularly tap on 3 or 4 cores over a sustained period of time?

 

[Tsepz]

Apple's SOCs are powerful enough to do the job they were designed to do, nothing more or less.

I looked it up and yes, it seems the A8 is capable of processing 4K video. Not that it matters, since the iPhone 6 can't take 4K video.

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2014/11/24/iphone-6-a8-4k-video/

That said, I still don't see what your point is. More cores means more heat generated, which means faster throttling or slower speeds. It's telling that the iPhone 5s has faster single core benchmarks than many an Android flagship today.

And most people do use their phones in a manner which typically favours single core performance. So I ask again, because I genuinely have no idea - what are some real life use cases that regularly tap on 3 or 4 cores over a sustained period of time?

It could decode but not encode.

Thats great that a 5S has good single core benchmarks, except...Androids run multiple cores at a time, so multi core is what we look at.

Have you ever sat and monitored an Android with CPU-Z? my Note 4 regularly bounces between 1-4cores, as in Android, multiptle processes are constantly going, some require a few MHz some a GHz, the SoC has to have a mix of small and big cores.

My Note 4 as I type this has 1 core that has stopped, 2 running at 300MHz and 1 at 1.5GHz.

 

[Abazigal]

It could decode but not encode.

Thats great that a 5S has good single core benchmarks, except...Androids run multiple cores at a time, so multi core is what we look at.

Have you ever sat and monitored an Android with CPU-Z? my Note 4 regularly bounces between 1-4cores, as in Android, multiptle processes are constantly going, some require a few MHz some a GHz, the SoC has to have a mix of small and big cores.

My Note 4 as I type this has 1 core that has stopped, 2 running at 300MHz and 1 at 1.5GHz.
View attachment 601567

I am regularly told that Android is a very complex OS that requires many cores to run efficiently, but these responses often stop short of offering concrete examples of just what Android is doing in the background that require that much resources.

Are you sure that screenshot you provided isn't simply an example of Android being plain inefficient? It's like boasting that your car consumes twice the amount of fuel as my car, but unless your car is also doing twice the amount of meaningful work as mine, it's a pointless and hollow boast.

 

[Tsepz]

I am regularly told that Android is a very complex OS that requires many cores to run efficiently, but these responses often stop short of offering concrete examples of just what Android is doing in the background that require that much resources.

Are you sure that screenshot you provided isn't simply an example of Android being plain inefficient? It's like boasting that your car consumes twice the amount of fuel as my car, but unless your car is also doing twice the amount of meaningful work as mine, it's a pointless and hollow boast.

Nope. Like I said, as things happen in the background the SoC adjusts, let me show you:

 

[John Mcgregor]

Nope. Like I said, as things happen in the background the SoC adjusts, let me show you:
View attachment 601568
View attachment 601569
View attachment 601570

So Android manufacturers created a problem trying to differentiate themselves from Apple. Started a moronic numbers race and now you try explain that by seeing logic in it. WOW.

Apple realised from the start that many cores makes no sense in a phone and it has been proven right since 2007.

OK.

 

[Tsepz]

So Android manufacturers created a problem trying to differentiate themselves from Apple. Started a moronic numbers race and now you try explain that by seeing logic in it. WOW.

Apple realised from the start that many cores makes no sense in a phone and it has been proven right since 2007.

OK.

If what you said is true, the latest Apple iPhone and iPad would have a single core CPU with single core GPU.

Soon enough we will see more cores in their chips.

Just say you hate Android and end it there, rather than make stupid blanket statements.

Cheers.

 

[Michael Goff]

It could decode but not encode.

Thats great that a 5S has good single core benchmarks, except...Androids run multiple cores at a time, so multi core is what we look at.

Have you ever sat and monitored an Android with CPU-Z? my Note 4 regularly bounces between 1-4cores, as in Android, multiptle processes are constantly going, some require a few MHz some a GHz, the SoC has to have a mix of small and big cores.

My Note 4 as I type this has 1 core that has stopped, 2 running at 300MHz and 1 at 1.5GHz.
View attachment 601567

But are all apps coded to take advantage of those cores?

 

[Tsepz]

But are all apps coded to take advantage of those cores?

If I'm not mistaken this is part of the very base of making Android apps, whether your less sophisticated apps do it properly is another story though.

 

[Michael Goff]

If I'm not mistaken this is part of the very base of making Android apps, whether your less sophisticated apps do it properly is another story though.

That's why I asked. I don't know about that sort of thing. I just know that a 60fps smooth home screen is great and all, but apps need to take advantage of that power as well.

 

[Tsepz]

That's why I asked. I don't know about that sort of thing. I just know that a 60fps smooth home screen is great and all, but apps need to take advantage of that power as well.

2years ago there was a huge gap between top quality apps and poor quality, but I must say, these days its hard to find a bad quality one, and when you do there is usually a better quality version made by another team.

 

[Michael Goff]

2years ago there was a huge gap between top quality apps and poor quality, but I must say, these days its hard to find a bad quality one, and when you do there is usually a better quality version made by another team.

That is true. I'm just wondering if that's because of Android and the cores. I get the feeling the OS is using more resources than any app. The only poor app I've seen lately is Google Plus. >_>

Horrible app.

 

[Blaze4G]

That is true. I'm just wondering if that's because of Android and the cores. I get the feeling the OS is using more resources than any app. The only poor app I've seen lately is Google Plus. >_>

Horrible app.

Android OS barely uses any resources in my experience. I base this on the battery stats where Android system /Android OS is way down on the chart. It is usually higher up if you unistall/install various apps though.

The difference between Android and iOS in my limited understanding is Android does alot more background activity. Apps are "more free" to run in the background which can be both good and bad. However iOS limits background activity. Based on this I think iOS needs less cores since it is essentially doing less multitasking. I don't think either approach is right or wrong.

 

[Tsepz]

Android OS barely uses any resources in my experience. I base this on the battery stats where Android system /Android OS is way down on the chart. It is usually higher up if you unistall/install various apps though.

The difference between Android and iOS in my limited understanding is Android does alot more background activity. Apps are "more free" to run in the background which can be both good and bad. However iOS limits background activity. Based on this I think iOS needs less cores since it is essentially doing less multitasking. I don't think either approach is right or wrong.

Exactly. The Android OS itself never eats up much battery, the Android System can get power hungry e.g. if the phone just booted up from a long power off state and its indexing the MicroSD for about 2-3mins, then it settles.

That is exactly it, Android does a lot more in the background and the small cores in Octa CPUs are so frugal yet decently powerful that they tend to most of the work, the bigger cores only activate when more power is required. You may find that e.g. in a Note5, when the phone is in standby it uses just one of the low power cores to keep things going.

An Android wouldn't do well Apples A SoC, as one of those two cores would always be running and due to both being large cores (e.g. having two A57 Cortex cores), it would be inefficient to run multiple things as you'd have a big core always drawing power.

The Dual Core suits iOS in its current state as iOS is truly a limited mobile OS, background tasks kept at a minimum, its not made for multitasking, but as Apple now is implementing multitasking we may see cores go up in the A10 SoC to quad core or even Octa.

 

[TechGod]

Exactly. The Android OS itself never eats up much battery, the Android System can get power hungry e.g. if the phone just booted up from a long power off state and its indexing the MicroSD for about 2-3mins, then it settles.

That is exactly it, Android does a lot more in the background and the small cores in Octa CPUs are so frugal yet decently powerful that they tend to most of the work, the bigger cores only activate when more power is required. You may find that e.g. in a Note5, when the phone is in standby it uses just one of the low power cores to keep things going.

An Android wouldn't do well Apples A SoC, as one of those two cores would always be running and due to both being large cores (e.g. having two A57 Cortex cores), it would be inefficient to run multiple things as you'd have a big core always drawing power.

The Dual Core suits iOS in its current state as iOS is truly a limited mobile OS, background tasks kept at a minimum, its not made for multitasking, but as Apple now is implementing multitasking we may see cores go up in the A10 SoC to quad core or even Octa.

I wasn't aware of how much of Android was multithreaded. Very interesting. Wonder how much better battery could be improved in the iPhone if it had two big clusters and two LITTLE clusters.