Great, thanks for the head's up! I'll download it when I get home tonight... I sue Safari on my Mac, and Firefox on my PC, but have Firefox on my Mac as well "just in case"... it's good to have options... 
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Firefox 1.5 Released
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I suppose I should download it to keep it up to date on my system. But I like Safari too much to use anything else. I have VERY few compatibility problems. (If I do, only IE6 on Windows appears to work).
Does this version use proper Mac OS X Aqua GUI widgets? Or have we still got to put up with those crummy Windows imitations?
I can't see why anyone would use FireFox on Mac over Camino (and Safari displays everything nicer than Camino).
Does this version use proper Mac OS X Aqua GUI widgets? Or have we still got to put up with those crummy Windows imitations?
I can't see why anyone would use FireFox on Mac over Camino (and Safari displays everything nicer than Camino).
johnnyjibbs said:
I can't understand using Safari over Firefox or Camino. HTML doesn't have "proper" widgets of any kind--it's whatever you choose to display. Firefox's standard widgets are boxy and take less energy to render, which is fine with me. It leaves more processor power for other applications to waste on the Mac OS X GUI--like anything that uses the liquid effects progress bar with its 50 % CPU usage.
Eye candy isn't everything--at least, not to me.
A partial list of reasons (mostly subjective) why I don't use (or like) Firefox on OS X:
Lack of support (AFAIK) for Keychain, System Services, Cocoa keybindings (e.g. for textarea editing), and other useful OS X integration functionality
The UI is uncomfortably awkward and unintuitively un-Mac-like; still feels and behaves too much like an unwelcome visitor
Suffers from creeping featurism, e.g. too many preferences and extensions
The wide diversity of extension quality and support contributes to UI inconsistency, instability, and unpredictability ¹
Extension management can be a tedious maintenance ritual, e.g. ensuring compatibility with core browser updates ¹
The benefits of rapid ongoing development also leave a negative impression of seeming perpetually unfinished and unpolished
¹ Same might be said for Safari plugins but there are many fewer of them than Firefox plugins
I'm well aware of many compelling and convincing arguments in favor of Firefox. But, overall, what I'd gain by using Firefox as my primary OS X browser is less important for me (right now) than what I'd lose. Inevitably, that sort of tradeoff often matters most when I'm choosing and using any software. And what's personally "best" now might change later.
Lack of support (AFAIK) for Keychain, System Services, Cocoa keybindings (e.g. for textarea editing), and other useful OS X integration functionality
The UI is uncomfortably awkward and unintuitively un-Mac-like; still feels and behaves too much like an unwelcome visitor
Suffers from creeping featurism, e.g. too many preferences and extensions
The wide diversity of extension quality and support contributes to UI inconsistency, instability, and unpredictability ¹
Extension management can be a tedious maintenance ritual, e.g. ensuring compatibility with core browser updates ¹
The benefits of rapid ongoing development also leave a negative impression of seeming perpetually unfinished and unpolished
¹ Same might be said for Safari plugins but there are many fewer of them than Firefox plugins
I'm well aware of many compelling and convincing arguments in favor of Firefox. But, overall, what I'd gain by using Firefox as my primary OS X browser is less important for me (right now) than what I'd lose. Inevitably, that sort of tradeoff often matters most when I'm choosing and using any software. And what's personally "best" now might change later.
Keychain is accessed just fine... Text area editing is much better using Firefox than Safari (e.g. here at MR all the text tools work flawlessly when posting with FF, not so for Safari), but of course the native spell checker is missingsjk said:
(). SpellBound is OK, but not a full good substitute... What other "useful OS X inttegration" are you missing?I have no ide what you're taliking about. FF looks (it's identical in looks to e.g. Mail) and feels (all the menus are where they are expected to be) like any other Mac program...sjk said:
Too many options is a problem...??? Just don't install what you don't need...sjk said:
Are you kidding? Bugfixing is a problem for you?sjk said:
You've hit the nail on the head.Mitthrawnuruodo said:I'm guessing johnnyjibbs isn't too interested in skins, but referes to these (which aren't aqua, at all
I like the eye candy actually. In my opinion, it gives a more pleasant viewing experience and I can live with the power usage trade-off.bousozoku said:
I've just remembered my biggest reason for liking Safari: The page loading status occurs in the address bar at the top! Each to his or her own
sjk said:
I know your opinion is valid, but the extensions mechanism is to allow you to pick and choose want you want to install. I have only two extensions installed on my FF 1.0.7 install, adblock and the addblock.filterset.G updater.
Which leads me to a question ... I installed a FF 1.5 RC but adblock didn't work properly. It displayed many blocked ads as broken images. I want this to be fixed before I go to 1.5 - is it?
Mitthrawnuruodo said:
FF is totally different. If you think FF is mac-like then you don't understand the difference between cocoa apps and non cocoa apps. It looks/feels nothing like mail or any other cocoa app. It tries to and probably passes like a native mac app to most users, but not to people have a feel for cocoa apps.
I used Firefox on my PC as a way to get away from IE and its problems, but I never really liked it. Felt a bit kludgy to me and I didn't like the way it handled "favorites." However, it certainly has many things in its favor when compared to IE! When I came into the Mac world and began using Safari, I immediately like that browser SO much better than either IE or Firefox. I am not planning to put FF on my Mac, no real need to do so when I"m happy with Safari. Yes, there have been times when some website doesn't like Safari, but I've taken care of that by simply going in the other room and firing up the old PC. Eventually, though, i suppose I'll have to install at least one other browser, either Netscape or Firefox, when I finally give my Windoze machine the heave-ho and this becomes an exclusively Mac household.
OTB
OTB
That's good to know.Mitthrawnuruodo said:
But can you use Emacs-style (Cocoa) key bindings when editing? Maybe I'd have to scrounge for an extension to emulate that?
That was one example.but of course the native spell checker is missing
Being able to conveniently add content to DEVONthink Pro, with the page titles preserved, has become invaluable for me. That sort of interaction between FF and other apps is often clumsy and sometimes only partially works (if at all).
When I last ran v1.0.x (on Panther) there were unintuitive inconsistencies with certain shortcuts. I don't remember the details. [edit: radiantmark's comment better expresses what I'm fumbling with]
I admit to not testing if any of these things are addressed in 1.5.
Part of the "problem" is how time consuming it can be figuring out and finding which extensions you want/need (see below). Maybe that's a non-issue for you but generally assuming it isn't seems arrogantly short-sighted.Too many options is a problem...??? Just don't install what you don't need...
That's a false implication based on your misinterpretation of what I wrote.
Sure, but I'd be looking for other ones (and did, when I eval'd FF) to get certain desired functionality I already have with other browsers.plinden said:
Which is an example of the kind of extension maintenance hassles that FF is prone to.
Don't get me wrong, there are some great FF extensions but I also think there's still too much "sloppiness" in effectively managing them.
. . .
I'm not trying to invite aggressive arguments about any of this with anyone (including you, Mitthrawnuruodo... no need to get hostile with my opinions), just trying to balance the discussion a bit with some different views than the common zealotry.
Said subjectively simple, FF just doesn't "flow" for me as well as other browsers on OS X. And I couldn't care less if people love or hate it; I'm here out of curiosity about the reasons behind the differing opinions and maybe to learn something new.
i decided to give ff a try for this next week. i'd been off-and-on using the nightly optimized versions and 1.5 (optimized) is actually decent. my biggest gripes were fixed, which all had to do with shortcut keys being consistent with camino/safari. that helps a lot.
the biggest plus about ff for me is that it handles proxy access the best. i can now access my school's library from home and get all the electronic journals.
two annoying things that i hope someone can answer, though:
1. whenever a new window opens, it situates itself so that it's not completely on top the previous window - it's a little lower and to the right. i hate that. plus, i can't see the status bar below. can i fix that?
2. what causes the long launch time? what should i remove from my profile to speed up launch? moreover, ff sometimes loads behind other apps. can i fix this, too?
the biggest plus about ff for me is that it handles proxy access the best. i can now access my school's library from home and get all the electronic journals.
two annoying things that i hope someone can answer, though:
1. whenever a new window opens, it situates itself so that it's not completely on top the previous window - it's a little lower and to the right. i hate that. plus, i can't see the status bar below. can i fix that?
2. what causes the long launch time? what should i remove from my profile to speed up launch? moreover, ff sometimes loads behind other apps. can i fix this, too?
No, it isn't. Firefox uses its own separate password manager.Mitthrawnuruodo said:
Also, http://www.furbism.com/firefoxmac/
I use Firefox almost exclusively on my PC (one of the exceptions is when I am on nba.com). I used to use it all the time when I just switched to a mac too. But after 10.4.3, Safari is a much faster browser and renders code/pages better then FF. I dont think even 1.5 passes the 'acid 2 test".
Dont get me wrong, I love the extensions and plug-ins but its just that it takes forever for pages to load on FF whereas its a breeze on Safari. Maybe if I knew how to manipulate tabs (open in a new tab, close tab) just by using my mouse pad (w/o holding down the fricking cmd key)...
Dont get me wrong, I love the extensions and plug-ins but its just that it takes forever for pages to load on FF whereas its a breeze on Safari. Maybe if I knew how to manipulate tabs (open in a new tab, close tab) just by using my mouse pad (w/o holding down the fricking cmd key)...
Either way, it still works, even if it's a small nuisanse that you don't have them along with the other passwords, but you can still retrieve them in FF preferences and manually add them to the keychain...Lazyhound said:
How is it so different? So they use different APIs, but I still want to know what makes it feel so "totally different".radiantmark said:
radiantmark said:
kugino said:
Toward your question 1, the new windows open that way to let you know it's in a new window and not the existing one. This is how most programs open windows. The status bar can be opened by going under "View" and checking "Status Bar".
As for question 2 I notice the long initial load time, but since I keep the browser open for days at a time this isn't really an issue for me since once its open ther's no lag. I don't know of any tricks to get it to load quicker.
mileslong said:
I am a FF diehard but on my machine (1.5 PB with 1GB RAM) Safari is overall
much more responsive.
Compile 'em all said:
The only thing that seems slower on Firefox to me is actually opening the application. Once it's open, it seems more responsive and faster than Safari to me. It also seems to render pages a bit faster.
FadeToBlack said:
There is some delay when opening a new tab in FF, although very small but it
is noticeable. In Safari, Tabs opens instantely with no delay whatsoever. As
well, in safari (and OS X in general) when in a single-line text field (Like
google search bar), the keyboard's Up and Down arrows acts as Home and End keys.
Not in FF.
Compile 'em all said:
I've noticed the exact opposite. In Safari, when you have the tab bar hid and try and open a new tab, there's a split second delay. There's no delay at all when you've got "always show tab bar" selected. Either way, though, I think both Safari and Firefox are excellent browsers.