Firefox comes up blank

[Ambrosia7177]

I just fired up my iPhone and personal hotspot and connected my old MBP to it, and that solved everything.

Maybe I do need to call the hotel's tech support and see if my old MBP is still whitelisted?

(I was away for 3 weeks, so maybe something happened?)

Why not just use the AT&T personal hotspot on my iPhone that I am paying for?

Well, because I have determined that when I use my personal hotspot that I cannot override AT&T's DNS system... (I asked for help on this in another thread previosuly, but didn't get a resolution. God all fo this privacy and security stuff can be exhausting!!!)

 

[folmerw]

Have you tried Firefox Legacy?

Works well on my old work 2010 Mac Pro running Lion…

 

[Boyd01]

Sorry, can't help with the Firefox issue. But I have a 2008 MBP that still works fine (although the battery is completely dead). Stopped using it in 2013, just too old, slow and generally beat-up.

I have some very expensive CAD and 3d software that only runs on Mountain Lion. I'm retired and don't use it much, but still need it. Recently I got a new Mac and have setup Mountain Lion and Sierra virtual machines, which work great in Parallels on Catalina. My old software runs much faster than it ever did on the original old Macs.

Anyway, you might want to consider a solution like this for the future, so you can run a more secure version of MacOS that is still supported.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I suspect that have moved past the security capacity of the old FireFox app that you are using on Mountain Lion - and Mountain Lion is not helping you, either...
Just for info - you are stuck with Firefox 48 on Mountain Lion. Simply moving up one system version to OS X 10.9 Mavericks would allow you to go to a (much more secure) Firefox 78 - very near the current version 81.

This probably sums things up, unless maybe it could also be a sign of hardware failure?

Here is an update on more strange things happening...

a.) I have this Nikon app that has popped up maybe once every 60-90 days reminding me that its time to update. Well, I have seen this popup occur like 6-8 times in the last week...

b.) In the last few days, when I try and connect to WiFi, or even while I am connected to WiFi, I see the WiFi icon with an exclamation mark through it - meaning the Internet is down. (Yet on my rMBPs, I am connected to the hotel Wi-Fi.) This has also happened at least once when trying to tether to my iPhone with personal AT&T hotspot.

c.) Last night I was recording one of my favorite Internet streaming radio shows from Chrome (and then Firefox) using Audacity, and the Internet connection died several times during the show - which really screwed up my recording of an otherwise awesome show. I'm pissed about that! During the two hour show, I had to fiddle with trying to recoonect to the hotel WiFi or my iPhone hotspot, and switching browsers, and so on.


Sounds like my old MacBook Pro is no longer compatable with Wi-Fi or websites or the Internet? Is that it?

 

[DeltaMac]

No, more likely just the old software that you are running.
(But, also possible that your wifi card is slowly failing.)
As I posted earlier - you wouldn't need to move up much to have a significant "modernization" of your browsers, and your security in general - at least if you want to continue to use the old MBPro.
Any 2009 MBPro can be updated to El Capitan. Even going to Mavericks (OS X 10.9.5) would, at a minimum, allow you to go to a much newer version of Firefox, for example.

But - you could also try just using a different user account, just as a test to see if the problem is associated only with your normal user account (and providing you with a (probably) easy fix for your problem.

Another step, would be to monitor your Network diagnostics pane to see if you drop your internet when web pages stop loading.
One advantage to running Mountain Lion is that you have a troubleshooting link in the Network pane that shows you a window that displays simple green, yellow or red lights, showing the status of your various network components. Go to your Network pane, click "Assist me..." then click "Diagnostics". There's your network status lights. All green should be a completely working internet. Other colors will show you which components are reporting a status of "not working at the moment"
You can leave THAT window open all the time. Lights should be all green. If you lose your connection, then the network "lights" should also reflect that change in your connection.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

No, more likely just the old software that you are running.
(But, also possible that your wifi card is slowly failing.)
As I posted earlier - you wouldn't need to move up much to have a significant "modernization" of your browsers, and your security in general - at least if you want to continue to use the old MBPro.

Understood. But the problem is that until I get some audio environments working on my newer rMBP, I can't risk upgrdaing and trashing the only working audio environment that I have. (Am working with someone right now to figure out why my audio is screwed up on my rMBP.)

I suppose I could just cone my old MBP using CCC, try an upgrade, see if that helps, and if not, then roll things back to my origial image... Would that work?

Any 2009 MBPro can be updated to El Capitan. Even going to Mavericks (OS X 10.9.5) would, at a minimum, allow you to go to a much newer version of Firefox, for example.

What is the newest that I could upgrade to?

But - you could also try just using a different user account, just as a test to see if the problem is associated only with your normal user account (and providing you with a (probably) easy fix for your problem.

Another step, would be to monitor your Network diagnostics pane to see if you drop your internet when web pages stop loading.

Okay.

One advantage to running Mountain Lion is that you have a troubleshooting link in the Network pane that shows you a window that displays simple green, yellow or red lights, showing the status of your various network components. Go to your Network pane, click "Assist me..." then click "Diagnostics". There's your network status lights. All green should be a completely working internet. Other colors will show you which components are reporting a status of "not working at the moment"

I am recording a radio show right now via Internet stream in Firefox.

When I do as you say, I see...

Etehrnet: Red (Failed)
Network Settings: Red (Failed)
ISP: Green
Internet: Green
Server: Green

So what does that tell me?

You can leave THAT window open all the time. Lights should be all green. If you lose your connection, then the network "lights" should also reflect that change in your connection.

Okay, that is good to know! 👍

 

[DeltaMac]

Understood. But the problem is that until I get some audio environments working on my newer rMBP, I can't risk upgrdaing and trashing the only working audio environment that I have. (Am working with someone right now to figure out why my audio is screwed up on my rMBP.)

I suppose I could just cone my old MBP using CCC, try an upgrade, see if that helps, and if not, then roll things back to my origial image... Would that work?

Yes, that would work. Will it HELP? I don't know. But, you will be able to revert to your backed up system, if it does not help.


What is the newest that I could upgrade to?

Going from Mountain Lion to 10.9.5 Mavericks would allow you to update to Firefox 78.
You would have to upgrade to 10.12.6 (Sierra) to get a later version of Firefox (and you can't get to Sierra on your 2009 MBPro natively.)

I am recording a radio show right now via Internet stream in Firefox.

When I do as you say, I see...

Etehrnet: Red (Failed)
Network Settings: Red (Failed)
ISP: Green
Internet: Green
Server: Green

So what does that tell me?

That tells you that you don't have an ethernet connection. If you only use wifi on your MBPro, hit the Back button on that window, then choose Wifi instead of Ethernet. That will change the display to show only the wifi parts of your network. Less confusing, I think. The Ethernet shows you some green lights, because you do have an internet connection, just not coming through your Ethernet port.
If you want to see what happens, go to your top menu Wifi, choose "Turn Wi-Fi off". All the lights go red. Turn Wi-Fi on. And, you will see the lights return to green. At least, they all should be green when your internet is working. Return to that window when your internet drops off. Which light(s) are red (or yellow)?

I put answers within your quote, be sure to scroll through to see those. Hope this helps you!

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I put answers within your quote, be sure to scroll through to see those. Hope this helps you!

To upgrade from Mountain Lion, must I go to Mavericks, or can I skip releases?

Also, where could I get a full-version of things like Mavericks, Yosemite, El Capitan?

I am back out in the field now, and left my hard-drive with full-versions of macOS on them at home. (Although I think I only have full-version copies of macOS Sierra, High Sierra, and Mojave.)

 

[DeltaMac]

If you have ever downloaded an older system, such as Mavericks, or Yosemite, you can download the install app from your App Store. It would be listed in the Purchased tab.

I've thought about your situation a bit...
If you are away from your "normal" stuff, old backups, other software tools, and not convenient to get those - what about using a different user account on your newer MBpro, at least to do your personal online "stuff". Or, external drive on that same, newer laptop. Booted from an external drive, you would really have to do something purposefully to screw up the various files stored on your main work laptop, those that I know are important to you.

To answer your first question in your last post - you absolutely don't need to go "one release at a time" through all the intervening updates to get to a later system version. 10.8.5 should be no problem going to 10.12.6 in a one step upgrade, should you want to do that.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

If you have ever downloaded an older system, such as Mavericks, or Yosemite, you can download the install app from your App Store. It would be listed in the Purchased tab.

Unfortunately I didn't know better than to keep copies locally until it was too late.

I've thought about your situation a bit...
If you are away from your "normal" stuff, old backups, other software tools, and not convenient to get those - what about using a different user account on your newer MBpro, at least to do your personal online "stuff". Or, external drive on that same, newer laptop. Booted from an external drive, you would really have to do something purposefully to screw up the various files stored on your main work laptop, those that I know are important to you.

What would that accomplish?

The ways that I am married to this old MBP are mainly my ability to record radio shows off the Internet or anything else related to Audacity and my ability to make VoIP calls (aka MY PHONE!!).

In addition, surprisingly, until recently I had the best luck accessing websites, watching videos, and so on on this old Mac. (The problem with my newer MBPs is that I secured them even more and run a lot of browser add-ons that break websites consistently. My old MBP is running more "naked" so it played iwth the Net much better, until now it seems so old that is no longer true.)

Oh, and my AT&T email and Thunderbird are set up on my old MBP, and like my audio situation, I'm afriad to touch my AT&T email on my newer MBPs, because dealing with AT&T is a horrible experience!! (Yeah, I need to stop using my AT&T email, but again, migrating and phasing things out takes time...)

As usual, my digital life is a bird's nest and there don't seem to be enough hours in the day to fix things...

To answer your first question in your last post - you absolutely don't need to go "one release at a time" through all the intervening updates to get to a later system version. 10.8.5 should be no problem going to 10.12.6 in a one step upgrade, should you want to do that.

Dumb question, but how then would I "upgrade" from Mountain Lion to "Sierra" without rewriting my entire HDD?

Historically, I am old-school, and when I want a newer OS I simply rebuild my machine, so I don't have any experience simply "upgrading" on an existing Mac with existing apps and data that you wish to keep.

Thanks for your patience and helpw ith this...

 

[DeltaMac]

You can upgrade your system: Make a bootable OS X installer for the system that you want to upgrade to.
Boot to that installer device. Install OS X from the menu.
And, wait for the upgrade to complete.
You said you have a 2009 MacBook? Or MacBook Pro?
A Late 2009 MacBook (not Pro) can upgrade directly to High Sierra.
A mid-2009 Macbook Pro would be limited to El Capitan.
Either way, you can upgrade to the latest supported system in one procedure.
That does not "rewrite your entire HDD", just the operating system (and the Apple native apps).
Usually, no problems, keeping in mind that you would also make sure that the apps you use are supported by the new system, or can be updated for that support.

Some are not comfortable with the "normal" upgrade, and prefer the backup, full erase, install from scratch approach.
But, of course, you know that is something that you don't go into with no prep.
Lots of folks just do the simple upgrade install. And, many times it makes little difference in the end - except for the time (and more hassles) involved. Simple upgrade should take less than 1 hour from start to finish, tops. It would be quicker, too, if you have already "done the good job" by upgrading your HDD to an SSD.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

You can upgrade your system: Make a bootable OS X installer for the system that you want to upgrade to.

Is there a link to a full-version of: Mavericks, Yosemite, El Capitan? (Preferably from Apple so I know it doesn't have spyware in it!)

Boot to that installer device. Install OS X from the menu.
And, wait for the upgrade to complete.
You said you have a 2009 MacBook? Or MacBook Pro?
A Late 2009 MacBook (not Pro) can upgrade directly to High Sierra.
A mid-2009 Macbook Pro would be limited to El Capitan.

Looks like I misspoke... The first Mac that I ever bought was a 2008/2009, but my "old" MacBook Pro actually says it is a MacBook Pro, 13-inch, mid-2012.

Either way, you can upgrade to the latest supported system in one procedure.
That does not "rewrite your entire HDD", just the operating system (and the Apple native apps).
Usually, no problems, keeping in mind that you would also make sure that the apps you use are supported by the new system, or can be updated for that support.

I could try that on a clone of my original HDD.

Some are not comfortable with the "normal" upgrade, and prefer the backup, full erase, install from scratch approach.
But, of course, you know that is something that you don't go into with no prep.

Lots of folks just do the simple upgrade install. And, many times it makes little difference in the end - except for the time (and more hassles) involved. Simple upgrade should take less than 1 hour from start to finish, tops. It would be quicker, too, if you have already "done the good job" by upgrading your HDD to an SSD.

If I could actually get all of my applications working on my rMBPs THAT would solve everything. But if it was that easy I wouldn't be here posting...

All of this does look like a serious reminder that I need to retire my AT&T account. And my audio/telephony environments have been a nagging issue, but tehre are only so many hours in the day...

 

[DeltaMac]

Let me share the process that I use when I do maintenance reinstalls/upgrades:
Connect blank external drive. Boot Mac to a suitable version of macOS installer.
Install system on external drive. Complete the install, choose to migrate data and files (all of it, no customized sets here) from the present boot drive. This can take several hours with lots of data, but you don't have to look for other disks, or do much more than just wait for it to finish. When complete, the external drive has exactly the same setup as the internal boot drive.
Boot again to the external installer device. Use Disk Utility to erase the internal drive (you have a full backup, remember?), and now do the same task a second time, except you will install macOS on your just erased drive.
And, migrate your files and everything, same process as before.
And, when all is said and done, you have the exact same setup --- with a fresh system install (or a newer system - your choice!) underneath it all, ending on the same internal drive
Or, you can miss half of that by deciding to replace the internal drive with the external that you used for your backup. When your initial full install and migration is complete to the external drive, just swap the external into your MacBook - and you are done then.
It's not as thorough as a "nuke & pave", but the system reload often helps with a system that is just being a little flaky

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Let me share the process that I use when I do maintenance reinstalls/upgrades:
Connect blank external drive. Boot Mac to a suitable version of macOS installer.
Install system on external drive. Complete the install, choose to migrate data and files (all of it, no customized sets here) from the present boot drive. This can take several hours with lots of data, but you don't have to look for other disks, or do much more than just wait for it to finish. When complete, the external drive has exactly the same setup as the internal boot drive.

I follow you, but...

Actually, it has a new copy of cyour current OS and (in theory) a copy of all of your applications and data files and maybe your application settings.

You don't have an *exact* copy of your original HDD - you have (in theory) a "refreeshed" version if all went well.

Using CCC would (in theory) give you a true copy of yur original HDD.

Just sayin...

Boot again to the external installer device. Use Disk Utility to erase the internal drive (you have a full backup, remember?), and now do the same task a second time, except you will install macOS on your just erased drive.
And, migrate your files and everything, same process as before.
And, when all is said and done, you have the exact same setup --- with a fresh system install (or a newer system - your choice!) underneath it all, ending on the same internal drive

Except if something went wrong, then you have no backup, because you just nuked your original HDD.

A better approach to what you sugegst would be to TEST your newly created environment on the external drive, make sure *everything* works, and then maybe a few weeks later erase the original HDD and install your "new and improved" setup on your internal drive...


Since I am 1,000 miles from home, probably what I should try and do is run CCC on my copy today - I have a clone from a few weeks ago back home - and then I have a recent backup, and then when I get home try to just install macOS Sierra from my already created macOS Sierra bootable USB installer and see what happens with that. (Of course I'd re-run CCC right before doing that.)

I am hoping that in a few weeks I have some answers on my audio setup and can figure out how to make my audio and telephone work on my newer Macs and then it will be much easier to rebuild my old MBP.

 

[DeltaMac]

Ah, OK... 2012 is a nice one. Still sold by Apple as new until late 2016, IIRC. It's the last Mac sold with an internal DVD drive. Easy to upgrade to 16GB ram. And, you can replace the DVD with an SATA hard drive, so have two internal drives. It's a choice, eh?

Mountain Lion would be the system that 2012 originally shipped with.
If you still have a HDD, and not a SSD, I would suggest that El Capitan, or the older Yosemite would work better.
But, with an SSD as a best choice, the 2012 can upgrade to Catalina (10.15.7), although I have the opinion that Mojave is a better "fit" for that one. Lets you continue to use 32-bit apps, for example. The USB-3 ports make the use of external storage noticeably faster.(compared to 2011 Macs, which were still stuck with USB 2.

Sorry if my "system refresh" plan was a little confusing. You would not need to erase the original boot drive if you were swapping in the drive that you have backed up. You install that backed up drive, replacing the original boot drive. and THAT one then becomes your back up.
Yes, it would be my plan that the back up is NOT a pefect copy. I would expect that at least parts of the system software would be replaced with non-corrupted files -- and system caches would be cleaned up as part of the reinstall process. So, no, not an identical copy, but (I'm hoping) an improved copy.
An example of this: I did this install/migrate twice for a customer, who came in loaded with all kinds of "shopping malware/adware". The browser (Safari, I think) hardly worked, as EVERY link went through the same few sites, all re-directs. Left the system extremely slow, and the customer hardly had any software that was NOT affected in some way. I couldn't do anything without having nearly a full minute of the "spinning wheel". Click again, and more spinning wheel.
Just a single scan with Malwarebytes found more than 60 instances of "possible questionable programs" and multiple examples of known malware. Cleaning all that off, through Malwarebytes, made a big difference, but still not quite working smoothly.
I did that "backup, erase, reinstall, restore", and the improvement was amazing, and, in the end, "just a refresh" -- but it worked really well.

I think your plan should work OK. Let me know how it goes.

(You CAN buy macOS installers, preloaded on USB flash drives - I can't tell you anything about the sources, just that they are available. But, this seller does include a free "silver" necklace with every purchase! I'm pretty sure that makes it good Mac software )

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Ah, OK... 2012 is a nice one. Still sold by Apple as new until late 2016, IIRC. It's the last Mac sold with an internal DVD drive. Easy to upgrade to 16GB ram. And, you can replace the DVD with an SATA hard drive, so have two internal drives. It's a choice, eh?

I forgot about that option - thanks for the reminder!

Mountain Lion would be the system that 2012 originally shipped with.
If you still have a HDD, and not a SSD, I would suggest that El Capitan, or the older Yosemite would work better.
But, with an SSD as a best choice, the 2012 can upgrade to Catalina (10.15.7), although I have the opinion that Mojave is a better "fit" for that one. Lets you continue to use 32-bit apps, for example. The USB-3 ports make the use of external storage noticeably faster.(compared to 2011 Macs, which were still stuck with USB 2.

I forgot, but I have this for my drive: Samsung SSD 850 EVO 1TB Media

I think macOS Sierra would be a good starting point as long as I can jump that far forward?

(Based on your use-case earlier, it sounds really like what I'd be doing is NOT "updating" my OS in a traditional sense, but really rather REPLACING my OS and then MIGRATING my apps and data over and hopingthey work, right?)

Sorry if my "system refresh" plan was a little confusing. You would not need to erase the original boot drive if you were swapping in the drive that you have backed up. You install that backed up drive, replacing the original boot drive. and THAT one then becomes your back up.

It seems to me it is better to clone my existing old MBP to an external HDD, then use some bootable USB installer to install things on a 2nd external HDD, then migrate my apps and data from my old MBP to that 2nd drive, test the hell out of said 2nd HDD, and then IF it works okay after a few weeks, THEN erase my internal SSD and use CCC to clone my internal drive off of the new Frankenstein new OS/old apps+Data 2nd drive...

Yes, it would be my plan that the back up is NOT a pefect copy. I would expect that at least parts of the system software would be replaced with non-corrupted files -- and system caches would be cleaned up as part of the reinstall process. So, no, not an identical copy, but (I'm hoping) an improved copy.

Okay, but that isn't what you said... (I figured that is what you meant, though!) ;-)

An example of this: I did this install/migrate twice for a customer, who came in loaded with all kinds of "shopping malware/adware". The browser (Safari, I think) hardly worked, as EVERY link went through the same few sites, all re-directs. Left the system extremely slow, and the customer hardly had any software that was NOT affected in some way. I couldn't do anything without having nearly a full minute of the "spinning wheel". Click again, and more spinning wheel.
Just a single scan with Malwarebytes found more than 60 instances of "possible questionable programs" and multiple examples of known malware. Cleaning all that off, through Malwarebytes, made a big difference, but still not quite working smoothly.
I did that "backup, erase, reinstall, restore", and the improvement was amazing, and, in the end, "just a refresh" -- but it worked really well.

I'm not sure if I have every changed the OS on this, so I'm long overdue!

I think your plan should work OK. Let me know how it goes.

(You CAN buy macOS installers, preloaded on USB flash drives - I can't tell you anything about the sources, just that they are available. But, this seller does include a free "silver" necklace with every purchase! I'm pretty sure that makes it good Mac software )

*LMAO*

Well, hell, if I get a free silver necklace then I'm all in!!!


I do have two spare HDDs with me in the field, but my USB Sierra instalelr is back home.

Hopefully my VoIP doesn't die in the field, and I can tackle this when I get back home in a few weeks.

So to be clear, I guess there is no need for me to upgrade to anything other than at least macOS Sierra?

And I guess there is no need to build installer for Mavericks, Yosemite and El Capitan?

Can I even get any of those from Apple at this point?

 

[DeltaMac]

You can certainly get El Capitan or newer - Apple has direct links for any of those (except Sierra)

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

You can use a USB flash drive or other secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system. These steps are primarily for system administrators and other experienced users who are familiar with entering commands in Terminal.

support.apple.com

And, yes, you can get those older OS X installers from Apple, if you have recorded a purchase of that installer through the App Store. (I downloaded Mountain earlier today just the check on that) I don't know how to get it directly from Apple if you have not ever purchased it. (Purchased, in this sense, does not imply a payment, but a procurement, set up when you download the app. The App Store keeps track of that through the Purchased tab, even if it was a free download.

I keep archive copies of every installer from Tiger to Big Sur beta - but I have a part time Mac shop and work with a PC shop in the area who doesn't like working on Macs - so I help him out with a variety of repairs and software work on Macs. So, from month to month, I usually have my fingers in just about any Mac system you can imagine, sometimes back to classic OS 9. I haven't seen any older than that for probably 10 years.

Yes, if you don't need to install a system, there's no reason to have an installer for it.

 

[brianmowrey]

but my "old" MacBook Pro actually says it is a MacBook Pro, 13-inch, mid-2012.
//
All of this does look like a serious reminder that I need to retire my AT&T account. And my audio/telephony environments have been a nagging issue, but tehre are only so many hours in the day...

So you have been on my machine all along! You can cherry pick between El Capitan, High Sierra, Mojave, and Catalina via the App Store, but if your mid-2012 Snow Leopard App Store is no longer able to reply to the links in that guide, you might need to use a newer machine to create your chosen USB installer. Or, you could just use Option-Command-R to skip to Catalina. But on an original mid-2012 HDD, I would favor High Sierra or Mojave.

But even more, I would favor replacing the Superdrive with a second HD in caddy, leaving your original drive in Snow Leopard, and then porting your apps and files over to the new drive/OS as needed. Laborious but safe.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

You can certainly get El Capitan or newer - Apple has direct links for any of those (except Sierra)

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

You can use a USB flash drive or other secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system. These steps are primarily for system administrators and other experienced users who are familiar with entering commands in Terminal.

support.apple.com

I couldn't log in yesterday to my AppleID. Today I am logged in and it shows El Capitan.

Am trying to download it at the library using their dolalr but I cannot connect to their Wi-Fi which again probably points to my OS and browsers are too old?

I might have already downloaded this at home, but again, my digital life needs some serious house-keeping!

And, yes, you can get those older OS X installers from Apple, if you have recorded a purchase of that installer through the App Store. (I downloaded Mountain earlier today just the check on that) I don't know how to get it directly from Apple if you have not ever purchased it. (Purchased, in this sense, does not imply a payment, but a procurement, set up when you download the app. The App Store keeps track of that through the Purchased tab, even if it was a free download.

So I cannot get the Yosemite and Mavericks full-installers, right? (My old MBP has Mountain Lion on it.)

I keep archive copies of every installer from Tiger to Big Sur beta - but I have a part time Mac shop and work with a PC shop in the area who doesn't like working on Macs - so I help him out with a variety of repairs and software work on Macs. So, from month to month, I usually have my fingers in just about any Mac system you can imagine, sometimes back to classic OS 9. I haven't seen any older than that for probably 10 years.

Yes, if you don't need to install a system, there's no reason to have an installer for it.

I guess I probably don't need Mavericks or Yosemite or probably even El Capitan since I'm not doing computer repairs like you, but it never hurts to have copies just in case.

I do believe that I created bootable USB instalelrs for High Sierra and Mojave at home, but I have to try and find them.

And moving forward, with each new release I plan on always having both a bootable USB installer and a copy of the full-instalelr on a separate HDD.