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First DSLR - Minefield.
- Thread starter crm297
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Well I recently paid $100 (AU) for the mirrorless for my boy and he gets professional quality shots too! With no need to borrow my lenses!
I picked up a Nikon D7000 as my first DSLR and they are fantastic camera's.
There is alot to learn and I'm still learning... Can't tell you which Camera to buy - there are plenty out there, depending on budget. I'm always of the opinion of Buy once Cry once....
Get something decent that you can build on - that has room built in for you to grow. If you are serious about photography - get a nice middle of the road model as I did - then save up for good lenses.... You'll learn soon enough that lenses make the camera, and most importantly whos in the driver seat...
I just picked up that f2.8 70-200 and Its a fantastic lens. I look forward to many years of shots to come from the investment...
Also heres a good fun little site that will allow you to learn the basics and get out of Auto mode to get the best out of your camera... All DLSR's have the same modes - so that will apply to Nikon or Canon etc etc...
http://www.canonoutsideofauto.ca/play/
Good luck on the journey into photography
There is alot to learn and I'm still learning... Can't tell you which Camera to buy - there are plenty out there, depending on budget. I'm always of the opinion of Buy once Cry once....
Get something decent that you can build on - that has room built in for you to grow. If you are serious about photography - get a nice middle of the road model as I did - then save up for good lenses.... You'll learn soon enough that lenses make the camera, and most importantly whos in the driver seat...
I just picked up that f2.8 70-200 and Its a fantastic lens. I look forward to many years of shots to come from the investment...
Also heres a good fun little site that will allow you to learn the basics and get out of Auto mode to get the best out of your camera... All DLSR's have the same modes - so that will apply to Nikon or Canon etc etc...
http://www.canonoutsideofauto.ca/play/
Good luck on the journey into photography
24mm is not really wide enough it this is your only lens. Well it will work well enough for "people pictures" where 24 is about as wide as yo would ever go. But for general photography 18mm is what you want.
Nikon's 18-55 "VR" lens is actually very good. Yes it is an f/5.6 lens but for what t is, it's good.
Depends a lot on your vision- I find that on full frame, I rarely go wider than 35mm in a single frame, as for the shots I'm shooting wide, there's too much sky or water in the frame. If I shot in NYC a lot, I might want wider, but even there the loss of detail in a wider shot really doesn't match my vision. I find even on an APS-C body my 10-20mm gets almost no usage and on either body my 20-35mm gets very infrequent usage. Most of my wide angle shots are landscapes though, and unless there's water and wind, I'm much, much more likely to stitch 6-20 50mm or 60mm shots than to shoot a wider lens.
Paul
Yes, it can be intimidating, specially if we recommend a specific camera and lenses for you to buy. Since no camera or brand is what makes you a good photographer, I will refrain from telling you which one to buy. Instead I will tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes:
Once you buy a camera and start taking photos with it, you will realize that some times you wished to have another lens or two. So don't believe for a moment that you will limit your lens collection to one or two
Think of camera bodies as being replaceable within a very few short period of time, but not so when it comes to high quality lenses. High quality lenses hold their value well for years, and it's not rare to sell one of such lenses three or four years later for about the same price or similar to what you would pay today.
For that reason alone I would recommend that you look at the best and usually more expensive lenses from both Canon and Nikon, and decide what brand and model of camera you want to buy, after. And don't settle for the cheap Canon and Nikon lenses.
I shoot Canon, but again I am going to refrain for getting into the Canon versus Nikon war. Even so, and after going through the same dilemma, I sincerely hope that I have been of help.
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Whichever make you go for, try and visit a real camera shop. In London I would recommend Camera World which is just off Oxford Street, WEX in Norwich is also good as is Park Cameras. I haven't bought anything from Mifsuds but I know someone who has and they seemed happy with the lens and the service. All of them are real shops where you can handle the camera that you are considering buying. They also have a second hand department. You can see if it feels right in your hand. See if you like how the menus are set up etc. etc. Try to find a make that feels right to you. If you have friends with DSLRs, ask if you can you theirs for an hour or so. It may cost you a drink but longer use my help you make a choice. I bought a Canon and now would need very good reasons and a lot of money to swap as I have invested in a lot of glass. Luckily I am happy with my choice. I do take my DSLR out and about. I quite like the weight. Only if I think somewhere might be a little dodgy do I take my P&S (I can't run that fast!). Try a few before buying and that will help. Good luck with your choice.
I disagree, with the caveat that any camera involves compromises; you just have to decide which features are most important to you, and which compromises you can live with.
I was in a similar situation to the OP. I've been using digital point-and-shoots and, most recently, my iPhone's camera, since 2001. However, in the 1980s and 1990s, I had a Minolta Maxxum 35 mm SLR, several lenses, and a flash, which I'd lug aroung in a backpack. I loved my rig, but I got tired of the bulk and weight, so I switched to digital point-and-shoots when they became affordable. Earlier this year, I became interested in more serious photography again, and I decided to buy a mid-range interchangeable-lens camera. I was leaning toward a DSLR-size Sony SLT-A65, because I could use my old Minolta Maxxum lenses with it, but then I remembered why I stopped using my Maxxum in the first place. I didn't want to start lugging around a heavy backpack again.
After reading many, many reviews, I decided that a mirrorless APS-C or Micro Four Thirds camera was right for me. I ended up getting a Sony NEX 6, which offered the best bang for the buck in terms of still-image quality, video quality, and features. It's well built. It's small: with the kit lens, it fits in a jacket pocket. It uses the same APS-C sensor as the Nikon D7000. It doesn't have an optical viewfinder but it does have an excellent electronic viewfinder, which many people (not all) prefer to an optical viewfinder. The advantages are that you can see depth of field, effects, and exposure setting in real time, and other useful information is displayed. An optical viewfinder won't let you do that.
By all accounts, the Nikon D7000 is an outstanding camera. The image quality slightly beats the NEX 6's at some settings. Battery life is better. You have more controls on the camera, because the camera is bigger. The NEX 6 is better at video, though, if that's important to you. Still image quality is great. The electronic viewfinder might be better (again, it's a matter of opinion.) And don't underestimate the advantage of a smaller, lighter camera.
I'm not alone in my belief that mirrorless cameras are the future. The Olympus OMD EM-1 (a Micro Four Thirds camera) is getting raves as perhaps the best non-full-frame camera currently available. It would have cost me an extra grand, though, which I couldn't afford. And the about-to-be-released Sony A7 and A7R full-frame mirrorless cameras are also getting raves from early reviewers. They're smaller, lighter, and less expensive than full-frame DSLR competitors. Time will tell how they behave in real-life use, but more are sure to follow from Sony and from other brands.
In short, check out some different cameras, and see which you like best. You'll find very opinionated people on forums who will tell you that one brand or format rules, and the rest are crap. Pretty much any decent digital camera
these days will allow you to take great shots. Pick something that you like, start taking pictures, and learn about photography. If you outgrow it at some point, you can always upgrade. Good luck to you!
The thing is that you're basically saying that since the majority of people prefer to go for a more compact easier to carry camera than a camera that produces better images.
Of course you're 100% right about that. It was true 40 years ago with $20 rangefinders vs a Nikon F2, and it's just as true today. It doesn't matter if 1000 people buy a mirrorless for every SLR, the SLR still produces better images out of the box and is more flexible for more advanced users, and there have been no indications that will change.
I agree that most people don't care if their snapshots are well exposed or technically good, so for the majority these mirrorless toys will be more popular.
For people who put image quality first though, SLRs still are far, far superior. And based on the OP's question, if they went mirrorless, it would be a mistake for them.
I also took the mirror less approach with a NEX-5R. Small enough to take anywhere a pocket camera can go yet the same image quality as any APS-C DLSR.
Not so sure about this statement. My view is that the most recent mirrorless cameras are just as good as a DSLR, and some better. I've been looking at the Fujifilm X-pro, and the technology behind their sensor creates some astoundingly crisp photos with excellent colour reproduction. Better than my 650D for sure. What have you seen that has made you think otherwise?
Alex
I owned a Canon 350D as my first camera... a great bit of kit (and very cheap), allowed me to learn all the controls before upgrading to a 700D recently.
The X-pro is around $1300 iirc and I'd be surprised if it couldn't outperform a D3200 or older gen bodies (D90, D300s). (I'm more a Nikon person than Canon)
I'm looking at a D800 or 5d3 which is far better than those mirrorless ones. By the time mirrorless catches up, the SLRs will be that much farther ahead. You have more space in an SLR it's just easier to make a better camera given the same tech level.
But it's not just the raw tech where the SLRs win. It's easier to compose a picture with a proper viewfinder than on an LCD, and the grip is more natural. Just look at the huge swivel grips some pros use; the camera feel is very much a part of the final image.
No, that's not what I'm saying. See below.
I have no doubt you can point me to unfavorable reviews of individual mirrorless cameras, but the technology has been improving rapidly. Have you read any recent in-depth professional reviews of such mirrorless cameras as the Sony NEX 6 and 7 (APS-C) and the Olympus OMD EM-1 (Micro Four Thirds), as well as advance reviews of the Sony A7 and A7R (full frame)? I spent months researching cameras before I settled on an NEX 6. I can't recall a single review claiming that DSLRs are "far, far superior" (or even moderately superior) in terms of image quality to mirrorless cameras using the same sensors and high-quality lenses. Different manufacturers are better at different aspects of IQ, much of which relates to how they handle their JPEG processing for people who don't shoot RAW. Nikon's DSLRS and Olympus's mirrorless OMD EM-1 seem to have a slight edge in still-photo IQ, and Sony's NEX cameras have better video quality. Other brands of both DSLR and mirrorless cameras have their proponents, too.
If I'd read that comparably priced DSLRs provide even moderately better IQ than their mirrorless counterparts, then I would have gotten a DSLR, because IQ is very important to me. The trade-offs are about features: whether you prefer an optical or an electronic viewfinder (each has its pros and cons I like the real-time preview and additional information shown in Sony's EVF), whether you want more control knobs and buttons (a DSLR, being bigger, has more room for controls, which cuts down on confusing menus), what size feels most comfortable to you (some people prefer a larger camera body, but most probably prefer a smaller body, if it's designed ergonomically), and how much you care about the weight and bulk of the camera, lenses, and flash units you carry around (all other things being equal, most people prefer lighter). In my case, the Sony NEX 6 gets excellent reviews for IQ, is among the best digital cameras when it comes to video, is light and compact, will take my old Minolta Maxxum lenses with an adapter (which defeats the size-and-weight advantage, but could be useful in some cases), and is several hundred dollars cheaper than the mirrorless or DSLR cameras rated slightly higher in IQ.
My advice for what it's worth:
1. Go and have a look at some photography forums. Whilst some of the advice here is perfectly good, you probably wouldn't buy a Mac based on suggestions in a photography forum? Talkphotography is pretty good
2. Go into a camera store and have a play with a few DSLR bodies. Get a feel for what size feels comfortable and what controls feel the most intuitive. When all is said and done, and especially at the entry level, there isn't much to choose between different manufacturers.
3. Once you've got an idea of what you'd prefer, have a look at 2nd hand prices. Camera gear is pretty reliable, and buying 2nd hand means you'll be able to afford a much better lens than you would otherwise new.
4. Lens, or in tog speak 'glass', will probably end up costing you more than the body, especially if you get the bug. Unless your making a living from it, chances are you'll only need 1 body. To get the most out of it though, you'll need a number of lens.
5. Once you've bought into a make, many of the lenses will work on other bodies from the same manufacturer, so switching bodies isn't too expensive. After you've bought lots of lenses though, switching make can be very expensive so take point 2 above very seriously.
I have a love-hate relationship with my Canon 5Dmk2. It can take some fantastic pictures, but is pretty heavy to carry around all day and probably take my Canon EOS-M out with me just as often. Although not up to the 5D standards, it does a pretty decent job and is pocketable making it much easier to manage when I also have a daughter to worry about. I was probably one of the mirrorless snobs, but can see the value in them now so wouldn't discount during step 2.
Good luck...
[doublepost=1461782287][/doublepost]Haha, neither did I
[doublepost=1461782317][/doublepost]I wonder what they ended up buying....
1. Go and have a look at some photography forums. Whilst some of the advice here is perfectly good, you probably wouldn't buy a Mac based on suggestions in a photography forum? Talkphotography is pretty good
2. Go into a camera store and have a play with a few DSLR bodies. Get a feel for what size feels comfortable and what controls feel the most intuitive. When all is said and done, and especially at the entry level, there isn't much to choose between different manufacturers.
3. Once you've got an idea of what you'd prefer, have a look at 2nd hand prices. Camera gear is pretty reliable, and buying 2nd hand means you'll be able to afford a much better lens than you would otherwise new.
4. Lens, or in tog speak 'glass', will probably end up costing you more than the body, especially if you get the bug. Unless your making a living from it, chances are you'll only need 1 body. To get the most out of it though, you'll need a number of lens.
5. Once you've bought into a make, many of the lenses will work on other bodies from the same manufacturer, so switching bodies isn't too expensive. After you've bought lots of lenses though, switching make can be very expensive so take point 2 above very seriously.
I have a love-hate relationship with my Canon 5Dmk2. It can take some fantastic pictures, but is pretty heavy to carry around all day and probably take my Canon EOS-M out with me just as often. Although not up to the 5D standards, it does a pretty decent job and is pocketable making it much easier to manage when I also have a daughter to worry about. I was probably one of the mirrorless snobs, but can see the value in them now so wouldn't discount during step 2.
Good luck...
[doublepost=1461782287][/doublepost]Haha, neither did I
[doublepost=1461782317][/doublepost]I wonder what they ended up buying....