Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[BigMcGuire]

That is about 3 months since I made my last attempt at switching off my macOS devices and I am in a similar place as you, I use Windows predominately now. I turn to my MacBook only when I need something portable.

Very happy now on Windows, they all have their place and opinions vary of course but I choose what works best and that is not just Windows, but the hardware too.

I will get an ARM laptop if the thermals are better, battery longer and Apple don't completely screw it up. That seems to be the sweet spot for me these days. PC for most of what I do, MacBook for when I need portability or a task that I would get more out of on macOS.

Same here. I'm using my AMD desktop primarily now and my MacBook Pro sits off the side. Helps that most people I know, including my work - use iMessage so I have to have my iPad up or my MBP up at all times to answer texts.

But I game a handful of times throughout the week and switching between my MBP and my desktop with my one monitor got old REALLY fast. I want to give away or sell my MBP but I know the instant I do I'd want another one.

There is no perfect device. I'm resigned to using a handful of them as tools. A toolbox does not have one tool to be effective, it has a variety because when you need that one tool you haven't used in forever, you're up a stream without a...

I spend enough $ on iPhone and iPad Pros, I don't see myself tossing $ at another MBP again. Maybe a low end Air when on sale at Costco?

My $1500 AMD Desktop is still screaming, Windows 10 is acceptable, and with the ability to upgrade, I see 5-10 years of usage as something easily done. However, the moment they call us back to the office... my view on that will change, but I have pretty much decided to keep the desktop.

I took it apart after a handful of months of ownership and found that the case has dust screens and .... they were almost completely impacted. Ooops! Didn't even know the case had them, lol. Guess I'm going to be dusting every few months.

 

[pshufd]

After reflecting very much on it on my own, I have concluded that that "simple", perfect, "pure" device, does not exist. It's just marketing. We need to live with the real world, with machines which are mass produced to be outdated fast, to fail and be replaced rather than be appreciated and have a lasting meaning. Sure, a Mac is beautiful on the outside, so simple, so clean, so pretty. But when you need to replace the whole top case if a key breaks then...is it so nice? Is it worth it? I guess my priorities and ideals changed over the years.
And future devices, that now look amazing, will eventually have different problems to deal with.

One thing that I missed from macOS was screen clips with shift-alt-4. The Windows procedure was rather cumbersome. So I wrote a script so that I could do screen capture with a similar minimum of clicks. My procedure is that I hit the Print Screen key (so one key instead of three on macOS), then select the region, then click a button and my screen capture is on the desktop with a filename that indicates the date and time.

The ability to customize then environment can improve things considerably and I think that macOS and Windows are both excellent in this area.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

One thing that I missed from macOS was screen clips with shift-alt-4. The Windows procedure was rather cumbersome. So I wrote a script so that I could do screen capture with a similar minimum of clicks. My procedure is that I hit the Print Screen key (so one key instead of three on macOS), then select the region, then click a button and my screen capture is on the desktop with a filename that indicates the date and time.

The ability to customize then environment can improve things considerably and I think that macOS and Windows are both excellent in this area.

Aren’t you able to use Shift-WinKey-S in WIndows? It works the exact same way for me? You might need to open OneNote once, although maybe not.

 

[pshufd]

Aren’t you able to use Shift-WinKey-S in WIndows? It works the exact same way for me? You might need to open OneNote once, although maybe not.

You need several additional clicks to use the built-in Windows solution. I wanted a really fast workflow like macOS.

 

[Thunderbird]

I was in the same boat as the OP about ten years ago. I just couldn't make up my mind. Bought an iMac, used it for a few years then switched back to a PC.

Now I am considering switching back to Mac.

However, if I do decide to switch to a Mac again, I would still be using Windows on a Mac a lot (in fact, probably using Windows 80% of the time, but I don't game) there are a couple of things I am concerned about if I switch back:

1). Display: when using Windows on an iMac via VM (or Bootcamp), is it any better or worse than using a PC natively with a PC monitor?

2) External devices: I have a printer and two scanners. I am worried about compatibility issues with external devices on Macs, and would prefer to connect devices to a Windows platform. Could I connect external devices to an iMac using Windows based drivers in a virtual Windows environment like Parallels? Or would I have to use Bootcamp? Or can you only use Mac drivers with Mac hardware?

 

[LeeW]

Now I am considering switching back to Mac.

I wouldn't often say it but you are probably better waiting to see how ARM plays out. If you are going to have a reliance on Windows then we don't really know how that is going to play out on ARM. Bootcamp is gone that is for sure. So the only likely option is something like Parallels or other VM.

Sure if you buy an iMac now then it will keep you going for many years and you will have Bootcamp and so on, but is that the best move knowing you are restricted in the future?

That said, in answer to your questions.

1) Not that much different, performance is fine. You are running Windows on a Mac, there will be the odd issue of course but its nothing to worry about.

2) Using Parallels is likely the best option here. Bottom line, you are more likely to have compatibility issues than not, drivers for Mac are never well supported but you should be able to tell before you commit to a purchase and figure it out from there.

 

[LiE_]

I have a 2020 27" iMac arriving today (https://www.theedustore.co.uk/mac/i...e-i5-processor-512gb-and-free-4-year-warranty), despite saying I would wait until September. There were some factors that helped me make the decision.

1) I want a big screen, so even if Apple release a refreshed 24" iMac later this year, as much as I'm sure it will be amazing, the screen size won't work for me.

2) Value. I have access to student discount and via theEDUstore I was able to buy the mid spec iMac for £1591 delivered with a 4 year warranty. For comparison the same iMac is £1799 via Apple education store with 1 year warranty (£1999 normal price). Student discount will end next summer. RAM upgrade is good value, adding another 16GB for £68.

I think for the price it's really good value. The screen from past experience is exceptional and the specs are really strong for what I use it for.

3) My mind set has changed. After all this back and forth I have learnt that I need to compromise at some point, there is no perfect device. I am now looking at the hardware purchase as a tool, if it does the job then it is a fit. I'm tired of getting hyper focused on the nuances between devices and their minor flaws.

4) I don't want to get onboard with Apple silicon on day 1, I think it will be a better transition in 3-4 years time.

5) The refreshed 2020 iMac is actually a very good device. The dated design aside, it has some really nice improvements.

 

[LeeW]

Nothing wrong with the current iMac, the refresh is decent and yes it's an old design, but that old design still works, it's tried and tested. Like you say, it's a tool and ARM is not going to stop the 100m or so macOS devices out there stop working.

All I would say and of this I am sure of. If the switch to ARM works as expected and I believe it will. Apple will start shifting focus quickly. You will start seeing features in ARM macOS that won't get into intel macOS. They will start using ARM to push people into converting and not putting features into older Macs is Apples MO.

In 18 months, the secondary market for intel Macs will mean you are not going to sell them as easily as you can today. Once the general consumer who cares little about ARM today realises the change, they will either not want an intel device or be trying to sell one to buy ARM. The market will be awash with devices few want.

 

[pshufd]

Nothing wrong with the current iMac, the refresh is decent and yes it's an old design, but that old design still works, it's tried and tested. Like you say, it's a tool and ARM is not going to stop the 100m or so macOS devices out there stop working.

All I would say and of this I am sure of. If the switch to ARM works as expected and I believe it will. Apple will start shifting focus quickly. You will start seeing features in ARM macOS that won't get into intel macOS. They will start using ARM to push people into converting and not putting features into older Macs is Apples MO.

In 18 months, the secondary market for intel Macs will mean you are not going to sell them as easily as you can today. Once the general consumer who cares little about ARM today realises the change, they will either not want an intel device or be trying to sell one to buy ARM. The market will be awash with devices few want.

I agree and I am not buying any hardware until I see Apple's ARM products.

But I am going to buy a Synergy license today which should improve usability. Synergy is KM (Keyboard-Mouse) software so that you can control more than one computer with one Keyboard/Mouse set. So I can use my Mac and PC seamlessly. I just move the mouse cursor from one monitor to the next and focus changes. At the moment, I switch Keyboard/Mouse sets on my desk to use the appropriate computer, and, lately, I've been using Windows far more than macOS. With Synergy, I can use both of them with ease.

I may continue to use this even after getting Apple Silicon systems. If Apple Silicon is as good as I'm hoping for, then I'm thinking of Mac Mini + MacBook Pro and would sell my one of my notebooks until all of the Apps that I use are supported on Apple Silicon and then would sell the other. I might continue to use the Windows PC too. I might also just do a new Windows build as well - but I don't know yet. Apple Silicon has frozen hardware purchases for me - part of this is because I have so much old hardware that continues to work just fine.

 

[LeeW]

Overall I am very comfortable with Windows as my main device then having a MacBook simply for out and about portability and it's useful for some things macOS just does better. I could easily do without macOS entirely now but it's a really good mix so when the new ARM devices come along I will jump in as my use case means I don't need to worry about what it can't do.

 

[kazmac]

I have a 2020 27" iMac arriving today (https://www.theedustore.co.uk/mac/i...e-i5-processor-512gb-and-free-4-year-warranty), despite saying I would wait until September. There were some factors that helped me make the decision.

1) I want a big screen, so even if Apple release a refreshed 24" iMac later this year, as much as I'm sure it will be amazing, the screen size won't work for me.

2) Value. I have access to student discount and via theEDUstore I was able to buy the mid spec iMac for £1591 delivered with a 4 year warranty. For comparison the same iMac is £1799 via Apple education store with 1 year warranty (£1999 normal price). Student discount will end next summer. RAM upgrade is good value, adding another 16GB for £68.

I think for the price it's really good value. The screen from past experience is exceptional and the specs are really strong for what I use it for.

3) My mind set has changed. After all this back and forth I have learnt that I need to compromise at some point, there is no perfect device. I am now looking at the hardware purchase as a tool, if it does the job then it is a fit. I'm tired of getting hyper focused on the nuances between devices and their minor flaws.

4) I don't want to get onboard with Apple silicon on day 1, I think it will be a better transition in 3-4 years time.

5) The refreshed 2020 iMac is actually a very good device. The dated design aside, it has some really nice improvements.

Good points. Congrats on the new iMac.

After trying to leave, I realized 1) Yup, just use what you know works. 2) Was feeling pressure to get a PC for this job which I am not sure I will even have and they won't pay for it. So as long as I can remote into my work PC, problem solved. 3) I am going to wait: Affinity, Office and Apple's software will be probably make the transition without using Rosetta 2. And, I injured muscles in my upper body after fracturing my left arm, so cannot wrangle another 27" iMac. Need something smaller and lighter (preferably a desktop, either 24" iMac or Mac Mini) since the regular iPad seems to be fine for my hobbies.

 

[pshufd]

Tomorrow is my last day of employment (I've been working straight for 47 years) and I'm doing a rethink of my systems. I am giving one of my 2008 Windows Desktops to one of the security guards as I can't think of anything to do with it and I've offered it to my family members and nobody is interested. I have another which is my daily driver along with two MacBook Pro 15s (2014 and 2015).

The 2014 MacBook Pro is used for backing up all of my iOS devices and I'm going to move my music and video libraries to iTunes on Windows. I added a Crucial 2 TB SSD to the Windows desktop for $200 (scary to think what that would cost on the MacBook Pros) and could add another one if need be. It would free up a lot of space on the MacBook Pro. I would need to find a backup solution for the Windows Desktop for iTunes and the iOS devices. I think that I would just go for static copies once a month. I have a 4 TB WD backup drive for macOS systems and an 8 TB WD backup drive for macOS and Windows.

I plan to move my email archives to the Windows desktop though I might move it back to one of the MacBook Pros or just keep two copies. I had to install the workplace security suite on my laptops to use them on the Corporate Network and the only way to remove it is to reformat and clean install so those are projects in the near future.

I think that this reset would make best use of the hardware that I have for now. I have no need for new or additional hardware at this time though I'd, of course, like newer stuff.

I don't think that I would have considered doing this if Apple weren't such a pain on hardware. This thread and a few others convinced me to make the original move and I've been migrating more and more to Windows. I will be using a hybrid environment though as I have three monitors on my desk and the Windows desktop will only drive one of them.

 

[LiE_]

Nothing wrong with the current iMac

I'm really struggling with the fan noise right now. The iMac is fantastic, but the fan constantly going away at 1200rpm is irritating me more than I know it should. I should be able to lower it to 950rpm but it looks like the T2 chip has put an end to that little work around.

 

[Expos of 1969]

I'm really struggling with the fan noise right now. The iMac is fantastic, but the fan constantly going away at 1200rpm is irritating me more than I know it should. I should be able to lower it to 950rpm but it looks like the T2 chip has put an end to that little work around.

Maybe your brother would like an iMac to complement his recently acquired custom built pc?

 

[LiE_]

Maybe your brother would like an iMac to complement his recently acquired custom built pc?

He's firmly in the PC camp

I'm still within 14 days with the iMac so it's not an issue to return, should be hassle free.

As a workaround I'm currently making sure I always play music at my desk..

 

[LeeW]

The iMac is fantastic, but the fan constantly going away at 1200rpm

I am sure that has been the base speed for the iMac has been 1200rpm for a while, certainly been an increase in noise levels over the last couple of upgrades, low 20s to high 20s in terms of db, but it shouldn't be that noticeable unless you have a particularly quiet ambient noise level.

 

[LiE_]

I am sure that has been the base speed for the iMac has been 1200rpm for a while, certainly been an increase in noise levels over the last couple of upgrades, low 20s to high 20s in terms of db, but it shouldn't be that noticeable unless you have a particularly quiet ambient noise level.

You were able to lower it in the 2019 but seems you cannot in the 2020.

Once you hear it and pick up on it, it's very hard to ignore. It isn't as quiet as you'd expect, 1200rpm is quite fast! In my custom PCs I'd run fans around 500-600rpm unless in games then they would be at 1000-1500rpm.

 

[Expos of 1969]

You were able to lower it in the 2019 but seems you cannot in the 2020.

Once you hear it and pick up on it, it's very hard to ignore. It isn't as quiet as you'd expect, 1200rpm is quite fast! In my custom PCs I'd run fans around 500-600rpm unless in games then they would be at 1000-1500rpm.

The fan noise on my recently sold Macbook Pro 2013 was really loud. Perhaps due to age or dust or maybe it was that way from the beginning. Great machine otherwise.

 

[pshufd]

I've been mainly using my 2008 Dell XPS Studio and there are times when it uses 70% or more CPU and the fan spins up. It's driving one 4K monitor (it can only drive one) but the monitor is sitting next to another 4K and QHD hooked up to my 2015 MacBook Pro 15. I have been meaning to integrate the 2015 into my desktop system but I had to reinstall Mojave to get rid of the security software from my previous employer. So I did that today and am about 60% through the migration. I plan to move a bunch of applications from the 2014 MacBook Pro 15 onto this machine and I will have to reformat and reinstall Mojave on that laptop for the same reason.

I was running TD Ameritrade Think or Swim and Fidelity Active Trader Pro on the Windows desktop in separate virtual desktops but I plan to run Think or Swim on the Windows desktop and Fidelity Active Trader Pro on the QHD monitor hooked up to the MacBook Pro. That will leave me with the 4K monitor on the MacBook Pro to run web browser, email, etc.

The processor on the MacBook Pro has 80% more single-core compute and 50% more multi-core so things will run faster with more capacity on the MacBook Pro, but I will still partition the workload.

One big problem that I wanted to solve was having to switch back and forth on keyboard-mouse sets from one system to another. I found the free version of Synergy which is a KM software management solution. I installed it on macOS in server mode and on Windows in client mode. The systems found each other and I am now able to control both systems with one keyboard-mouse set. When the mouse cursor goes to the left of the 4K monitor attached to the MacBook Pro, it's controlling the Windows system. When it moves back, then control returns to the macOS system. I'm rather eager to try this out for the trading day tomorrow.

In an ideal world, Apple would make a Mac Mini Tower that allowed easy expansion of RAM and GPUs and I'd be able to run all three monitors. But alas, I'd have to get a Mac Pro to do what I want to do with good thermals. So I will be back to using the nice macOS UI while still partitioning my workload on Windows and Mac. So I'm back to using both for now. The 2014 MacBook Pro might turn into a floater around the house when I want to type a lot.

 

[LiE_]

I did return the iMac in the end, the fan noise just isn't something I was happy with.

The screen on the 5K iMac is sooo good, when editing photos it's a joy. The 24" ARM iMac is the machine that I'm keeping an eye on the most.

 

[retta283]

I did return the iMac in the end, the fan noise just isn't something I was happy with.

The screen on the 5K iMac is sooo good, when editing photos it's a joy. The 24" ARM iMac is the machine that I'm keeping an eye on the most.

The gap between 24" and 27" is not that large if they switch to 16:10 aspect ratio. 27" is slightly taller and about 2 inches wider IIRC. To me, switching between 24" 16:10 and 27 16:9 I don't really notice much difference. However I am sure they will have either a 30" or 32" to replace the 27".

For now I have ordered the new 27" with mid tier upgrades. I want the last Intel iMac, so here it is. I will be watchful of the new ARM machines, however. 24" is still acceptable screen size but a 32" would be very tempting. Have to convince myself and my wallet that the larger screen is worthwhile, because I can see there being a $500+ gap in price...

 

[pshufd]

Finally started assembling my PC. One thing of note: cases are not what they used to be. My 2008 and 2010 cases were rigid aluminum and the new stuff feels like fairly flimsy steel. My guess is that it's strong enough but the old cases used to be a lot stronger. I guess cost reduction is everywhere. I assembled the motherboard and put it into the case. Tomorrow I install the PSU and hook everything up. I'm going to run it off integrated video before installing the graphics card. I hope everything works out.

A Mac Pro is still an option if I'm not happy with it.

 

[russell_314]

Finally started assembling my PC. One thing of note: cases are not what they used to be. My 2008 and 2010 cases were rigid aluminum and the new stuff feels like fairly flimsy steel. My guess is that it's strong enough but the old cases used to be a lot stronger. I guess cost reduction is everywhere. I assembled the motherboard and put it into the case. Tomorrow I install the PSU and hook everything up. I'm going to run it off integrated video before installing the graphics card. I hope everything works out.

A Mac Pro is still an option if I'm not happy with it.

I remember my old aluminum Lian Li case. Now it’s all about the clear window and RGB 🤦‍♂️😂

 

[vinegarshots]

Finally started assembling my PC. One thing of note: cases are not what they used to be. My 2008 and 2010 cases were rigid aluminum and the new stuff feels like fairly flimsy steel. My guess is that it's strong enough but the old cases used to be a lot stronger. I guess cost reduction is everywhere. I assembled the motherboard and put it into the case. Tomorrow I install the PSU and hook everything up. I'm going to run it off integrated video before installing the graphics card. I hope everything works out.

A Mac Pro is still an option if I'm not happy with it.

You can get better built PC cases, but you have to pay a premium for them

 

[LiE_]

A lot of the boutique ITX cases are CNC aluminium.