Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[pshufd]

I have the scheduling bandwidth to visit my local Microcenter this weekend. I'm re-considering upgrading my 3700X. Microcenter has the 5800X for 200, and the 5800X3D for 350. Asking Chatgpt, it tells me that the 5800X makes more sense, where as Claude tells me the 5800X3D. Gotta love AI, lol The explanation in Claude makes more sense then what ChatGPT offered. Ch

From my research, the games I play (mostly RPG) the 3700x is largely the bottleneck and the 5800X3D makes sense. A fly in the ointment (something AI didn't mentioned) is that for Bethesda based games, particularly for the older games frame rates are largely capped, for instance you cannot easily get beyond 60fps from Fallout 76, regardless of your setup.

With that said, the 5800X3D draws less power and is cooler running then the 5800X. I think overall, while its a bit more (quite a bit) money, the 5800X3D seems to make more sense to give me AM4 setup a longer life span and not be as loud/hot as the 5800X

View attachment 2642475

I looked at X3D vs not for my usage case and the non-X3D would make more sense for me but X3D seems to be the holy grail for gaming. It will also have other benefits for other purposes. I didn't realize the price difference was so large.

Are there chips like the 7 series that would work as you'd have power savings from a smaller process geometry?

 

[maflynn]

Are there chips like the 7 series that would work as you'd have power savings from a smaller process geometry?

I think my hands are largely tied given that I'm on AM4, and have no plans on upgrading. I can justify a few hundred dollars, I cannot justify adding a comma to the cost of upgrading to AM5 based products

 

[pshufd]

I think my hands are largely tied given that I'm on AM4, and have no plans on upgrading. I can justify a few hundred dollars, I cannot justify adding a comma to the cost of upgrading to AM5 based products

The comma is only recent. Before the recent price hikes, you could go AM5 for under $500. An example would be 9700X, MB and 32 GB of RAM.

 

[diamond.g]

I have the scheduling bandwidth to visit my local Microcenter this weekend. I'm re-considering upgrading my 3700X. Microcenter has the 5800X for 200, and the 5800X3D for 350. Asking Chatgpt, it tells me that the 5800X makes more sense, where as Claude tells me the 5800X3D. Gotta love AI, lol The explanation in Claude makes more sense then what ChatGPT offered. Ch

From my research, the games I play (mostly RPG) the 3700x is largely the bottleneck and the 5800X3D makes sense. A fly in the ointment (something AI didn't mentioned) is that for Bethesda based games, particularly for the older games frame rates are largely capped, for instance you cannot easily get beyond 60fps from Fallout 76, regardless of your setup.

With that said, the 5800X3D draws less power and is cooler running then the 5800X. I think overall, while its a bit more (quite a bit) money, the 5800X3D seems to make more sense to give me AM4 setup a longer life span and not be as loud/hot as the 5800X

View attachment 2642475

For the same 350...

https://www.microcenter.com/product/5007384/amd-ryzen-5-7500x3d,-asrock-b850m-c-am5,-gskill-flare-x5-series-16gb-ddr5-6000,-computer-build-bundle

though only coming with 16GB of ram could be an issue depending on how much you have now.

 

[maflynn]

For the same 350...
...
though only coming with 16GB of ram could be an issue depending on how much you have now.

LOL,
I'll have to look at the bundles more closely. I'm not a fan of asrock, and 16GB is a bit on the low end for me. I'll have to see if this sort of makes sense.

There's is gigabyte bundle in the 400 range - here's the thing, I start off at 200 (5800x), move up to the 5800x3d, now I'm looking at 350. The bundle does interest me, but not the asrock, now I'm looking to spend in the 400 range. Do I then upgrade my PSU? case, etc? I could see myself spend way more then I initially intended, lol

My case uses a Mini-itx motherboard so that largely hurts me.

 

[diamond.g]

View attachment 2642490

LOL,
I'll have to look at the bundles more closely. I'm not a fan of asrock, and 16GB is a bit on the low end for me. I'll have to see if this sort of makes sense.

There's is gigabyte bundle in the 400 range - here's the thing, I start off at 200 (5800x), move up to the 5800x3d, now I'm looking at 350. The bundle does interest me, but not the asrock, now I'm looking to spend in the 400 range. Do I then upgrade my PSU? case, etc? I could see myself spend way more then I initially intended, lol

My case uses a Mini-itx motherboard so that largely hurts me.

Oh you in the mITX club (welcome) and yeah none of these bundles apply, lol. But that is the burden we must bare when wanting SFF.... (or at least that is what I tell myself and my wife).

 

[Steve Adams]

I would just go with the X3D and call er a day. It give's you a bit of headroom in processing and it's not "THAT" much more.

 

[pshufd]

View attachment 2642490

LOL,
I'll have to look at the bundles more closely. I'm not a fan of asrock, and 16GB is a bit on the low end for me. I'll have to see if this sort of makes sense.

There's is gigabyte bundle in the 400 range - here's the thing, I start off at 200 (5800x), move up to the 5800x3d, now I'm looking at 350. The bundle does interest me, but not the asrock, now I'm looking to spend in the 400 range. Do I then upgrade my PSU? case, etc? I could see myself spend way more then I initially intended, lol

My case uses a Mini-itx motherboard so that largely hurts me.

I'd personally look for a 65 watt solution with a better CPU. The improved motherboard and RAM should give you a performance bump and lower power CPUs often cost less than 105 or 125 watt CPUs.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Yeah when I looked into the X3D, the performance didn't seem to justify the price. It was like 4% better at gaming.

I still am using an "all of the above" approach. I have taken to leaving my Lenovo Legion 7 Pro RTX 5090 Intel 275HX at home and remoting into it (and using it for the Windows App for my day job), and then using my Macbook Air M4 for on-the-go. I use my iPad Pro M1 12.9" for tablet-y stuff and my trusty iPhone 17e (which is awesome, by the way. Great phone for $599 free and clear).

But, yes, the true test will come when something breaks and I have to pay today's dollars for a new device.

 

[pshufd]

Yeah when I looked into the X3D, the performance didn't seem to justify the price. It was like 4% better at gaming.

I still am using an "all of the above" approach. I have taken to leaving my Lenovo Legion 7 Pro RTX 5090 Intel 275HX at home and remoting into it (and using it for the Windows App for my day job), and then using my Macbook Air M4 for on-the-go. I use my iPad Pro M1 12.9" for tablet-y stuff and my trusty iPhone 17e (which is awesome, by the way. Great phone for $599 free and clear).

But, yes, the true test will come when something breaks and I have to pay today's dollars for a new device.

Same approach. Windows and Macs on the laptop and desktop.

If something breaks, though, at least you already have a backup so you don't have to panic buy.

All of my desktops can handle my entire workload though with less performance than using all three together.

 

[maflynn]

But, yes, the true test will come when something breaks and I have to pay today's dollars for a new device.

Yeah, do I spend money now on new-ish components, either the 5800x3d, or one of the bundle deals from microcenter. Its a slippery slope, but by the same token, the cost of components isn't going to be going down anytime soon - at least ram and nand

Edit: let me just add, that I'm largely content with my machine in terms of performance, noise and setup. I'm sure I can part out the 64GB of ddr4 ram to help offset the cost, so I have that going for me.

 

[MacCheetah3]

I have the scheduling bandwidth to visit my local Microcenter this weekend. I'm re-considering upgrading my 3700X. Microcenter has the 5800X for 200, and the 5800X3D for 350. Asking Chatgpt, it tells me that the 5800X makes more sense, where as Claude tells me the 5800X3D. Gotta love AI, lol The explanation in Claude makes more sense then what ChatGPT offered. Ch

From my research, the games I play (mostly RPG) the 3700x is largely the bottleneck and the 5800X3D makes sense. A fly in the ointment (something AI didn't mentioned) is that for Bethesda based games, particularly for the older games frame rates are largely capped, for instance you cannot easily get beyond 60fps from Fallout 76, regardless of your setup.

With that said, the 5800X3D draws less power and is cooler running then the 5800X. I think overall, while its a bit more (quite a bit) money, the 5800X3D seems to make more sense to give me AM4 setup a longer life span and not be as loud/hot as the 5800X

I hate to muddy the water but (I might)...

4 scenarios where a Ryzen X3D CPU is not the best choice

Despite the fame, Ryzen X3D CPUs might be a bad investment for you

www.xda-developers.com

AMD's X3D CPUs only help with two things, and most gamers have neither

3D V-Cache isn't a reason to buy blindly.

www.xda-developers.com

These 6 games will benefit most from the Ryzen 7 9800X3D

If you frequently play any of these titles, a 9800X3D should be on your wishlist

www.xda-developers.com

Review compares all Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 X3D CPUs, up to 64% gaming gap - VideoCardz.com

AMD Zen3, Zen4 and Zen5 X3D CPUs compared Hardware Unboxed has published a 12-game average comparing all mainstream Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 X3D processors,

videocardz.com

I recommend trying to find comparative benchmarks for the specific games you play.

Yeah when I looked into the X3D, the performance didn't seem to justify the price. It was like 4% better at gaming.

Yeah… The pool in which there’s any actually noticeable benefit is really quite tiny. The extra cache does improve latency (i.e., CPU responsiveness) in high I/O operations (i.e., lots of PCIe traffic, such as very/extremely high FPS gaming). Even in those scenarios, the typical gain is <25%. Basically, it’s not a (great) value choice (i.e., performance per dollar). It really is for the enthusiast or someone otherwise wanting/needing to squeeze out every last bit of performance.

CPUs, bottlenecks, and games: the problem with CPU benchmarking

Benchmarking a CPU in games isn't as simple as you think.

www.xda-developers.com

An AI summary (snippet) on the subject does note a valid aspect:

While critics argue this creates unrealistic scenarios for average users who are often GPU-limited at higher resolutions, proponents contend it is necessary to reveal a CPU’s true limits and predict future performance as graphics cards improve.

In other words, gaming-focused CPU benchmarks are primarily useful for future-proofing, when you upgrade components other than the platform.

 

[Steve Adams]

I just found 3 workstations like I have with way less in terms of spec sell on the ole ebay for like 3000 cdn. I am very tempted to put mine up and roll the dice. If it sells. awesome I will have my iphone and macbook that much sooner.

 

[maflynn]

I recommend trying to find comparative benchmarks for the specific games you play.

Actually I have and it seems the RPG style games that I enjoy tend to be more likely bottlenecked by the CPU, so my use case is ideal of the 3D cache variant of the Ryzen.

 

[Steve Adams]

Well, I am guessing that my dell laptop is done. The dog wanted to go out just now and I went to turn it on and I got the 4 white / 2 amber flash meaning ram failure. I knew the ram sockets were failing slowly and I think they just died.

Laptop wont boot, post or anything. New macbook incoming ASAP. now to decide if I want the 13 inch air or 14 pro. I am leaning towards the air as it is lighter and more compact. I might go 15 inch. I need to see both and then decide. I know I am going with 24gb and 1tb of storage. I will take the drive out of my laptop now and put it into a USB case and use that for project storage.

 

[Madonepro]

I'm someone who struggles to be content with either Mac or Windows. Over the past 5 years I have changed from Mac to Windows, back to Mac and find myself pondering the switch again back to Windows. During the switch I have also moved ecosystems where I was solely on Google when using Windows, but moved back into Apple ecosystem where I am now.

As someone suggested, you could VM the OS onto a Mac. You can do it the other way around, but from what I hear, it's far from smooth.
I personally have a reasonably priced Lenovo Laptop to keep up to date with Windows. Someone once said to me, that even if you love macOS, Windows will always be around in the business world, so accept the inconvenience and keep up to date with it.

 

[conmee]

Well, I am guessing that my dell laptop is done. The dog wanted to go out just now and I went to turn it on and I got the 4 white / 2 amber flash meaning ram failure. I knew the ram sockets were failing slowly and I think they just died.

Laptop wont boot, post or anything. New macbook incoming ASAP. now to decide if I want the 13 inch air or 14 pro. I am leaning towards the air as it is lighter and more compact. I might go 15 inch. I need to see both and then decide. I know I am going with 24gb and 1tb of storage. I will take the drive out of my laptop now and put it into a USB case and use that for project storage.

You probably know all this already, but unless you really care about ProMotion, get the Air and max the memory to 32GB (you're upgrading the CPU to get 24GB, might as well throw an extra $200 at Apple for the memory bump from 24GB to 32GB - in this day and age, AI or not, err on the side of more memory if possible - at least up to 32GB).

I have the 14" MBP and it feels "solid." Wife has the 15" MBA and it feels somehow lighter/smaller than my 14" (just looked up the specs to refresh my memory... holy crap the 15" Air is indeed about 1/3 pound lighter than my MBP... the 13" Air is more than a pound lighter! lol). So, if you are leaning towards portability, MBA is definitely the way to go. I do prefer the ProMotion display, but side by side with the MBA it's not that big of a difference for day to day work. I do like the higher refresh rate, makes some of the Tahoe animations look much smoother than at 60Hz. But if compact/portable was my number one priority, ProMotion would not be enough to entice me to abandon the MBA.

 

[conmee]

On the general topic of flip-flopping between Windows and macOS, I used to work for Microsoft in Redmond on the Windows team back in 2009 (don't judge lol), and the day I left the company, I gave up my Lenovo T500 and Blackjack II for a MBP and iPhone and never looked back. Since that time, though, I've only worked at one company (digital agency) that was Mac in the office. The rest of the time it's been Windows. Currently, I use Windows and Red Hat in Parallels to get work done, and it's nice to just be able to two-finger swipe Windows away when I get tired of it. 🙂 I use the Windows App as well to remote into my work issued Dell Latitude. I try to do as little with Windows as possible, but I'm not a gamer so it's fairly easy to live without Windows. I don't hate Windows, I just prefer macOS. I kept my old 2019 15" Intel MBP (2.8Ghz, 32GB, 2TB, Vega 20 4GB) so I can still run Mojave and 32-bit macOS apps and Bootcamp into Windows 10 for some games. Windows has its place and is good for a great many things, but I'm no fan of the ever-increasing telemetry, updates, and now AI Microsoft seems intent on implementing. If macOS embraces significant amounts of ensh**ification in the future, then Pop!_OS on a Framework computer and a Pixel with GrapheneOS will be my next adventure.

 

[Steve Adams]

On the general topic of flip-flopping between Windows and macOS, I used to work for Microsoft in Redmond on the Windows team back in 2009 (don't judge lol), and the day I left the company, I gave up my Lenovo T500 and Blackjack II for a MBP and iPhone and never looked back. Since that time, though, I've only worked at one company (digital agency) that was Mac in the office. The rest of the time it's been Windows. Currently, I use Windows and Red Hat in Parallels to get work done, and it's nice to just be able to two-finger swipe Windows away when I get tired of it. 🙂 I use the Windows App as well to remote into my work issued Dell Latitude. I try to do as little with Windows as possible, but I'm not a gamer so it's fairly easy to live without Windows. I don't hate Windows, I just prefer macOS. I kept my old 2019 15" Intel MBP (2.8Ghz, 32GB, 2TB, Vega 20 4GB) so I can still run Mojave and 32-bit macOS apps and Bootcamp into Windows 10 for some games. Windows has its place and is good for a great many things, but I'm no fan of the ever-increasing telemetry, updates, and now AI Microsoft seems intent on implementing. If macOS embraces significant amounts of ensh**ification in the future, then Pop!_OS on a Framework computer and a Pixel with GrapheneOS will be my next adventure.

I am not so worried about the telemetry etc. with windows. I am at the point where I want quality products that all work seamlessly together. That's the apple line up. The iPhone with airpods 3 pro with hearing support is a big feature for me since I really need hearing aids, but I refuse to pay the insanity prices they go for here.

I want my phone, tablet and laptop to communicate seamlessly and work as a system. I want my watch to give me all my features, etc. I want the accessories I want without having to compromise. Again, that's apple. I totally get it. Best part, so does the wife! ha ha. So, we are moving to full apple. I am going on a shopping spree when we sell our house and get situated into our new place.

 

[pshufd]

Well, I am guessing that my dell laptop is done. The dog wanted to go out just now and I went to turn it on and I got the 4 white / 2 amber flash meaning ram failure. I knew the ram sockets were failing slowly and I think they just died.

Laptop wont boot, post or anything. New macbook incoming ASAP. now to decide if I want the 13 inch air or 14 pro. I am leaning towards the air as it is lighter and more compact. I might go 15 inch. I need to see both and then decide. I know I am going with 24gb and 1tb of storage. I will take the drive out of my laptop now and put it into a USB case and use that for project storage.

How long did the Dell provide service for?

 

[Steve Adams]

How long did the Dell provide service for?

6 years of hard labour. ha ha. I knew the ram sockets were starting to fail as they were throwing errors in service tracking. I got it fired up again and I am typing on it right now, but I won't use it for any important tasks. I have my 10th gen iPad next to me now incase of failure.

 

[pshufd]

6 years of hard labour. ha ha. I knew the ram sockets were starting to fail as they were throwing errors in service tracking. I got it fired up again and I am typing on it right now, but I won't use it for any important tasks. I have my 10th gen iPad next to me now incase of failure.

That's pretty good for modern Windows laptops.

I have an old-school Dell Inspiron from 2000 and it worked fine the last time I booted it up which was probably around 2020.

 

[Steve Adams]

Yes. this machine lived a well used life. Like I said, it was not treated rough but it travelled ALOT and has been used extensively every day since I owned it.

 

[pshufd]

I moved some of my multimedia stuff over to the Windows PC and no longer need the Samsung 990 EVO Plus 2 TB external SSD. The Gen 3 Crucial 2 TB runs at 3,500 MBps on my windows desktop which is the same speed that the Gen 4 990 EVO Plus runs at on my Studio. The limiting factor is Thunderbolt 4. So I get the same speed and space but with an older generation SSD.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the 2 TB SSD right now. It has quite good performance and the enclosure is the OWC 1M2 so it's great for Macs. I just don't see the nearterm need for the additional space.

 

[leemkule]

You probably know all this already, but unless you really care about ProMotion, get the Air and max the memory to 32GB (you're upgrading the CPU to get 24GB, might as well throw an extra $200 at Apple for the memory bump from 24GB to 32GB - in this day and age, AI or not, err on the side of more memory if possible - at least up to 32GB).

I have the 14" MBP and it feels "solid." Wife has the 15" MBA and it feels somehow lighter/smaller than my 14" (just looked up the specs to refresh my memory... holy crap the 15" Air is indeed about 1/3 pound lighter than my MBP... the 13" Air is more than a pound lighter! lol). So, if you are leaning towards portability, MBA is definitely the way to go. I do prefer the ProMotion display, but side by side with the MBA it's not that big of a difference for day to day work. I do like the higher refresh rate, makes some of the Tahoe animations look much smoother than at 60Hz. But if compact/portable was my number one priority, ProMotion would not be enough to entice me to abandon the MBA.

I don't know if it's just me, I'm probably gonna out myself as clueless here somehow, but I accidentally had promotion off and set to 60hz on my MacBook Pro for months and I didn't notice. I toggled between 60hz and promotion and could barely notice a difference, that said on my partners old MacBook Air (M1) I can definitely notice the difference.

My theory at least is that the motion blur on the MacBook Pro is so absolutely terrible that the 120hz only really makes a difference in certain situations. On my OLED monitor which admittedly is more aimed at gaming, 240hz means text is totally clear when scrolling but on Mac screen, not matter the refresh rate, it's blurry.