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Agree on the desktop products. To me the price gouging on RAM and disk space is a major issue with Apple's desktop product pricing. Paired with Apple being the only game in town with no upgradeable disk drive, it's just not acceptable in a desktop system for me.

Of course all this is there for the laptops too and for work that pushed me into a more powerful system than I truly needed just so for the next X years it's not going to be problem that the baseline model has a slower SSD etc. But on a work provided machine I can accept those compromises, it's still the best laptop on the market.

I priced the closest equivalent M1 Mac Studio to my 13600K+4090 ITX form factor PC and my PC was cheaper, fully upgradeable and its mainly larger (but not some big ATX box) and of course runs Windows.

As a developer environment MacOS is smooth sailing compared to Windows for me at least, but boy do I loathe the external display handling. Compatibility, scaling issues, the higher end your display the worse it gets whereas even the integrated GPU on my PC is happily handling my 4K 144 Hz display without problems. "It Just Works" certainly does not apply to Apple anymore when you venture beyond their own hardware and accessories.

But for my personal uses, which is what the PC is for, Windows is totally fine. I have no major problem with it. It just has a different set of quirks from MacOS.
One of the struggles I have with going Apple (or even PC laptop) is that inability to replace anything. It puts you totally at the mercy of the company should something go wrong. I ran into this with a Lenovo laptop I tried switching to; they wound up keeping my laptop for 3 months while telling me it's being repaired, only to send it back more broken.

Compare that to the desktop I built, where I can replace anything on it same-day for under $100 if I just want to throw cash at it (I go cheap when I build). And with Linux, I can even throw the SSD into a totally different computer and keep working.
 
One of the struggles I have with going Apple (or even PC laptop) is that inability to replace anything. It puts you totally at the mercy of the company should something go wrong. I ran into this with a Lenovo laptop I tried switching to; they wound up keeping my laptop for 3 months while telling me it's being repaired, only to send it back more broken.

Compare that to the desktop I built, where I can replace anything on it same-day for under $100 if I just want to throw cash at it (I go cheap when I build). And with Linux, I can even throw the SSD into a totally different computer and keep working.
Pretty much yeah. I am willing to compromise on that for a laptop, tablet, phone but there is no functional reason to make a desktop system non-upgradeable/repairable. Space concerns are not it, I mean there are fully upgradeable Mac Mini size PCs out there.
 
I always use the AW, not just for the up-front benefits but the somewhat hidden ones that you hope are never needed.

  • Fall Detection has proven itself many times
  • Blood Oxygen levels
  • Arrhythmia Detection
  • Plus all the other health and exercise stats
  • I only need my AW and IPP when I run and music, calls and so on are all available
  • It replaces the need to have my phone in a pocket or in reach for many things
The health and exercise stats are plenty for me. I don't want to be spending time having to review a mass of stats. Just tell me what's important and the AW does that in my view.

For me, it's a device for permanent use, other than charging. I ended up selling most of my expensive watches as I don't use them.

Each to their own, I love it. Apple Fitness is excellent also. I am 50 though so a lot of things that are important to me are perhaps not as important to you.
It is these features that are eroding my disinterest.
 
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One of the struggles I have with going Apple (or even PC laptop) is that inability to replace anything. It puts you totally at the mercy of the company should something go wrong. I ran into this with a Lenovo laptop I tried switching to; they wound up keeping my laptop for 3 months while telling me it's being repaired, only to send it back more broken.

The ARM/SoC architecture is making this happen faster too. I miss the good ole days where you could upgrade your memory, storage and video. I look at the Power Mac G4 towers with the pull down door and wonder where it all went wrong. 🤣

Sigh.
 
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Pretty much yeah. I am willing to compromise on that for a laptop, tablet, phone but there is no functional reason to make a desktop system non-upgradeable/repairable. Space concerns are not it, I mean there are fully upgradeable Mac Mini size PCs out there.
Speed, reliability, and environmental sustainability. At least, that is what Apple would cite. I really can't argue much with the first two. The third one is a bit more dubious since obviously not being able to replace a component that does happen to go bad or upgrade RAM essentially turns the device into ewaste, but having everything soldered onto one board does dramatically reduce the amount of stuff that needs to be manufactured in the first place. If you've ever torn down a Lenovo ThinkCentre Tiny, you'll know that there's quite a bit of stuff inside.

But obviously from Apple's perspective it doesn't hurt that it increases sales.
 
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I looked at the new fractal mini itx case that is anodized green and wood. It's awesome. I would buy / build one of those for a nice small form factor beast.
I actually think the Fractal Era is a very Mac-like (without being a clone) case. https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/era/era-itx/titanium-gray-walnut/

That new one is great too (and very tempting), although the overall design (minus color and wood bit) is pretty similar to several other itx cases.
 
I actually think the Fractal Era is a very Mac-like (without being a clone) case. https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/era/era-itx/titanium-gray-walnut/

That new one is great too (and very tempting), although the overall design (minus color and wood bit) is pretty similar to several other itx cases.
The Terra is the one I was looking at, but the Era is sweet too. For my main system I would use the north. It has all the space I need, plus the looks are killer as well.

 
That looks really sharp. I can see myself using that. I think the wife would kill me, if I undertook another pc build, so I'll have to sit tight for now :)
Ask for forgiveness not permission. HA HA HA. I love the green/wood combo. It's really appealing to me. The fractal boxes with wood and the system 76s are my favorite cases. I am thinking of going down to the wood shop and make my own case panels using an old PC case I have here.
 
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I am waiting for this to come back into stock at Amazon to start my next build. Been waiting a few weeks now :)

Screenshot 2023-06-17 at 10.31.29.png
 
One of the struggles I have with going Apple (or even PC laptop) is that inability to replace anything.

I have to admit in a laptop I am accepting of that and prefer it. Well, not prefer it. I want a laptop to be thin and light for portability. The kind of thin and light of a MBA which is only possible if you give up the ability to upgrade.
 
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I am lucky enough to have a PC and a Mac, and I also flit between them both. I’m in the UK and we have a bespoke builder here called PC Specialist and they in my opinion are very good. As it has been mentioned I am also a little worried about how if my Mac mini develops a hardware issue, I’m at the behest of Apple to fix it, which could be very expensive and possible equivalent to just going and buying a new one. Or they might replace it if I’m lucky.

My PC can be opened and fixed easily and I have confidence I could send it back to PC Specialist and they can fix it, or I could even get a local guy here to fix it cheaply and easily.

But, the PC is a big old beast, and owing to the processor I needed to opt for AIO cooling, and all in all I should think it uses a bit more electric than the Mac mini and it’s a lot louder.

I like to keep backups of stuff I make, and here the PC is a bit better as it has all those USB ports for HD and thumb drives. And I find my emulators work better on my PC, I quite like a bit of retro gaming. My Logitech control pad often is not recognised or does not work on my emulators on Mac. Not sure why?

So including games, which is still a Windows mainstay. I have lots of reason to like my PC. But some things are a lot better with a Mac, I like to write for pleasure and also mess around making music. I find these hobbies better suited to the Mac, for a start I have Logic Pro on my Mac, and I did think of buying Cubase for the PC, but why spend £280 when I have Logic on the Mac?

Windows gives me Word and Google Docs, and I can use Scrivener. But if you wanted to publish something you wrote, on my Mac I can export to Epub direct from Pages, and also publish to Apple Books from Pages too, which is likely a better experience than doing it on a PC.

And for some reason I trust iCloud a bit more than OneDrive, where I pay about £6 for Office, which I largely don’t use or need, and my OneDrive storage, I have enough storage with iCloud for about £1

And yes, the nagging. Windows nags you too much. I had Edge open the other day and then used Chrome and it nagged me to use Edge, I wanted Chrome as it was better suited to what I wanted to do, but they nagged me. Don’t get nagged by Apple.

But then I do also have a place in my heart for the humble PC. I grew up on PC’s, I grew up playing games like Space Quest, etc. I can’t do that on a Mac easily so there is nostalgia with the PC.

And the humble nature of the PC is endearing to me. A Mac is a bit, upmarket, a little exclusive. Which is both a strength and a potential weakness as perceived by others. Some people only have basic needs and they say, why buy a Mac? Well, yeah, for them, why?

But perhaps they are not the target audience for a Mac?

It’s a headache for me, I look at the configurability and value of a PC build and find it tantalising, but then look at how simple the solution is with Apple, this quiet little Mac mini that does a sound job.

Tricky. I flit between the two, and I genuinely love my PC and I love my Mac. I ideally would like both, but that depends if I can afford both. If I had to choose, what would I do? Depends what day it is, flip flopping! I like to tell myself anything you can do on a Mac you can also do on a PC, yeah, technically you can, but for me, apart from games, the Mac just does it better. But only due to me being interested in creative things. If I wanted to be an Engineer, then PC likely would be better.

I love both, and I am very lucky to have both, I suppose it all comes down to personal priorities. Thinking of writing and music making, which is easier with Logic Pro than with Cubase, I would choose the Mac. But if games were all that important, then PC. For me, as I am a very casual gamer I probably would be better suited to a Mac.
 
I am lucky enough to have a PC and a Mac, and I also flit between them both. I’m in the UK and we have a bespoke builder here called PC Specialist and they in my opinion are very good. As it has been mentioned I am also a little worried about how if my Mac mini develops a hardware issue, I’m at the behest of Apple to fix it, which could be very expensive and possible equivalent to just going and buying a new one. Or they might replace it if I’m lucky.

My PC can be opened and fixed easily and I have confidence I could send it back to PC Specialist and they can fix it, or I could even get a local guy here to fix it cheaply and easily.

But, the PC is a big old beast, and owing to the processor I needed to opt for AIO cooling, and all in all I should think it uses a bit more electric than the Mac mini and it’s a lot louder.

I like to keep backups of stuff I make, and here the PC is a bit better as it has all those USB ports for HD and thumb drives. And I find my emulators work better on my PC, I quite like a bit of retro gaming. My Logitech control pad often is not recognised or does not work on my emulators on Mac. Not sure why?

So including games, which is still a Windows mainstay. I have lots of reason to like my PC. But some things are a lot better with a Mac, I like to write for pleasure and also mess around making music. I find these hobbies better suited to the Mac, for a start I have Logic Pro on my Mac, and I did think of buying Cubase for the PC, but why spend £280 when I have Logic on the Mac?

Windows gives me Word and Google Docs, and I can use Scrivener. But if you wanted to publish something you wrote, on my Mac I can export to Epub direct from Pages, and also publish to Apple Books from Pages too, which is likely a better experience than doing it on a PC.

And for some reason I trust iCloud a bit more than OneDrive, where I pay about £6 for Office, which I largely don’t use or need, and my OneDrive storage, I have enough storage with iCloud for about £1

And yes, the nagging. Windows nags you too much. I had Edge open the other day and then used Chrome and it nagged me to use Edge, I wanted Chrome as it was better suited to what I wanted to do, but they nagged me. Don’t get nagged by Apple.

But then I do also have a place in my heart for the humble PC. I grew up on PC’s, I grew up playing games like Space Quest, etc. I can’t do that on a Mac easily so there is nostalgia with the PC.

And the humble nature of the PC is endearing to me. A Mac is a bit, upmarket, a little exclusive. Which is both a strength and a potential weakness as perceived by others. Some people only have basic needs and they say, why buy a Mac? Well, yeah, for them, why?

But perhaps they are not the target audience for a Mac?

It’s a headache for me, I look at the configurability and value of a PC build and find it tantalising, but then look at how simple the solution is with Apple, this quiet little Mac mini that does a sound job.

Tricky. I flit between the two, and I genuinely love my PC and I love my Mac. I ideally would like both, but that depends if I can afford both. If I had to choose, what would I do? Depends what day it is, flip flopping! I like to tell myself anything you can do on a Mac you can also do on a PC, yeah, technically you can, but for me, apart from games, the Mac just does it better. But only due to me being interested in creative things. If I wanted to be an Engineer, then PC likely would be better.

I love both, and I am very lucky to have both, I suppose it all comes down to personal priorities. Thinking of writing and music making, which is easier with Logic Pro than with Cubase, I would choose the Mac. But if games were all that important, then PC. For me, as I am a very casual gamer I probably would be better suited to a Mac.
I am a creative and I do everything on my pc. scrivener is a needed program for anyone who wants to write books, etc. I have it and it's great for organizing content. I have all software I need on my pc. Photo/video/graphic/music/writing software is all available. What's not available is true integration with my iPhone / iPad. But I will take that hit for being able to increase storage/ram or fix parts that stop functioning. I have added ram, storage, increased battery capacity and more to my notebook, and maxed out my workstation for thousands less than a comparable mac. I am still drawn to a mac mini however for poops and giggles.
 
For good or ill, Apple's onerous storage pricing really drove me to learning about and understanding backup/external storage solutions. Among other things I have a simple home server with a bunch of storage attached to it that stores all my data. With that in place, a computer with only 256 or 512 GB storage is not a major issue for me. I have room for all of my apps and some local media in case I need entertainment in a place without a network connection (increasingly uncommon but some parts of my state are still a bit remote). I regularly offload my data to central storage on my home server

Back when we were on Intel, one of my Apple wishlist items was a hobby computer that would have pluggable everything. Now that Apple has transitioned to unified everything with their ARM SoCs that's not really something feasible unless there is a major rework of Apple silicon. I'd like to see them do price cuts but I'm not optimistic there.

One thing that will always ensure I have at least one PC in the house (besides for gaming of course) is just that I do like to fiddle with hardware and it's something I can't do with Apple computers to much.
 
I am a creative and I do everything on my pc. scrivener is a needed program for anyone who wants to write books, etc. I have it and it's great for organizing content. I have all software I need on my pc. Photo/video/graphic/music/writing software is all available. What's not available is true integration with my iPhone / iPad. But I will take that hit for being able to increase storage/ram or fix parts that stop functioning. I have added ram, storage, increased battery capacity and more to my notebook, and maxed out my workstation for thousands less than a comparable mac. I am still drawn to a mac mini however for poops and giggles.
Lots of things to love about the PC. I have this demarcation in my mind of Mac’s being the ‘creative’ computers, but that is wrong. I would say that when I look up musicians I am keen on often they are using Macs. Yes you can do it all on PC, but as I am not very technically minded I do find things like Logic Pro and iMovie, make life a lot more easy for me. And the small stature of the Mac mini makes things nice and simple, that is until things go wrong.

One advantage with the PC is that it is also the standard, Mac’s are not. So occasionally even if Apple like to talk about how ‘compatible’ their computers are, PC’s are the most compatible.

Logic Pro is easier for someone like me to use, but then I can use Ableton on either, which is what I use mostly. Works just fine on a PC.

I did try that Ulysses and I’m not keen on it being ‘Mac’ only, not keen on the backup routine and not keen on paying yearly or monthly. My copy of Scrivener is fine until I want to upgrade.
 
Ask for forgiveness not permission.
LOL, I used to do that for my first marriage. Is there a correlation for doing that and my marriage ending - hmmm ;)

Seriously though. I'm more in the market for a laptop, and I'll be looking to buy a MBP for my daughter next year because she graduates HS and will need something in college.
 
LOL, I used to do that for my first marriage. Is there a correlation for doing that and my marriage ending - hmmm ;)

Seriously though. I'm more in the market for a laptop, and I'll be looking to buy a MBP for my daughter next year because she graduates HS and will need something in college.
Unless she specifies something different, the young'ins want macs. So, I think you are safe with getting her a macbook. We did the same thing with our son when he went to university.
 
Oh I'm sure but its going to be really what the school recommends. While she used my MBPs in the past, she does prefer PCs. So the first step is to apply to colleges, and pick one that she wants.
Good kid, liking PCs better than mac. Ha ha, Wish mine did. Would be much better for tech support. ha ha! I can't see a university specifying what computer a student needs unless it's some uber specific program they are offering like coding.
 
Unless she specifies something different, the young'ins want macs. So, I think you are safe with getting her a macbook. We did the same thing with our son when he went to university.
Not all the youngins want Macs, my 16 year old artist has an M1 Macbook Pro, but my 12 year old absolutely loves her Dell 17" gaming laptop with a 2060. She will probably always be windows. LOL. At some point I hope we can build her a PC together.
 
Good kid, liking PCs better than mac. Ha ha, Wish mine did. Would be much better for tech support. ha ha! I can't see a university specifying what computer a student needs unless it's some uber specific program they are offering like coding.
Yeah that's true. Most CAD and 3D programs prefer Windows computers for that. Then again, that information may be a little outdated as I am not in IT anymore in those environments. It's been a while. LOL.
 
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