Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[The point and shoot pro]

There is a virtue that comes from working with limited income that is not supplemented by credit or loans of any kind. I have to think very hard for a long time about my purchases and I have next to never regretted a purchase in the last 10 years for this reason. I have had to return some machines, but mostly due to unexpected issues instead of buyers' remorse.

I do not use my line of credit that was made available to me after my bankruptcy was relieved and it is so liberating. That bankruptcy came about largely due to misuse of credit (combined with economic disaster in my sector in 2008) and I love being debt-free. Every month I come out clean. I don't get new toys very often, but I can live with that. I buy what I need.

There were many 'flip flopping' moments for me back when, I would be buying new monitors and computers while the old ones were still being shipped out for returns, kind of like the OP's situation was. All that did was add stress keeping track of all these packages and what I need to box up and label. Nowadays I am not fussed with it...

We live like that as well, not because of bankruptcy etc. Just that we are keeping thing slim. My current setup works for us doing our work moving forward. I do want to try MacOS. I do want to see what the other side is like now that its more modern. I hated the os before, and hate how somethings work. But other things intrigue me. Maybe I will keep my current dell systems for work and try a base model mac. They are affordable for me, and keep my windows systems for heavy lifting of work tasks.

If i find I start using a mac more than my windows systems and I feel I want to use them for my work and it would be a benefit, I may go that route. I do have a hard time justifying laying out a crap ton of money for something I won't like. I know the best thing would be setup a hackintosh and use that to try...but that's alot of messing around I don't want to get into. If I could find a used mini for 3-400 bucks that could run current MacOS I would be interested in that too.

It's all fun! I do not crap on anyone for what they choose to use, I crap on the companies who make things with wild costs for minimal upgrades (no matter what the brand/logo).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Thy did at least give us back ram upgradeability in the last intel MM, which wasn't fun to do. But then took it all back with AS. The reality is that it will never come back now.

They literally want everything to be based off the iPhone OS. VisionOS is iOS based. Eventually they will limit the Mac so much that it becomes the iPadOS—when what everyone wanted was the other way around.

I am just waiting to get a Surface Pro for cheap (probably get the SP8 when the SP10 is released) and hand-me-down my iPad Pro 12.9 M1.

 

[LeeW]

I know the best thing would be setup a hackintosh and use that to try.

It's really not. The pain of setting up a Hackintosh and then finding just how much won't work will just sour the experience before you even establish how it will work day to day.

Order what you want from Apple and try it, a Mac Mini for example. Return it within 14 days if it's not what you expected.

 

[LeeW]

They literally want everything to be based off the iPhone OS. VisionOS is iOS based. Eventually they will limit the Mac so much that it becomes the iPadOS—when what everyone wanted was the other way around.

I think different (see what I did there?). I actually think the future Apple doesn't have a Mac at all. Not the short-term Apple but more long-term. The iPad form of device is their future.

iPhone, iPad, Watch and VR/AR are their core product line-up of the future. The iPad will do what the Mac does today through iPadOS not macOS.

 

[Farrgazer]

If i find I start using a mac more than my windows systems and I feel I want to use them for my work and it would be a benefit, I may go that route. I do have a hard time justifying laying out a crap ton of money for something I won't like. I know the best thing would be setup a hackintosh and use that to try...but that's alot of messing around I don't want to get into. If I could find a used mini for 3-400 bucks that could run current MacOS I would be interested in that too.

I’ll take @LeeW’s comment and take it one step further: wait for the Christmas and end-of-year holidays. In some markets, Apple extends the return window to early January the next year, way longer than the usual 14 days if you buy something quick enough.

Apple's Extended Return Policy Now in Effect for 2022 Holiday Shopping Season

Apple today announced that its extended return policy is now in effect for the holiday shopping season. The policy applies to most products that...

www.macrumors.com

 

[LeeW]

Also, if you go down the Hackintosh route it has to be intel, you will miss the good and bad of AS and that could make or break it for you.

 

[fathergll]

I actually don't mind you can't upgrade a Mac. Buy the specs you need and then use it for a long time. Macs have great resale value.

The only issue is if something goes wrong and not being able to troubleshoot it. I just hate the idea that computer may be out of commission for a long time. With that said I've been lucky in the past with Apple computers but what I would be hoping is for if we can't service them then they become extremely reliable with a SOC approach almost like it's an iPhone/iPad where those things basically don't break. I'm willing to ignore any upgradability concerns if Apple can get their computers to that level of reliability.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I think different (see what I did there?). I actually think the future Apple doesn't have a Mac at all. Not the short-term Apple but more long-term. The iPad form of device is their future.

iPhone, iPad, Watch and VR/AR are their core product line-up of the future. The iPad will do what the Mac does today through iPadOS not macOS.

That “thinking different” is even worse!!!!!

 

[eltoslightfoot]

It's really not. The pain of setting up a Hackintosh and then finding just how much won't work will just sour the experience before you even establish how it will work day to day.

Order what you want from Apple and try it, a Mac Mini for example. Return it within 14 days if it's not what you expected.

Eh, I have done a number of hackintoshes. The last one had an AMD Ryzen 5 5600x. It’s pretty easy these days, but yeah, still not completely fun or trustworthy.

 

[LeeW]

Eh, I have done a number of hackintoshes.

His first, so it won't be pretty. And besides, creating a Hackintosh either intel or AMD to decide whether you like it and want to buy a new device with AS is not a good comparison.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

His first, so it won't be pretty. And besides, creating a Hackintosh either intel or AMD to decide whether you like it and want to buy a new device with AS is not a good comparison.

It also isn't as bad as you remember. OpenCore makes it fairly simple. And the performance on a beefy desktop processor was just as good as a Macbook Air M1. (I also had a AMD graphics card...)

The main reason is that it is actually not much money now just to buy a basic M1 mac these days. And you can get most of it back if you decide its not for you.

GitHub - dortania/OpenCore-Install-Guide: Repo for the OpenCore Install Guide

Repo for the OpenCore Install Guide. Contribute to dortania/OpenCore-Install-Guide development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Where I am a bell employee, If I buy anything from the source, I get 30 days return. Might have to get a MacBook. Screw it.

 

[LeeW]

It also isn't as bad as you remember. OpenCore makes it fairly simple. And the performance on a beefy desktop processor was just as good as a Macbook Air M1. (I also had a AMD graphics card...)

I am sure it's better than the last one I did which was many years ago. I think my point is more that because Apple has moved to AS, the experience is just not going to be the same. You don't get the feel for how good or bad AS is for you or your required apps if they need to be run through R2 or whatever.

Try a Hackintosh and it's all great then go and buy an M2 MBA and all of sudden some things you need don't work or don't perform as well under AS.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I am sure it's better than the last one I did which was many years ago. I think my point is more that because Apple has moved to AS, the experience is just not going to be the same. You don't get the feel for how good or bad AS is for you or your required apps if they need to be run through R2 or whatever.

Try a Hackintosh and it's all great then go and buy an M2 MBA and all of sudden some things you need don't work or don't perform as well under AS.

Ohhhhhh, I see. You are thinking about compatibility. That is totally fair. But it would give a person a good sense of everything else. Can they handle the poor font performance on lower than 4k resolution screens for instance? Do they even like the OS? Is it annoying to them?

They could answer that stuff. But you are also correct in what you are saying as well. There could be differences in the changing of the architecture.

 

[lcseds]

You know what they say......😄

As for upgrading a studio, that's a hard No. You cannot even really upgrade a pro other than put some cards in it and add a bit of Sata storage. I went for 12 gb to 64gb of ram in my dell laptop and from 16gb to 128gb of ram in my workstation. Plus I am thinking I am putting a new CPU in the workstation too. Can't do that with Mac Pro/Studio either. Upgrades are a way to keep your money spent working longer.

As I said in other threads, the needle has not moved in favor of mac vs. PC since....forever really. Probably a percent either way swing in market share but nothing fantastical. People have basically made their choices and stick with what they know.

It's only us loonies who have both, plus linux boxes etc.

I do have to take some issue to the "pop a new CPU" into Win machine. Generally what you bought should work for two to three years? It's likely that to upgrade, you will need a new system board, a new CPU, and probably new, faster ram for any appreciable gains. Then, you will be looking at that video card......So while upgradeability for Win boxes is true, the simplicity, and minimal cost factors tend to be overblown. I have done Win boxes many times. For me, an upgrade is a gut job. I do keep the case and P/S. But who wants to upgrade a two year old CPU with a faster two year old CPU? Then down the rabbit hole on the other parts.

That being said, I have both a Lenovo T7 Desktop and an Apple Studio and monitor. Plus an LG 17" notebook, a Macbook Pro 16" M1, etc so I have no dog in the fight.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I do have to take some issue to the "pop a new CPU" into Win machine. Generally what you bought should work for two to three years? It's likely that to upgrade, you will need a new system board, a new CPU, and probably new, faster ram for any appreciable gains. Then, you will be looking at that video card......So while upgradeability for Win boxes is true, the simplicity, and minimal cost factors tend to be overblown. I have done Win boxes many times. For me, an upgrade is a gut job. I do keep the case and P/S. But who wants to upgrade a two year old CPU with a faster two year old CPU? Then down the rabbit hole on the other parts.

That being said, I have both a Lenovo T7 Desktop and an Apple Studio and monitor. Plus an LG 17" notebook, a Macbook Pro 16" M1, etc so I have no dog in the fight.

You are, of course, correct. Few people upgrade the CPU. However, in my gaming PC, I had to replace the mobo due to a short. No problem. I had to replace a liquid cooler, no problem. So it is really nice just to be able to replace a part.

But the main savings is to RAM and SSD. You can buy a laptop/desktop and upgrade the RAM and SSD for 1/4 the price or even lower.

 

[lcseds]

No argument there! 2TB on a new 15" MBA $540?, 24GB Ram $360? Collectively these two are worth no more than $300-400. Apple wants $900, and that's with my 10% veteran discount! I am not sure why I buy this stuff. I always considered myself rational.......

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I do have to take some issue to the "pop a new CPU" into Win machine. Generally what you bought should work for two to three years? It's likely that to upgrade, you will need a new system board, a new CPU, and probably new, faster ram for any appreciable gains. Then, you will be looking at that video card......So while upgradeability for Win boxes is true, the simplicity, and minimal cost factors tend to be overblown. I have done Win boxes many times. For me, an upgrade is a gut job. I do keep the case and P/S. But who wants to upgrade a two year old CPU with a faster two year old CPU? Then down the rabbit hole on the other parts.

That being said, I have both a Lenovo T7 Desktop and an Apple Studio and monitor. Plus an LG 17" notebook, a Macbook Pro 16" M1, etc so I have no dog in the fight.

Next to ram, replacing the CPU is the easiest component to replace in my workstation. 4 screws and one fan plug. Lift up the lock, remove old, put in new, and fire it up. Nothing hard about it. As I said before, I bought my xps workstation with the intent on upgrading the guts as I knew I would save more than a thousand in parts. Plus it was the only way to get a decent video card at the time.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

No argument there! 2TB on a new 15" MBA $540?, 24GB Ram $360? Collectively these two are worth no more than $300-400. Apple wants $900, and that's with my 10% veteran discount! I am not sure why I buy this stuff. I always considered myself rational.......

The shiny toys cloud our minds, almost like another wonderful thing! ha ha

 

[LeeW]

Apple is very calculating, there is no doubt about it. The number one user of Macs is the home user. Not developers or other professionals.

The home user largely fits into the base model devices of 256GB storage and 8GB Ram. They have no real sense that 8GB ram in 2023 is not enough and 256GB storage might not be. Even for them and their basic needs their system will be OOM in no time, only thanks to swapping will they not notice that and really not care. The system will be fast enough for those home users.

For everyone else that knows they need more, you need to pay more. I respect that if you want an extra 8GB of Ram Apple effectively wants you to pay for that whole 16GB you want and offer no credit for the 8GB you were getting anyway. I don't agree with it, just respect that they can get away with it and they do. Approaching a $3tn market cap shows just how successful their approach is whether you like it or not.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Apple is very calculating, there is no doubt about it. The number one user of Macs is the home user. Not developers or other professionals.

The home user largely fits into the base model devices of 256GB storage and 8GB Ram. They have no real sense that 8GB ram in 2023 is not enough and 256GB storage might not be. Even for them and their basic needs their system will be OOM in no time, only thanks to swapping will they not notice that and really not care. The system will be fast enough for those home users.

For everyone else that knows they need more, you need to pay more. I respect that if you want an extra 8GB of Ram Apple effectively wants you to pay for that whole 16GB you want and offer no credit for the 8GB you were getting anyway. I don't agree with it, just respect that they can get away with it and they do. Approaching a $3tn market cap shows just how successful their approach is whether you like it or not.

Although that is largely due to their iPhone biz…..which isn’t really dependent on RAM and SSD. I think they are successful in spite of the RAM and SSD nerfing.

 

[lcseds]

Next to ram, replacing the CPU is the easiest component to replace in my workstation. 4 screws and one fan plug. Lift up the lock, remove old, put in new, and fire it up. Nothing hard about it. As I said before, I bought my xps workstation with the intent on upgrading the guts as I knew I would save more than a thousand in parts. Plus it was the only way to get a decent video card at the time.

I was not referring to the physical change of a CPU. Yes, very easy. But you are locked into what the system board supports. This predicament changes more often than many want to admit. That's why I commented after 2-3 years, it's likely you can only upgrade to a 2-3 year old CPU that's a little faster. Largely not considered an upgrade.

 

[IAlberta]

Fancy, schmantzy! Very nice. Why don't you run Windows on your Mac? I have too many boxes and am thinking to consolidate to a single Mac platform and either bootcamp it or Parallels.

Quite likely for the same reason(s) I keep a sports car and a truck in the driveway..

 

[The point and shoot pro]

I was not referring to the physical change of a CPU. Yes, very easy. But you are locked into what the system board supports. This predicament changes more often than many want to admit. That's why I commented after 2-3 years, it's likely you can only upgrade to a 2-3 year old CPU that's a little faster. Largely not considered an upgrade.

While some what true, I still have the choice if I choose to do so.

 

[pshufd]

I was not referring to the physical change of a CPU. Yes, very easy. But you are locked into what the system board supports. This predicament changes more often than many want to admit. That's why I commented after 2-3 years, it's likely you can only upgrade to a 2-3 year old CPU that's a little faster. Largely not considered an upgrade.

The CPU makers seem to be requiring faster MB changes these days.