For the average user, what are the negatives of Windows?

[Mildredop]

I have a 2013 MacBook Pro - it's dented, the battery is getting bad and I'm forever getting "HHD nearly full" notifications. I'd like a new one.

But the current line-up doesn't look encouraging and I'm not confident that Apple will be moving the Mac forward.

I don't have any other Apple device (but my partner does if that matters).

Whenever I look at a PC in a shop, the thing that immediately strike me is that the text looks blocky. On a Mac it just looks nicer to the eye.

But other than that, will I really notice much if I move to PCs (like the XPS 13)? I spend most of my time in Chrome. I don't use Apple apps much any more.

Price isn't an issue.

 

[Queen6]

Learning curve, longer to set up due to more options (assuming you want to change things) if visiting the "darker" parts of the web you will need a robust 3rd party AV solution, if not Windows Defender is adequate.

Biggest take away it don't look to fix what isn't broken, too much "snake oil" on Windows with many sites & apps promising better performance etc. Similar to OS X Windows 10 pretty much takes care of itself with Microsoft providing many of the tools if opt to use such as space cleaners, backup solutions etc.

W10 is a very powerful and by nature complex operating system with a myriad of settings, equally for the majority of users there's simply no need to get involved with deep rooted setting designed for complex Enterprise environments.

Q-6

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Whenever I look at a PC in a shop, the thing that immediately strike me is that the text looks blocky. On a Mac it just looks nicer to the eye.

But other than that, will I really notice much if I move to PCs (like the XPS 13)? I spend most of my time in Chrome. I don't use Apple apps much any more.

Price isn't an issue.

The 'blocky' text you are seeing has nothing to do with Windows itself. The scaling of text in Windows 10 is on par with the Mac. The reasons you experience it as blocky can be one of the following:

1. The screen of the laptop/pc you are looking at in the shop is of lesser quality/lower resolution than the Mac you are used to. This is easily solved by buying a PC with a quality screen/high screen resolution.
2. Older windows programs (not updated in a long time) do not scale fonts as well as modern Windows programs. There is a myriad of old/new software to download for Windows from all kinds of sites. Varying from 'butt ugly' to look at to 'beautiful' to look at. Try to stick to modern programs or apps from the Microsoft store and you will be fine.
3. Chrome in Windows has/had some problems with font scaling too. This also is not really a Windows problem, but due to Google Chrome. Google does not seem in a hurry to fix it. Instead of Chrome you can use Edge (built in Windows), which runs more smoothly (scrolling) and scales fonts much better. If you want to keep using Chrome there are sites with tips about improving the scaling in Chrome.

If you are only used to MacOS and never have used Windows before, give it a couple of weeks to get used to. Windows 10 is more powerful than MacOS, but 'greater power' comes with more possibilities and settings. I have seen to many people who dismissed Windows after a couple of hours without really trying.

To sum it up:
- MacOS applications look a bit more uniform, MacOS seems easier to the user and more accessible in the beginning, but is more restrictive than Windows.
- Windows 10 has more variety in looks (due to legacy programs you can use), seems a bit more daunting in the beginning, but gives more freedom and possibilities than MacOS.

I use both in daily life and both have their weaknesses and strengths. But I must admit, I am turning more and more to Windows nowadays when I really want things done.

 

[Queen6]

The 'blocky' text you are seeing has nothing to do with Windows itself. The scaling of text in Windows 10 is on par with the Mac. The reasons you experience it as blocky can be one of the following:

1. The screen of the laptop/pc you are looking at in the shop is of lesser quality/lower resolution than the Mac you are used to.
2. Older windows programs (not updated in a long time) do not scale fonts as well as modern Windows programs.

1) Is easily solved by buying a PC with a quality screen/high screen resolution.
2) There is a myriad of old/new software to download for Windows from all kinds of sites. Varying from 'butt ugly' to look at to 'beautiful' to look at. Try to stick to modern programs or apps from the Microsoft store and you will be fine.

If you are only used to MacOS and never have used Windows before, give it a couple of weeks to get used to. Windows 10 is more powerful than MacOS these days, but 'greater power' comes with more possibilities and settings. I have seen to many people who dismissed Windows after a couple of hours without really trying.

To sum it up:
- MacOS applications look a bit more uniform, MacOS seems easier to the user, but is more restrictive than Windows.
- Windows 10 has more variety in looks (due to legacy programs you can use), seems a bit more daunting in the beginning, but gives more freedom than MacOS.

I use both in daily life and both have their weaknesses and strengths. But I must admit, I am turning more and more to Windows nowadays when I really want things done.

Tipping point for me was stability, now hardware and the more you work with the OS the more accustomed one becomes to it. Given Apple's current direction doubt I'll purchase another Mac; value no longer exists, with performance & reliability sliding in the wrong direction...

Q-6

 

[sracer]

I have a 2013 MacBook Pro - it's dented, the battery is getting bad and I'm forever getting "HHD nearly full" notifications. I'd like a new one.

But the current line-up doesn't look encouraging and I'm not confident that Apple will be moving the Mac forward.

I don't have any other Apple device (but my partner does if that matters).

Whenever I look at a PC in a shop, the thing that immediately strike me is that the text looks blocky. On a Mac it just looks nicer to the eye.

But other than that, will I really notice much if I move to PCs (like the XPS 13)? I spend most of my time in Chrome. I don't use Apple apps much any more.

Price isn't an issue.

You don't mention what type of things you do with your Macbook Pro and what you'll need this new device to do, but you did mention that you use Chrome "most of the time". Perhaps you might consider a Chromebook. How well a chromebook can serve one's needs depends greatly on (A) what needs to get done and (B) a willingness to "think different" about tasks... focus on WHAT needs to get done rather than HOW it has been done in the past.

I wouldn't recommend getting an entry-level model (it won't provide a good sample of chromeOS experience) nor a high-end model (although it will certainly be a great chromeOS experience, it is still a significant outlay for an unknown)

I suggest buying an Acer Chromebook 14 (they retail for $299, sometimes as low as $199) from an establishment with a good return policy. The Acer 14 has a strong Apple aesthetic. Build quality is very good, full HD display, with adequate performance. Kick the tires on it within the return window and see how well it serves your needs. That might not be enough time to get EVERYTHING sorted out, but you should have a good idea of how well it would do. If you find that it'll be a great fit for your needs, then you can return it and get something like the Google Pixelbook (or give the Acer to a family or friend who could use it, and get the Pixelbook anyways)

I would also suggest keeping the Macbook Pro. Clear it of anything that would be handled by the chromebook, and because the battery is tired, think of it as a "desktop" system. Reserve its use for those occasions where you need a full-strength desktop OS. I think the chromebook / MBP-as-a-desktop combo could work well and help ease the transition out of Apple land.

One of the many nice things about chromebooks is that Google will give you 100GB of cloud storage for 2 years. And whether you are at a higher storage tier like that or the basic level, all google docs files are exempt from those storage limits... i.e. no matter how large or how many google docs you have (docs, sheets, slides) they don't count against your available storage.

You are not alone in your observations and in the direction that you are considering. For me, there is absolutely no way that I'd "jump out of the frying pan and into the fire" by going from a macOS device to Windows 10. But that's me. Should Apple continue on its current trajectory (and it seems like they will), when I need to replace my existing macOS devices, I will move to something else other than Windows....Linux and ChromeOS. I already have 2 or 3 Linux distros picked out, and I know that I'll be able to replace our Macbook Airs (my wife has a 13" MBA, and I have an 11" MBA) with chromebooks without too much fuss.

 

[Tinmania]

My biggest issue with a Windows machine has nothing to do with Windows per se: Windows 10 itself works fine.

What I do not like is that on most machines you get a whole bunch of crap already installed--much of it outdated the very first time the machine is powered up. There are apps from the manufacturer (e.g., HP "Care"), apps from various accessory makers (trackpad, wifi chipset, etc.), and the assortment of trial apps and games. Much of the actual crap-ware can be removed, but it is a PITA, and there may be remnants of it around till the end of time. Worse is the included and already installed trial version of antivirus that has its tentacles throughout the whole machine. Ugh.

There are Windows laptops with little to no bloatware, but these are often higher-priced business targeted machines. I used to think Lenovo was a good option with little bloatware, but then came the Superfish incident.



Mike

 

[Mildredop]

Tipping point for me was stability,

You're saying that PCs are more stable than Macs?
[doublepost=1530112554][/doublepost]

My biggest issue with a Windows machine has nothing to do with Windows per se: Windows 10 itself works fine.

What I do not like is that on most machines you get a whole bunch of crap already installed--much of it outdated the very first time the machine is powered up. There are apps from the manufacturer (e.g., HP "Care"), apps from various accessory makers (trackpad, wifi chipset, etc.), and the assortment of trial apps and games. Much of the actual crap-ware can be removed, but it is a PITA, and there may be remnants of it around till the end of time. Worse is the included and already installed trial version of antivirus that has its tentacles throughout the whole machine. Ugh.

There are Windows laptops with little to no bloatware, but these are often higher-priced business targeted machines. I used to think Lenovo was a good option with little bloatware, but then came the Superfish incident.



Mike

Can you not do a "clean install" of Windows?
[doublepost=1530112853][/doublepost]

You don't mention what type of things you do with your Macbook Pro and what you'll need this new device to do, but you did mention that you use Chrome "most of the time".

Funnily enough, I bought a Chromebook a couple of years ago. I just couldn't get on with it, and needing it to be connected to the net for it to be useable made it a bit useless to me. And as I mentioned, I'm not necessarily looking for something on a budget.

I spend most of my time on the web (emails, Xero, news sites, porn, squarespace, forums etc.) and also use Pages quite a lot - often for doing more than just letters etc (we recently used it to do a plan of our garden). Is there a similarly easy WYSIWYG, drag-and-drop text/image program for Windows?

And if you wanted to do video editing, what's the go-to option?

 

[Dave245]

My issue with Windows (at least when I used it back in 2011) was that it seemed to slow down the machine I was using. I had PC’s before I switched to Mac and they were slowing down, laggy and just tiresome to use, when I switched over to a new MacBook Pro in 2011 it was a a joy and still is, the same can be said for my late 2012 iMac.

I like the look of the Surface Pro and even the Surface Book 2 BUT what puts me off BIG time is Windows.

 

[Queen6]

My biggest issue with a Windows machine has nothing to do with Windows per se: Windows 10 itself works fine.

What I do not like is that on most machines you get a whole bunch of crap already installed--much of it outdated the very first time the machine is powered up. There are apps from the manufacturer (e.g., HP "Care"), apps from various accessory makers (trackpad, wifi chipset, etc.), and the assortment of trial apps and games. Much of the actual crap-ware can be removed, but it is a PITA, and there may be remnants of it around till the end of time. Worse is the included and already installed trial version of antivirus that has its tentacles throughout the whole machine. Ugh.

There are Windows laptops with little to no bloatware, but these are often higher-priced business targeted machines. I used to think Lenovo was a good option with little bloatware, but then came the Superfish incident.



Mike

Cheaper Windows notebooks definitely, ones in the Mac price range tend not to be too bad. AV is definitely the most difficult to remove, best bet is to look at the AV providers support site as they generally provide an app (*.exe) to fully remove their unwanted product. If cant be found on US sites try the EU ones as the laws can be stricter regarding data privacy.

Q-6
[doublepost=1530114027][/doublepost]

You're saying that PCs are more stable than Macs?

For me yes, and my notebooks are very much a factor of my living being a QA/QC engineer in the energy industry. Mac's for me are perfectly stable under home usage, in the field on a project 4-6 days issue will arise guaranteed. Since switching to Windows 10 for my professional zero issue with the notebooks remaining up solidly for 4-6 weeks.

Here I'm not speaking of some exotic proprietary application, more Apple's own; Mail, Preview, Finder being the worst offender's...

Q-6

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

My issue with Windows (at least when I used it back in 2011) was that it seemed to slow down the machine I was using. I had PC’s before I switched to Mac and they were slowing down, laggy and just tiresome to use, when I switched over to a new MacBook Pro in 2011 it was a a joy and still is, the same can be said for my late 2012 iMac.

I like the look of the Surface Pro and even the Surface Book 2 BUT what puts me off BIG time is Windows.

Even on MacRumors nowadays there is agreement (except with some fanatics) that Windows 10 and MacOS are both solid capable OS's.

You are talking about your experiences in the year 2011. How is this relevant in 2018?
Lots of people tend to compare cheap Windows PC's to expensive Macs and than complain the PC is slower or the build quality is worse. Because of the lesser experience they conclude Windows is a bad OS. But saying 'Windows puts me off BIG time' sounds more like an emotional bias than a factual quality assessment.

 

[Dave245]

Even on MacRumors nowadays there is agreement (except with the religious fanatics) that Windows 10 and MacOS are both solid capable OS's. You are talking about the year 2011, how can that be relevant in 2018?

I was giving my experience with Windows and I wasn’t going to lie and pretend that it was this year, plus I was also talking about how I’ve found a Mac lasts longer and people still find that today.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I was giving my experience with Windows and I wasn’t going to lie and pretend that it was this year, plus I was also talking about how I’ve found a Mac lasts longer and people still find that today.

But that still leaves my question unanswered: How is that relevant in 2018? Seven years is a long long time in computer history.

 

[Dave245]

But that still leaves my question unanswered: How is that relevant in 2018? Seven years is a long long time in computer history.

Does it need to be relevant in 2018? the thread title doesn’t give a date. You seem really defensive about it, my post was about my experience in which I was clear, I stated the dates i.e 2011 and my experience.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Does it need to be relevant in 2018? the thread title doesn’t give a date. You seem really defensive about it, my post was about my experience in which I was clear, I stated the dates i.e 2011 and my experience.

I am not defensive. I was just asking a simple question.
The thread is about buying a Windows computer now in 2018 and is asking about Windows experiences now in 2018. So, yes, to me, it seems logical that it should be relevant in 2018.
Sorry if you see that as defensive, but it was not meant to be.

 

[Dave245]

I am not defensive. I was just asking a simple question.
The thread is about buying a Windows computer now in 2018 and is asking about Windows experiences now in 2018. So, yes, to me, it seems logical that it should be relevant in 2018.
Sorry if you see that as defensive, but it was not meant to be.

I’m not saying that Windows is bad in 2018, I don’t have experience with it since 2011. Because the OP mentioned about Mac I was comparing my experience.

I will say tho that the Surface Pro made by Microsoft looks to be a great device, I’ve just been put off by my past experiences and some of the comments I’ve seen on Twitter. However I’ll admit that I’d be willing to try one I’m just very reluctant to do so.

Ok that may be my mistake in the way I read it.

 

[Mildredop]

My issue with Windows (at least when I used it back in 2011) was that it seemed to slow down the machine I was using.

That's a long time ago - I would hope that's not the case anymore. Do you know if that's still the case?

EDIT:

Reading down the thread I got my answer. Thanks for the opinion but I was looking for feedback about the sort of Windows machine I could buy today rather than how they were seven years ago.

 

[borgranta]

The Microsoft Edge browser is available for iOS and Android which would enable their handoff feature to be used between mobile devices and windows computers and hopefully that fact will help you in your decision.

 

[maflynn]

But other than that, will I really notice much if I move to PCs (like the XPS 13)? I spend most of my time in Chrome. I don't use Apple apps much any more.

There will be differences for sure, and with MS there is a higher level if inconsistencies. Even long time Windows pundit complains about that.

Here's a for instance I deal with. To make a change to setting, you either have to go into the control panel (app/interface that predates windows 8), or go into settings (a universal app with new icons). In some cases you need to both. Here's another example, I want to change the power profile in on my windows laptop. I need to go to the power app in the control panel, make changes but then I also need to click on the battery icon on the notification center (lower right hand corner) and slide the rule to more power or more battery.

Windows allows you more freedom, control, and customization, with that there is a leaning curve.

Overall both platforms are stable and provide a wealth of tools to get a task done. It boils down to whether you want to spend $$ on Macs or generally speaking less $$ on a better equipped windows machine.

 

[Dave245]

It boils down to whether you want to spend $$ on Macs or generally speaking less $$ on a better equipped windows machine.

Depends which Windows machine tho as the Surface Book 2 for example is around the same price as a MacBook Pro. The good thing is that they often have sales on and reduced prices even on the official Surface page.

Personally if i was the OP and leaving Mac behind i would try the Surface Pro or the Surface Book 2, from what i've seen online they are given the best reviews by tech reviewers.

 

[maflynn]

Depends which Windows machine tho as the Surface Book 2 for example is around the same price as a MacBook Pro. The good thing is that they often have sales on and reduced prices even on the official Surface page.

That's why I said generally speaking

I had a Surface Book (the original), it was a good machine but all in all it was a bit underpowered and over priced compared to what other makers had. I'm now on a Razer which is a little cheaper then the MBP (not much trust me), but component wise, I have a more robust laptop. So I have a cheaper laptop (marginally I know), but one that is upgradeable and offers faster components.

 

[Dave245]

That's why I said generally speaking

I had a Surface Book (the original), it was a good machine but all in all it was a bit underpowered and over priced compared to what other makers had. I'm now on a Razer which is a little cheaper then the MBP (not much trust me), but component wise, I have a more robust laptop. So I have a cheaper laptop (marginally I know), but one that is upgradeable and offers faster components.

Fair point. Can I ask how did you find the Surface Book generally? Did it match up to the MacBook or MacBook Pro? Also I’ve been using a Mac since 2011 so I’m curious as to how Windows compares?

 

[maflynn]

Can I ask how did you find the Surface Book generally?

Many people had issues with the SB, at least early on. I was not one of them. It was a nice small light laptop that could turn into a tablet. The display was a bit heavy and windows 8 (and I guess 10) didn't help matters. I give Apple a lot of credit with iOS in that regard.

My main issues that I came to realize is for me 13" is just too small.

Comparing the SB to the MBP, I found the quality to be compatible, I was happy with the performance, but I think the MBP will be faster.

Windows vs. macOS is a different topic in the sense I don't think I can do it justice defining the differences. I manage servers and workstations for my job, so I'm comfortable with windows, but I do prefer macOS. Some things are just plain easier in macOS, where as you have more freedom in windows to make changes (this can be both good and bad). Overall both platforms have their own set of positives and negatives, its how do the positives align with your work flow and can you work around or accept the negatives.

 

[Dave245]

Many people had issues with the SB, at least early on. I was not one of them. It was a nice small light laptop that could turn into a tablet. The display was a bit heavy and windows 8 (and I guess 10) didn't help matters. I give Apple a lot of credit with iOS in that regard.

My main issues that I came to realize is for me 13" is just too small.

Comparing the SB to the MBP, I found the quality to be compatible, I was happy with the performance, but I think the MBP will be faster.

Windows vs. macOS is a different topic in the sense I don't think I can do it justice defining the differences. I manage servers and workstations for my job, so I'm comfortable with windows, but I do prefer macOS. Some things are just plain easier in macOS, where as you have more freedom in windows to make changes (this can be both good and bad). Overall both platforms have their own set of positives and negatives, its how do the positives align with your work flow and can you work around or accept the negatives.

I do like MacOS, I think this years update to Mojave will make it even better, it seems that Apple are bringing IOS features to the Mac, stacks is going to be so useful along with the dark mode, metadata on photos and the continuity camera sounds interesting.

The area that conflicts is in having to use a tablet and MacBook, while it’s good for certain tasks I have found over time that it can be annoying to move from one device to the other, for example if I’m drawing or taking notes on my iPad Pro but then I want to write especially for long sessions I then need to grab my Mac.

To me MacOS seems better than Windows BUT Microsoft have taken a gamble and tried something new with the Surface range, somthing I wish Apple would do.

 

[kasakka]

I use a MBP for work and Windows 10 desktop at home. For me the main negatives in Windows are inconsistent UI and annoying updates where it will want to restart or even wake a sleeping machine at inopportune times unless you spend the time to disable that crap as well as all the tracking etc crap MS forces on you. Laptops might also suffer from bundled apps and crappy vendor software for things like special keyboard functions.

For everyday use the OS is perfectly fine though. Most will be just using their favorite web browser with maybe an email app and some light file management and the experience for that is largely the same as OSX.

For the record I am extremely disappointed with my 2016 MBP as hardware. Screen is great, but keyboard is rubbish, Touchbar is useless, dongle hell is real and trackpad is unnecessarily large for no good reason. My previous 2013 MBP had none of these issues so I don’t feel I got any kind of upgrade when my work got me the new machine. Might go Surface Pro for my next one.

 

[pacmania1982]

I personally don't mind Windows as a platform once your machine is setup the way you like it.

If you do go to Windows, I would recommend getting one of the machines from the Microsoft Store that's labeled Signature Edition. This means its just Windows, without any bloatware. Most machines these days come preinstalled with a myriad of junk that you have to spend time removing. I mean yes you could leave it on, but you never know if any of these apps are doing things they shouldn't. Plus if you have things loading when Windows loads, its using extra memory and CPU that could be put towards more important tasks.

The second thing I would mention are drivers. For the most part in OS X, you plug something in and it automatically loads the appropriate driver (kext), or for printers say, automatically downloads the software. Windows has got a lot better with this in recent years but I can't comment on Windows 10 as I haven't used this feature yet.

There's a good video from Linus Tech Tips regarding Windows scaling and explaining why its so bad. You can see it here:

The fourth thing I'd like to mention which has been mentioned above by others, are Windows Updates. Usually we're pretty lucky in OS X that we only have point releases, which are installed as and when they come out. Windows on the other hand has Patch Tuesday. Patch Tuesday occurs on the second, and sometimes fourth, Tuesday of each month. When Microsoft regularly releases security patches for its software products. So you are prompted far more often to install hotfixes, security updates and other updates. Some updates break things sometimes and you might spend ages Googling and reading through the release notes of what are released in an attempt to fix whatever broke (we have to do this ALL the time at work and I'd say at least three times this year a Windows patch has broken something in production). Again, probably not so much of an issue for a home user, but still an annoyance none-the-less.

Finally - the way Microsoft have changed the deployment method of Windows 10. Every 6 months or so a BIG update comes out. The migration from one version to another is pretty painless compared to the past, but I still find it annoying. Basically Windows Update will download this update in the background once released and then prompt you to install. Its like installing a brand new version of Windows and them migrating your data and apps over. On slow machines, it can literally take hours and hours and hours. The clean up doesn't seem to happen automatically from what I've found. Generally when a big Windows 10 update comes down, my partners machine has a WINDOWS.OLD directory in C:\, its there just in case something doesn't work out and you have to roll back. Its a good idea in principle, but I've found that it leaves about 19GB of old stuff around which I've never disappears on its own. I could be mistaken but I am only going on my own personal experience. OS X installer does a nice job of cleaning up after a big update which is generally on a once yearly basis.

I hope this helps

pac
[doublepost=1530535937][/doublepost]

I use a MBP for work and Windows 10 desktop at home. For me the main negatives in Windows are inconsistent UI and annoying updates where it will want to restart or even wake a sleeping machine at inopportune times unless you spend the time to disable that crap as well as all the tracking etc crap MS forces on you. Laptops might also suffer from bundled apps and crappy vendor software for things like special keyboard functions.

For everyday use the OS is perfectly fine though. Most will be just using their favorite web browser with maybe an email app and some light file management and the experience for that is largely the same as OSX.

For the record I am extremely disappointed with my 2016 MBP as hardware. Screen is great, but keyboard is rubbish, Touchbar is useless, dongle hell is real and trackpad is unnecessarily large for no good reason. My previous 2013 MBP had none of these issues so I don’t feel I got any kind of upgrade when my work got me the new machine. Might go Surface Pro for my next one.

I have just bought the 2017 non-TouchBar MacBook Pro and can't rave enough about it. The keyboard on it is way better than the 2015 Retina MacBook I moved from. The butterfly 2 mechanism feels better. This may be simply because the laptop is thicker and the keys have more travel than on the other machine. I loved my 12" retina MacBook but now I'm editing more 4K video from my drone and GoPro, I needed something with more grunt. A similarly configured MacBook is cost prohibitive, so I went for the 13" MacBook Pro.

Having only been used to one port in the past, the dongle thing for me has never been an issue. I bought the multiport adapter when I purchased my MacBook which I've kept with the MacBook Pro, its attached to my power supply with Velcro, so I've always got it with me. But I simply replaced the cables for my external hard drives with ones that have USB C connectors on. I bought a memory stick with both USB A on and USB C for when I might need to transfer things to another machine without USB C on, I have a lightning to USB C cable for when I want to connect my iPhone(s) and iPad to transfer music or videos over. For me its not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

I just wanted to add my 2¢