For the price, Can’t beat the Max

[Htsi]

Having a stereo HomePod pair, I believe they sound better.
However, I am amazed with the nuances that were previously unheard.
this is a stellar product and I believe the best wireless product. Bluetooth headphones are crap, and I’m not for wires which has way better options than these.
Owners, Chime in

 

[Mac... nificent]

It's not the headphone design that I'm disappointed with. It's a beautiful design. However, for headphones that cost this much, they certainly should support a better Bluetooth Codec. Really disappointed that they do not support codecs like aptX HD or LDAC. I am very tempted to sell my Max and instead get a set of Audeze planar magnetic headphones.

​

 

[nrvna76]

If Sony XM4’s are $280, then I can see how they landed where they did with the price of the Max with the materials and build quality, auto switching, and spatial audio. I know nothing about the Bluetooth codec stuff, I just know I love using these headphones.

I still wish they were cheaper, but Apple rarely accommodates that anyways.. I could have chosen the XM4 instead..

 

[dandrewk]

It's not the headphone design that I'm disappointed with. It's a beautiful design. However, for headphones that cost this much, they certainly should support a better Bluetooth Codec. Really disappointed that they do not support codecs like aptX HD or LDAC. I am very tempted to sell my Max and instead get a set of Audeze planar magnetic headphones.

​

The odds or Apple licensing LDAC from Sony are zero. Sony is in direct competition with Apple here, and Apple would never pay for a codec that is marginally (if that) better than AAC.

And what are the chances that Apple and Qualcomm (given their history) would ever licens anything with each other? Again, pretty much zero.

Even with something like aptX and good phones like the APMs, I wonder how many people (even discerning listeners) could tell the difference between codecs. First, you'd need to listen to uncompressed audio (or Tidal's MQ). Then, you'd need a higher end set of cans, and in that case you'd never settle for BT.

What would be great if Apple gave us a wired method to give us access to the digital stream, and we can use our own DAC. But in the meantime, the APMs are about as good a set of BT headphones on the market.

 

[Mac... nificent]

What would be great if Apple gave us a wired method to give us access to the digital stream, and we can use our own DAC.

I bought a DAC for this very reason. Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well with the Airpods Max headphones. I'm hoping that Apple realizes AAC is the weak point of the headphones and maybe come out with a refined version (AAC-HD?). I don't see the headphones as being the weak link. It's garbage in, garbage out, which is why I'm looking into using either Vox or Audirvana+.

 

[Htsi]

It's not the headphone design that I'm disappointed with. It's a beautiful design. However, for headphones that cost this much, they certainly should support a better Bluetooth Codec. Really disappointed that they do not support codecs like aptX HD or LDAC. I am very tempted to sell my Max and instead get a set of Audeze planar magnetic headphones.

​

Even though these are the best headphones I’ve ever owned. I agree with you. It is high time Apple Music came out with a lossless tier & their first party products should support it.
the arguments of no difference or not have their merits. But this is “Max” & “pro” & “2021”. Will make these even better, hope it’s a software thing and won’t need new hardware.

 

[Htsi]

If Sony XM4’s are $280, then I can see how they landed where they did with the price of the Max with the materials and build quality, auto switching, and spatial audio. I know nothing about the Bluetooth codec stuff, I just know I love using these headphones.

I still wish they were cheaper, but Apple rarely accommodates that anyways.. I could have chosen the XM4 instead..

Same, knew the price going in, and there’s nothing else that has the H1 or W1 chip. Dealbreaker. Have a pair of momentum TW & don’t use them even though they sound better than my AirPods Pro

 

[Htsi]

The odds or Apple licensing LDAC from Sony are zero. Sony is in direct competition with Apple here, and Apple would never pay for a codec that is marginally (if that) better than AAC.

And what are the chances that Apple and Qualcomm (given their history) would ever licens anything with each other? Again, pretty much zero.

Even with something like aptX and good phones like the APMs, I wonder how many people (even discerning listeners) could tell the difference between codecs. First, you'd need to listen to uncompressed audio (or Tidal's MQ). Then, you'd need a higher end set of cans, and in that case you'd never settle for BT.

What would be great if Apple gave us a wired method to give us access to the digital stream, and we can use our own DAC. But in the meantime, the APMs are about as good a set of BT headphones on the market.

Choice is good, why not. These are over-engineered anyways. Why not go even further and complete the case

 

[Htsi]

I bought a DAC for this very reason. Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well with the Airpods Max headphones. I'm hoping that Apple realizes AAC is the weak point of the headphones and maybe come out with a refined version (AAC-HD?). I don't see the headphones as being the weak link. It's garbage in, garbage out, which is why I'm looking into using either Vox or Audirvana+.

Yes because
AM accepts digital then makes it analog. If you use DAC, ie wired
You’re doing this:
Digital->Analog->Digital->Analog

Wired to me is for latency only

 

[Mac... nificent]

the arguments of no difference or not have their merits. But this is “Max” & “pro” & “2021”. Will make these even better, hope it’s a software thing and won’t need new hardware.

I agree. Also, the audio section of most new Macs is surprisingly weak, which is why I switched to using a DAC.

You can try out using either Vox or Audirvana+, they also make a difference.

 

[dandrewk]

I bought a DAC for this very reason. Unfortunately, it doesn't work very well with the Airpods Max headphones. I'm hoping that Apple realizes AAC is the weak point of the headphones and maybe come out with a refined version (AAC-HD?). I don't see the headphones as being the weak link. It's garbage in, garbage out, which is why I'm looking into using either Vox or Audirvana+.

Sadly, I don't think there is anyway APMs can accept an analog stream. Improving the codec would be welcome, however I rather doubt it will happen as most users would never be able to tell the difference, especially at 192-256 kbps.

For me, for focused listening periods, I use Focals with a Dragonfly DAC. For all else, the APMs are about as good as I could hope for while watching video.

 

[MayaTlab]

I'm hoping that Apple realizes AAC is the weak point of the headphones

It's not. It's the frequency response curve at your own eardrum. On test rigs the APM shows deviations from the FR curve targets that Harman's research tends to demonstrate sounds the most agreeable to most people in the 1000-5000hz range. It's debatable whether that target should be matched exactly, ad headphones measurements shouldn't be interpreted literally, but the APM can probably take a few more dBs somewhere in that range and most people would find the result better sounding. Above 5000hz there is too much variation across individuals' anatomy to make measurements that relevant but quite a few people have commented on how uneven the trebles's FR curve is to their own ears.

Apple AirPods Max Measurements - Brüel & Kjær 5128

Fig.1 (above): Apple AirPods Max frequency response, average of three seatings. Fig.1 (above): Apple AirPods Max THD (total harmonic distortion) at 90 dBSPL, 100 dBSPL, 110 dBSPL. The measurements in this post were made using: Brüel & Kjær High-frequency Head and Torso Simulator (HATS) Type...

www.head-fi.org

Apple AirPods Max – In-Ear Fidelity

crinacle.com

Oratory Grapher Headphones

Plot frequency response measurements from our database using Oratory Grapher Headphones

headphonedatabase.com

I have a Qudelix 5K at home (a bluetooth / DAC / amp receiver) at home and using the AAC codec vs. LDAC makes far less of a difference than adjusting my headphones' FR curve with its parametric EQ (even though the quality of its AAC implementation is likely to be less optimal than Apple's - variability in codec's implementation, even at the same bitrate, is a thing).

I'd love to see Apple introduce a less lossy codec but you'd be sorely disappointed by the resulting difference if they didn't alter the FR curve at the same time.

 

[ZeChild]

Anyone thinking that APM's will sound better wired through a DAC/Amp are sadly mistaken the adaptive EQ will wipe that out straight away.

Sadly they didn't want to build in the ability to turn Adaptive EQ off, the only way for these to sound better would be for Apple to update the firmware to accept higher bitrate codecs which is doable but it's got a downside, it probably means they'd update Apple Music with these codecs too, potentially leading to a premium tier subscription for Apple Music.

Unless they went the way of movies bought through iTunes where they automatically replaced them with 4K where available, Doubtful!

 

[AreYouIn?]

I loved they way they sounded. I ended up returning mine because they squeezed so tight my jaw felt like I had been grinding my teeth at night. No amount of stretching or adjusting seems to help.

 

[UBS28]

Come on man, Let's be realistic here. Even the old Sony WH-1000XM3 destroy the APM spec wise and feature wise. It is not even close. And soundwise, they sound quite similar. The APM has more treble and less bass, but you can tune the WH-1000XM3 as it has an onboard EQ.

If Apple included:
- case
- long ass battery life
- an app (like Apple Watch) to customize / tweak the APM like the way you want (both the Sony WH-1000XM3 and Bose NC 700 can be customized the way you want it)
- support HiFi codecs

Then you can argue it is better.

For work, I tend to use the B&W P7W, Sony WH-1000XM3 or Bose NC 700 because sometimes the mic of the APM doesn't work with certain applications. Maybe it is fixed with the latest firmware, but I am not taking my chances again for professional use. For professional use, I need to it work 100% with every application.

 

[dandrewk]

Come on man, Let's be realistic here. Even the old Sony WH-1000XM3 destroy the APM spec wise and feature wise. It is not even close. And soundwise, they sound quite similar. The APM has more treble and less bass, but you can tune the WH-1000XM3 as it has an onboard EQ.

If Apple included:
- case
- long ass battery life
- an app (like Apple Watch) to customize / tweak the APM like the way you want (both the Sony WH-1000XM3 and Bose NC 700 can be customized the way you want it)
- support HiFi codecs

Then you can argue it is better.

For work, I tend to use the B&W P7W, Sony WH-1000XM3 or Bose NC 700 because sometimes the mic of the APM doesn't work with certain applications. Maybe it is fixed with the latest firmware, but I am not taking my chances again for professional use. For professional use, I need to it work 100% with every application.

Does Sony auto connect with Apple devices? I had a pair, and it was always a PITA to change back and forth depending on what I listened to.

Does Sony have Spatial Audio? For anyone who watches video with Dolby 5.1/Atmos, it's a game changer. The compatible media sources will only grow.

No issues at all with battery life for me. I actually like and prefer the case over the boring, same old same old clamshells.

You really want to claim the Bose app as something desirable? Ever try using it? And talk about battery drain issues...

Like all first generation products, there will be glitches. APMs have been relatively free of them.

Sure, the M3 has AptX. But it was dropped for M4. Apparently Qualcomm is (once again), overly proud of its proprietary technology. And to appreciate AptX, you will need a wired connection with a high quality (expensive) DAC and pricey source material.

I'd hardly call that "destroy"...

 

[TriApple]

Recently new owner of AirPods Max and have been using them for voice chat, calls, music, gaming extensively.

I also happen to own a pretty good spectrum of other ANC headphones (QC15, QC25, Bose 700, MX3, Audeze Mobius).

In terms of being able to support all of those use cases for someone heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem... yeah, wow, they are fantastic. Quite honestly, they are not #1 for any of those use cases compared to that group - they do well in each, sure, but lead in none for me).

I'm going to keep at it for another week or so before I decide if I'll return them, right now I'm leaning towards no, which you may find odd, but here's how I've been thinking about it... I remember old iPhone reviews saying "the best camera is the one you have on you and use".

Honestly, none of those other headphones have been worn as much in a similar time period ever. I'm currently listening to more music, taking more calls on the same headphones, etc.

So at least for my use cases and devices (again, heavy apple: iMac, MacBook, iPhone, etc) they win the battle because they do well enough at everything and sit inside my device ecosystem (the ease of switching devices, etc) so well.

 

[Htsi]

These bring about the combo of sound quality and convenience. I’m in the ecosystem and nothing comes close.

 

[UBS28]

Does Sony auto connect with Apple devices? I had a pair, and it was always a PITA to change back and forth depending on what I listened to.

Does Sony have Spatial Audio? For anyone who watches video with Dolby 5.1/Atmos, it's a game changer. The compatible media sources will only grow.

No issues at all with battery life for me. I actually like and prefer the case over the boring, same old same old clamshells.

You really want to claim the Bose app as something desirable? Ever try using it? And talk about battery drain issues...

Like all first generation products, there will be glitches. APMs have been relatively free of them.

Sure, the M3 has AptX. But it was dropped for M4. Apparently Qualcomm is (once again), overly proud of its proprietary technology. And to appreciate AptX, you will need a wired connection with a high quality (expensive) DAC and pricey source material.

I'd hardly call that "destroy"...

Sony has had 3D audio for ages already and you can also buy a Dolby app for very little money so that you get "surround sound" with any type of headphone.

The Apple "surround sound" doesn't even work with my TV, while the app from Dobly does work with my TV and other devices. The Apple "surround sound' doesn't even work with Mac's either. So not sure why you call it a game changer.

Just look at the spec sheet and what is in the box. The Sony WH-1000XM3 destroys the APM on features. The best thing is, I only paid $100 for it on black friday.

Apple has to include many more features and include a case in order to justify the $550 price tag.

And auto-switching is nothing new. Bose has been doing that for ages already. My Sony WH-1000XM3 doesn't do it, but since I only paid $100 for it, I don't really care about it.

Fine you have no issues with battery on the APM, but the Sony WH-1000XM3 destroys the APM on battery life. And these headphones are not even in the same price class.

 

[dandrewk]

Sony has had 3D audio for ages already and you can also buy a Dolby app for very little money so that you get "surround sound" with any type of headphone.

The Apple "surround sound" doesn't even work with my TV, while the app from Dobly does work with my TV and other devices. The Apple "surround sound' doesn't even work with Mac's either. So not sure why you call it a game changer.

Just look at the spec sheet and what is in the box. The Sony WH-1000XM3 destroys the APM on features. The best thing is, I only paid $100 for it on black friday.

Apple has to include many more features and include a case in order to justify the $550 price tag.

And auto-switching is nothing new. Bose has been doing that for ages already. My Sony WH-1000XM3 doesn't do it, but since I only paid $100 for it, I don't really care about it.

Fine you have no issues with battery on the APM, but the Sony WH-1000XM3 destroys the APM on battery life. And these headphones are not even in the same price class.

So much inaccuracy here. Clearly, you have some agenda. Do you work for Sony? Let's not forget, this thread was posted by someone who thinks the APMs were awesome? What compelled you to thread crap?

I have the Sony M3 and the Bose. If you think that Sony's 3D audio or any third party app is going to approach Spatial Audio, then you have never, ever used it with the APMs. One uses artificial manipulation to simulate a wider listening field. The other uses the actual Dolby coding to replicate what you would hear in a theater. One is 100% fake, the other is determined by the film maker. 3D audio gives me a headache. Spatial Audio is a pleasure to listen to.

Yes, we all know what devices work with Spatial Audio. If you have done any research, you wouldn't need to make that comment.

I've compared the spec sheet. Sony doesn't "destroy" Apple in any spec.

Bose has no auto-switching that works. It's so bad, I don't see how they get away with claiming it exists. Read the forums, do some research.

I'm glad you saved so much money in buying the M3s. As I own them, I can attest to their outstanding quality. Just don't come here in an obvious personal quest to justify your buying decision.

I'm not responding to any more posts, the thread hijack ends here.

 

[TriApple]

Sony has had 3D audio for ages already and you can also buy a Dolby app for very little money so that you get "surround sound" with any type of headphone.

The Apple "surround sound" doesn't even work with my TV, while the app from Dobly does work with my TV and other devices. The Apple "surround sound' doesn't even work with Mac's either. So not sure why you call it a game changer.

Just look at the spec sheet and what is in the box. The Sony WH-1000XM3 destroys the APM on features. The best thing is, I only paid $100 for it on black friday.

Apple has to include many more features and include a case in order to justify the $550 price tag.

And auto-switching is nothing new. Bose has been doing that for ages already. My Sony WH-1000XM3 doesn't do it, but since I only paid $100 for it, I don't really care about it.

Fine you have no issues with battery on the APM, but the Sony WH-1000XM3 destroys the APM on battery life. And these headphones are not even in the same price class.

FWIW my anecdotal experience as a Bose owner, MX3 owner, and APM.

the Bose auto switching didn’t work well across my devices. It would sometimes but infrequently.

just now I am flipping back and forth from a Teams meeting on my iMac to incoming phone calls on my phone - APM is gracefully handing it w/o issue.

my notes on comparison are above so it’s not all glory for the APM bit they do have pluses comparatively.

 

[UBS28]

FWIW my anecdotal experience as a Bose owner, MX3 owner, and APM.

the Bose auto switching didn’t work well across my devices. It would sometimes but infrequently.

just now I am flipping back and forth from a Teams meeting on my iMac to incoming phone calls on my phone - APM is gracefully handing it w/o issue.

my notes on comparison are above so it’s not all glory for the APM bit they do have pluses comparatively.

I own those 3 bluetooth headphones too. There was a firmware update last year that broke the auto-switching. But before that, the auto-switching worked flawless. Not sure if the latest firmware restored it, since I have only used it for calls (I have not taken a flight for a while).

I have had some issues with the APM auto-switching in some meetings in the past where I could hear people but people couldn't hear me talk (no idea where the APM was routing the audio of the Mic to, but it did not go to the correct place). So I simply don't trust it anymore. Maybe it is fixed with the latest firmware, but I am not going to take that gamble anymore when I have other headphones that I can 100% rely on for meetings. The only calls I make with the APM, is with my iPhone as that has never failed me.

 

[TriApple]

I own those 3 bluetooth headphones too. There was a firmware update last year that broke the auto-switching. But before that, the auto-switching worked flawless. Not sure if the latest firmware restored it, since I have only used it for calls (I have not taken a flight for a while).

I have had some issues with the APM auto-switching in some meetings in the past where I could hear people but people couldn't hear me talk (no idea where the APM was routing the audio of the Mic to, but it did not go to the correct place). So I simply don't trust it anymore. Maybe it is fixed with the latest firmware, but I am not going to take that gamble anymore when I have other headphones that I can 100% rely on for meetings. The only calls I make with the APM, is with my iPhone as that has never failed me.

Additionally the APM sound significantly better for me than the Bose. I like them better than the MX3 when ANC is on for both - I find the MX3 very muddy with ANC on. With ANC off, I'm not ready to say which I like better for sound fidelity necessarily, but the fact that I can't decide yet tells me it is close enough.

Again, I maintain that these are great if they are what you are looking for - they are a unique market entrant and not for the flight ANC person, the gamer, the music snob, the headphone enthusiast, the apple lover.

They are for someone that wants a bit of all of that in a single device but is willing to acknowledge it is not #1 at any (except integration in the apple ecosystem). If that's you, and $549 is not a huge deal, they are absolutely fantastic. If I end up keeping them they will replace all my ANC headphone and my Audeze Mobius.

If you want "the best" at a specific use case, they are not right for you, price range regardless.

 

[TriApple]

I own those 3 bluetooth headphones too. There was a firmware update last year that broke the auto-switching. But before that, the auto-switching worked flawless. Not sure if the latest firmware restored it, since I have only used it for calls (I have not taken a flight for a while).

I have had some issues with the APM auto-switching in some meetings in the past where I could hear people but people couldn't hear me talk (no idea where the APM was routing the audio of the Mic to, but it did not go to the correct place). So I simply don't trust it anymore. Maybe it is fixed with the latest firmware, but I am not going to take that gamble anymore when I have other headphones that I can 100% rely on for meetings. The only calls I make with the APM, is with my iPhone as that has never failed me.

Also, interesting, I wonder if I can downgrade the Bose to get back on another firmware. I'll have to look into that. I do remember at one point they worked well for me. I stopped using them when the switching failed, it infuriated me every time it failed.

 

[Cashmonee]

The selling point of any AirPod is the integration. Other than that, there are better alternatives ”for the money” or often much less. And the integration really only becomes an issue for the 3rd device. All of the current headphones in this space do a good job switching between 2 devices. The third is when things can fall apart. Having said that, the AirPod line is perfect at this either. My AirPod Pro often get confused or “lose” one of the earbuds.

For me the real barrier for the APM is their design. They are too heavy to wear for extended periods and seem to simply not be a travel headphone. Get it to 300g or less and put them in a proper case and now we are talking.

Incidentally, those defending the case. Just stop. It is ridiculous and you know it. There is no situation in which that joke is better than a true case.