For the price, you can beat the AirPods Max.

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

I've tried the XM4's, AirPods Max, Bose 700, and settled on the Beoplay HX, which I've had roughly since launch.

Bose sound is... Synthetic in a way that reminds me of the AirPods Pro. The XM4's with eq'ing produce some decent sound, the build is functional and lightweight, but they induce a kind of ear sweat as if I've walked into a sauna within about an hour, likewise with the Bose albeit to a lesser extent. APM & the Beoplay's result in no such thing.

For a mini review: the Beoplay HX's sound is markedly more natural to me on the default tuning (dubbed "Optimal") and seems to lack the muddied mids and horrid bass shelf present on the APM. And yes, I've tried "headphone accommodations" on the APM, no it was not that helpful. The soundstage with the HX's is similarly wide, but they retain a sort of audible proximity that the APM don't have, never felt like vocals were *present between my ears when they should have been*. Moreover, the Beoplays are substantially lighter (285G!), result in *less sweat than even the APM*, have a USB-C port, are capable of charging at up to 15W, last almost twice as long in my real-world use, posses a standard 3.5MM jack, an off button, AptX adaptive (great for low latency given a compatible device) and a functional case. Transparency mode is almost as good, as well, (thanks, Qualcomm?).

The *only* downside is the ANC, it just really isn't up to par with Sony/Apple/Bose, though in part due to the design that won't obstruct as much noise passively as would earmuff-esque larger headphones. It's still good, but if your only interest in headphones is for travel I'd shy away for that reason.


Regardless I highly recommend the Beoplay HX to anyone looking for a better pair of headphones modulo the weight, needless design exravagance + frequency response tinkering Apple engaged in with the APM. Probably these comparisons will only grow in number as similar competitors update their lineups, some of which can clearly best Apple's flagship (or halo product, who knows.) A Master and Dynamic MW65 update to BT 5.1/5.2 would be a candidate.

 

[mystery hill]

AirPods Max have a few additional benefits.

• Easier pairing
• If you're signed in to iCloud, your AirPods are set up automatically with any of your supported devices that are signed in to iCloud with the same Apple ID.
• Spatial audio
• Higher resale value

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

AirPods Max have a few additional benefits.

• Easier pairing
• If you're signed in to iCloud, your AirPods are set up automatically with any of your supported devices that are signed in to iCloud with the same Apple ID.
• Spatial audio
• Higher resale value

1. Not really. This hasn’t been that meaningful since BT 5.0. In fact, connectivity suffered more dropouts on the APM than the XM4, minimal on the other two.
2. .... so for the first week of ownership that’s nice.
3. Here I will agree, I’ve been pretty sour on the spatial audio hype until I tried it with the APM, it’s not the second coming but it’s 7-8/10.
4. Headphones aren’t phones, or even laptops. I, presumably like others, intend to keep headphones until they cease to function.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

1. Not really. This hasn’t been that meaningful since BT 5.0. In fact, connectivity suffered more dropouts on the APM than the XM4, minimal on the other two.
2. .... so for the first week of ownership that’s nice.
3. Here I will agree, I’ve been pretty sour on the spatial audio hype until I tried it with the APM, it’s not the second coming but it’s 7-8/10.
4. Headphones aren’t phones, or even laptops. I, presumably like others, intend to keep headphones until they cease to function.

I still use the AKG-55 headset I bought in 2002. What can I say, they produce great (to me) sound.

 

[Cashmonee]

Thanks for the review!

The HX to me was a bit thin. They lacked in low end and the sound was too bright. I found the H95 sound far superior, but then we are talking a large jump in price as well. The other issues I had with the HX were the finicky controls and a louder than acceptable (to me) hiss in transparency mode. The other issue was there round earcups were not a match for me. To be sure, the HX does fix many of the APM issues. Better battery, real case, better comfort, USB-C.

As for the whole "you can't beat the APM for the money" idea that you are referring to, I think that statement is ridiculous. I think the APM are a solid pair of headphones. I am still deciding whether to keep mine or not. But that statement makes it seem like they are a good deal at $550 and I am sorry to say, that is simply not the case. Even if they fixed all the issues with the APM, $550 is overpriced. Any idea that they are a good value is kind of ridiculous and that is what that statement implies. So I agree with you, for the price, you definitely can beat the AirPods Max. It is just a matter of what compromises you are willing to make.

 

[dandrewk]

As for the whole "you can't beat the APM for the money" idea that you are referring to, I think that statement is ridiculous. I think the APM are a solid pair of headphones. I am still deciding whether to keep mine or not. But that statement makes it seem like they are a good deal at $550 and I am sorry to say, that is simply not the case. Even if they fixed all the issues with the APM, $550 is overpriced. Any idea that they are a good value is kind of ridiculous and that is what that statement implies. So I agree with you, for the price, you definitely can beat the AirPods Max. It is just a matter of what compromises you are willing to make.

The title of the thread is "you CAN beat the APM for the money".

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

The title of the thread is "you CAN beat the APM for the money".

I’m mocking another forum member’s hyperbolic take on yet another premium but lukewarm Apple product. See “You can’t beat the APM for the money.”

He (Cashmonee) is explicitly laying out his convergence with my own assessment, e.g. that the APM are a decent pair of prosumer/premium headphones but do not ultimately justify the cost, especially in light of alternatives.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

Thanks for the review!

The HX to me was a bit thin. They lacked in low end and the sound was too bright. I found the H95 sound far superior, but then we are talking a large jump in price as well. The other issues I had with the HX were the finicky controls and a louder than acceptable (to me) hiss in transparency mode. The other issue was there round earcups were not a match for me. To be sure, the HX does fix many of the APM issues. Better battery, real case, better comfort, USB-C.

As for the whole "you can't beat the APM for the money" idea that you are referring to, I think that statement is ridiculous. I think the APM are a solid pair of headphones. I am still deciding whether to keep mine or not. But that statement makes it seem like they are a good deal at $550 and I am sorry to say, that is simply not the case. Even if they fixed all the issues with the APM, $550 is overpriced. Any idea that they are a good value is kind of ridiculous and that is what that statement implies. So I agree with you, for the price, you definitely can beat the AirPods Max. It is just a matter of what compromises you are willing to make.

Yep, completely agree unfortunately even a bit on the thin part with the HX, so I still think the XM4’s have a great gym (upbeat, with relatively high end fidelity but a bit more bass oomph) sound profile once EQ’d, but more generally enjoy the HX. The APM just felt like a bad compromise between them IMO.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

I’d like to see what Sony could drum up in terms of consumer^1 ANC headphones given a budget of $550. Probably we’ll find out eventually lol

1: Sony have multiple arms in terms of audio, certainly they have plenty of studio monitors marked up to the moon. But the focus here is clearly on the consoooomer line.

 

[nStyle]

You can pry my qc35ii’s off my cold dead ears.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

You can pry my qc35ii’s off my cold dead ears.

I can respect it

 

[nrvna76]

Thanks for the review!

The HX to me was a bit thin. They lacked in low end and the sound was too bright. I found the H95 sound far superior, but then we are talking a large jump in price as well. The other issues I had with the HX were the finicky controls and a louder than acceptable (to me) hiss in transparency mode. The other issue was there round earcups were not a match for me. To be sure, the HX does fix many of the APM issues. Better battery, real case, better comfort, USB-C.

As for the whole "you can't beat the APM for the money" idea that you are referring to, I think that statement is ridiculous. I think the APM are a solid pair of headphones. I am still deciding whether to keep mine or not. But that statement makes it seem like they are a good deal at $550 and I am sorry to say, that is simply not the case. Even if they fixed all the issues with the APM, $550 is overpriced. Any idea that they are a good value is kind of ridiculous and that is what that statement implies. So I agree with you, for the price, you definitely can beat the AirPods Max. It is just a matter of what

You guys are starting to get confusing. Saying that the APM can definitely be ‘beat’ for the money, and then stating the beoplay Hx doesn’t ‘beat’ it (it’s $50 cheaper) but that the H95 does (its $849).

I just don’t think it’s easy to say they can or can’t be beat for the money, it just depends on what you like, and what factors play into your decisions to part with your hard earned money.

I certainly wouldn’t characterize the APM as a ‘lukewarm’ product. I certainly love mine.

 

[Cashmonee]

You guys are starting to get confusing. Saying that the APM can definitely be ‘beat’ for the money, and then stating the beoplay Hx doesn’t ‘beat’ it (it’s $50 cheaper) but that the H95 does (its $849).

I just don’t think it’s easy to say they can or can’t be beat for the money, it just depends on what you like, and what factors play into your decisions to part with your hard earned money.

I certainly wouldn’t characterize the APM as a ‘lukewarm’ product. I certainly love mine.

I guess I was just having a reaction to the original thread that said you can't beat them for the money. It made it sound like they were a great value, and to me that is not the case. I think the are very good. I also think they are not a good value. That does not mean I won't keep mine (I am leaning toward keeping them at the moment). But if we are talking value and getting beat, there are many ways you could do better than the APM if you are not concerned with certain features.

In my view, I would only recommend the APM to someone who wanted pleasing sound, was all in on Apple, and was not concerned about price. If you hit those bullets, then I would suggest purchasing from somewhere with a long return window like Amazon or Best Buy (for certain levels of My Best Buy members) due to a good chance that you will need more than 2 weeks to see if they are comfortable for you.

If someone doesn't fit that specific criteria, I think there are better options out there for them. For sound quality, I would look at Sennheiser Momentum 3, B&O H9 3rd Gen, HX, or H95, or getting a something like QC-35 or sale priced XM4 and pairing them with a good wired headphone with DAC and amp. If you just want great ANC and transparency and are not too bothered by sound or like the Sony sound, then the XM4 are better. If calls are really important, the NC700 are a good option.

 

[Ethosik]

I am not sure how the other devices you listed match up. But I had a Sennheiser PXC 550 that my AirPods Max replaced. EVERY SINGLE DAY I had to clear out the pairing list on the Sennheiser because there was a limit, and yes I had that many devices I use daily. Also, it would ALWAYS connect to two at once. So I would need to scramble to turn off EVERY OTHER DEVICES bluetooth because if an alert came through, it switched to the other device.

Again, not sure if the others that you mention solves those two major complaints I have. But the AirPods Max solves both of these issues. Oh and the PXC 550 at the time I got them was $400 with tax and shipping. So the AirPods are not THAT much more expensive, and the ecosystem and automatic switching makes up for the difference IMO.

Edit: One more thing I forgot to mention, I have had to replace the ear pieces on my Sennheiser a few times (I got them in 2015 after all). It would always take 10-15 minutes. With the AirPods Max, it is literally seconds.

 

[dandrewk]

I’m mocking another forum member’s hyperbolic take on yet another premium but lukewarm Apple product. See “You can’t beat the APM for the money.”

He (Cashmonee) is explicitly laying out his convergence with my own assessment, e.g. that the APM are a decent pair of prosumer/premium headphones but do not ultimately justify the cost, especially in light of alternatives.

It seems several here are confused with the thread title. The sarcasm was not at all obvious.

BTW, disagree with you, mainly on one point: Spatial Audio. No, I'm not talking about the head tracking I'm talking about simulating a theater sound system using Dolby encoding. Nobody else has that feature, not for any amount of money.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

It seems several here are confused with the thread title. The sarcasm was not at all obvious.

BTW, disagree with you, mainly on one point: Spatial Audio. No, I'm not talking about the head tracking I'm talking about simulating a theater sound system using Dolby encoding. Nobody else has that feature, not for any amount of money.

It wasn’t sarcasm - I meant it - every word in the title! Some banter by way of the mockery, yes.

I mean I certainly think it gets way too much praise, RE Spatial Audio. It’s not a game changer, frankly USB-C alone is > for me.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

Frankly half of the horror stories with Bluetooth (usually noticeable immediately upon using the product e.g. not a function of time independent of bluetooth version) seem to be associated with devices using protocols earlier than BT 5.0.

I’m willing to bet that between Bluetooth SIG advances (see 5.2 & the LC3 codec or stereo TWS streaming for ex) & Google + Qualcomm’s initiatives (Fast Pair, Snapdragon Sound), a great deal of the more salient advantages the AirPods & Apple device pairs carry will evaporate, at least for users outside the Fruit ecosystem looking onward.

And Apple will still heed to the latest BT profile for new devices, so should 5.2 & on become a leg up from the Bluetooth we know and hate, Apple devices will reap the benefits too....

Bluetooth, probably for technical reasons fixed to it’s short-range convenience, still feels like a laggard of a standard relative to WiFi. But I’ve a hard time looking at the last decade and taking seriously the idea that Bluetooth, particularly Bluetooth audio, is as atrocious as it was in, IDK, ~ 2013. Edited Addendum: Which is to say that Bluetooth audio is just not that bad in 2020 with relatively modernized protocols across the chain.

 

[nrvna76]

I love mine. That’s all I know. ?‍♂️

 

[dandrewk]

I mean I certainly think it gets way too much praise, RE Spatial Audio. It’s not a game changer, frankly USB-C alone is > for me.

I suspect many who watch video in their home don't care nearly as much about audio as they do when listening to music. I've been in homes where the owner would have some high priced Senns or Focals and watch video with the speakers built into their video display.

I'm curious - do you ever listen to a Dolby Atmos soundtrack critically, the way you might with music? By this I mean not watching the video, but listening closely and intently to only the soundtrack. I did that with Bose 700s with 3d audio (or whatever they call it) and it sounded exactly as it is: A stereo mix with an artificially enhanced sound stage.

Not so Spatial Audio. Sounds that emanate from the rear, left or right are all properly aligned for placement, volume and EQ. Explosions fill the spectrum, but don't sound like a mishmash of loud sounds. It has presence and atmosphere. Dialogue has realistic sounding echo, a spatial feeling. The ".1" in Dolby 5.1 has a visceral feeling, odd because there are no sound waves impacting the viscera. IOW, it sounds like a theater.

If anyone wants to try listening to the soundtrack alone, be sure swap between Spatial Audio on/off. Listening to something like the new Justice league or Godzilla, the difference is quite profound.

 

[Robbosan]

For a couple of hundred extra would rather have something that works.
Best you can buy to use with phone calls.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

I suspect many who watch video in their home don't care nearly as much about audio as they do when listening to music. I've been in homes where the owner would have some high priced Senns or Focals and watch video with the speakers built into their video display.

I'm curious - do you ever listen to a Dolby Atmos soundtrack critically, the way you might with music? By this I mean not watching the video, but listening closely and intently to only the soundtrack. I did that with Bose 700s with 3d audio (or whatever they call it) and it sounded exactly as it is: A stereo mix with an artificially enhanced sound stage.

Not so Spatial Audio. Sounds that emanate from the rear, left or right are all properly aligned for placement, volume and EQ. Explosions fill the spectrum, but don't sound like a mishmash of loud sounds. It has presence and atmosphere. Dialogue has realistic sounding echo, a spatial feeling. The ".1" in Dolby 5.1 has a visceral feeling, odd because there are no sound waves impacting the viscera. IOW, it sounds like a theater.

If anyone wants to try listening to the soundtrack alone, be sure swap between Spatial Audio on/off. Listening to something like the new Justice league or Godzilla, the difference is quite profound.

I do not. I really don't care for cinema all that much, other than some oldies recommended to me by a few whom I trust. I also don't have a home theater system of any sort, and maintain a 1080P TV after near a decade, haha.

That said, sometime in the not-too-distant future (<2 years) I plan to modestly upgrade & grab a soundbar (lol); maybe I'll get back to you for hardware and setup recommendations.

 

[Cashmonee]

I suspect many who watch video in their home don't care nearly as much about audio as they do when listening to music. I've been in homes where the owner would have some high priced Senns or Focals and watch video with the speakers built into their video display.

I'm curious - do you ever listen to a Dolby Atmos soundtrack critically, the way you might with music? By this I mean not watching the video, but listening closely and intently to only the soundtrack. I did that with Bose 700s with 3d audio (or whatever they call it) and it sounded exactly as it is: A stereo mix with an artificially enhanced sound stage.

Not so Spatial Audio. Sounds that emanate from the rear, left or right are all properly aligned for placement, volume and EQ. Explosions fill the spectrum, but don't sound like a mishmash of loud sounds. It has presence and atmosphere. Dialogue has realistic sounding echo, a spatial feeling. The ".1" in Dolby 5.1 has a visceral feeling, odd because there are no sound waves impacting the viscera. IOW, it sounds like a theater.

If anyone wants to try listening to the soundtrack alone, be sure swap between Spatial Audio on/off. Listening to something like the new Justice league or Godzilla, the difference is quite profound.

No, you don't listen critically to video soundtracks the way you do music. Sound in movies and TV is more about building the total experience. I have a decent 5.1 at home and I can tell you, while Spatial Audio is neat, it does not come close to replacing even a basic 5.1. For example, in Godzilla vs Kong, while the surround effects are good, the audio is downright muddy. They are trying to recreate the bass produced by a big subwoofer and the result is bass that still does not resonate but muddies the voices and other sound effects. Foot steps weigh 1000lbs.

The other issue with Spatial Audio is that it is intended for small screens. The main purpose is to keep the audio "coming from the screen". So if you turn your head, the audio doesn't turn with it. My understanding is that because of this, Apple has no intention of bringing Spatial Audio to Apple TV.

Having said all of that, if you are watching a movie on an iPad or iPhone, Spatial Audio is a nice treat. It is good enough for what it does and will no doubt get better. So for someone that does that often, it is definitely a feature of AirPods that they would appreciate. I just think we need to add "for what it is" to the descriptor. It is good a movie surround audio for what it is. It will not be causing people to rip out their 5.1 systems (or even decent soundbar that throws sound well) or eschewing their big screen TV to watch on an iPad instead because the audio is so much better.

 

[TomOSeven]

Meh, I listened to a pair for a day and they don't sound any better than my 100 € Sennheiser HD 598, and those will last decades. I can't believe how many people buy those wireless earphones that will be electrical waste within three years time.

 

[Cashmonee]

Meh, I listened to a pair for a day and they don't sound any better than my 100 € Sennheiser HD 598, and those will last decades. I can't believe how many people buy those wireless earphones that will be electrical waste within three years time.

I have the HD598 SE! Great headphones! Also a bit of apples and oranges though. Wired, open back headphones that do not fold or collapse in any way whatsoever are not going to be the same as a wireless, closed back, ANC headphone. One is meant to simply give the best sound possible with no other considerations. Another is meant to allow you to take it places, cancel out noise around you, and keep noise from those around you. Many will say you want both. To compare the two as one or the other is a bit ridiculous.

 

[dandrewk]

No, you don't listen critically to video soundtracks the way you do music. Sound in movies and TV is more about building the total experience. I have a decent 5.1 at home and I can tell you, while Spatial Audio is neat, it does not come close to replacing even a basic 5.1. For example, in Godzilla vs Kong, while the surround effects are good, the audio is downright muddy. They are trying to recreate the bass produced by a big subwoofer and the result is bass that still does not resonate but muddies the voices and other sound effects. Foot steps weigh 1000lbs.

The other issue with Spatial Audio is that it is intended for small screens. The main purpose is to keep the audio "coming from the screen". So if you turn your head, the audio doesn't turn with it. My understanding is that because of this, Apple has no intention of bringing Spatial Audio to Apple TV.

Having said all of that, if you are watching a movie on an iPad or iPhone, Spatial Audio is a nice treat. It is good enough for what it does and will no doubt get better. So for someone that does that often, it is definitely a feature of AirPods that they would appreciate. I just think we need to add "for what it is" to the descriptor. It is good a movie surround audio for what it is. It will not be causing people to rip out their 5.1 systems (or even decent soundbar that throws sound well) or eschewing their big screen TV to watch on an iPad instead because the audio is so much better.

I never meant to suggest that APMs duplicate the experience in a THX certified Dolby Atmos theater. Nor will it duplicate a home theater setup that cost several thousand dollars. But I bet if you compare a $550 "home theater in a box" deals with APMs, the headphones would win.

The main point is APMs duplicate the Dolby encoded soundtrack with as much audio quality as the headphones can produce. Sounds that arise from the side or rear are heard as the filmmaker intended them to be heard. Ambient sounds have appropriate volume levels. A purely bass thump is felt instead of heard. Etc.

Herein lies a shortcoming of the APMs. If you feel the bass muddles the soundtrack, you have no way of adjusting that via EQ settings. This will vary, to a wide degree, depending on the source material. GvK does have tons a bass and will overpower the soundtrack, as the filmmakers didn't mix their tracks with headphones in mind. Other soundtracks are much better. It would great if one day we get an alternate soundtrack that is EQ'd for headphones.

Previously, I would only use headphones watching video when I had to, and I have Focals with Dragonfly Cobalt DAC. It's just hard to listen soundtracks in stereo when you are used to 5.1. With APMs, it's an acceptable alternative (but NOT an improvement) to my home setup.