And yet you replied to me. Mac Pro isn't going to compete with any Macs anyway because of its price.
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MP 7,1 For those complaining about the Mac Pro 7,1 price/performance....
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And yet you replied to me. Mac Pro isn't going to compete with any Macs anyway because of its price.
The Radeon VII is also an MI50 based GPU which was available retail for about $500-600 US. Retail. For the cost you quote for Radeon instinct cards (which are not the same product at all) - you could fit out a machine with Nvidia Volta cards (or newer Titans) which are much faster.
The intel processors being used could be replaced with much cheaper (and faster in the vast majority of workloads) threadrippers for much less.
I think you need to take a look at what hardware actually costs and what alternatives there are that perform as well or better.
Apple is making sub-optimal hardware choices due to exclusivity agreements and milking their customers for all they're worth.
But hey, the case is shiny.
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Yeah, because we know what hardware costs, and refuse to pay the Apple tax on these machines.
I'll pay fair price for hardware. Hence i have plenty of Apple products. The Mac Pro isn't one of them.
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I seriously gave the iMac Pro a consideration and checked out all the refurbs as well. What put me off was being stuck with the hardware that I buy now (similar to my iMac i9). The RAM can be upgraded but with a lot of pain. In a years time the 28 core would be around $1000-1500. The GPU can by upgraded down the line if I need that. For 3.5k more I got the 12core-96gb-1TB-Radeon Vega II. I also do a lot of video work in 4K and this certainly helps. Plus the iMacs are limited in port availability and expansion capabilities. I need more than 4 TB3 ports. How do I get access to them on an iMac. There aren't any TB3 to TB3 multiplier docks.
I have 3 TB3 drives and an Adobe RGB monitor connected to my iMac. I cannot connect any other drives when needed. That sucks.
I am in no way a Mac fanboy. In fact, I regularly game on custom made PC and love what Windows can do. What it cannot do for me, is the editing process efficiently.
I even considered an AMD TR3 system (those are compelling indeed), but I simply gave up on Windows due to color management as I said before.
And what makes someone a High end photographer? Isn't 300 shoots a year enough to justify this? We processed 125,000 RAW files and 40TB of 4K video in 2019.
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If you use 10 bit Adobe RGB monitors (which is a must for us) the OS itself (explorer) does not support 10-bit color. Only Adobe apps do. When we render final images, none of the built in or 3rd party image viewers support color management. Adobe bridge supports it but its a pain to use and show images to clients.
Even Aurora HDR does not support 10 bit color and the colors were weird. On the same system with a sRGB monitor it worked fine. I had to take a refund. It was a pain to keep discovering this and trouble shooting apps to make them work.
Try opening a final image folder in Windows on a 10bit monitor and look at the horror on the faces of your clients. The images look like someone splashed blood on the faces. lol
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Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the issue but I do not consider Windows Explorer to be any form of imaging application. It's more of a system management tool and therefore I am not understanding why anyone would use it for imaging.
I totally get that. Where it matters is that file browsing/selecting/filtering images they all show up in horrible colors. Its too jarring to see your work in weird colors all the time. Mac OS Finder is color managed that’s why we never have any issues. Images show up how they were meant to be.
a simple google search will reveal thousands of threads on this issue and the only fix is using weird/old/open source-unstable software to browse files
Nvidia did enable true 10but color on the drivers recently, but windows updates simply ignore this. I simply cannot understand why.
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and Trust me. The AMD 3970x is too compelling to pass. I had a hard time choosing the MP over it. But at the end my work is too important to mess with it right now.
If you are Mac user, then you have no choice but the problem is there are better alternatives like Ryzen 9. Spending $6000 just for the basic version is already too expensive for photographers. 16 cores require an additional $2000. Ryzen 9 3900X is faster than 16 cores that Mac Pro has.
From the PC perspective, there are better options. $6000 with 8 cores is simply overpriced and server parts aren't necessary for photo uses. Ryzen 9 or even Threadripper would be a better option. Since you want better color management, a Hackintosh can be an option and it's not that hard.
From a Mac perspective, there isn't any choice but still expensive. This is because there isn't any mid-range modular desktop that people requested for a long time. Mac Pro is the only proper desktop that Apple has. iMac and iMac Pro don't even have a proper cooling system which is a joke. If you ever built a desktop, you know what I'm saying.
www.pugetsystems.com
More cores doesnt mean better. Lightroom is still not that great in terms of optimization.
There ARE reasons to complain such as lack of mid-range modular Mac, price, and more. This is why I have to disagree. Not all photographers wish to buy Mac Pro because of those reasons.
From a Mac perspective, there isn't any choice but still expensive. This is because there isn't any mid-range modular desktop that people requested for a long time. Mac Pro is the only proper desktop that Apple has. iMac and iMac Pro don't even have a proper cooling system which is a joke. If you ever built a desktop, you know what I'm saying.
Lightroom Classic CPU Roundup: AMD Ryzen 3rd Gen, AMD Threadripper 2, Intel 9th Gen, Intel X-series
Lightroom Classic has changed dramatically over the last few years, with improved multithreading support and the recent addition of GPU acceleration. But exactly how much of a difference is there between the latest processors from both Intel and AMD? Does the higher core count on the new Ryzen...
www.pugetsystems.com
There ARE reasons to complain such as lack of mid-range modular Mac, price, and more. This is why I have to disagree. Not all photographers wish to buy Mac Pro because of those reasons.
It’s totally unclear to me why people are comparing a complete system with power supply and cooling (Mac Pro) to a chip (“Ryzan” chip or “Threadripper”). They’re not comparable.
Show me a comparable design that enables good sustained performance and then maybe it makes sense to compare.
Show me a comparable design that enables good sustained performance and then maybe it makes sense to compare.
I believe the 7,1 only has 4 TB3 ports as well, and 2 USB Type A ports. The iMac Pro has 4 of each, plus an SD card slot. The only advantage the 7,1 has over the iMac Pro as far as ports are concerned is that you can save a TB3 port when connecting to an external monitor by connecting to the outputs on the GPU.
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Simple. You can build a computer which is better and cheaper than Mac Pro 2019. You are underestimating the major PC market. $6000 for 8 cores is a joke and I highly doubt that you need Xeon and ECC parts for photography uses.
Challenge Accepted....
ProMagix™ HD360A Epyc Workstation: http://velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=327
ProMagix™ HD150 Epyc Workstation: http://velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=337
ProMagix™ HD80 Threadripper Workstation: https://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=326
I didn't bother with the Ryzen 3950X.
As someone who does amateur photography I work within photographic specific applications and only use Explorer to manage files. Perhaps it's because I don't work professionally in this area as to why I am not seeing the need for 10-bit color while browsing files. Surely 8-bit color would be sufficient when managing files.
You mentioned there are thousands of threads on this issue, could I ask you to reference one you think offers a good explanation regarding this? I'd like to learn more about it and something which you feel explains it would be helpful for me to understand the specific issue you're referring to.
I have not heard of any throttling issues with the iMac Pro and the throttling issues that affected the early 27" 5K iMacs appears to have been addressed around the 2017 model. While Apple has done some things to limit the full potential of the processors in the current iMacs it hasn't significantly affected their performance.
There are other reasons one may wish to avoid an iMac / iMac Pro but throttling issues should no longer be one of them.
you dont need Xeon for photography, videography or music production.
Sure thing. Here is one
Why do my colours look so different in Windows Photo Viewer?: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review
Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.
www.dpreview.com
This has tons of image viewer suggestions. But all of them are just bad apps.
And if you work in HDR
HDR color problems in Windows 10
I've been reporting this to MS on the feedback hub for 2 years now. For a long time, enabling HDR in Windows 10 (currently on 1809) destroys all color rendering. SDR: HDR: I've heard excuses about gamma and blah, about how it's perception... well, what I perceive is hot pink garbage that...
8-bit is fine for managing files. But I cannot simply keep changing the monitor profile for just managing files. A workflow by nature has to be smooth and without unwanted interferences.
The problem actually stems from Microsoft not giving enough weight to this issue. Its a simple fix. But they seemed to have ignored it all along.
Don't get me wrong. I love Windows, in fact use it for gaming a lot. It just didn't fit my flow. I know the Mac Pro is expensive and I probably don't need Xeon/ECC. But something that is known to JUST work is a better bet than experimenting at this stage. Plus our video production is FCPX based. So that is another thing that sticks us to the Mac. We are trying out Davinci mainly for its color correction capabilities, but then again it should play well with our 10 bit monitors. Time and testing will tell.
Thank you very much for these references. I'll definitely give them a look.you dont need Xeon for photography, videography or music production.
Sure thing. Here is one
Why do my colours look so different in Windows Photo Viewer?: Retouching Forum: Digital Photography Review
Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.
This has tons of image viewer suggestions. But all of them are just bad apps.
And if you work in HDR
HDR color problems in Windows 10
I've been reporting this to MS on the feedback hub for 2 years now. For a long time, enabling HDR in Windows 10 (currently on 1809) destroys all color rendering. SDR: HDR: I've heard excuses about gamma and blah, about how it's perception... well, what I perceive is hot pink garbage that...hardforum.com
8-bit is fine for managing files. But I cannot simply keep changing the monitor profile for just managing files. A workflow by nature has to be smooth and without unwanted interferences.
The problem actually stems from Microsoft not giving enough weight to this issue. Its a simple fix. But they seemed to have ignored it all along.
Don't get me wrong. I love Windows, in fact use it for gaming a lot. It just didn't fit my flow. I know the Mac Pro is expensive and I probably don't need Xeon/ECC. But something that is known to JUST work is a better bet than experimenting at this stage. Plus our video production is FCPX based. So that is another thing that sticks us to the Mac. We are trying out Davinci mainly for its color correction capabilities, but then again it should play well with our 10 bit monitors. Time and testing will tell.
Wow, what a sterile debate.
If you do not believe it represents good value for you or your organization, don't buy it. Simple.
For those who would love to see a more consumer/hobbyist friendly version, don't hold your breath - Apple does not care.
If you do not believe it represents good value for you or your organization, don't buy it. Simple.
For those who would love to see a more consumer/hobbyist friendly version, don't hold your breath - Apple does not care.
Some buyers choose Macs over PCs to avoid Windows. I am one of them. I'm also someone who needs to make a profit, so the choice of a "decent" 7,1 build @ $12K vs a $6K PC with roughly similar raw performance is essentially tossing $6K of net. WTF?
1) I use Windows at work and the double edged sword of updating is frustrating
2) I typically work in close proximity to my computer - often near set on a cart - so loud fans are non grata.
3) TB3 I/O is useful and well supported
1) I use Windows at work and the double edged sword of updating is frustrating
2) I typically work in close proximity to my computer - often near set on a cart - so loud fans are non grata.
3) TB3 I/O is useful and well supported
That's because they limited the CPU performance. You have no idea how poor they are compared to PC with those CPU.
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Except for video and music. There are a lot of huge projects require a powerful computer like Mac Pro in a huge scale such as cinema.
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On what do you base that claim? A cursory look at GB5 shows iMacs with the i9-9900 in the same range as non-Macs.
That's a blanket statement without much merit. A pro photographer that is running a successful business (not a hobbyist that calls themselves a pro, but someone who makes their *living* do it) won't blink at $6000--they are buying lenses and cameras that cost thousands of dollars, and don't use any of them any more than a computer that they also need to process and prepare all of their photos for distribution. It's just a cost of doing business, and if you know how to run a business, passing on that cost is minor, just like you have to pass on all of your costs. Spread across all of the jobs over the lifetime of the machine, the costs are pretty tiny.
Geekbench does not represent the real-world performance. Do you really expect iMac with i9-9900K perform similar to a PC with i9-9900K and a bigger cooler? Wow... You better check the size of iMac's cooler.
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That doesn't justify that photographers need to spend much more on Mac instead of PC.