Free the iPhone!

[MacVault]

the future...

The future would be: no more "cell" anything! We'll move to WiMAX & VOIP and/or global satellite service for everyone! Apple SHOULD have brought us the iPhone NOT SHACKLED to a service provider!!! Now that would have been revolutionary!

However the future goes.. I SAY DOWN WITH SERVICE CONTRACTS! And while I'm at it... DOWN WITH DRM!

 

[Georgie]

Sent this to Apple, and Cingular, earlier today. Curious what will be their response.

I want to express my disappointment that the iPhone is tied to Cingular service. I was wowed by Mr. Jobs demonstration of the phone. It really is revolutionary in the market. It's fantastic. I want one. I would break my Verizon contract tomorrow and pay the $200 fine on top of the cost of the iPhone, knowing that it's a GSM-only device. I would buy one immediately but for one thing. It's tied to Cingular. I will not switch to Cingular, locked into an expensive two year plan. Especially given that I would be purchasing the iPhone at practically full price, without any discount from Cingular, I will not agree to a two-year contract with unknown data rates on top of that. I understand the desire to sell the iPhone unsubsidized, but there must be some advantage to that for the consumer as well. Premium costs should purchase premium quality (it appears to with the iPhone) and premium service (it does not with Cingular) With any other phone and any other company, anywhere else in the world, purchasing a phone full price gives the purchaser freedom to enter into non-binding contracts with cellular service providers. Unfortunately Apple's tie-in with Cingular is just the worst of both worlds, full price hardware, locked to Cingular's network, and a long-term contract.

I'm curious about the phone being locked to Cingular's service and what that means for international travel. Does this mean that when I travel overseas I can not use use a foreign sim card for lower local rates? Instead I'll be forced to pay Cingular's egregiously high overseas roaming rates. I hope this isn't the case; it's not acceptable.

The iPhone hardware is awe inspiring. Unfortunately the contractual obligations are a deal breaker. I hope Apple takes these sentiments into consideration as they consider future contracts. I do understand that certain features of the phone, like the visual voicemail, probably require some consolation from the service provider. Maybe the simple conference calling feature as well. But the consumer deserves some freedom, and those features aren't worth giving up freedom of choice. I want to think different, be free; instead by purchasing an iPhone I'll be tied to Cingular's onerous demands. They are consistently ranked the worst cellular provider in the United States by independent organizations like JD Power (Cingular's own unreleased "studies" aside). I might consider switching to Cingular, but I won't be told that I must pay full price for device and contract, sign a two year contract, and agree to as-yet-unknown billing structure (currently their data rates are expensive relative to their competitors).

I am wowed by the iPhone. I desparately want one. I've been waiting a long time for a beautiful device that syncs well with my MBP. I thought the iPhone was it, but apparently it is not. Not with such stipulations.

 

[MacVault]

I want to express my disappointment that the iPhone is tied to Cingular service. I was wowed by Mr. Jobs demonstration of the phone. It really is revolutionary in the market. It's fantastic. I want one. I would break my Verizon contract tomorrow and pay the $200 fine on top of the cost of the iPhone, knowing that it's a GSM-only device. I would buy one immediately but for one thing. It's tied to Cingular. I will not switch to Cingular, locked into an expensive two year plan. Especially given that I would be purchasing the iPhone at practically full price, without any discount from Cingular, I will not agree to a two-year contract with unknown data rates on top of that. I understand the desire to sell the iPhone unsubsidized, but there must be some advantage to that for the consumer as well. Premium costs should purchase premium quality (it appears to with the iPhone) and premium service (it does not with Cingular) With any other phone and any other company, anywhere else in the world, purchasing a phone full price gives the purchaser freedom to enter into non-binding contracts with cellular service providers. Unfortunately Apple's tie-in with Cingular is just the worst of both worlds, full price hardware, locked to Cingular's network, and a long-term contract.

I'm curious about the phone being locked to Cingular's service and what that means for international travel. Does this mean that when I travel overseas I can not use use a foreign sim card for lower local rates? Instead I'll be forced to pay Cingular's egregiously high overseas roaming rates. I hope this isn't the case; it's not acceptable.

The iPhone hardware is awe inspiring. Unfortunately the contractual obligations are a deal breaker. I hope Apple takes these sentiments into consideration as they consider future contracts. I do understand that certain features of the phone, like the visual voicemail, probably require some consolation from the service provider. Maybe the simple conference calling feature as well. But the consumer deserves some freedom, and those features aren't worth giving up freedom of choice. I want to think different, be free; instead by purchasing an iPhone I'll be tied to Cingular's onerous demands. They are consistently ranked the worst cellular provider in the United States by independent organizations like JD Power (Cingular's own unreleased "studies" aside). I might consider switching to Cingular, but I won't be told that I must pay full price for device and contract, sign a two year contract, and agree to as-yet-unknown billing structure (currently their data rates are expensive relative to their competitors).

I am wowed by the iPhone. I desparately want one. I've been waiting a long time for a beautiful device that syncs well with my MBP. I thought the iPhone was it, but apparently it is not. Not with such stipulations.

I AGREE COMPLETELY 100000%! Georgie, do you mind if I copy what you wrote and send it from myself?

 

[aristobrat]

.

There's a huge amount of unknowns that you seem to be disappointed about.

Nobody knows if you're required to have a 2-year contract or be able to pay more for the device and settle for a 1-year contract.

The price of the device will undoubtedly be much higher for existing Cingular customers who aren't eligible for an reduced-price upgrade (i.e. the upgraded in recently) but want the iPhone anyway, so I wouldn't say that the price you're paying for a 2-year contract is "full price" or that you wouldn't be receiving a discount. Others will pay a higher price than new Cingular customers.

Nobody knows if Cingular can SIM-unlock it so if can use other SIMS when traveling internationally.

Nobody knows if Cingular will create a special data plan for it. Verizon's PDA data plan costs 2x Cingular's.

 

[AHDuke99]

There's a huge amount of unknowns that you seem to be disappointed about.

Nobody knows if you're required to have a 2-year contract or be able to pay more for the device and settle for a 1-year contract.

The price of the device will undoubtedly be much higher for existing Cingular customers who aren't eligible for an reduced-price upgrade (i.e. the upgraded in recently) but want the iPhone anyway, so I wouldn't say that the price you're paying for a 2-year contract is "full price" or that you wouldn't be receiving a discount. Others will pay a higher price than new Cingular customers.

Nobody knows if Cingular can SIM-unlock it so if can use other SIMS when traveling internationally.

Nobody knows if Cingular will create a special data plan for it. Verizon's PDA data plan costs 2x Cingular's.

true. i also think many people are forgetting how un-user friendly verizon really is. all their phones are locked, yes, but they also cripple most of the features on a phone. they dont have full bluetooth capabilities and most CDMA phones that are locked are much harder to hack/unlock than are GSM phones. So i would doubt verizon would tweak their network to satisfy apple. they would seem like they are above that.

Apple should have also said, "No, here's what WE want to do - NO CONTRACTS and NO EXCLUSIVITY! Why, you ask? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT OUR USERS WANT!" And Apple should have stuck to their guns on that just like they've done with the music labels with the download-to-own model! Apple should have told Cingular to TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT! Now Apple is being controlled by Cingular! WTF! WTF! WTF!

Oh, and the excuse to pay homage to Cingular in order to get Visual Voicemail to work, well, HA, what a #$^%&#% price to pay for ONE little feature! I would much rather have an iPhone NOT LOCKED DOWN to any one privider and no stinkin VISUAL VOICEMAIL. What a lame excuse for Apple to sell it's soul to the devil! AAAahhhhhhhhhh!

you sound like a foolish little apple fan boy. the music industry was hurting, sales were down, and the online store was a new idea. no one else had really done the idea before. apple got in early and dominated it. the RIAA wanted an alternative to p2p. apple had the negotiating advantage.

the phone market is competely from the online music business. its well established. no one is hurting for money, especially cingular, verizon, and tmobile. apple cant walk in to the market and demand cingular to do this and that or they simple would tell apple to have a nice day. the iphone is awesome and i hope to get one, but no one knows if the general public will get one for $599 or not. apple needed a carrier to promote it and display it in their stores. cingular stores are all over the place, while apple stores aren't. they made the right move by partnering with someone, and a GSM carrier was most likely who it was going to be. why are you surprised? apple wouldn't make a world phone and make it CDMA. You're crazy.

 

[MacVault]

true. i also think many people are forgetting how un-user friendly verizon really is. all their phones are locked, yes, but they also cripple most of the features on a phone. they dont have full bluetooth capabilities and most CDMA phones that are locked are much harder to hack/unlock than are GSM phones. So i would doubt verizon would tweak their network to satisfy apple. they would seem like they are above that.



you sound like a foolish little apple fan boy. the music industry was hurting, sales were down, and the online store was a new idea. no one else had really done the idea before. apple got in early and dominated it. the RIAA wanted an alternative to p2p. apple had the negotiating advantage.

the phone market is competely from the online music business. its well established. no one is hurting for money, especially cingular, verizon, and tmobile. apple cant walk in to the market and demand cingular to do this and that or they simple would tell apple to have a nice day. the iphone is awesome and i hope to get one, but no one knows if the general public will get one for $599 or not. apple needed a carrier to promote it and display it in their stores. cingular stores are all over the place, while apple stores aren't. they made the right move by partnering with someone, and a GSM carrier was most likely who it was going to be. why are you surprised? apple wouldn't make a world phone and make it CDMA. You're crazy.

Oh, ok, for some reason after reading your post I just want all the cellphone service contracts I can find. Yum, Yum! My pen is hot and ready to sign on the line! NOT. No carrier is every going to get me to sign another two year contract! NEVER! Been there, done that! No way, Jose. I don't care how cool the iPhone is. Period!

 

[Llywelyn]

Sigh

* They needed the provider to make changes to their network.
* They wanted GSM so that it could work outside of the US.

In the US market, that leaves T-Mobile and Cingular. T-Mobile has 27.5 million customers in the US, Cingular has 59.8 million (that's more than 25% of the US). T-Mobile also borrows Cingular's networks for much of its roaming. Okay, so for a US start to the project, you'd go with Cingular. Makes sense so far.

Now, Apple was not in a position to dictate terms here. Cry all you want, but they were asking a cell phone provider to take a big risk. In exchange for that risk, that cell phone provider would want, naturally, certain protections on their market for a few years (two years? I haven't gotten a firm answer on this). This money is all upfront capital to them, which has a higher value than money that will be coming later (see Net Present Value), so naturally they want to manage their own risk.

Early editions of these gadgets tend to be built using more expensive components, and this sucker has been in development for years now, so the combined cost to Apple to build the device and the R&D that went into it, along with the cost of getting it approved and the cost of marketing it is going to be very high. They will want to be making this money back, so they have to charge a low enough price that it will sell, plus whatever they have to pay Cingular (if anything), and a high enough price to recoup in a reasonable amount of time (otherwise it is not a marketable product given their costs). They will want to reduce this price as much as possible. Enter the Cingular deal--Cingular can reduce the price at least part of the way by providing a guarantee of certain longer term ROI for Cingular.

Assuming that it is marketable, then, this deal--and it being with Cingular for the first iteration--makes perfect sense.

Look for a T-mobile release, at a much reduced price, in 2-3 years.

Oh, for the record, I am a satisfied T-Mobile customer, not locked into a contract. However, both the price point on the iPhone and the tie-in with Cingular are dealbreakers for me, though it wouldn't take much of a drop in the price if it were tied to T-Mobile instead ($100 or so for the 4 GB version) before I would seriously consider it. That said, I think Apple is on to something here, and if this is a marketable product at all at this price point I think it will sell very, very well.

 

[Georgie]

There's a huge amount of unknowns that you seem to be disappointed about.

Nobody knows if you're required to have a 2-year contract or be able to pay more for the device and settle for a 1-year contract.

The price of the device will undoubtedly be much higher for existing Cingular customers who aren't eligible for an reduced-price upgrade (i.e. the upgraded in recently) but want the iPhone anyway, so I wouldn't say that the price you're paying for a 2-year contract is "full price" or that you wouldn't be receiving a discount. Others will pay a higher price than new Cingular customers.

Nobody knows if Cingular can SIM-unlock it so if can use other SIMS when traveling internationally.

Nobody knows if Cingular will create a special data plan for it. Verizon's PDA data plan costs 2x Cingular's.

None of those are unknowns, if you've done your reading. Cingular has stated that they will require new two year contracts, no exceptions. They will require data plans too, though the price remains unspecified. New customers and existing customers will all pay the same amount, no advantages either way. Apple has stated that they forbade Cingular from subsidizing the cost of the phone, so all customers are paying full price. There will be no other customers besides Cingular customers because the phone will be locked to Cingular's service (hackers may get around this, especially once the phone is released in Europe, but it will be difficult). And finally, given Cingular's strict tie-ins I expect they'll refuse to unlock it to use overseas sim cards, hence my expressed regrets.

 

[Georgie]

* They needed the provider to make changes to their network.
* They wanted GSM so that it could work outside of the US.

In the US market, that leaves T-Mobile and Cingular. T-Mobile has 27.5 million customers in the US, Cingular has 59.8 million (that's more than 25% of the US). T-Mobile also borrows Cingular's networks for much of its roaming. Okay, so for a US start to the project, you'd go with Cingular. Makes sense so far.

You're right, that leaves T-mobile. JD Power, the largest independent organization to poll mobile-service customer satisfaction, ranks T-mobile and Verizon the best in all metrics. They have the best service, best service, and best support in the industry. That's all relative (people love to hate their service providers), it's relative to Cingular and AT&T, consistently ranked the worst of the mobile providers in the US.

I want choice.

As to your other arguments, I generally disagree, but as neither of us know **** about the industry, I doubt we'll ever come to a consensus. I'll just say that I don't think an Apple iPhone is a risk for any cell company.

 

[Hls811]

I want to express my disappointment that the iPhone is tied to Cingular service.....

I think the same sort of letter can be written to any carrier. What if I have Cingular and want an LG Chocolate, or LG enV? I can't - its tied to Verizon.
I have Verizon and would love a Blackberry Pearl.. can't have it.

What if I was travelling overseas with a Verizon phone - can I add a sim card to ge a cheaper rate? No - actually, (without renting a world phone from Verizon) - I can't use my phone at all overseas.

Apple made a decision to work with a single carrier on the phone, and the carrier put thier efforts into it, they should be entitled to exclusivity with it.

I can't speak about Cingulars service - I don't have them myself - I have Verizon - but the people I do know with them have been satisfied with the reception they get. i've been in places with a co-worker with Cingular where i get reception and he doesn't, and vice versa.

Again, I have Verizon, if I want an iPhone, I switch to Cingular, simple as that. If I don't want to switch to Cingular, I don't get an iPhone.

 

[Cybergypsy]

I think the same sort of letter can be written to any carrier. What if I have Cingular and want an LG Chocolate, or LG enV? I can't - its tied to Verizon.
I have Verizon and would love a Blackberry Pearl.. can't have it.

What if I was travelling overseas with a Verizon phone - can I add a sim card to ge a cheaper rate? No - actually, (without renting a world phone from Verizon) - I can't use my phone at all overseas.

Apple made a decision to work with a single carrier on the phone, and the carrier put thier efforts into it, they should be entitled to exclusivity with it.

I can't speak about Cingulars service - I don't have them myself - I have Verizon - but the people I do know with them have been satisfied with the reception they get. i've been in places with a co-worker with Cingular where i get reception and he doesn't, and vice versa.

Again, I have Verizon, if I want an iPhone, I switch to Cingular, simple as that. If I don't want to switch to Cingular, I don't get an iPhone.

LOL...

 

[whooleytoo]

Apple made a decision to work with a single carrier on the phone, and the carrier put thier efforts into it, they should be entitled to exclusivity with it.

Which does raise an interesting point, is the reason for the 2 year contract:

- Cingular are subsidizing the price of the phone to the consumer, hence they need to tie in the customer to make their money.

or

- Since Cingular had to make changes to the network for the iPhone, Apple couldn't offer it for other networks without these changes (and Cingular probably demanded exclusivity for the first 2 years anyway).

Hopefully, it's the latter. If it's the former, it means there's little scope for the price of the device to fall much in the near future.

 

[Llywelyn]

Which does raise an interesting point, is the reason for the 2 year contract:

- Cingular are subsidizing the price of the phone to the consumer, hence they need to tie in the customer to make their money.

or

- Since Cingular had to make changes to the network for the iPhone, Apple couldn't offer it for other networks without these changes (and Cingular probably demanded exclusivity for the first 2 years anyway).

Hopefully, it's the latter. If it's the former, it means there's little scope for the price of the device to fall much in the near future.

If a previous post on this topic is correct, and Apple forbade Cingular from subsidizing the price of the phone, then it would be the latter, which would be a very Good Thing(tm).

 

[sexyos]

New Models

I watched the keynote and thought it was great. I don't need all those features though.
I would like to see an Iphone with the Ipod and and phone features only like the new SMS chat, voicemail , Ical, mail,and adress book intergration and syncing ability.
I personally don't want mobile internet,google maps and the rest.

Apple has done great with there iphone, but maybe a cheper cut down version is what the majority of people would actually use.

And 1 more thing. GPS in a different model would also appeal.

I Hope Apple does release new models, but i doubt i will ever see one, Because I don't think there has been a release date set for Australia (Oceania). We are lucky to even have a itunes store. I doubt we will ever see movie downloads on it.

 

[Fahd]

In all seriousness how long do you think it will take for someone to figure out how to hack and unlock the iphone?

 

[quigleybc]

Really,

I think RAZRs have ben free from the start here.

I think they're giving razr's away in happy meals now....

 

[benoistmace]

Pétition signup

There is a only petition you can sign up at http://www.freetheiphone.com/
Depending on support, these guys intend to publish an add in cuppertico courrier or something like this to persuade Apple to change this.
Let's try, we never know !

Rgds
Ben

 

[iW00t]

The future would be: no more "cell" anything! We'll move to WiMAX & VOIP and/or global satellite service for everyone! Apple SHOULD have brought us the iPhone NOT SHACKLED to a service provider!!! Now that would have been revolutionary!

However the future goes.. I SAY DOWN WITH SERVICE CONTRACTS! And while I'm at it... DOWN WITH DRM!

Listen to the man!

Big Corporations trying to make a buck, wow that is such a heinous crime!

Down with Capitalism! Communism rocks the big one!1111ONE!ELEVEN

 

[clevin]

maybe start a petition, but don't ask too much for a vaporware for now.

 

[yg17]

* They needed the provider to make changes to their network.
* They wanted GSM so that it could work outside of the US.

In the US market, that leaves T-Mobile and Cingular. T-Mobile has 27.5 million customers in the US, Cingular has 59.8 million (that's more than 25% of the US). T-Mobile also borrows Cingular's networks for much of its roaming. Okay, so for a US start to the project, you'd go with Cingular. Makes sense so far.

But with Cingular, you might as well use 2 tin cans and a string for voice, a note attached to a carrier pigeon for SMS, and the data network would be you shouting "zero! zero! one! one! one! one! zero! one! zero! zero! zero! one! one" into your tin can. What good is a phone like the iPhone when the network it's on sucks? And don't say it's just me...Out of everyone I know who's stuck with Cingular, I know of only one who doesn't actually have any complaints. Read the JD Power reports, Cingular is towards the bottom.

Apple's mistake isn't the cellular technology they used, the fact the phone is locked or the 5 year exclusive contract. Their mistake was choosing the provider that is consistently towards the bottom of any of the surveys out there.

 

[iphone7685]

Well one of the main reasons Apple chose Cingular is they have a GSM network, which is used worldwide. Apple wanted to make a products that they could release everywhere without making different versions of the phone.

If they chose Verizon, or Sprint they could only distribute in the US because they use CDMA and PCS networks.

T-Mobile doesn't have the customer base Apple wants.

hi!!!!
i just want to know that if you buy the iphone in america on the 29 th of june and it was unlocked and brought to the uk would it work straight away.or do you need a old sim card .plzzzzzzzzzz tell me i am confused

 

[Eric1285]

Here's why I think the iPhone is tied to Cingular:

Apple knew they needed one of the big networks to back their phone and provide full support. They know they needed to sign some sort of deal that would guarantee that everything was done the Apple way. At the same time, Apple realized that there was money to be made in making the iPhone available exclusively to one carrier. So, as part of the deal, Apple had to ensure that whichever carrier they selected would get exclusive access to the iPhone (and in return the carrier would bend its rules so that the iPhone would be given the support customary to Apple products) hence, locking it in to just one provider.

 

[Trent0341]

hi!!!!
i just want to know that if you buy the iphone in america on the 29 th of june and it was unlocked and brought to the uk would it work straight away.or do you need a old sim card .plzzzzzzzzzz tell me i am confused

Nice thread necromancy