Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards

[bllx]

Well those 111 pages took me all of Christmas to get through. Very informative though, thanks to all contributors.

I am about to take the plunge on an Nvidia card for my 2010 single CPU Mac Pro 5,1 with ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB (just upgraded CPU from 2.8 quad to 3.33 hex). Probably the last major upgrade on this trusty old machine I've owned from new.
I'm hoping someone can confirm some of my assumptions before I buy it (I've decided GTX970 probably best VFM card, with suitably low power needs).

I don't want to go down the flashed EFI route being in the UK...shipping, taxes etc., I'm planning on getting an EVGA SC or SSC GTX 970; SC requires 2x6 pin PCI power, SSC needs 1x6 pin + 1 x 8 pin.
Seeing as I won't get boot screen with the Nvidia, I'm planning on keeping the original ATI 5770 installed, probably in PCI slot 2, with the Nvidia in slot 1.

Question 1: Given the relatively low power requirements of GTX 970 cards, and the Mac Pro having 2x6 pin PCI power outlets, will I be ok with using a PCI power cable splitter to split one of the outlets to the ATI card (which only needs one) and to one of the Nvidia power inputs; whilst using the other Mac 6 pin power out to the remaining Nvidia power input (possibly converting it to 8 pin if I get the SSC card)?
I would like to avoid the need for an extra PSU, and all hard drive bays are full.

Question 2: With GTX 970 in slot 1 and ATI 5770 in slot 2, would the following work:
I have only 1 monitor. I would like to plug, say the mini display port output from the 5770 into the Display Port input of my monitor; and plug the DVI output of the GTX 970 into the DVI input of the same monitor. I could then select either DP or DVI source from my monitor's hardware controls to determine which card's output is displayed, allowing me to see boot screen when necessary.

Question 3:
I do most of my gaming from a Windows 7 installation on its own internal HD in the cMP.
Would the above setup with 2 video cards (ATI and Nvidia) play nice in Windows? ie not crash or whatever. I'm hoping because the cards are from different manufacturers there would be less risk of driver conflicts unlike say a GT120 and a GTX 970 might have.

Many thanks to anyone who may have the time to look at these questions.

 

[StuAff]

In the same position (funnily enough, also on a 3.33 hex with HD 5770). From what I've read, 970+5770 should be doable, provided you have the free slots to accommodate two double-height cards. I don't as I have an SSD PCIe card (and kneecapping the SSD doesn't appeal) and a USB 3.0 card (ditto with my primary backup). I've therefore just got a 2600XT off eBay (£14 shipped...!) to sort out the boot screen problem. If it doesn't work under Windows 10 I'll roll the Boot Camp install back to 8.1.
This will help...
http://www.i0sen.ch/2015/11/10/how-to-install-a-gtx-titan-black-and-ati-radeon-5870-in-one-mac-pro/

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

Last week a posted some disappointing results from the GTX 980 in my MacPro 6c 3,33 Ghz. I contacted EVGA and sent them positive and negative benchmarks and they replied friendly:
“Dear MHF
I would like to thank you for your feedback about your EVGA GTX 980 graphics card. Since the current 900 series is not supported for Mac systems, there will be some things that may not function properly. Should you or any potential EVGA customer ever have any questions or concerns with any EVGA product, then I would encourage you to contact our 24 hour Presales Support team by phone 1.888.881.3842 and pressing option 3 or by email so that we can further assist you."
It's a fact that the card is PCI 3.0 and the MacPro is only PCI 2.0 so that is a bottleneck.
In a modern PC Heaven gets 100 fps while the card in my Mac Pro only reaches 68 fps.
It's a pity that the card underperforms in several tests with CPU-limited apps vs the good old Radeon 5870, but in CUDA and most 3d applications it's a winner. However it could be a lot better if the nVidia drivers would be really optimized for MacOSX.

 

[bllx]

Thanks for reply; yes I'd seen that video.
In it, his 5870 uses 228W TDP and he uses SATA power to supplement; my 5770 uses 108W TDP- perhaps I wouldn't need to supplement the power supply scheme I outline in Qu1 above?

Can anyone comment on my power question 1 above?

My only other PCI card is a small USB 3 one, which I hope should be able to fit along with the 2 full size vid cards.
Good idea with the 2600XT...amazing price too, my quick eBay browse showed more like £50.
I take it the 2600XT needs no 6 pin PCI power?

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

I have a PowerMac 6c 2009. I have a Accelsior SSD-pci-e and a Caldigit esata USB 3.0 card installed with my Geforce 980 and two power cables. No problems. It works but the benchmark results are mixed. Your Geforce and Radeon use 1 power cable each. I think that shouldn't be the problem but I don't know how much space the 5770 and the 970 ask.

 

[h9826790]

I have a fast CPU, a 6 core 3,33 Ghz is nearly as fast as a 4 core 4 GHz. However, it seems that this card runs faster on a Hackintosh or a PC than on a Mac.
What I can't accept is that Novabench on a PC runs at 972 fps and that I only get 621 fps.

NO, The 3680 is NOT fast at all for this so call GPU benchmark (but CPU SINGLE core speed limiting). Cinebench is one of those software. Even though your CPU has 1000 cores, it won't beat an i3 with the new architecture but much less cores and lower speed in the GPU test

Do you know why those benchmark you choose are not popular? Because almost none of them is properly designed for testing modern GPU. If you want to use GFX Bench on screen test, you have to disable Beam-sync (V-sync), otherwise your 980 can easily hit the 60FPS limit (come form your monitor). Or you can simply use off screen test. In fact, when you see your 980 has the same score as the 5870, you should know that the test is limited by something else. There is no way these 2 card perform almost identical (and cap at 60FPS) in 100% utilisation.

If you want to test your GPU, go for Unigine Heaven, Unigine Valley, or even Furmark. And please come back to tell me if your 5870 can beat the 980. When you want to get a GPU benchmark, you need something that can stress your GPU to 100%, otherwise it's not testing anything.

Luxmark usually can accurately reflect the GPU's performance in OpenCL, not OpenGL, in this area, AMD card always stronger than Nvidia in OSX (that's why using the AMD card for something like FCPX is a better choice). However, you may have to try different version / different scene to pick a combination that's error free. It's not your card's problem, but Luxmark's problem (AMD card can hit the same problem).

I don't know why you get the 980. If for gaming, just go ahead and play your game. I am quite sure your 980 will do much better in most of the modern game than the 5870. Use it in your daily ops as the benchmark is always the best indication. If you only buy this card for running those "wrong" benchmark in OSX, then of course you will have this disappointed result.

 

[flehman]

GTX 980 crushes a 5870 and does it while drawing 30% less power. Yes, the nVidia web drivers can stand to be further optimized. Yes, frame rates on a Hackintosh or PC may be higher. Yes, there may be some tasks where the CPU throttles the GPU. Doesn't matter. There is always a bottleneck somewhere. If you keep the 5870 your GPU will be the bottleneck instead. Bottom line is that a GTX 980 will outperform a 5870 in 99.99% of any real-world exercises, even taking all those factors into account. You can keep your old 5870, or you can resolve not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good and enjoy what the 980 can give you.

 

[MacVidCards]

Cinebench is a joke. I get angry emails at least once a month when somepne gets a new GPU and compares scores.

It is worthless for anything but CPU testing.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

Here are some positive benchmark tests of the GTX 980 vs the Radeon:
@ Heaven 68 fps (vs 15 on the Radeon) preset extreme
@ Valley 59 fps (vs 30 on the Radeon) preset extreme
@ Luxmark 2,1 Sala 2760 (vs 763 on the Radeon)
@ Furmark 154 fps (vs 87 on the Radeon) 1024 x 640 windowed
@ Tessmark x64 276 fps (vs 17 on the Radeon) Fullscreen 1920 x 1200
@ Octane Bench score 97,8 (Radeon not supported)
@ Da Vinci Resolve Candle 1 NR node 22,5 (vs 2 on the Radeon)
@ L4D2 2560x1440 Best 180 (vs 80 on the Radeon)
@ Tomb Raider 2560x1440 High Preset 55 (vs 37 on the Radeon)
@ Diablo III 2560x1440 HQ 159 (vs 69 on the Radeon)
@ When I Run Heaven under Parallels in Extreme modus I get no blue pixels, but I get those with the Radeon
@ Xbench OpenGL Test 266.99 (vs 230.56 on the Radeon)

The GFX Bench Test Offscreen was also better for the Geforce, except for Driver Overhead 2.
(1.252e+05 means 125203 which is more than 47528)

Is Compubench also a bad test?
There the results between the cards are approx. equal.

 

[bzip]

Hi all

Wondering if I could get some help - I'm trying to get an EVGA 970 running on my Mac Pro 5,1. Am on 10.9.5.

I've got the right NVIDIA web driver in (334.01.03f05) and while using my old Radeon 5770 card have it selected in system preferences. If I swap it out for the 970 I'll get stuck in a boot loop with a blank screen. The card is connected properly and powered up (the fans are on).

Been trying to follow the guide on step 24 to do the manual turning off in terminal, which doesn't make any difference. The only thing I can think of is on that step it says:

'
Quote
sudo nvram boot-args="nv_disable=1"

Quote
sudo nvram boot-args="nvda_drv=1"

Obviously if you have other settings in your boot args string, you should add them at each step as well.'

^ I can't figure out if this is where I'm going wrong; I have a Windows bootcamp partition on another bay, do I need to do the nvram step again but for that boot also in order for it to work? What would that string I'd have to bash into terminal look like?

That's the only thing I can think of at this point that I'm not sure of, I might be missing something else though.

Any help would be wildly appreciate it as I just want to play some games and stop crying...

Hopefully yours

Ben

 

[flehman]

I believe the 970/980 require Yosemite.

 

[MacVidCards]

I believe the 970/980 require Yosemite.

Yep

 

[h9826790]

Here are some positive benchmark tests of the GTX 980 vs the Radeon:
@ Heaven 68 fps (vs 15 on the Radeon) preset extreme
@ Valley 59 fps (vs 30 on the Radeon) preset extreme
@ Luxmark 2,1 Sala 2760 (vs 763 on the Radeon)
@ Furmark 154 fps (vs 87 on the Radeon) 1024 x 640 windowed
@ Tessmark x64 276 fps (vs 17 on the Radeon) Fullscreen 1920 x 1200
@ Octane Bench score 97,8 (Radeon not supported)
@ Da Vinci Resolve Candle 1 NR node 22,5 (vs 2 on the Radeon)
@ L4D2 2560x1440 Best 180 (vs 80 on the Radeon)
@ Tomb Raider 2560x1440 High Preset 55 (vs 37 on the Radeon)
@ Diablo III 2560x1440 HQ 159 (vs 69 on the Radeon)
@ When I Run Heaven under Parallels in Extreme modus I get no blue pixels, but I get those with the Radeon
@ Xbench OpenGL Test 266.99 (vs 230.56 on the Radeon)

The GFX Bench Test Offscreen was also better for the Geforce, except for Driver Overhead 2.
(1.252e+05 means 125203 which is more than 47528)

Is Compubench also a bad test?
There the results between the cards are approx. equal.

If you run those test in parallel. You are testing "how the card perform in OSX via the parallel driver", not the actual card itself. The 5870 may not allocate enough VRAM for parallel to run Heaven, that's why you get glitches.

The driver of 5870 is much better optimised for OSX than 980's web driver. I am not surprised the driver overhead test shows that 5870('s driver) is better.

Compubench is testing the OpenCL ability, not OpenGL. And my understanding is that AMD card has advantage in this area in OSX. If you want something for OpenCL, 980 will be a relatively expensive choice and under perform.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

+1. Thanks for the useful info.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

Hi all

Wondering if I could get some help - I'm trying to get an EVGA 970 running on my Mac Pro 5,1. Am on 10.9.5.

I've got the right NVIDIA web driver in (334.01.03f05) and while using my old Radeon 5770 card have it selected in system preferences. If I swap it out for the 970 I'll get stuck in a boot loop with a blank screen. The card is connected properly and powered up (the fans are on).

Been trying to follow the guide on step 24 to do the manual turning off in terminal, which doesn't make any difference. The only thing I can think of is on that step it says:

'
Quote
sudo nvram boot-args="nv_disable=1"

Quote
sudo nvram boot-args="nvda_drv=1"

Obviously if you have other settings in your boot args string, you should add them at each step as well.'

^ I can't figure out if this is where I'm going wrong; I have a Windows bootcamp partition on another bay, do I need to do the nvram step again but for that boot also in order for it to work? What would that string I'd have to bash into terminal look like?

That's the only thing I can think of at this point that I'm not sure of, I might be missing something else though.

Any help would be wildly appreciate it as I just want to play some games and stop crying...

Hopefully yours

Ben

Why didn't you use screensharing and another Mac to log in in your Computer? That's a lot easier! When I got a black screen, I was able to use Firefox on another Mac and installed the driver using the keyboard and the mouse of the other computer. But of course you have to run 10.10.5, Yosemite, otherwise you'll be unable to use the nvidia driver.

 

[Socket]

This has been fairly widely reported, seems to be a regression with 346.03.03f02 or whichever version fixed the Aperture yellow screen bug. Hopefully we'll get a new driver that fixes this soon.

sigh...nvidia could you work on this fcpx bug, please? I cannot work!!! Hopp Hopp!!! Hurry Up!!!

 

[bzip]

Why didn't you use screensharing and another Mac to log in in your Computer? That's a lot easier! When I got a black screen, I was able to use Firefox on another Mac and installed the driver using the keyboard and the mouse of the other computer. But of course you have to run 10.10.5, Yosemite, otherwise you'll be unable to use the nvidia driver.

Thank you all for the help - it seems I can only now upgrade from 10.9.5 straight up to El Capitan on the App Store; I couldn't find Yosemite listed as an installer from Apple; should I go straight up?

I couldn't use screen sharing as the computer was stuck in a boot loop, I don't think it was booting up OS X successfully with the card in...

Thanks in advance...

 

[flehman]

Thank you all for the help - it seems I can only now upgrade from 10.9.5 straight up to El Capitan on the App Store; I couldn't find Yosemite listed as an installer from Apple; should I go straight up?

I couldn't use screen sharing as the computer was stuck in a boot loop, I don't think it was booting up OS X successfully with the card in...

Thanks in advance...

If you can't find a Yosemite installer anywhere then an upgrade straight up to El Cap will be your only option to get the card working. As far as Yosemite v. El Cap, you will find many opinions. For my own part, I prefer El Cap over Yosemite. El Cap corrected some of the networking problems and UI sluggishness that I had experienced under Yosemite, but I still run into some lag within apps that I had never experienced under Mavericks. YMMV.

 

[jblagden]

Thank you all for the help - it seems I can only now upgrade from 10.9.5 straight up to El Capitan on the App Store; I couldn't find Yosemite listed as an installer from Apple; should I go straight up?

I couldn't use screen sharing as the computer was stuck in a boot loop, I don't think it was booting up OS X successfully with the card in...

Thanks in advance...

If you're using a third-party Solid State Drive, you should upgrade straight to El Capitan because you won't be able to boot after upgrading to Yosemite, unless you're using an OWC Solid State Drive.

 

[sailmac]

If you're using a third-party Solid State Drive, you should upgrade straight to El Capitan because you won't be able to boot after upgrading to Yosemite, unless you're using an OWC Solid State Drive.

First I've heard of such a thing. Can you point a link where this is discussed in more detail?

Maybe I'm woefully behind the times but, really, the only 3rd party SSD that will boot Yosemite is OWC brand?

Seems to me there would be heated discussion about this everywhere!...

 

[jblagden]

First I've heard of such a thing. Can you point a link where this is discussed in more detail?

Maybe I'm woefully behind the times but, really, the only 3rd party SSD that will boot Yosemite is OWC brand?

Seems to me there would be heated discussion about this everywhere!...

It looks like there are a few other brands of Solid State Drives which will boot in Yosemite, but I’m not sure which ones.
Here’s the link you requested: http://www.zdnet.com/article/yosemite-kills-third-party-ssd-support/

 

[sailmac]

It looks like there are a few other brands of Solid State Drives which will boot in Yosemite, but I’m not sure which ones.
Here’s the link you requested: http://www.zdnet.com/article/yosemite-kills-third-party-ssd-support/

Thanks for the link.

In the past 14 months since that article was posted, both Apple and Cindori have improved the way they handle TRIM for 3rd party SSDs. It is my understanding that anyone installing the latest version of Yosemite today is unlikely to be afflicted by the particlular condition described in that article, which itself was limited to a narrow set of users.

Sorry everyone for sidetracking this GPU thread.

 

[flowrider]

If you're using a third-party Solid State Drive, you should upgrade straight to El Capitan because you won't be able to boot after upgrading to Yosemite, unless you're using an OWC Solid State Drive.

In a word - POPPYCOCK!

Lou

 

[h9826790]

If you're using a third-party Solid State Drive, you should upgrade straight to El Capitan because you won't be able to boot after upgrading to Yosemite, unless you're using an OWC Solid State Drive.

Lots of members (including myself) here use 3rd party SSD (but not the overpriced trouble making sandforce controller OWC SSD) well before El Capitan exist.

 

[antipex]

I've got a Mac Pro 1,1 running Yosemite with a Radeon HD 5870... the GPU fan has gotten so irritatingly loud that I'm considering buying a new card.

Does anyone know which cards will work with my machine in the under $200 range?