Fusion Drive or SSD?

[bent christian]

The comparison is exaggerated, only since the Op is considering 256GB vs 2TB.

Yeah, just a |LITTLE| bit exaggerated.

Actually, a lot.

Whether or not a user is going to see a noticeable difference between SSD and Fusion is dependent on their habits - how many applications they use, what files they need to access, and what is done with those files...etc. Either way, the comparison of a Formula 1 car to mini-van instantly disqualifies you from comment. It is simply not genuine and is misleading.

 

[twilexia]

As someone with the 3tb Fusion drive - go for the SSD. You won't miss the storage, but you will miss the power that the SSD can provide you even if it's just 256 GB.

Either way, the comparison of a Formula 1 car to mini-van instantly disqualifies you from comment. It is simply not genuine and is misleading.

Agreed mini-van is not the best analogy, but I wouldn't put it close to the Formula 1 car either. Definitely faster than the horse (which is the HDD). It's like having a racecar with a really small gas tank dragging a horse with you and every time you run out of gas, you'll have to pause for a few seconds to re-fill it. In those few seconds, your horse is the primary engine.

Edit: ok, and the horse has a wagon. You can definitely fit a couple more kids on that wagon/horse/racecar combo.

 

[maflynn]

The Fusion drive works great for my usage, but $300 for $100 worth of hardware is not something I could justify. Perhaps, others can.

I opted for the M395 model, which is 300 more then the M390 and for that 300, I got a faster CPU, and a better GPU and 2 TB of space. To me it was worth it.

 

[UKgaryb]

So I ordered my 5K iMac 27" Late 2015 a few weeks ago through a work scheme where we get them through benefits.

I Ordered i7 4.0ghz, 4gb M395X, 8GB RAM and 1TB SSD ...
they sent me: i7 4.0ghz, 4gb M395X, 32GB RAM and 3TB Fusion.
I used the machine for a week or so whilst they sorted it out and shipped it back and got my spec machine from Apple.

The fusion drive doesn't even come close to the SSD's, I'm used to the 512GB SSD in my Macbook Pro Retina 15" and going to the fusion drive was odd, some cases it was like the SSD and in others it just crawled; very odd experience.
I can see the lure of having 3TB in the machine but the tradeoff isn't worth it, but may be fine in some cases.

If you want a constant experience and want things blisteringly fast go for the pure SSD. I got the 1TB over the RAM as I can upgrade the ram myself.

Edit: The 1TB SSD is getting around 1800MB/S Read and 1400MB/S Write in Black Magic.... incredible, I use Fusion IO cards for heavy scientific use at work, and this comes very very close. Well worth the price Apple Charge.

 

[ScorpionT16]

Yeah, just a |LITTLE| bit exaggerated.

Actually, a lot.

Whether or not a user is going to see a noticeable difference between SSD and Fusion is dependent on their habits - how many applications they use, what files they need to access, and what is done with those files...etc. Either way, the comparison of a Formula 1 car to mini-van instantly disqualifies you from comment. It is simply not genuine and is misleading.

i'm sure the OP is smart enough to know it's not an Actual real-life performance comparison

I was leaning more towards how I feel SSD is more advanced, and like motor-sport, it's tech has streamed down into fusion/hybrid drives, with compromises. Both are great choices, my personal experiences with spinning disks hasn't been good, so I stay away for that reason alone.

Honestly, If he can handle the 256GB limit, and the cost difference. I would recommended an SSD easily.

 

[maxsix]

A hard core Apple enthusiast with a vast personal Apple ecosystem geared equally for serious work (not that others aren't) and private use, I use every conceivable storage medium for the many terabytes I've amassed since 1991.

I find Fusion useful when one doesn't apply unrealistically elevated expectations, as is so easy to do, mostly as a result of Apples deep love of making wild exaggerated hype filled claims. Pricing is typical Apple...high.

I often think if Apple would brag less and just calm down, sales would be even stronger over the long haul. Already ultra successful it's almost as though they can't shake insecurities of years gone by.

Outside of Fusions rather narrow use case, I greatly prefer my time tested Synology NAS for its great flexibility. Conversely the plethora of choices when it comes to compact lightweight inexpensive storage is better than ever.

 

[makrom]

If you want a constant experience and want things blisteringly fast go for the pure SSD. I got the 1TB over the RAM as I can upgrade the ram myself.

Define "things". Copying files internally? Sure. Copying to an external TB2 SDD raid? Absolutely. Copying to a USB3 SSD? Somewhat. To any other USB3 drive, NAS, Internet/cloud or SD cards? Very marginally at best.
Other than that, applications will start with SSD speed the first time they are being started, not just after the system learned that you are using them regularly. For most other things, it's basically irrelevant, unless you got some extremely I/O heavy tasks.
It really comes down to what you are planning to do with your computer.

 

[twilexia]

Define "things". Copying files internally? Sure. Copying to an external TB2 SDD raid? Absolutely. Copying to a USB3 SSD? Somewhat. To any other USB3 drive, NAS, Internet/cloud or SD cards? Very marginally at best.
Other than that, applications will start with SSD speed the first time they are being started, not just after the system learned that you are using them regularly. For most other things, it's basically irrelevant, unless you got some extremely I/O heavy tasks.
It really comes down to what you are planning to do with your computer.

I would say not just "extremely I/O heavy tasks." Even basic media production tasks take a hit if you're going to do them on the fusion drive. I'll give a few real world examples that I encountered in my first 3 weeks of using the latest 2015 3TB Fusion (i7, m395x, 32GB 2133mhz ram):

1. Logic Pro X. When using Apple's default samples, logic runs fine. But once I began using a third-party synth, scrolling while playing back 100% of the time produces an intolerable "cracking" sound. For just 1 track. This is fixed by setting the I/O buffer to 256 samples. However when recording, it's best to have the lowest I/O buffer your system can handle, which means you'll have to switch settings constantly while working. Tolerable? Yes. Ideal? No.

2. Premiere Pro CS6. Basic importing 1 track at 1080p to work on (NOT 4k):
1 track (Keep existing settings): 56 frames dropped within 5 seconds of playback
1 track (Change existing settings): Playback stops within 1 second, not possible to measure # of dropped frames.
Tolerable? No, especially when my 2012 MBpro (256 SSD, i7 2.3ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia 650 with 1GB VRAM) can easily handle 3 tracks of 1080p playback while dropping only 2-3 frames every 10-20 seconds.

 

[bent christian]

I would say not just "extremely I/O heavy tasks." Even basic media production tasks take a hit if you're going to do them on the fusion drive. I'll give a few real world examples that I encountered in my first 3 weeks of using the latest 2015 3TB Fusion (i7, m395x, 32GB 2133mhz ram):

2. Premiere Pro CS6. Basic importing 1 track at 1080p to work on (NOT 4k):
1 track (Keep existing settings): 56 frames dropped within 5 seconds of playback
1 track (Change existing settings): Playback stops within 1 second, not possible to measure # of dropped frames.
Tolerable? No, especially when my 2012 MBpro (256 SSD, i7 2.3ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia 650 with 1GB VRAM) can easily handle 3 tracks of 1080p playback while dropping only 2-3 frames every 10-20 seconds.

Hmm. Admittedly, I am a novice when it comes to Premiere. I only use it to render SLR footage of home movies...adjust the toning and sharpen a bit, dip to black, maybe. 1080 footage using existing settings has always run smoothly for me (CC 2015). I just pulled up my last project (only about a minute's worth of footage), and the dropped frames indicator didn't tick once. Green all the way through. Am I missing something?

 

[twilexia]

Hmm. Admittedly, I am a novice when it comes to Premiere. I only use it to render SLR footage of home movies...adjust the toning and sharpen a bit, dip to black, maybe. 1080 footage using existing settings has always run smoothly for me (CC 2015). I just pulled up my last project (only about a minute's worth of footage), and the dropped frames indicator didn't tick once. Green all the way through. Am I missing something?

How much of your Fusion drive have you filled up? I'm at 1.5TB/3TB.

My video is 10 minutes - h.264 codec, 1.52gb

When I use a smaller video file (<500mb) it also runs pretty well. But I don't consider a 10 minute 1080p video an extremely big video file either...

 

[makrom]

I would say not just "extremely I/O heavy tasks." Even basic media production tasks take a hit if you're going to do them on the fusion drive. I'll give a few real world examples that I encountered in my first 3 weeks of using the latest 2015 3TB Fusion (i7, m395x, 32GB 2133mhz ram):

1. Logic Pro X. When using Apple's default samples, logic runs fine. But once I began using a third-party synth, scrolling while playing back 100% of the time produces an intolerable "cracking" sound. For just 1 track. This is fixed by setting the I/O buffer to 256 samples. However when recording, it's best to have the lowest I/O buffer your system can handle, which means you'll have to switch settings constantly while working. Tolerable? Yes. Ideal? No.

2. Premiere Pro CS6. Basic importing 1 track at 1080p to work on (NOT 4k):
1 track (Keep existing settings): 56 frames dropped within 5 seconds of playback
1 track (Change existing settings): Playback stops within 1 second, not possible to measure # of dropped frames.
Tolerable? No, especially when my 2012 MBpro (256 SSD, i7 2.3ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia 650 with 1GB VRAM) can easily handle 3 tracks of 1080p playback while dropping only 2-3 frames every 10-20 seconds.

I don't fully understand your synthesizer issue, does it use a big library of samples? The synthesizers I know hardly access the drive at all once loaded. But there are always these situations where software behaves inappropriately and faster hardware can somewhat mitigate the problem. Not ideal, but often the only feasible solution.

Other than that, while these tasks might not be that demanding from a pure bandwidth point of view, they often require multiple sequential streams, something a single HDD is notoriously bad at if the process isn't managed well.

As for your Premiere issues in particular, I haven't seen frame drops anywhere near that in FCPX, but haven't done anything with more than 2 layers when working on the FD. I'm pretty sure it would become more of a a problem with more layers. It might also be related to some degree to the current performance issues of Premiere in EC.

Regardless, I don't think those are tasks well suited for a FD. Not that FD iMacs couldn't be used for these things, but I would definitely use external storage for recording and playback related content during production.

 

[twilexia]

Regardless, I don't think those are tasks well suited for a FD. Not that FD iMacs couldn't be used for these things, but I would definitely use external storage for recording and playback related content during production.

Agreed that external storage is better (and most likely the only option at this point). However if I was going that route I might as well not have a fusion drive at all, it becomes essentially a glorified internal backup drive.

 

[bent christian]

How much of your Fusion drive have you filled up? I'm at 1.5TB/3TB.

My video is 10 minutes - h.264 codec, 1.52gb

When I use a smaller video file (<500mb) it also runs pretty well. But I don't consider a 10 minute 1080p video an extremely big video file either...

Just under a minute, Canon h.264 codec, 400MB size. 1TB Fusion, about 1/3 full.

As a test, I dropped in new footage behind that. 2.5 minutes out of the same camera, 1.11GB size. Put a bit of sharpening on it ("18"). 2 frames dropped during the transition from one file to the next, but nothing I would call lag.

Maybe the difference is improved file handling in CC?

Just under a minute, Canon h.264 codec, 400MB size. 1TB Fusion, about 1/3 full.

As a test, I dropped in new footage behind that. 2.5 minutes out of the same camera, 1.11GB size. Put a bit of sharpening on it ("18"). 2 frames dropped during the transition from one file to the next, but nothing I would call lag.

Maybe the difference is improved file handling in CC?

At full resolution playback frames start to drop. 1/2 and 1/4 playback resolution are not dropping frames. 1/4 is usually adequate for my screen size.

 

[twilexia]

At full resolution playback frames start to drop. 1/2 and 1/4 playback resolution are not dropping frames. 1/4 is usually adequate for my screen size.

Well, thanks for testing. I'm no expert. I tried doing two 720p videos, that seemed to work OK, maybe about 5 dropped frames per 10 seconds (with preview screen at 1/4 res). Can you test out putting multiple 1080p tracks and playing it back?

 

[makrom]

Agreed that external storage is better (and most likely the only option at this point). However if I was going that route I might as well not have a fusion drive at all, it becomes essentially a glorified internal backup drive.

True, if you aren't using your computer for other things that you can use the extra space for.
As I use it as my personal (private) computer, I tend to have tons of data on it. Many applications and games, of which there are many that I use rarely, lots of disk images, old movies and photos I made, and so on. These are mostly things I wouldn't really need to have on internal storage, but I still find it convenient.

 

[maflynn]

I find Fusion useful when one doesn't apply unrealistically elevated expectations, as is so easy to do, mostly as a result of Apples deep love of making wild exaggerated hype filled claims. Pricing is typical Apple...high.

My expectations were rather low, and I was pleasantly surprised. In pricing out the particular model, I found that by upgrading the mid range 5k iMac to the 2TB Fusion drive, was too close to the price of the M395 upper model, so I went that route. I think I would have been disappointed with the 1TB fusion drive so I didn't want to take a chance on that model.

Overall for OS X, the performance has been very good. I still have a few apps to install/configure but overall I'm done. I've not really pushed the iMac quite yet but I'm ramping up with my activities.

So far, I'll go out on a limb and say this has been the best Mac I've purchased, I was saying for years the 2012 rMBP was the best laptop I've ever owned but I'm really happy with this iMac. The screen is downright gorgeous and expansive.

 

[bent christian]

Well, thanks for testing. I'm no expert. I tried doing two 720p videos, that seemed to work OK, maybe about 5 dropped frames per 10 seconds (with preview screen at 1/4 res). Can you test out putting multiple 1080p tracks and playing it back?

So, stacking the video files, rather than placing them one after another? Sure. I can do that later tonight.

I am not sure what all of this means and how it applies specifically to our machines, but it looks like Adobe did implement new optimizations with the Creative Cloud release. Specifically sticking out to me:

• GPU-optimized playback
• Enhanced graphics performance in Mercury Playback Engine

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/versions.html

 

[twilexia]

True, if you aren't using your computer for other things that you can use the extra space for.
As I use it as my personal (private) computer, I tend to have tons of data on it. Many applications and games, of which there are many that I use rarely, lots of disk images, old movies and photos I made, and so on. These are mostly things I wouldn't really need to have on internal storage, but I still find it convenient.

I had the same mindset as you when I selected the drive (using the FD as a big happy drive to backup to), but now I'm beginning to change. If the fusion drive can't even handle the basic tasks I need it to do right now, what problems will I run into in 1 year? 2 years?

So, stacking the video files, rather than placing them one after another? Sure. I can do that later tonight.

I am not sure what all of this means and how it applies specifically to our machines, but it looks like Adobe did implement new optimizations with the Creative Cloud release. Specifically sticking out to me:

• GPU-optimized playback
• Enhanced graphics performance in Mercury Playback Engine

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/versions.html

I agree that it seems Adobe CC made upgrades to their software, so it's pointless for us to compare as it's not apples to apples (hence why the task of testing the FD solely falls onto you ) I dislike the subscription model of the CC suite so I'm sticking to CS6 for now.

 

[makrom]

I had the same mindset as you when I selected the drive (using the FD as a big happy drive to backup to), but now I'm beginning to change. If the fusion drive can't even handle the basic tasks I need it to do right now, what problems will I run into in 1 year? 2 years?

Well, my personal requirements haven't changed that much over the last 2 years.
But I never had any I/O related issues in audio production when just using software synths. The issues I had were almost exclusively CPU related. I haven't used Logic much, rather FL, Abbleton Live and some time ago Reason, as well as various things from NI. Running those things on systems with only a HDD has never been a big deal, as long as things like prerecorded tracks were on fast storage. And even this has only ever been a problem when using several simultaneous tracks if they were on a slow HDD.

 

[twilexia]

Well, my personal requirements haven't changed that much over the last 2 years.
But I never had any I/O related issues in audio production when just using software synths. The issues I had were almost exclusively CPU related. I haven't used Logic much, rather FL, Abbleton Live and some time ago Reason, as well as various things from NI. Running those things on systems with only a HDD has never been a big deal, as long as things like prerecorded tracks were on fast storage. And even this has only ever been a problem when using several simultaneous tracks if they were on a slow HDD.

Fast storage as in external SSDs/RAIDs?

 

[benjai]

If you need every bit of performance, then go SSD. If you are a regular used, go for fusion. As a regular user, it's unlikely you'll even notice any performance difference, and life will be much simpler with everything on a single drive.

 

[vng01]

What would be the Best solution for a musician (beatmaker) who is working With Cubase/Logic With 10-30 tracks and vst's/vstis and other plugins/effects. I5 With 2TB FD or 256 GB SSD?

 

[fandangoguy]

wow...Premiere droppig frames when using internal FD...even my old 7200RPM 2009 can handle some premiere without dropping that many frames! but I never edit in the internal drive- lacie firewire all the way...so I guess getting a FD with a new imac would be ok as long as all the media is stored externally...or are users saying that premiere drops frames even when all footage (1080p) is on external drives?
pls share objective facts!
thanks
E

 

[twilexia]

wow...Premiere droppig frames when using internal FD...even my old 7200RPM 2009 can handle some premiere without dropping that many frames! but I never edit in the internal drive- lacie firewire all the way...so I guess getting a FD with a new imac would be ok as long as all the media is stored externally...or are users saying that premiere drops frames even when all footage (1080p) is on external drives?
pls share objective facts!
thanks
E

AFAIK, I'm the only one bitching about premiere pro (cs6) dropping frames on a fusion drive. I had the same stutters on an external SSD connection connected via USB (samsung evo, t1). No stutters on an internal SSD however.

 

[fandangoguy]

hmmm...I intend to use Premiere CS6 as well-I will finally abandon my beloved FCP 7 I currently use...and I hate AVID media composer 8...and no idea what to do with Final Cut X...
I won't use USB 3- I will instead get the thunderbolt to firewire adaptor and use my current lacie drives which have their own power supply...this should work, right? I don't think USB 3 is good enough for editing video-I only do 1080p for now.
if I can get the budget, I may go for the 521GB SSD- but it would be nice to have more internal storage for photos and stuff...and so the price for a new imac goes up and up...
e