Future Apple TV as PVR?

[milo]

The point, in the UK at least, is that 40% of households don't have a cable or satellite provider - they use free to air TV. Which doesn't come with a DVR.

They are free to...but they don't.

I think the obvious conclusion is that people like DVR but aren't willing to pay outright for it. The vast majority of the ones in use are the ones provided by cable companies for little or no outright cost but subsidized by the monthly cable bills.

 

[cicottrell]

They are free to...but they don't.

I think the obvious conclusion is that people like DVR but aren't willing to pay outright for it. The vast majority of the ones in use are the ones provided by cable companies for little or no outright cost but subsidized by the monthly cable bills.

Maybe people aren't willing to buy a standalone DVR because currently, they're not very good. Features wise, my brothers DVR is excellent. Interface wise, its terrible. I spend all day working with computers and it took me hours to work out how to pause the TV. Apple can fix that. MP3 players were around for years before the iPod. It took Apple's interface, accessories and (later) iTunes content to turn it into the biggest gadget ever.

If Apple can turn round to Joe Public and say "we've got a product here that will display all your photos, tunes, movies, allow you rent and buy movies and popular TV shows online, record, pause rewind and archive TV and it will play the latest HD releases all for £300 (or whatever), I think it will be a killer. If people are willing to pay hundreds of pounds on a giant HD telly (replacing a perfectly usable CRT telly), then they will be willing to buy a box to put some content on it. HD telly is rare and expensive in the UK at the moment, yet everyone has HD screens. The market is waiting.

 

[MikeL]

Maybe people aren't willing to buy a standalone DVR because currently, they're not very good. Features wise, my brothers DVR is excellent. Interface wise, its terrible. I spend all day working with computers and it took me hours to work out how to pause the TV.

Horse pucky. I've got a ReplayTV, and it's dead simple. Simple enough that I bought one for my mother who has fallen in love with it. I've used Tivos as well, and I can't imagine it taking anyone hours to figure out how to pause the program.

Too many inexperienced people offer opinions.

 

[dogtanian]

Horse pucky. I've got a ReplayTV, and it's dead simple. Simple enough that I bought one for my mother who has fallen in love with it. I've used Tivos as well, and I can't imagine it taking anyone hours to figure out how to pause the program.

Too many inexperienced people offer opinions.

Tivo in the UK died pretty quickly. Sky+ is the most popular DVR supplied by the Satellite company who offer a HD version also. That's what I've got to complement my TV.

I think I agree with cicottrell to a certain extent. There are a lot of no-name DVR's that cheapskates (No offence ) buy which offer a crap user-experience and GUI.

I for one would love a PVR in the new Apple TV to go with Sky+ just in case I want to record three programmes at once hmm, unlikely but still would appreciate a PVR in the Apple TV.

Also what-on-earth does Horse-Pucky mean?

 

[cicottrell]

Horse pucky. I've got a ReplayTV, and it's dead simple. Simple enough that I bought one for my mother who has fallen in love with it. I've used Tivos as well, and I can't imagine it taking anyone hours to figure out how to pause the program.

Too many inexperienced people offer opinions.

According to Wikipedia, ReplayTV is subscription based. What on earth to you pay for that we don't get for free in the UK, user-interface aside?

 

[MikeL]

According to Wikipedia, ReplayTV is subscription based. What on earth to you pay for that we don't get for free in the UK, user-interface aside?

I have no idea what you're asking, but I assume it's something about what the subscription is for.

Stand-alone DVRs in the US used a business model that was dependent upon on ongoing revenue stream. The hardware was/is generally sold through retail channels, at a normal markup.

DVRs need continually updated "guide" information. Things such as what your particular cable/satellita/OTA channels are and the programming that's available for each time of the day. They'll generally "phone home" once a day to update that information, either going through a person's home network or a dial-up connection. Without guide data DVRs become almost worthless as a technology, essentially being hard-drive based VCRs. With guide data they offer a much richer experience. Stand-alone DVRs generally won't work without guide data, other than the bottom-line off-brands.

So the way the business model was structured, manufacturers would get regular monthly payments for relatively small amounts for the service life of the DVR. Not a bad plan. Both RTV and Tivo also sold "lifetime" subscriptions, where the guide service was bundled with the hardware for the life of the unit.

The guide data also includes new IR codes for different set-top boxes.

 

[jeremy.king]

I currently have a Tivo, which is hacked to upload shows to my Mac, which I then put on my iPhone or burn onto DVD.

Is it an older Tivo? Why hack your Tivo? Toast 8 comes with TiVoToGo™

 

[jeffmgr]

Tivo Hack

I currently have a Tivo, which is hacked to upload shows to my Mac, which I then put on my iPhone or burn onto DVD.

But, I was thinking recently, wouldn't it be great if Apple released a brand new Apple TV, which was also a PVR? You connect it to your satellite/cable etc. box, and it records onto its harddrive, and full integrated wirelessly with your Mac. Apple could come up with a great UI. And essentially making the Apple TV fully two-way, taking content from your TV back to your Mac.

Does anyone think this is even remotely possible, in the coming couple of years?

MarkW,

Without getting too far off topic, how does one 'hack' the Tivo to allow it to record on a Mac?

thanks,

jeffmgr

 

[donnydjr]

If you recall...

Apple said a few quarters back that both iPhone and AppleTV revenue would be spread across a two year period, rather than taking immediate credit. The iPhone is obviously doing this for the monthly revenue split with AT+T and other providers, but why AppleTV?

This must have something to do with movie rentals.

Also, agreed that Apple could offer a complete DVR solution, better than anything out there, at the expense of iTunes TV show sales... but really, what percentage of revenue from the iTunes store is from TV shows? Can't be much... and if NBC and others don't want to play, maybe there's a way to DVR certain stations/shows and iTunes is the option for the others?

And finally, folks are missing that the DVR business for satellite and cable companies brings in recurring monthly revenue... such as add-on fees per DVR box... something that I'm sure Apple would love to get into if the business model works out.

I'm sure Steve and Apple have a few options in their master plan... they're just trying to figure out the optimal way forward.

 

[MikeL]

If Apple made a car it'd be better than any other car out there.

Why do people assume such things?

 

[cicottrell]

I have no idea what you're asking, but I assume it's something about what the subscription is for.

Stand-alone DVRs in the US used a business model that was dependent upon on ongoing revenue stream. The hardware was/is generally sold through retail channels, at a normal markup.

DVRs need continually updated "guide" information. Things such as what your particular cable/satellita/OTA channels are and the programming that's available for each time of the day. They'll generally "phone home" once a day to update that information, either going through a person's home network or a dial-up connection. Without guide data DVRs become almost worthless as a technology, essentially being hard-drive based VCRs. With guide data they offer a much richer experience. Stand-alone DVRs generally won't work without guide data, other than the bottom-line off-brands.

So the way the business model was structured, manufacturers would get regular monthly payments for relatively small amounts for the service life of the DVR. Not a bad plan. Both RTV and Tivo also sold "lifetime" subscriptions, where the guide service was bundled with the hardware for the life of the unit.

The guide data also includes new IR codes for different set-top boxes.

Ah, now I see where you're coming from. In the UK, the DVR market works differently. You buy the box (admititly, more expensive in the first place), plug it in to your TV source (aerial etc) and your tv, and thats it. The 14 day electronic programme guide (EPG) is downloaded automatically from your TV source, so there are no fee's to pay, no need for dialup/internet access at all. You can still set things to record or even whole series's to record in advance. But its free.

All my arguments about having the AppleTV as a DVR have been based on the assumption that the EPG is free via the aerial.

 

[milo]

Maybe people aren't willing to buy a standalone DVR because currently, they're not very good.

I'd agree that's one factor. With ANY product, people look at bang for the buck. I have no doubt that a good DVR at a low price would sell like hotcakes.

If they improve the aTV, I'm sure it will sell better. But even if they made it an absolutely killer box, I think it still wouldn't become a huge mainstream product like the iPod until the price comes down as well.

Personally, I believe that the parts are simply too expensive to make a box with all the features people want, at a price that mainstream consumers are willling to pay. Until the price of the technology needed comes down, I don't think we'll see one of these boxes from anyone becoming a huge seller. But prices will come down, and the situation will change - in a year or two it will be possible to ship a box like this that does 1080p, full surround sound and more for $99 or less, and they will be as big as the iPod is now. We're just not there yet.

 

[Jarra]

New AppleTv 3.0 software

"The new software for Apple TV features a simpler and faster interface that gives you instant access to your favorite content," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of Internet Services. "HD movies and HD TV shows from iTunes have been a huge hit with Apple TV customers, and with Apple TV 3.0 they get great new features including iTunes Extras, Genius Mixes and Internet radio."

Well, there still appears to be no pvr functionality. I didn't really expect it but still one can only hope. I am looking for another TiVo like device. I still like to watch free to air and record it. It looks like a MS media centre will do the trick. If the ATV did it, I would probably end up buying more movies etc. But I am not interested until it becomes a viable TiVo replacement out of the box.

 

[mhdena]

"The new software for Apple TV features a simpler and faster interface that gives you instant access to your favorite content," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of Internet Services. "HD movies and HD TV shows from iTunes have been a huge hit with Apple TV customers, and with Apple TV 3.0 they get great new features including iTunes Extras, Genius Mixes and Internet radio."

Well, there still appears to be no pvr functionality. I didn't really expect it but still one can only hope. I am looking for another TiVo like device. I still like to watch free to air and record it. It looks like a MS media centre will do the trick. If the ATV did it, I would probably end up buying more movies etc. But I am not interested until it becomes a viable TiVo replacement out of the box.

You should look at a OTA DishPal DVR, this will record OTA HD shows and you can connect a EHD to it for more storage.

I for one don't see why some are clamoring for an ATV to be like a swiss army knife.

Besides it would be competing against itself (itunes) if it did what some want it to do.

 

[iron15]

cheaper shows

Why can't they bring their prices down on rentals of tv shows and movies. I think they would have so many more people
renting.

 

[zedsdead]

Why can't they bring their prices down on rentals of tv shows and movies. I think they would have so many more people
renting.

I agree. They are very overpriced. A subscription video service would also help dramatically.

 

[King Mook Mook]

"The new software for Apple TV features a simpler and faster interface that gives you instant access to your favorite content," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of Internet Services. "HD movies and HD TV shows from iTunes have been a huge hit with Apple TV customers, and with Apple TV 3.0 they get great new features including iTunes Extras, Genius Mixes and Internet radio."

Well, there still appears to be no pvr functionality. I didn't really expect it but still one can only hope. I am looking for another TiVo like device. I still like to watch free to air and record it. It looks like a MS media centre will do the trick. If the ATV did it, I would probably end up buying more movies etc. But I am not interested until it becomes a viable TiVo replacement out of the box.

Was it really necessary to dig up a year-old thread?!?! However back on topic I doubt Apple will put a DVR in the Apple TV. Firstly for the reason that another poster stated that there are too many types of broadcast to be able to put in the Apple TV and convert to a codec it can read, and also because if they enter a DVR they are cannibalising their own market in that many of the people who would get TV shows off the iTunes store can just set it to record on their DVR.

King Mook Mook