Future of Game Development on Mac OS X

[Tesseract]

lol @ pc gaming dying comments. Guess where console games have to be developed on? Thats right. The PC. PC gaming will only die if console gaming dies first.

The only way PC gaming will ever "die", or even begin "dying out," is when consoles gain all of the advantages that PCs have (mods, customization, dedicated servers & server mods and management, keyboard/mouse [or any other game controller you could possibly imagine. Hell, you can even get the PS Move, Kinect, and Wii remotes to work on PC], and freedom of arbitrary services like Xbox Live). Which basically means, the consoles will then have turned into PCs.

 

[BornAgainMac]

The Mac App store along with the gaming knowledge learned from iOS will improving gaming on the Mac side.

 

[Stirolak123]

The iPad is hot. It dawned on me when I saw the guy on CNN running around on his show queuing up a big screen behind him with one. I fly a lot and see business people carrying iPads (an alternative to their PCs) as their data source while traveling. At a meeting yesterday with my realtor, he pops one out and uses it for a presentation. Regarding games, I can see casual gamers opting for the iPad. Hardcore gamer's not...

Just curious would a game like Gears of War run on the iPad? How the heck would you control it?

Considering hardcore gamers play fps games using controllers now why not? Why wouldn't hardcore gamers use it if they can afford it (and alien ware users certainly can) if apple markets it right and gives incentives to more galaxy on fire 2 like games and game loft style settlers and other tts games? The iPad touch screen is superior to other handhelds and consoles with a few specific genres like rts games. And most hardcore gamers play only pc games and certainly don't go around with a nintendo ds or a pap but alien ware laptops. Hardcore gamers play sins of the solar empire and empire total war, those games and genres have potential on iPad if apple gives the big developers incentive or the user base grows enough.

 

[Stirolak123]

The Mac was never a huge target as far as a gaming platform, it's just id Software always supported it, just like Blizzard and a few others. Don't be mad at developers, be upset at Apple or Jobs. Microsoft, at least, worked on hard on DirectX for many years. Although the adoption of DX10 and 11 has been slow across the board, they did add new features to it since DX9, which is what every game these days supports on the PC.

id Engines are always in OpenGL, which works out well for OSX because that's the only graphic API it has.

The last public id Engine (id Tech 4) was the Doom 3 engine from 2004 (!). This was used in a few games after that but not much in the last few years. I think the last few big games were Quake 4 ('05) and "Wolfenstein" ('09), not even made by id (Raven) and Quake: Enemy Territory. This engine is going GNU public next year.

The new engine, used in Rage is something I'd like to see in other games. If Bethesda won't allow it to be licensed like id did before, it could hurt Mac and PC gaming, especially the Mac. I consider Mac gaming as a subset of "PC Gaming".

Anyway, if a Mac friendly Rage engine isn't used outside of Bethesda, it will hurt the Mac more, because Bethesda/ZeniMax already puts out other Pgames for the PC that use DX9, such as Fallout and Elder Scrolls. It's doubtful these DX9 titles will ever come to the Mac.

Who the heck uses direct 3d as their in game graphical setting anymore? Almost every game plays and looks better with open gl. Directs is only for direct3d not open gl right? If not why wouldn't jobs just pay gates to have it as an option like he did with bootcamp and word?

 

[archurban]

well, it is very sad. even PC game market has been died slowly in the past few years. unfortunately it's all about damn console boxes. so what do you expect? mac? are you kidding me? even Steam has tried to encourage(?) PC gaming including mac, it won't work very well. of course, there are still lots of PC gamers who continue to wait for something anyway.

in terms of game development trend, console is the first. then if company won't have enough time, they usually just port console version to PC. that's why PC version is always delayed. recently, that thing happens than the past a lot. especially, I am so pissed off when Ubisoft delayed PC version of Assassin's creed brotherhood to Feb, 2011.

forget about future. it's doom.

 

[Huntn]

forget about future. it's doom.

Make sure you own a console!

Have a good Thanksgiving!

 

[archurban]

Make sure you own a console!

Have a good Thanksgiving!

yeah, but I won't. personally, I hate console. I am not good at controlling game pad. graphic is just a joke.

 

[iMacN00b]

well, it is very sad. even PC game market has been died slowly in the past few years. unfortunately it's all about damn console boxes. so what do you expect? mac? are you kidding me? even Steam has tried to encourage(?) PC gaming including mac, it won't work very well. of course, there are still lots of PC gamers who continue to wait for something anyway.

in terms of game development trend, console is the first. then if company won't have enough time, they usually just port console version to PC. that's why PC version is always delayed. recently, that thing happens than the past a lot. especially, I am so pissed off when Ubisoft delayed PC version of Assassin's creed brotherhood to Feb, 2011.

forget about future. it's doom.

I tend to agree. I was playing Fake Factory "Pimped" Half life 2 last night (See my youtube) and having just finished Black Ops, it was incredible to see a game from 2007 looking head and shoulders above "Max settings" Black ops on my PC.

Why? Because valve created Source to be a PC platform that would scale and adapt with the advances of PC tech. Fakefactory then took this to the extreme with 20Gb of extra textures. It looks absolutley amazing.

Then on Black Ops you have a game geometry and design that is limited by console. The best you can hope for is higher res textures, thats it.

I would say the 2007's Crysis is still far advanced from Black Ops. In fact I would also say that the engine in black ops is almost the same as that used in their last game, "World at war".

The next wave of ethusiast PC gaming will only happen if "Killer" games are released. Crysis 2 and RAGE were my best hope, but they too have been given the "Console treatment."

As a technology fan, I find this sad. The only upside is that most mid powered PC's can play the latest games.

Oh well, I suggest everyone gives Fake Factory a go, to remind themselves why we game on PC/Mac in the firstplace!

 

[0098386]

We'll be fine without id Tech 5-
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/24/unreal-engine-3-overview-video-touts-new-visual-effects/.

well, it is very sad. even PC game market has been died slowly in the past few years

No it hasn't. Please provide some facts to back up this "PC is dying" argument, because Steam is proving otherwise.

in terms of game development trend, console is the first. then if company won't have enough time, they usually just port console version to PC. that's why PC version is always delayed. recently, that thing happens than the past a lot. especially, I am so pissed off when Ubisoft delayed PC version of Assassin's creed brotherhood to Feb, 2011.

This isn't a development trend at all. Infact nothing has changed regarding this since gaming began. You're just selecting the games you play and calling it a trend.
The big budget indie games> RUSE, Defense Grid, Aquaria, Super Meat Boy, World of Goo. All PC titles that were later ported to other consoles in development time.
The big budget PC games> UE3, Source, id Tech 4... all ported (including their games) to consoles.
Only one engine has gone the way of preferring consoles - Cryengine 3. But for all we know it's just Crytek games that are focussing on consoles.

forget about future. it's doom.

Absolutely not.
Read my original post, do some research and stop spreading FUD.

 

[Venkman90]

archuban is a troll, he just posts drivel in every thread, it's either him telling you you should not even dare to ask about gaming on a mac or now it's this crap about "omg consolez is meak pc geam die"

PC gaming changed, it didn't die, and Steam changed it.

Having to go to a ****** retail outlet like Game with pikeys to buy £40 games? nope.

Having to order online from Play and hope they ship it soon and pay for delivery? nope.

Get the games I want from the largest libary on the face of the earth when I want on the day it comes out and play it on either my desktop or laptop with cloud saves and constant year round sales? hells yes.

forget about future. it's doom.

I know your grasp on English is limited, but that is so emo it's actually funny.

Unless you meant the future is Doom the game? in which case you need to upgrade your PC

 

[iMacN00b]

I think there is too much emotion here.

Before the last generation of consoles, I was an avid gamer. My path from 2000 to 2006 was as follows:

- Voodoo 2 x2
- Voodoo 3500
- Nvidia 4400Ti
- AT Radeon 9800 Pro
- Nvidia 7800 GT

Then I decided to buy an iMac 27 this summer, not as a gaming platform, but for fun I thought I'd try some games like Crysis out.

The reason I write this is give perspective that I am not a console fanboy. I own all consoles and have done since my 8bit mastersystem, but have enjoyed PC gaming just as much.

I honestly believe that "PC Enthusiast" gaming is on a decline. It seems that multiplay screens are the current FAD, using wide resolutions to try and get some ROI from your expensive GPU purchases.

I also know that ID are a company that made me upgrade my GPU in the past, so if their new tech is amazing I will buy a new rig with uber GPU and compatability on the mini-display port card of the iMac (Like some high end Eyefinity cards today)

I therefore want PC gaming to come back as the "Place to be" for uber high end visuals, but today the consoles are driving profits, and piracy on PC has been an issue for publishers. Steam is a fantastic system and one I always try to use, (COD Black ops was the last purchase) so fingers crossed Half life 3/ Portal 2 and RAGE will show the world that consoles are far behind PC.

I have enjoyed playing my console games on the iMac PC versions this year, so 60fps at 1080p or native is wonderful! On my last Half Life 2 video at 06:00 I switch to 1080p from 2560x1440 and the FPS change from 40 to 60fps was just incredible.

In conclusion: PC gaming has changed, but some of the big hitters have products in the pipeline that might have a dramatic effect.

Reference material: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=277729

"PC 'a generation ahead' of PS3 and 360, but being held back - Crytek"

Cyrtek: "I generally think it's still developers' mentality [to blame]," he added. "A lot nowadays don't consider PC a big issue any more; their [sales] expectations are nowhere near what they are for the console versions. Until the PC market creates comparable revenues, companies are not going to spend enough on the PC SKU of a game."

 

[0098386]

^ Crytek are just a bit upset at the rampant piracy of their games. Though oddly they still cram Crysis and Warhead with archaic, install-limited DRM as if that's hampering piracy. That's the very reason I haven't bought either the games yet (that and my iMac will never run them ).

archuban is a troll

Duly noted!

 

[Stirolak123]

I think the wii is much better than the current consoles. Playing games in 2d but with interactive backgrounds that are nostalgic like dk returns and new Mario bros is much more enjoyable than the constant gta sequels and other games. The pc is much better for those cause of mods anyway, and for portables and on your bed the iPad rocks. The racing games control real well with tilt and playing samurai 2 vengeance on hard is hardcore.

 

[tevion5]

+1 Winni hit the nail on the head. As much as PC gamers hate to hear it, its a dying platform. The only real thing keeping it alive is that consoles do not have mice and keyboards, so FPS's and RTS's tend to stay alive on the PC.

And maybe the fact that frame rates and graphics are of an incredibly higher standard? Look at Battlefield 3 on a console an then look at it maxed out at 60fps on a PC. For people who actually are aware of the quality out there and enough of an interest to afford it, there will always be a demand for PC games.

Steam has saved PC gaming and amazingly I see more and more of my friends swith from consoles to PC every month. There are just to many advantages to ignore.

 

[ScottishCaptain]

Is there some reason why you need to use a pre-written game engine?

Have developers forgotten how to write their own stuff? As far as I'm concerned, so long as I have a working C/C++ compiler (for which Clang is widely viewed as the best right now)- I'm more then happy to write my own engines.

You don't need to use idTech or UE3 or Unity to make a great game. I would even go so far as to say that only lazy developers use pre-written game engines. There was a point in time in which everyone wrote their own engines from the ground up (around 1996-1999), and small teams of developers did just fine on their own (giving us some of the greatest genre-defining games ever).

So once again, what is with the obsession over using a licensed engine from someone else? Who gives a ****? Man up and write your own engine, be a pioneer, push the limits of your own creativity. Yes, it's hard, but it's also extremely rewarding. Taking your idea and diving into the depths of engine design with it and building your product from the ground up is a great way to achieve results that nobody else can replicate. If you use UE3 or idTech, then you'll land up with a game that looks and works like every other UE3 and idTech game out there. What happened to being original?

Using these pre-written engines (especially that joke they call UDK) is precisely what these companies want you to do. They want you to license their engines. They want you to think it's too hard to write your own engine, because then you'd be competing with them. If you're using their engine then you're playing by their rules, so they can control you and make sure you're never a threat to the triple-A titles.

I think the worst possible thing an indie developer can do to themselves is say "oh, engine development is too hard, we'll just use XYZ instead". It demonstrates that the indie developer is: A) too lazy to bother doing the "hard work", that they're only in it for the easy ride, and B) they don't care enough about their product to go to the lengths required to make it great.

Just my $0.02.

-SC

 

[doh123]

Is there some reason why you need to use a pre-written game engine?

time and money...

using something like Unity can let you make a game for iOS, Android, PS3, Xbox, Wii, Linux, Mac, Windows... cutting years off development time. Sure you can make some rudimentary engine and get something out pretty quick, but it wouldn't be as good in a similar time frame unless you have tons of money and resources. I wouldn't waste the time if an engine exists that can do what I need already. You shouldn't grab an engine and try to make your game fit into it... but if your game will work perfectly in a pre-existing engine, time/money is always a huge consideration. Was probably a bit easier to make profits back when you are referring too, but these days you can spend just as much time making a great mobile/PC game and only get $5 to $15 a sale... not selling tons of copies at $50.

 

[koolmagicguy]

The Mac never was a gaming platform

Myst was originally made for the Mac and it was the best selling game of all time from 1993 - 2002.

While there is greater success on Windows and XBox, publishers are realizing that Mac users also want to play games.

 

[Slow Programmer]

I am late to PC gaming in any serious form having used an xbox 360 since they came out and a PS2 before. I build my first, "gaming," computer last fall and really hate trying to use the consoles now. They speed differences are incredible. On Skyrim for example the loading screens between different areas take about 10 to 15 seconds on the xbox. The same screens take 2 seconds on my computer. Graphics are smoother. I have been using a ton of mods that have made the games have more depth. I hope I never have to go back to an archaic console.

 

[AndiS.]

Second:500,000 people surveyed, and 42% of 360s had to be replaced. 55% of those people had to have it replaced more than once.

http://****xbox.com/

still think xbox 360 is a great platform?



idtech is a great engine, just look at their latest version idtech 5 they are using for Rage.

My 360 actually was replaced around 6 times, but this also brought me many benefits (discounts, free stuff, even a free console). That said, I still think it's a great console, as is the PS 3.

Lately I've been exclusively gaming on PC though, but I definitely keep my consoles around for exclusive titles (Gears of War, God of War) and am looking forward to the next generation consoles.

 

[kingtj]

A few thoughts on consoles and gaming ....

Let me first say I'm not really your "stereotypical" gamer. I'm 41 years old for starters (old enough that when I reveal my age while playing a round of TF2 or what-not, someone always goes "Woah! No way!").

I don't really do a lot of gaming because hey, I've got a full time job and family at home.... It's more of a way to unwind before bedtime once in a while, or to kill time on a slow weekend, for me.

That said though, I've been into console and computer gaming since the Atari 2600 days, and I've seen a lot of stuff come and go.

I'm not sure what the next generation of consoles will bring, but there are a lot of rumors and indicators out there saying BOTH Sony and Microsoft want to lock game purchases down so it's not possible to resell used titles anymore. If the Playstation 4 and next XBox do this? I think they're going to find a huge backlash! It could be just what's needed to see gaming come back to the Mac and PC.

I think the biggest reason this might not fly has to do with pressure put on them by other retailers like GameStop, who would effectively be put out of business with such a move. But I'm also not sure they're a big enough player to force the hand of Microsoft / Sony? They might just evolve and start selling more PC software titles, or specialize only in "vintage" items?

Maybe the plan is to go all digital, similar to Steam - but on a "console-wide" level? No more blu-ray disc player and titles on optical discs? But that would also mean no more console gaming anywhere you don't have a good Internet connection.... Again, that will turn a lot of people away.

Whatever the case, I think there's a general "vibe" out there (including in the top ranks at Apple) that we're entering some kind of "post PC" world, where people will mostly dump their personal computers in exchange for iPad type devices. Those same people seem to believe the smartphones and tablets will eventually take over the whole gaming scene. Personally, I think that's ridiculous. A tablet is a better solution than a computer for SOME people with certain needs. It's never going to be a direct replacement though. You'll ALWAYS be able to pack more video processing and raw CPU power in a full blown computer than in a light, thin device with only a touch-screen for input.

The tide is turning ... and all I know is, we're in for some interesting changes in the next few years!

 

[antonis]

Let me first say I'm not really your "stereotypical" gamer. I'm 41 years old for starters (old enough that when I reveal my age while playing a round of TF2 or what-not, someone always goes "Woah! No way!").

I don't really do a lot of gaming because hey, I've got a full time job and family at home.... It's more of a way to unwind before bedtime once in a while, or to kill time on a slow weekend, for me.

That said though, I've been into console and computer gaming since the Atari 2600 days, and I've seen a lot of stuff come and go.

I'm not sure what the next generation of consoles will bring, but there are a lot of rumors and indicators out there saying BOTH Sony and Microsoft want to lock game purchases down so it's not possible to resell used titles anymore. If the Playstation 4 and next XBox do this? I think they're going to find a huge backlash! It could be just what's needed to see gaming come back to the Mac and PC.

I think the biggest reason this might not fly has to do with pressure put on them by other retailers like GameStop, who would effectively be put out of business with such a move. But I'm also not sure they're a big enough player to force the hand of Microsoft / Sony? They might just evolve and start selling more PC software titles, or specialize only in "vintage" items?

Maybe the plan is to go all digital, similar to Steam - but on a "console-wide" level? No more blu-ray disc player and titles on optical discs? But that would also mean no more console gaming anywhere you don't have a good Internet connection.... Again, that will turn a lot of people away.

Whatever the case, I think there's a general "vibe" out there (including in the top ranks at Apple) that we're entering some kind of "post PC" world, where people will mostly dump their personal computers in exchange for iPad type devices. Those same people seem to believe the smartphones and tablets will eventually take over the whole gaming scene. Personally, I think that's ridiculous. A tablet is a better solution than a computer for SOME people with certain needs. It's never going to be a direct replacement though. You'll ALWAYS be able to pack more video processing and raw CPU power in a full blown computer than in a light, thin device with only a touch-screen for input.

The tide is turning ... and all I know is, we're in for some interesting changes in the next few years!

That was an interesting post to read. I'm a veteran gamer as well, in my 38 now, and I think I'll agree with most of your post. I, too, believe that a touch device will never replace a real gaming device either this will be a PC/Mac or a gaming console. I believe that touch devices open a new market, parallel to the existing ones, for a specific target group. They do fill better some different needs (e.g. gaming on the go) so they can co-exist. I wouldn't expect touch-gaming in the near future to canibalize console/computer game sales. Totally different leagues. They seem to be killing the portable game consoles, though, judging by the low sales of PS Vita, regardless of being an exceptional piece of h/w.

On the other hand, the real competition will be between computers and consoles as they both target the same "desktop" gaming style. I think that the era of the physical medias are over (apple has also played a big part to this), hence next gen. consoles will turn towards online stores completely, just like computers do.

To be honest, I am more curious of Apple's next moves on the gaming world. Are they going to support this - at last - more seriously ? Will the next Macs be more competitive as gaming computers ? Are they going to push forward for better drivers and improved performance ? Is Apple planning to be the new big player ? Now, that's what I'd like to see.

 

[darkloki]

There is this genre it's called RTS (Real Time Strategy) , it's pretty cool you should all check it out sometime

 

[Irishman]

That was an interesting post to read. I'm a veteran gamer as well, in my 38 now, and I think I'll agree with most of your post. I, too, believe that a touch device will never replace a real gaming device either this will be a PC/Mac or a gaming console. I believe that touch devices open a new market, parallel to the existing ones, for a specific target group. They do fill better some different needs (e.g. gaming on the go) so they can co-exist. I wouldn't expect touch-gaming in the near future to canibalize console/computer game sales. Totally different leagues. They seem to be killing the portable game consoles, though, judging by the low sales of PS Vita, regardless of being an exceptional piece of h/w.

On the other hand, the real competition will be between computers and consoles as they both target the same "desktop" gaming style. I think that the era of the physical medias are over (apple has also played a big part to this), hence next gen. consoles will turn towards online stores completely, just like computers do.

To be honest, I am more curious of Apple's next moves on the gaming world. Are they going to support this - at last - more seriously ? Will the next Macs be more competitive as gaming computers ? Are they going to push forward for better drivers and improved performance ? Is Apple planning to be the new big player ? Now, that's what I'd like to see.

Since we're sharing...

43 here, and I show no signs of stopping.

 

[iMacFarlane]

Myst was originally made for the Mac and it was the best selling game of all time from 1993 - 2002.

Isn't that like saying you're World Famous in Poland?

On Topic, I think there is a lot of advantage to using an established engine for development. If you've got this awesome story figured out, and a really cool play mechanic, write your game. But unless you also have a PhD in applied mathematics, game theory, A.I., physics, etc. how will your vision translate to the screen?

It's not just graphics. The Havok physics engine is startlingly powerful at giving games that infusion of reality, when things drop and bounce and roll as you would expect them to in real life. Coding that from the ground up for each new project seems wasteful . . .

Since we're sharing...

43 here, and I show no signs of stopping.

44, same!

 

[dma550]

Game focus is one thing I miss most on my move from my alienware m17x to my mbp. Yes, there's bootcamp and parallels running most things, but a standard cross platform game engine would make this all better IMO. And, as a developer, it's always less expensive to train one language or one toolset well, vs conversion efforts between the platforms.