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wegster

macrumors 6502a
Nov 1, 2006
642
298
It's funny, because due to Intel's slow updates of processors and apple's past 4 years, I've completely changed my approach to buying MacBook pros. I used to buy the latest and greatest every few years, there's no point now. When my 2013 died, I bought a 2015. ...
Future-proofing seems passé!
Not far off, IMO. The move to SSDs and the earlier SSD performance jump made more of a difference to most workflows than the relatively small performance jumps in Intel CPUs for a period of time. Going from my 2011MBP to 2015 was nowhere near the performance boost we would have expected a decade ago (granted, I put in a 1TB EVO SSD into the 2011, but still). There have been worthwhile bits, like video codec native CPU handling, etc., but overall - definitely slowing down on raw computational benefit for the same core(s), more adding cores + die shrink for power use reductions + some specializations, although AMD is becoming interesting again (and happy for them!).

Future-proofing, even back in the days where I'd be building new systems routinely, overclocking and playing with voltages, was still always limited in reality - my own definition doesn't change too much today:
Works great for what you do today and 'very soon.'
Works pretty well for what you'll be doing in a year or two.
Can manage, or be upgraded to manage -beyond the few year mark.

Since for the most part 'upgrades' are out of the picture aside from external TB3 storage and GPU, as we don't have external easily pluggable compute nodes or added RAM via bus (aside from cloud, etc.), assuming not on an every year or two upgrade cycle (not needed for many IMO), it still makes sense to at least consider where you are on the current system, where it's coming up short, with a bit of leeway as I mentioned.

Even when I was building systems ground up there were limits as there are today, although I do think the last really significant jump was to capable SSDs for a while now, followed by the horizontal scaling (adding cores) for laptop/non-server CPUs...a better bus, whether for video or memory, leading to performance improvements of note - will still catch up to us.

Unless you’re buying your first computer, there should be no rule. You should be looking at the performance constraints on your current system and starting there.

Activity Monitor is invaluable in that regard.

Why would there be no rule? So, someone knowing relatively nothing, roll the dice, instead of looking at what everyone else doing <inset activities here> is using and using that as a baseline, let the Apple 'Geniuses' sell them on <whatever> or worse, see some of the guys buying 64GB for 'bragging rights' but in reality are browser/mail/snapchat/FB/netflix 95%+ of the time?

Agree on activity monitor for someone knowing a bit more, though - in looking at how you really use your system 'right now.'

I also agree with the general sentiment of buying what fits now. But not for the same reason here. People here seem to go for bi-yearly updates. But in my experience, the machine that fits you now will just last way longer than you think it will. I'm fully into VMs for testing out multimedia networked setups in a broadcast context. I can run 3 VMs fine on my late 2013 13" MBP with 8GB RAM. Of course, those are rather small Win7 or Linux VMs with 1GB each but they get the work done. And the mac copes fine with just 5GB left doing office work, including the cpu smoking Microsoft Teams.

If it wasn't for the dGPU power consumption bug, I'd seriously consider only getting the top default sku 16" with 16GB at a €500 discount because it should be plenty for the next 5 years. Also, BTO is never discounted so an upgrade to e.g. 32GB RAM effectively costs €1000 wich is kinda crazy for 'future proofing'. Ideally, Apple launches a 13-14" with 16/512 standard config and I'll get that. I don't mind if it's June. i have time: my 'old' MBP' manages fine while running the tech of a broadcast company from home :cool:

I'd go with the machine that fits you now, in some cases with a bit of room for growth (see comments on growing file sizes, program requirements inflating, etc.) this can be true. If I didn't need > 16GB of RAM, I would have kept plugging away on my 2015MBP for another year or so.

Good point on discounts vs BTO/CTO options - never thought about that, and it seems you can get 'some' level of discounts on BTO/CTO via B&H, Adorama and the like in the US (even though they're proxy ordering to Apple in at least most of these cases), but certainly nothing like on the standard models. If those fit your needs, it's a great consideration.

I'm happy with the 16" although yes, the Radeon power consumption is annoying, mainly as it keeps the fans a notch over where they'd be otherwise, which means it's overall easier to get it into jet plane mode, but it's a very nice system. If I were not so desperate for 32GB of RAM (or if they had replaced the buttefly keyboard, added the ESC key in, etc.) I might have picked up an older model, or waited to see if the 32GB 13" 4-6 core 14" MBP came into existence. Working in tech in both sw and hardware, VMs, compilers and RTEs, DBs, etc. - I can still get ~4 pretty good years out of a system if I plan reasonably when I do buy, so yes, definitely at least double what some believe. Having said that, for some specialized usage, I can see the 2 year upgrade cycle making sense, possibly in professional video editing where time may be worth the upgrade, although I'd wonder if an eGPU might not extend the system lifecycle there as an option.
 
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MrGunnyPT

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2017
1,313
804
I also agree with the general sentiment of buying what fits now. But not for the same reason here. People here seem to go for bi-yearly updates. But in my experience, the machine that fits you now will just last way longer than you think it will. I'm fully into VMs for testing out multimedia networked setups in a broadcast context. I can run 3 VMs fine on my late 2013 13" MBP with 8GB RAM. Of course, those are rather small Win7 or Linux VMs with 1GB each but they get the work done. And the mac copes fine with just 5GB left doing office work, including the cpu smoking Microsoft Teams.

If it wasn't for the dGPU power consumption bug, I'd seriously consider only getting the top default sku 16" with 16GB at a €500 discount because it should be plenty for the next 5 years. Also, BTO is never discounted so an upgrade to e.g. 32GB RAM effectively costs €1000 wich is kinda crazy for 'future proofing'. Ideally, Apple launches a 13-14" with 16/512 standard config and I'll get that. I don't mind if it's June. i have time: my 'old' MBP' manages fine while running the tech of a broadcast company from home :cool:

I got the 16" base model.. I didn't find the i9 appealing enough for me.
 

PeterJP

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2012
1,136
896
Leuven, Belgium
If I were not so desperate for 32GB of RAM (or if they had replaced the buttefly keyboard, added the ESC key in, etc.) I might have picked up an older model, or waited to see if the 32GB 13" 4-6 core 14" MBP came into existence. Working in tech in both sw and hardware, VMs, compilers and RTEs, DBs, etc. - I can still get ~4 pretty good years out of a system if I plan reasonably when I do buy, so yes, definitely at least double what some believe. Having said that, for some specialized usage, I can see the 2 year upgrade cycle making sense, possibly in professional video editing where time may be worth the upgrade, although I'd wonder if an eGPU might not extend the system lifecycle there as an option.
I got the 16" base model.. I didn't find the i9 appealing enough for me.
I would definitely go for the 8 core model for VMing. Then again, if the 13-14" comes only in quad core, I know I'd be able to live with that, too. So the "definitely octacore" is just one of those mechanisms in my head telling me I *need* more when actually I don't.

Same for the 32GB. I'd really like to have it, but will I really need it? I guess it's a sense of freedom when I set up a Win10VM that I can give it a proper and decent 8GB instead of the 2GB I have to give it now :rolleyes: But *need*? Maybe not.

As for the 2 year upgrade cycle, yes, I can imagine some cases where it makes sense. But I know plenty of people who upgrade way too often, just like with their phones, tablets, cars, ... And then some wonder why we're not rich :cool:
 
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profcutter

macrumors 68000
Mar 28, 2019
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Right, I mean that’s the goal: a computer that’s going to last you for so many years. They’re not phones, and they’re not disposable. My university replaces my machine every 4 years if I want them to or not. I have to tell them “save your money, just put some more RAM in the trash can Mac Pro,” but they insist that everyone in the department be on the same schedule. The 2017 iMac they bought me runs like a champ, I can’t see needing a new machine next year. Maybe now that they’re in financial straits they’ll come to see the advantage of buying a nicer machine every 6 years instead of a bottom of the line Mini (which most faculty get) every 2.

Again, for laptops, as we discussed elsewhere on the forums, when is it obsolete? If it runs what you need it to run, even if it’s not the very latest tech, is it really obsolete?
 

PeterJP

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2012
1,136
896
Leuven, Belgium
Again, for laptops, as we discussed elsewhere on the forums, when is it obsolete? If it runs what you need it to run, even if it’s not the very latest tech, is it really obsolete?
Yeah, good point. The company I work for amortisized a bunch of desktop computers on 5 years, but they were el cheapos so becoming unusable now, not even 4 years on. So I'm putting SSDs in them and combining the memory of 2 into 1. My estimate is that will push their life up to at least 7 years now.

With laptops, it's a bit more precarious because you can't upgrade some of them (looking at you, Apple). Then again, now the SSD and HiDPI revolutions are over, expected lifespans should be 3-4 years at least if you don't opt for the base model. 16/256 or 16/512 will get you a long way. Of course, something new may come along and obsolete it all again, but I don't see anything on the horizon.
 

profcutter

macrumors 68000
Mar 28, 2019
1,548
1,296
Yeah, good point. The company I work for amortisized a bunch of desktop computers on 5 years, but they were el cheapos so becoming unusable now, not even 4 years on. So I'm putting SSDs in them and combining the memory of 2 into 1. My estimate is that will push their life up to at least 7 years now.

With laptops, it's a bit more precarious because you can't upgrade some of them (looking at you, Apple). Then again, now the SSD and HiDPI revolutions are over, expected lifespans should be 3-4 years at least if you don't opt for the base model. 16/256 or 16/512 will get you a long way. Of course, something new may come along and obsolete it all again, but I don't see anything on the horizon.

Well put. The hi res displays really did create a whole new computer experience, and SSDs changed the way we expect computer to react to our commands. Someday, I’m sure we’ll look back on NVME ssds like tape drives, and our current displays like amber screens, but I can’t imagine what the next major sea change will be. Until then, it doesn’t really feel like we’re seeing the kinds of computing innovations that used to be the hallmark of the industry.
 
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MrGunnyPT

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2017
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I would definitely go for the 8 core model for VMing. Then again, if the 13-14" comes only in quad core, I know I'd be able to live with that, too. So the "definitely octacore" is just one of those mechanisms in my head telling me I *need* more when actually I don't.

Same for the 32GB. I'd really like to have it, but will I really need it? I guess it's a sense of freedom when I set up a Win10VM that I can give it a proper and decent 8GB instead of the 2GB I have to give it now :rolleyes: But *need*? Maybe not.

As for the 2 year upgrade cycle, yes, I can imagine some cases where it makes sense. But I know plenty of people who upgrade way too often, just like with their phones, tablets, cars, ... And then some wonder why we're not rich :cool:

I upgrade 3 in 3 usually..

Regarding virtual machines I started using Citri with some cloud VMs on my company, reason being I wanted to work form whatever computer I had :)
 
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PeterJP

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2012
1,136
896
Leuven, Belgium
I upgrade 3 in 3 usually..

Regarding virtual machines I started using Citri with some cloud VMs on my company, reason being I wanted to work form whatever computer I had :)
I have several Proxmox machines that I can use for VMs as well, both in production as well as for testing. Also removes the dependency on the laptop hardware, like your Citrix environment. But for some situations, local VMs are just practical. They remove the dependency on another machine or a stable Internet connection ;)
 

DieBeachballDie

macrumors regular
Jan 29, 2015
132
6
I get an average of 5 years out of my iMacs. They're still working when i upgrade, just slow and emotional. I dont know what to expect out of a brand new MBP 16" i9, as i've never had a laptop, but i'm hoping its a solid 5 years productivity. Maybe i'll be richer in 3 years and i can upgrade just to keep everything snappy... we'll see. I'd go every 3 years if i had money.

Hell, i got three years out of my iPhone 5s. I only upgraded because i thought the newer models would be better. They weren't. Heh... i want my 5s back. Thinking of buying a used (BNIB) SE pretty quick, to get rid of this infuriating 6s.
 

MrGunnyPT

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2017
1,313
804
I have several Proxmox machines that I can use for VMs as well, both in production as well as for testing. Also removes the dependency on the laptop hardware, like your Citrix environment. But for some situations, local VMs are just practical. They remove the dependency on another machine or a stable Internet connection ;)

Oh definitely I'm still using VMs at home for development!
 

MacLappy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 28, 2011
530
394
Singapore
Future-proofing is the embodiment of a first-world problem.

Good to have, assuming you have money to burn, ultimately not necessary, since your probably going to upgrade, when something better comes along. 😉
 
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wegster

macrumors 6502a
Nov 1, 2006
642
298
I would definitely go for the 8 core model for VMing. Then again, if the 13-14" comes only in quad core, I know I'd be able to live with that, too. So the "definitely octacore" is just one of those mechanisms in my head telling me I *need* more when actually I don't.

Same for the 32GB. I'd really like to have it, but will I really need it? I guess it's a sense of freedom when I set up a Win10VM that I can give it a proper and decent 8GB instead of the 2GB I have to give it now :rolleyes: But *need*? Maybe not.

As for the 2 year upgrade cycle, yes, I can imagine some cases where it makes sense. But I know plenty of people who upgrade way too often, just like with their phones, tablets, cars, ... And then some wonder why we're not rich :cool:
100% on all the above agree. Just realized in what I wrote, 'double what some believe' - I meant the system's worthwhile lifecycle as in I can get ~4 years vs some upgrading every to every other year, but it does require some forethought to make sure I don't bang up against wrong choice on purchase.

And completely agree on the last line too. I'd like to think I've gotten better - no more tower/workstations, let alone ones I rebuild every couple of months, ~4 year laptop upgrade cycle (well ok, or until my wife breaks hers again for hers :( ), ~3 year phone upgrade cycles and then usually buy used/refurb, still rocking my Apple Watch Series 2 (but ok, I may get in on next release). Have also owned over 100 cars - only a single one new, and never again.

Definitely a balancing act though.
 

AVBeatMan

macrumors 603
Nov 10, 2010
5,965
3,846
I got my new 16" MacBook Pro yesterday. What's the advise re battery? I mean, you're not supposed to run it completely down are you? Is it best to keep it topped up or let it drop to say, 20% before charging?
 

profcutter

macrumors 68000
Mar 28, 2019
1,548
1,296
Definitely do not keep it at 100% all the time. You should unplug it maybe once a week, let it get down a bit, then plug it back in. Lithium Batteries hate overcharging.
 
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