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AllieNeko

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2003
1,004
57
sharing sub pixels reduces the PPI on a display which has a direct connection to accurate color representation.

From engadget

Just because Engadget wrote it does NOT make it true. PenTile is based on sound physics. Larger, brighter red and blue LEDs that dissipate heat better thus last longer and therefore maintain better uniformity between the channels.

The Galaxy SII display DOES have better color rendition than the Galaxy S display, but I can assure you that's not due to the PenTile subpixel layout on the Galaxy S. The display is just calibrated better. The Galaxy S display has incredibly blown-out reds. That's due to pushing the red channel TOO HARD. It looks "vibrant" but incredibly fake. If the PenTile RGBG layout affected color rendition, you'd get the opposite.

Like I said, let's wait until we have one of these in our hands before we judge. Color rendition isn't affected by RGBG subpixel layout. Sharpness is, but the PPI on these displays is so high I doubt it'll matter.

I believe Engadget is making their claim based on a confused understanding of the difference between PenTile's RGBG layout and their RGBW layout (which does affect color rendition, rather severely in fact). This adds a white subpixel to boost brightness, at the expense of color saturation and a smooth gamma curve. Motorola uses this layout in some of their LCDs. Single-chip "business" DLP projectors have done essentially the same thing, via a clear segment in the color wheel, for years. It boosts brightness and to some extent contrast, but it does so by sacrificing color purity.

The two systems are totally unrelated other than that Nouvoyance has patented subpixel layouts for both as "PenTile"
 

SevenInchScrew

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
539
2
Omaha
I'm not downplaying it. The OMAP4 they're using (4460) uses a SGX540MP2. While one of the latest SoCs, Apple's A5 quite handily beats it in this regard, and the A5 is already 2 quarters old.
You need to research more. There is no such GPU. The OMAP 4 uses the SGX540. You are thinking of the SGX543MP2 which is in the iPad/4S.

However, it was either that or their own Exynos SoC which uses the ARM reference design Mali-400 GPU which is even worse.
Again, you should do some more research. In most benchmarks, the Mali-400 can top pretty much all other GPUs, other than the SGX543MP2...

Es5UH.png
gmT9L.png


OJhKT.png
VeE6h.png


TXD6x.png



But again, given your huge concern with the HARDWARE of the device, you really seem to not understand what the Nexus devices are designed for. They are NOT built to be technological showcases, using cutting-edge hardware. They ARE built to primarily showcase the new version of the Android OS, while also setting a rough baseline of what Google wants in the next generation of devices. It is unreasonable to set stratospheric specifications as your baseline. Again, if you've seen the previous 2 devices (3 if you count the Xoom), you'd see this is nothing new.

Being disappointed with the hardware in this new Galaxy Nexus is due to nothing more than people's uninformed expectations being out of touch with the reality of what the device is built to do.

And yes, the camera is poor when you compare it to the iPhone 4S and the Sony Xperia Arc (which uses the same optics according to online speculation). Something else Samsung could've tapped to just get that slight extra edge.
I never said the camera was the best, but simply because there is a really good camera out there in another device does NOT then make all other cameras "Poor" by comparison. We're talking about Good (Nexus) compared to Really Good (iPhone 4S).
 

MacHamster68

macrumors 68040
Sep 17, 2009
3,251
5
You are confusing weight and mass. Mass does not change relative to gravity. Wight does.
Wight is a function of mass * gravity. On the moon your mass would be a the same but your weight would be 1/6th you weight here on earth.

yes you are right if you use the scientific use of weight , but then you need to measure in kilograms times meters per second squared or newtons and not in the Mass measurement kilograms /pounds, but most people on earth use when they want to express weight the measurement kilograms /pounds but thats scientifically wrong , but is still commonly used , you dont say my weight is xx newtons you still say my weight is xx kilograms , but by doing so you tell me your your mass and not your weight


But maybe i should have said no matter if on earth or on the pluto your Mass (which is measured in kilograms/pounds ) stays the same but your weight (measured in newtons) differs, as that would be scientifically correct
 
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KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
You need to research more. There is no such GPU. The OMAP 4 uses the SGX540. You are thinking of the SGX543MP2 which is in the iPad/4S.

You're right, the OMAP4 uses the single core SGX540, which is even worse when you think about it.

Again, you should do some more research. In most benchmarks, the Mali-400 can top pretty much all other GPUs, other than the SGX543MP2...

So fine, it makes even less sense that Samsung didn't go with their Exynos SoC then.

while also setting a rough baseline of what Google wants in the next generation of devices.

And you expect the next generation of devices to use the last generation's hardware ? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I guess I don't understand Nexus devices then. And yes, I'm a hardware spec guy.
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,252
8
Washington D.C
And you expect the next generation of devices to use the last generation's hardware ? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I guess I don't understand Nexus devices then. And yes, I'm a hardware spec guy.

While the Galaxy Nexus has some older hardware, like the GPU, but it's very much over clocked. The vast majority is all quite a bit of an upgrade.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
Clearly...

...and there is why. If after 3 or 4 of these things you STILL don't get that they aren't about the hardware, then nothing I say can help.

Well, sorry, but both the Nexus S and Nexus One were much more advanced in their days than this. It seems they compromised everything to fit in the 1280x720 display.
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
Clearly...

...and there is why. If after 3 or 4 of these things you STILL don't get that they aren't about the hardware, then nothing I say can help.

Well if they're not about hardware, and if they're not about software (since they're using Android), then what are they about? What differentiates this model from the rest? That it can be updated more than once in its lifetime? And actually on time?
 

boss.king

macrumors 603
Apr 8, 2009
6,392
7,646
Well if they're not about hardware, and if they're not about software (since they're using Android), then what are they about? What differentiates this model from the rest? That it can be updated more than once in its lifetime? And actually on time?

Bias detected.
 

SevenInchScrew

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
539
2
Omaha
Well, sorry, but both the Nexus S and Nexus One were much more advanced in their days than this. It seems they compromised everything to fit in the 1280x720 display.
Really? You think the Nexus S was more advanced? Might I remind you that this was a device that shipped with a nearly year old SoC, with it's only hardware advancement being its built-in NFC, all the while lacking HSPA+ and a removable SD card. The Nexus One, similarly, used the less-than-new Snapdragon SoC, with no other hardware highlights other than it's OLED screen (PenTile, oh no!! :rolleyes:).

This new Galaxy Nexus, on the other hand, is one of the first devices to ship with the 4460, one of the first to ship with a HD screen, still one of few to ship with NFC, and one of few to have dual-band WiFi-N. These features themselves aren't super high end, mind you, but they are still much more advanced comparatively than the previous Nexus devices.

It will certainly be eclipsed technologically by newer devices in the coming months, but like all Nexus before it, it sets a very nice benchmark.

Bias detected.
He is just a joke character on this forum, and not worth a response. The less people respond to him and quote him, the better, imo.
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,889
921
Location Location Location
I never said the camera was the best, but simply because there is a really good camera out there in another device does NOT then make all other cameras "Poor" by comparison. We're talking about Good (Nexus) compared to Really Good (iPhone 4S).
You're right. I say that about everything, but people always seem to like "extreme" opinions, like "A" is good, but "B" is bad because it's not as good as A.

There are probably a few bad things about the Samsung Galaxy II, which I happen to own. I don't know what they are, since it works so well.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
There are probably a few bad things about the Samsung Galaxy II, which I happen to own. I don't know what they are, since it works so well.

There's "good" and "bad" about everything. The iPhone 4S itself has quite a few compromises. However, the A5 is just a very strong contender in the SoC arena.

Being a bit less good that what is out there doesn't make stuff bad, it just makes it disappointing. Would it really have done any harm to throw in the Sony optics/Camera sensor from the Xperia Arc into the Galaxy Nexus ? Use a newer than 2007 GPU part in the SoC (the OMAP series of SoCs are all pretty much outdated themselves, always using 2-3 year old GPUs from PowerVR).
 

SevenInchScrew

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
539
2
Omaha
However, the A5 is just a very strong contender in the SoC arena.
Apple HAS to design their devices with much more powerful hardware than other manufacturers do. If you only ship 1 device every year or so, you need to make sure that device is very cutting-edge when it releases, so that over its lifespan the hardware will still be competitive.

On the other hand, Samsung, for example, can just continue developing hardware and releasing newer versions as they wish. They don't need to build in a years worth of advanced tech when they can just wait until the tech is more readily available, and release then. Case in point, the original Galaxy S hardware, and into the Galaxy SII....

World Galaxy S (HSPA)
US Galaxy S variants (HSPA & CDMA/WiMax)
Galaxy S 4G (HSPA+)
Nexus S (NFC)
Infuse (HSPA+ & SAMOLED+)
Droid Charge (LTE & SAMOLED+)
World Galaxy SII (dual-core & HSPA+)
US Galaxy SII variants (dual-core & HSPA+/CDMA/WiMax)
Galaxy S II (dual-core & LTE)
Galaxy Note (dual-core & HSPA+ & 5" HD screen)

In roughly the same amount of time that the iPhone 4 was Apple's single top-end offering, Samsung was able to iterate on their original Galaxy S hardware 5 times, and then evolve it into the current 4 versions of Galaxy SII hardware, adding new features along the way. So, yes, the iPhone 4S has very nice internal hardware. It needs to, since it will likely be their lone high-end offering for a year or more.
 

testcss

macrumors member
Feb 28, 2011
48
0
I'm not downplaying it. The OMAP4 they're using (4460) uses a SGX540MP2. While one of the latest SoCs, Apple's A5 quite handily beats it in this regard, and the A5 is already 2 quarters old.

However, it was either that or their own Exynos SoC which uses the ARM reference design Mali-400 GPU which is even worse. Frankly, I just think maybe the Galaxy Nexus would have at least been a chance for Samsung to showcase some upgraded GPUs, maybe at least match Apple's offering, in a new version of their Exynos SoC.

And yes, the camera is poor when you compare it to the iPhone 4S and the Sony Xperia Arc (which uses the same optics according to online speculation). Something else Samsung could've tapped to just get that slight extra edge.

It seems corners were cut in this case.

Anyway, I do like the AMOLED screens, even the pentile versions. The colors are crisp and the blacks to die for. It just seems counter-intuitive to go from SAMOLED+ to SAMOLED for a flagship model. It's too bad about those manufacturing issues.

It's not like I can switch away from iOS either way, I'm too invested in the Apple eco-system to just up and leave. With it's better GPU and camera, and the Retina display being good enough (resolution wise at 328 ppi if not having the nice colors of the OLED stuff), I'm happy with my iPhone 4S.

Unless you have insider information, the processor is the OMAP 4430 at 1.2 ghz and the gpu is single (not dual mp2) 540 at 384 mhz. This is what killed it for me. The gpu is the same as the Nexus S! The iPhone actually blows this phone out of the water in speed. But the android fans have turned full circle. Specs don't matter anymore, its all in the OS....
 

testcss

macrumors member
Feb 28, 2011
48
0
You need to research more. There is no such GPU. The OMAP 4 uses the SGX540. You are thinking of the SGX543MP2 which is in the iPad/4S.


Again, you should do some more research. In most benchmarks, the Mali-400 can top pretty much all other GPUs, other than the SGX543MP2...

Es5UH.png
gmT9L.png


OJhKT.png
VeE6h.png


TXD6x.png



But again, given your huge concern with the HARDWARE of the device, you really seem to not understand what the Nexus devices are designed for. They are NOT built to be technological showcases, using cutting-edge hardware. They ARE built to primarily showcase the new version of the Android OS, while also setting a rough baseline of what Google wants in the next generation of devices. It is unreasonable to set stratospheric specifications as your baseline. Again, if you've seen the previous 2 devices (3 if you count the Xoom), you'd see this is nothing new.

Being disappointed with the hardware in this new Galaxy Nexus is due to nothing more than people's uninformed expectations being out of touch with the reality of what the device is built to do.


I never said the camera was the best, but simply because there is a really good camera out there in another device does NOT then make all other cameras "Poor" by comparison. We're talking about Good (Nexus) compared to Really Good (iPhone 4S).

After looking at those benchmarks, the Galaxy Nexus will perform at the level of the Droid 3. Very disappointing. That makes it about half the speed of the Galaxy S 2 which is getting ICS. I am really getting sick of android hypocrisy too. Every android is screaming at the top of their lungs how much better this phone is than the iPhone. Megapixels no longer matter as much as they did when android phones had more, strong processors no longer matter, and now all of a sudden that they have a higher resolution display they will be squeaking that they have the best screen. BTW, the iPhone has same # of sub-pixels as the Nexus.

960x640x3 - 1,843,200

1280x720x2 - 1,843,200

I can't wait to hear about how the iPhone is playing catch-up and now that the Galaxy Nexus has a much better display than it really has.
 

SevenInchScrew

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
539
2
Omaha
After looking at those benchmarks, the Galaxy Nexus will perform at the level of the Droid 3. Very disappointing.
Yes, because the Droid 3 and the Galaxy Nexus use the EXACT SAME hardware, right?? :rolleyes:

Every android is screaming at the top of their lungs how much better this phone is than the iPhone.
The only people claiming ANY Nexus phone has the pinnacle of hardware specifications are simply uninformed, and ignorant to what the devices are intended to be.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Original poster
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
Unless you have insider information, the processor is the OMAP 4430 at 1.2 ghz and the gpu is single (not dual mp2) 540 at 384 mhz.

Insider information ? It's a well known fact that Samsung are using the OMAP 4460 in the Galaxy Nexus. The OMAP 4430 has a SGX540 clocked at 304 mhz, not 384.
 

MacHamster68

macrumors 68040
Sep 17, 2009
3,251
5
dont care about really .
I stick with my HTC wildfire
htc_wildfire_wight.jpg

i love the scroll button , eventually if it dies in a couple years, then i will see what's available then , as long as i can make phone calls and send the odd text and email on a phone ,
and eventually once in a while for browsing if i dont have access to a computer and need urgent internet access its allright

on the HTC wildfire display and performance are good enough for a PHONE , most important it costs nearly a 3rd of a iPhone 3GS or the Samsung Nexus and in terms of quality and performance it does not need to hide behind a iPhone 3 GS or Nexus .
Always keeping the saving in mind ;) which equal in about half the cost of a Mac mini or a complete atom powered windows7 netbook , both beat those phones in performance anyway :p
 
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epicfailguy2

macrumors newbie
Oct 24, 2011
18
0
I believe the hype has just blown out of proportion people's expectations, "the iphone 4s was dissapointing, the galaxy nexus was dissapointing."

Let me tell you they arn't dissapointing at all in fact.
Right it's not your 4" 1080p 3ghz quad core superphone ;) but they are still running specs that are like what ? Three times over the top than what it takes to run the OS or the games (iphone 4 SGX games included...)
Even the overclocked SGX540 will still run the lastest releases of gameloft 3d games in a year or two... Who the hell cares since we now change devices every year or so. Right the iphone 4s with its oversized GPU will run one or two epic game engine that are impressive, but what's the use of it ? Two games a year ? Seriously ? Not to mention the battery drain that such oversized gpu implies.

On the cpu department the TI omap has a dual channel memory architecture that makes it superior to both A5 and Exynos, only on CPU side ! I'll also mention that it can run up to 700mhz faster than the A5... if you clock it at it's factory setting of 1,5ghz instead of google's underclocked 1,2 ghz. Recent java spider benchmark flashed the nexus prime at 1900 (iphone 4s did 2200). Even though a lot of that improvement over the SGS2 (3000ish score) can be granted to ICS optimisations of dual core management.

Now on pentile display, it is just shocking to hear people say it is a downgrade from the galaxy S2 samoled+, simply astonishing that "bad, and ignorant" media coverage by lets say engadget for example, infused such false ideas into people's minds and that no one is even confronting it with real scientific logic.
720p Samoled pentile is in all aspects superior to 800*480 samoled +
You get one less subpixel per pixel, right, but it still doesn't mean that the real resolution displayed to the eye is not 720p, the whole point of pentile being that it shares a subpixel but yet stills create an information grid that is 720*1280 large, and this is what you expect for BETTER & ENHANCED browsing experience. I wouldn't spit either on the nexus S camera sensor, even if it is 5MP, know that 5MP at equal sensor size is superior to a 8MP simply because it has more surface per sensor thus more light sensitivity. I wouldn't be surprised if in further investigations it actually beats the iphone 4s optical trick at low light video or photography.

Other than that, pentile has its drawbacks which are the shizzeled red effect on lines, but that effect is only visible to a few people and at low resolutions, at 720p ? Frankly, unless you're using a microscope that drawback is totally non existant.

Over what everybody seems to ignore : let's come to power consumption, thanks to it's pentile arrangement, and sharing of subpixels, pentile samoled is simply put : 50% more energy efficient than RGB samoled plus. 50%
And as exposed previously, pentile samoled age better than RGB amoleds.

images

Galaxy S2 (3 dedicated subpixels per pixel)= 1,152k subpixels => 267.906 subpixels per diagonal inch
Nexus Prime (2 dedicated subpixels per pixel) = 1,843k subpixels => 400.695 subpixels per diagonal inch
Iphone 4s (3 dedicated...) = 1,843k subpixels => 526.00 subpixels per diagonal inch

Those numbers doesn't account for the shared subpixel of the pentile yet they are still a huge improvement. And what does the Nexus has over the iphone 4 retina ? Well, larger screen, larger resolution thus easier browsing, more information on screen at a time, and an actual ppi that is IF pentile at this resolution makes for a perfect optical effect, which from the review of the screen impressions is granted, similar to the retina's one.
That + pentiles benefits on battery life & screen lifetime.

At some point you may ask yourself in all honesty...
Do you want a phone that runs it's OS smoothly and a stunning information sharing interface ("everything is about the screen" they said righteously) or do you want a phone that runs Crysis 2 like games for about 3 hours per year ?
 
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