Game of Thrones (HBO)

[td1439]

Ugh, I'm really not liking what they are doing with the High Sparrow and the way the Warrior's Sons are these mindless zealots.

Also, bets on who murders Ramsay first: Sansa or Theon?

 

[Huntn]

Ugh, I'm really not liking what they are doing with the High Sparrow and the way the Warrior's Sons are these mindless zealots.

Also, bets on who murders Ramsay first: Sansa or Theon?

Granted, I'm midway through Feast of Crows, but allowing the sparrows control of religious justice in Kings Landing while the King sits by bowing to their control is frankly mind blowing. My wife has read all the books and I'm facing a insurrection about these shows with her. She is ready to quit the show. I don't understand if they are going this way, why not let the High Septon perform these duties?

 

[benthewraith]

Ugh, I'm really not liking what they are doing with the High Sparrow and the way the Warrior's Sons are these mindless zealots.

Also, bets on who murders Ramsay first: Sansa or Theon?

Jon Snow will rain fire and blood upon the Boltons.

 

[AlliFlowers]

My thoughts precisely! I figured they would cut out a lot of Arya's transformation, but it's like they allowed her to give the deathly water to the little girl last night without first showing Arya's initial reaction to killing the people who come to them for help. That's a huge part of her storyline.

WTF with the Sansa storyline, too. In the book, they took Sansa's childhood friend and sent her to Winterfell to marry Bolton.

Jaime and Bron going to rescue the daughter?

They've already changed so much from the books that it no longer matters what happened. And we know it will be at least another 2 years before Martin comes close to finishing the next two in the series.

*** book 5 spoilers ***





The episode last week commited to several more big changes. I can see now that Tyrion's story line was simply purged of extras to simplify it, but he is likely arriving at the same place. The death of Bariston totally shocked me, as he plays a huge role in the end of B5! I am assuming they are making way for the Bear to reunite with Dany as her main right-hand-man, which has not happened in the books, and they did this once again to simplify. Dany's story is skipping over so much that I feel like the sequence of events doesn't really make sense, but whatever. Then the Sansa storyline... Another hard curve into left field. How this has anything to do with the book events, I can't say. Why would Wreak need to save her now? What the hell is going on with the maiden of Tarth? It seems like those storylines from the book are getting a total rewrite. And the the Dorne story is so thinned it seems like a sideshow... Nothing about the race to befriend Dany, or the plots for revenge... It just looks like a couple angry girls on their own.

 

[Huntn]

Although I think the show is excellent, comparing the show to the books is like watching an outlined, heavily condensed version of the story. I recognized this way back in Season 2. I maintain they have a limited budget for actors, and have to keep those actors busy, although they may have let Bran go.

 

[zmunkz]

Although I think the show is excellent, comparing the show to the books is like watching an outlined, heavily condensed version of the story. I recognized this way back in Season 2. I maintain they have a limited budget for actors, and have to keep those actors busy, although they may have let Bran go.

I wonder how much of what we are seeing now ... Specifically little finger back in the capital ... Is spoilers from later in the books, or is just totally rewritten and has nothing to do with the books.

 

[Huntn]

I wonder how much of what we are seeing now ... Specifically little finger back in the capital ... Is spoilers from later in the books, or is just totally rewritten and has nothing to do with the books.

No clue. I'm a little over halfway in Feast of Crows (not that I'm a slow reader, just not devoting a lot of time to reading in general).

Feast of Crows Spoilers
Latest reading progress half way through:
1. Brienne in her quest to find Sansa, has discovered that The Hound is dead, and that the girl with him was Ayra, not Sansa as she previously believed and that The Hound is dead, buried by the Elder Brother.
2. Cercei wanted Bronn to have an unfortunate hunting accident, but instead was challenged to single combat by Balman Stokeworth who died trying. Sparrows present in Kings Landing. High Septon given permission to take up arms in the name of The Seven.
3. Samwell Tarley is on his way to become a Meister in Old Town, but is currently stuck in Bravos.
4. Jaime is headed to the Vale to see to Besieging of Riverrun.
5. Ayra is hanging out in the House of Black and White.
6. The Ironborne are causing havoc in The Reach.
7. Sansa is hanging out at the Eyrie under the alias of Alayne with Little Finger.
8. Tyrion is in a boat I assume heading to Bravos. Have not seen him in a while.

 

[td1439]

I wonder how much of what we are seeing now ... Specifically little finger back in the capital ... Is spoilers from later in the books, or is just totally rewritten and has nothing to do with the books.

I think it's totally rewritten. At this point, only the most general and important plot lines remain. Otherwise, it's a different story with the same characters. If GRRM could write at something better than a glacial pace, I'd appreciate the differences, but we're just stuck wondering how the books will resolve these stories for a long time after the show is over.

----------

Granted, I'm midway through Feast of Crows, but allowing the sparrows control of religious justice in Kings Landing while the King sits by bowing to their control is frankly mind blowing. My wife has read all the books and I'm facing a insurrection about these shows with her. She is ready to quit the show. I don't understand if they are going this way, why not let the High Septon perform these duties?

Yeah, in the books the High Septon is actually who he seems to be: someone genuinely interested in being humble, helping the poor, and defending septons and septas outside of King's Landing. This whole power-hungry, McCarthy-esque side isn't at all present. I also can't see Cersei abdicating that much power just to get at Margaery. She's much more direct in the books.

 

[JoshMKB24]

So one thing I saw last night was a lot of people getting bent out of shape with the Sansa rape scene. I mean rape is horrific, but its not like that was the worst thing they've ever done on that show and probably isn't the end of them doing horrible things to people. I thought HBO got across what they needed to get across without going too over the top. In the books, isn't the fake Arya in this case, forced to also do stuff with Theon as well? It seems like the people complaining about last night who also read the books seem to forget that part.

 

[Tsuchiya]

So one thing I saw last night was a lot of people getting bent out of shape with the Sansa rape scene. I mean rape is horrific, but its not like that was the worst thing they've ever done on that show and probably isn't the end of them doing horrible things to people. I thought HBO got across what they needed to get across without going too over the top. In the books, isn't the fake Arya in this case, forced to also do stuff with Theon as well? It seems like the people complaining about last night who also read the books seem to forget that part.

It was an unnecessary plot device, and was wrong on so many levels. I don't care about deviations from the book, but the way I see it, they used her rape to achieve one of the following:

1) Firmly establish what a crappy person Ramsay is (seems they needed an obvious Joffrey replacement), which would be completely redundant considering his history.

2) Use it as a breaking point for Sansa who will take steps to achieve power and reclaim her home.

3) Focus on how this effects Theon, and how it finally snaps him out of his "Reek" character so he can "save" the girl.

Anything other than option 2 (which still doesn't mean this scene was necessary), then they've completely ******* on Sansa as a character.

 

[mdawid]

Also, bets on who murders Ramsay first: Sansa or Theon?[/QUOTE]

I really thought Theon was going to jump in take out Ramsay.

 

[JoshMKB24]

It was an unnecessary plot device, and was wrong on so many levels. I don't care about deviations from the book, but the way I see it, they used her rape to achieve one of the following:

1) Firmly establish what a crappy person Ramsay is (seems they needed an obvious Joffrey replacement), which would be completely redundant considering his history.

2) Use it as a breaking point for Sansa who will take steps to achieve power and reclaim her home.

3) Focus on how this effects Theon, and how it finally snaps him out of his "Reek" character so he can "save" the girl.

Anything other than option 2 (which still doesn't mean this scene was necessary), then they've completely ******* on Sansa as a character.

If they go with option 1, then it was completely unnecessary I will agree..........I mean I think we established a long time ago that the guy is sick and just his overall demeanor reminds us every scene that he is a horrible person. I mean rape is obviously a horrible thing, but of all the other horrible things that have happened to people and even other rapes in the show. This one to me didn't feel any more necessary or unnecessary. Sure it was uncomfortable and if it wasn't then you might want to re-evaluate your stance on life, I guess I was just surprised that THIS was the point a lot people said they pushed it too far after everything else that has happened.


****Spoiler****




I mean they've deviated pretty far, but IIRC the books go with option 3 right? Even though its fake Arya in the books and not Sansa, I am pretty sure this is the point where Reek starts to come back around. Since they are changing stuff and also adding stuff from the books at different points in the time line I don't know how they use it, however I do hope there is a reason and a combo of 2 and 3 I think would work out alright.

 

[benthewraith]

****Spoiler****




I mean they've deviated pretty far, but IIRC the books go with option 3 right? Even though its fake Arya in the books and not Sansa, I am pretty sure this is the point where Reek starts to come back around. Since they are changing stuff and also adding stuff from the books at different points in the time line I don't know how they use it, however I do hope there is a reason and a combo of 2 and 3 I think would work out alright.

Option 3 eventually leads to the Pink Letter, so the consequences of what Ramsay did are very important in terms of the plot.

 

[Huntn]

If the wedding nuptials are taken in context, my impression is this was the reality of arranged marriages in mideavel times. Wives were expected to submit, so IMO, the modern context of rape does not really apply. Although this is an alternate setting, it takes many of its cues from Merry Old England.

I'm wondering how this change in the plot varies from the book and Sansa hoping to reclaim the North, or some part of the North in her familly's name.

 

[JoshMKB24]

If the wedding nuptials are taken in context, my impression is this was the reality of arranged marriages in mideavel times. Wives were expected to submit, so IMO, the modern context of rape does not really apply. Although this is an alternate setting, it takes many of its cues from Merry Old England.

I'm wondering how this change in the plot varies from the book and Sansa hoping to reclaim the North, or some part of the North in her familly's name.

In the book its a fake girl who is posing as Arya. Sansa is still off in the Vale chilling. I agree on your statement above, and while I thought the scene was a bit unnecessary it wasn't as offensive as a lot of people are making it out to be.

----------

Option 3 eventually leads to the Pink Letter, so the consequences of what Ramsay did are very important in terms of the plot.

I haven't actually read the books, just after season 1 I read the wikipedia summary on all the books so maybe my information is a bit off haha. In the books though isn't the pink letter alluding to Snow having sent Mance and a few others South to Winterfell? In the show Mance is dead, so I'm not quite sure how that would work. I could be way off base though, because I didn't read the books.

 

[benthewraith]

I haven't actually read the books, just after season 1 I read the wikipedia summary on all the books so maybe my information is a bit off haha. In the books though isn't the pink letter alluding to Snow having sent Mance and a few others South to Winterfell? In the show Mance is dead, so I'm not quite sure how that would work. I could be way off base though, because I didn't read the books.

There's more to the Pink Letter than sending Mance. It's actually the last part of the letter that this particular issue covers. He makes a list of demands of Jon Snow.

 

[JoshMKB24]

There's more to the Pink Letter than sending Mance. It's actually the last part of the letter that this particular issue covers. He makes a list of demands of Jon Snow.

Yeah, returning Theon/Reek, his wife, Stannis' daughter and the red priestess right? So you think they're gonna skip the part of Jon sending someone to Winterfell and just have Reek/Sansa escape and then Ramsay sending the letter to the wall?

 

[malman89]

It was an unnecessary plot device, and was wrong on so many levels. I don't care about deviations from the book, but the way I see it, they used her rape to achieve one of the following:

1) Firmly establish what a crappy person Ramsay is (seems they needed an obvious Joffrey replacement), which would be completely redundant considering his history.

2) Use it as a breaking point for Sansa who will take steps to achieve power and reclaim her home.

3) Focus on how this effects Theon, and how it finally snaps him out of his "Reek" character so he can "save" the girl.

Anything other than option 2 (which still doesn't mean this scene was necessary), then they've completely ******* on Sansa as a character.

I'm going with part 1, part 3. 1 just to re-establish that he is in fact a terrible person and marriage won't change him. 3 seems like a potential story line.

2 doesn't seem like that at all. You saw how she treated that stupid girl who was trying to scare her. Sansa is all grown up now.

Overall, I kind of gave up giving a damn with the inconsistencies and changes from the books to the show during that mess of season 2. There's so many other better things to waste time worrying about.

 

[Bug-Creator]

I remember seeing the Lord of the ring movies a few years after reading the book and I just can't tell you how boring those movies were (well only watched the 1st in a cinema, waited for 2 and 3 to appear on free TV).

Watching the Hobbit movies was much more enjoyable just because they did to some extent tell a different story (the fact that there was more years between watching and reading the book may also have helped).

Haven't read any of these books, but if I ever come around it I will enjoy that alternate version of the real "Thrones" as seen on TV

 

[Huntn]

My wife says that they are now showing stuff from the last published Fire and Ice book. What the heck? Is this a means of reaching some point in the next and last season so they can transistion to movies?

 

[benthewraith]

My wife says that they are now showing stuff from the last published Fire and Ice book. What the heck? Is this a means of reaching some point in the next and last season so they can transistion to movies?

There's still two books he hasn't written: Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring (originally Coming of Wolves).

 

[malman89]

My wife says that they are now showing stuff from the last published Fire and Ice book. What the heck? Is this a means of reaching some point in the next and last season so they can transistion to movies?

Maybe my memory is foggy, but I believe in the last book, Tyrion hasn't even reached Daenerys, so they are cutting through a lot of the fat and long, descriptive, uneventful chapters and just covering the meaty stuff. That's probably what I enjoy the most about them deviating from the books - the last two/last book in particular was such a grind to get through. The shows are skipping so much of that nonsense.

I'm super excited to see how the Tyrion/Daenerys dynamic plays out. The show also strung out the Cersei/High Sparrow thing for quite a long time. I was wondering when she was finally going to get her due just like in the books.

 

[Huntn]

There's still two books he hasn't written: Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring (originally Coming of Wolves).

I know. The show is still rapidly eating through published content.

Maybe my memory is foggy, but I believe in the last book, Tyrion hasn't even reached Daenerys, so they are cutting through a lot of the fat and long, descriptive, uneventful chapters and just covering the meaty stuff. That's probably what I enjoy the most about them deviating from the books - the last two/last book in particular was such a grind to get through. The shows are skipping so much of that nonsense.

I'm super excited to see how the Tyrion/Daenerys dynamic plays out. The show also strung out the Cersei/High Sparrow thing for quite a long time. I was wondering when she was finally going to get her due just like in the books.

I'm enjoying my slow but steady reading of Feast For Crows, but do desire that the pace be picked up. What's annoying me in the show is Cercei basically handing the keys of King's Landing over to the Sparrows to get at Maegery Tyrell and have her locked up. Does anything like this happen in the book? It's hard to imagine a daughter of Tywin Lannester so willing to relinquish her grip on power.

 

[benthewraith]

I'm enjoying my slow but steady reading of Feast For Crows, but do desire that the pace be picked up. What's annoying me in the show is Cercei basically handing the keys of King's Landing over to the Sparrows to get at Maegery Tyrell and have her locked up. Does anything like this happen in the book? It's hard to imagine a daughter of Tywin Lannester so willing to relinquish her grip on power.

Cersei is incredibly short-sighted, vain and absolutely *******. Both her brothers in the novels know by the End of Dance that she is cray. Yes, Cersei was that stupid in the books.

 

[JoshMKB24]

I know. The show is still rapidly eating through published content.



I'm enjoying my slow but steady reading of Feast For Crows, but do desire that the pace be picked up. What's annoying me in the show is Cercei basically handing the keys of King's Landing over to the Sparrows to get at Maegery Tyrell and have her locked up. Does anything like this happen in the book? It's hard to imagine a daughter of Tywin Lannester so willing to relinquish her grip on power.

Only big difference is in the book she accuses Maegery of adultury and the investigation into that reveals more about Cersei's kids/past than anything.

I love Cersei, she is easily 1 of my favorite characters and I like Lena Headey

----------

Cersei is incredibly short-sighted, vain and absolutely *******. Both her brothers in the novels know by the End of Dance that she is cray. Yes, Cersei was that stupid in the books.

Wasn't it also about her settling the crown's debt to them she militarizes them? Again, just as short sighted as she was only seeing the short game of no debt, but not the long game of these crazy religious fanatics now having military force.