Gaming on M395X: I'm satisfied

[cynics]

It does strike me as laughable that you can pay upwards of £2000 for a mac and Apple can't even give you a GPU better than something you could buy off amazon for £80

What does that mean?

On Amazon a 5k monitor is 1599.00 usd and Intel 6500 (Skylake i5 3.2ghz) is 209.95 usd. Those mere two components are over 1800 dollars which is almost the cost of the base model iMac they come in....

 

[jmpage2]

What does that mean?

On Amazon a 5k monitor is 1599.00 usd and Intel 6500 (Skylake i5 3.2ghz) is 209.95 usd. Those mere two components are over 1800 dollars which is almost the cost of the base model iMac they come in....

The equipment on Amazon is modular and user replaceable. Other than RAM nothing on the iMac is user upgrade able.

The iMac offers decent value compared to other all-in-ones and has far better resale value. For me that is a decent trade off to the limitations. I had gaming PCs and was always chasing performance on each new set of games. Never ending cycle of upgrades and old parts only a year or two old worth pennies on the dollar. Constantly dealing with broken drivers, patches, registry tweaks.

I have a PS4 for gaming and when 4K gaming takes off in another 3-4 years they will have a PS5. It always works and if there are problems everyone has them so patches arrive pretty quickly. I used to miss playing with a kb/mouse but am no longer bothered about using the controller.

I no longer game on my Mac but do appreciate the best performance I can get, it really helps out with photo work, video processing, etc.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It does strike me as laughable that you can pay upwards of £2000 for a mac and Apple can't even give you a GPU better than something you could buy off amazon for £80

It's so frustrating...

Wish we could get a thicker "iMac Pro" that had a legit top of the line desktop GPU in there...

[doublepost=1455339376][/doublepost]

What does that mean?

On Amazon a 5k monitor is 1599.00 usd and Intel 6500 (Skylake i5 3.2ghz) is 209.95 usd. Those mere two components are over 1800 dollars which is almost the cost of the base model iMac they come in....

He said "GPU"

 

[Adam552]

That's great but let me know how things are going when that system is two years old and you are trying to run The Witcher 4 or The Elder Scrolls VI or Fallout 5, etc.

Your post completely ignores my point which was about longevity. You are telling me stuff about a 2015 system playing 2015 games.

I managed on my current iMac for 3 years (the one with the 680MX), and it's been doing me good until now, some recent games it's starting to struggle with. So yes, I'd say I'm waiting for a new one now because it isn't powerful enough for me anymore.

The only good thing is that I can still sell it for like £1000 which is like half the price of a new BTO one (when I'm using 15% student discount). So in the end it isn't that bad. I've had gaming rigs but they seem to lose value much faster, their longevity is longer yes but you end up having to upgrade most of the components and the old ones don't sell for much. So I wouldn't say an iMac is too bad.

 

[cynics]

It's so frustrating...

Wish we could get a thicker "iMac Pro" that had a legit top of the line desktop GPU in there...

[doublepost=1455339376][/doublepost]

He said "GPU"

I know....

That doesn't detract from the price of something on Amazon being completely and totally irrelevant which is obviously my point.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I know....

That doesn't detract from the price of something on Amazon being completely and totally irrelevant which is obviously my point.

Ultimately, a wildly expensive all in one computer should really have a better GPU (Especially with that screen), at least as an option.

People say "don't use online pricing to assess value"...and those exact same people turn around and talk about the online costs of the Dell or HP 5k monitors to justify the iMac pricing.

We have no idea what apple pays for components but it's a LOT less for that screen than retail I'm positive. They like to keep 30-40% margins. They aren't "giving you a free computer" with that screen, guaranteed. The GPU is clearly an area they massively cut costs.

 

[cynics]

Ultimately, a wildly expensive all in one computer should really have a better GPU (Especially with that screen), at least as an option.

People say "don't use online pricing to assess value"...and those exact same people turn around and talk about the online costs of the Dell or HP 5k monitors to justify the iMac pricing.

We have no idea what apple pays for components but it's a LOT less for that screen than retail I'm positive. They like to keep 30-40% margins. They aren't "giving you a free computer" with that screen, guaranteed. The GPU is clearly an area they massively cut costs.

It has an m395x option. I guess it could have a 980m option but what else do you expect to be in an AIO? A Titan X? It's unreasonable to think an iMac would include any non mobile options. Especially at its price which is relatively cheap....

You can get this instead..

It has a 980m with a 27" 1080p touch screen for a mere 2700 dollars.

Obviously building or buying anything with a 5k screen is completely out of the question because it will be much more expensive than an iMac.

What do you think would be reasonable?

 

[turbineseaplane]

It has an m395x option. I guess it could have a 980m option but what else do you expect to be in an AIO? A Titan X? It's unreasonable to think an iMac would include any non mobile options. Especially at its price which is relatively cheap....

You can get this instead..

It has a 980m with a 27" 1080p touch screen for a mere 2700 dollars.

Obviously building or buying anything with a 5k screen is completely out of the question because it will be much more expensive than an iMac.

What do you think would be reasonable?

Many of us have long wished for an iMac Pro. Non mobile GPU's are only an issue due to the totally ridiculous obsession with super thin....especially silly on a desktop computer.

That said, my main wish is for a return to NVIDIA actually.

Maybe one day...

 

[cynics]

Many of us have long wished for an iMac Pro. Non mobile GPU's are only an issue due to the totally ridiculous obsession with super thin....especially silly on a desktop computer.

That said, my main wish is for a return to NVIDIA actually.

Maybe one day...

There are actually quite a few reasons there is a mobile GPU used or are you being sarcastic?

 

[turbineseaplane]

There are actually quite a few reasons there is a mobile GPU used or are you being sarcastic?

Honestly not even remotely interested in debating with you about it.

They could do a non mobile GPU just fine. It would simply require approaching the problem differently than Apple is doing. Thus the frustration of many.

 

[cynics]

Honestly not even remotely interested in debating with you about it.

They could do a non mobile GPU just fine. It would simply require approaching the problem differently than Apple is doing. Thus the frustration of many.

I completely agree, debating this would be really dumb.

Obviously they COULD use a non mobile GPU but at what expense? Price, heat, power usage, size, noise, etc etc..and for what benefit? Better gaming performance? Lol

See what I did there?

 

[turbineseaplane]

I completely agree, debating this would be really dumb.

Best thing you said right here...
Cheers

 

[ninja2000]

I don't understand all the hate for the iMac graphics card. Firstly if someone is after a graphics monster, build a PC! This has always been the case and probably always will be.
Secondly look at all the other AIO PCs on the market, name me another with a decent gfx card? (most will use a mid range at best, Dell were 750m, asus 960m etc). I believe there was one AIO machine at CES that had a PCI-e slot for a graphics card but the machine was a monstrosity.

I have always kept a gaming machine and an iMac, the iMac as OSX is amazing for my daily work. Recently I am finding less and less time to game so it felt pointless having the gaming machine sat around doing nothing. Firstly my thought was to build one decent machine to work and game from, I tried this for a month and gave up. The biggest issues were:
The screen was never as good as the 5k iMac (I went through 6 different screens in the process)
I missed not having the decent built in speakers and mic for when my headset wasn't plugged in
I could never get the machine as quiet as the iMac even with water cooling (it was an ITX I am sure I could have made a quieter ATX but I hate large PC cases)
I really missed OSX (I still had a MBP but use my main machine for blender/unity/VMs)

Finally I cracked and ordered a 2015 with 395x and 512gb ssd and it was the best decision I have made. Yes I understand the gaming performance isn't as good as a GTX980 but it plays everything I own at 1440p at high settings. If when a game comes out I can't play with at least 1080p medium settings I will re-assess. No doubt there will be a new iMac by then with the new range of AMD cards and I will sell this and buy the new one.

 

[Sakurambo-kun]

I use my 5K iMac (which is just a month or so old) to game on and I find the performance to be pretty weak to be honest. With a screen this good it's difficult to look at anything lower than 1440p, and sustaining 60fps at that resolution is a real struggle.

Of the games I've tried lately, XCOM 2 is a joke in terms of performance, usually running at around 25fps with lots of things turned off or down to medium. Firewatch runs at 30-60fps, generally around 40fps. Alien Isolation runs at around 40fps, and Trine 3 at 50-60fps. Other than simple indie games like This War of Mine or Hotline Miami 2 I haven't found anything than can sustain 60fps at 1440p.

I wish Apple had an option for a high end desktop GPU in these machines. Make it thicker, I don't care, I have the desk space. Add a BTO option of a Titan, I'd pay for it.

 

[ninja2000]

I use my 5K iMac (which is just a month or so old) to game on and I find the performance to be pretty weak to be honest. With a screen this good it's difficult to look at anything lower than 1440p, and sustaining 60fps at that resolution is a real struggle.

Of the games I've tried lately, XCOM 2 is a joke in terms of performance, usually running at around 25fps with lots of things turned off or down to medium. Firewatch runs at 30-60fps, generally around 40fps. Alien Isolation runs at around 40fps, and Trine 3 at 50-60fps. Other than simple indie games like This War of Mine or Hotline Miami 2 I haven't found anything than can sustain 60fps at 1440p.

I wish Apple had an option for a high end desktop GPU in these machines. Make it thicker, I don't care, I have the desk space. Add a BTO option of a Titan, I'd pay for it.

Are you gaming in OSX or Bootcamp?

I am playing BF4 at 1440p high settings at 60fps, that is probably the most demanding game I am playing ATM as I mostly play strategy.

I understand people would like a high end GPU option, but it will never happen in an iMac. The amount of heat a high end gfx card kicks out is huge and they are not going to invest in a cooling solution for it for a small percentage of their market share. They never want to try and compete with Alienware/razer, it just isn't their market.

I think your only hope if you want an iMac with high end graphics is to hope thunderbolt 3 external GPUs take off

 

[Sakurambo-kun]

Are you gaming in OSX or Bootcamp?

I am playing BF4 at 1440p high settings at 60fps, that is probably the most demanding game I am playing ATM as I mostly play strategy.

I understand people would like a high end GPU option, but it will never happen in an iMac. The amount of heat a high end gfx card kicks out is huge and they are not going to invest in a cooling solution for it for a small percentage of their market share. They never want to try and compete with Alienware/razer, it just isn't their market.

I think your only hope if you want an iMac with high end graphics is to hope thunderbolt 3 external GPUs take off

I've tried some bootcamp gaming and it was indeed faster, but its a hassle to boot up into Windows and I lose the SSD. Sadly my Windows partition mysteriously died so I just deleted it. Maybe I'll make another one, but I shouldn't really have to.

Maybe Metal will make a difference. Firewatch is being updated to Metal soon, so it will be interesting to compare it to the current OpenGL version.

 

[mjohansen]

I've tried some bootcamp gaming and it was indeed faster, but its a hassle to boot up into Windows and I lose the SSD. Sadly my Windows partition mysteriously died so I just deleted it. Maybe I'll make another one, but I shouldn't really have to.

Maybe Metal will make a difference. Firewatch is being updated to Metal soon, so it will be interesting to compare it to the current OpenGL version.

For me its worth the hassle to boot up into Windows as the performance is significantly better. But I have the 512 GB SSD so I do not lose the fast speed from the SSD.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I don't understand all the hate for the iMac graphics card. Firstly if someone is after a graphics monster, build a PC!

We would love to be able to have top end gaming performance and a legit Mac in one machine.

It's not that hard to understand is it?

 

[h9826790]

I completely agree, debating this would be really dumb.

Obviously they COULD use a non mobile GPU but at what expense? Price, heat, power usage, size, noise, etc etc..and for what benefit? Better gaming performance? Lol

See what I did there?

The 980 (non mobile version) is already using in some notebook. If a notebook can use it, I can't see an iMac (a desktop) will have any heat, size, noise, etc issue. Price? Is that an issue in the Mac world?

For want benefit apart from gaming? Better CUDA performance, is this count?

 

[Barbados]

Hello all,

many of you lurk around lusting over benchmarks and data not even half of us fully understand. So I did what every sane person should do: Install everything and actually use the thing as we want it to use. So what did I find out?

I come from an iMac 2012 with GT 650M, which wasn't exactly a slouch before. It just so happened in 2015 that I grew weary of the small display and the HDD, but for my gaming needs the 650M was good enough under Bootcamp (Divinity: Original Sin at 30 FPS, Diablo III between 50-60 FPS, and so on).

So now that I finally got the machine, everything is running fine (everything stank: Time Machine, Boot Camp, but here I am!) and here's what I got with Bootcamp and Win 10:

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning runs at 60 fps at 1440p, max detail. (5K around 30-40 fps)
World of Warcraft runs at 60 fps at 1440p, max detail (5K around 20-40, depends on area)
Neverwinter Nights 2 runs at 60 fps at 1440p, max detail (5K around 30)
Heroes of the Storm runs at 60 fps at 1440p, max detail (5K around 30)
League of Legends runs at 60 fps at 5K, very high detail (yes)
Diablo III runs at 60 fps at 1440p, and if you're dropping shadows you can get way above 30 fps on 5K too.

I really was worried when I read all those definitive ultimative comprehended benchmark threads, where almost anyone must go away pretty disappointed because there wasn't a big jump over the M295X. But when you're actually gaming quite a bit and don't have to max everything out, even 5K gaming is possible. I love having VSync on and enjoy a buttery experience, and I don't have to check every box with 8xAA and so on.

My girlfriend, for one, claims she doesn't see a difference between 30 and 60 fps (I guess she doesn't care), and she almost always goes straight for 5K. The lack of support for 5K resolution almost always results in hilariously small user interfaces, so I'd recommend playing at 1440p nonetheless and with 2x antialiasing at max anyway. The iMac really is silent while you're playing, at least my i5/M395X/512 device.

Just wanted to let you (and possible buyers) know that there's nothing to worry about with this new machine. And please don't respond here because you want benchmarks - you can help yourself with all the other threads

 

[ninja2000]

We would love to be able to have top end gaming performance and a legit Mac in one machine.

It's not that hard to understand is it?

It is also not that hard to understand that the iMac was never designed for that by apple. If any machine was it was the Mac Pro but I guess due to poor sales they have never refreshed it.

You also need to understand that you are a small market compared to the mass market Apple appeals to.
Would I love a GTX 980 in an iMac? sure. Is it likely to happen? not a chance.
As I said earlier you need to hope for a thunderbolt 3 egpu in a future model or that the new AMD Polaris are really as good as they are hyping it up to be and that apple decide to put a decent version in the iMac

 

[Trahearne]

Ultimately, a wildly expensive all in one computer should really have a better GPU (Especially with that screen), at least as an option.

IMO it is likely due to the lower tolerance of AIO in fan noise level, as compared to your towers beneath your desk. If you cannot ramp the fan speed up due to a cap in noise level, your thermal dissipation capacity would be capped too and by so you cannot pack too enthusiastic class stuff into the package.

 

[cynics]

Edit
[doublepost=1455544209][/doublepost]

The 980 (non mobile version) is already using in some notebook. If a notebook can use it, I can't see an iMac (a desktop) will have any heat, size, noise, etc issue. Price? Is that an issue in the Mac world?

For want benefit apart from gaming? Better CUDA performance, is this count?

Which laptops are you referring too? Gaming laptops? I guess more specifically which don't suffer from excessive heat, excessive noise, isn't HUGE (for a laptop) with a very large price tag?

Sure better CUDA performance counts. Apple even makes a machine specifically for someone interested in that stuff. I'll warn you though, it's larger, noisier, and MUCH more expensive.

I get what people are on about. I want a better iMac too but I feel it's just a little unrealistic. And if it's for gaming (not saying it is but if it is) you are already starting off with a handicap with OS X. Apple craming 2x Titan X in SLI into an iMac still won't bring the devs.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It is also not that hard to understand that the iMac was never designed for that by apple.

As was stated above, there are laptops out with much more GPU capability than $4,000 iMac's.

Let's stop making excuses for Apple.

The lower spec GPU's are somewhat about design (which Apple could change) and mostly about the margins they like to maintain (bean counter mode)
[doublepost=1455550724][/doublepost]

Edit
[doublepost=1455544209][/doublepost]

I get what people are on about.

Good - At least we have clarity on the disappointment at least.

We could all yell at each other in here endlessly and nobody is more right or less right....just of differing views.
Such is a "forum" - haha

 

[Trenchtoaster]

For me its worth the hassle to boot up into Windows as the performance is significantly better. But I have the 512 GB SSD so I do not lose the fast speed from the SSD.

My issue is that I bought the 5k 2015 iMac and I have bootcamp set up. I am too damn lazy to boot into OSX. I literally have been in Windows since January since I normally just play Dota 2, work on some Python stuff, and watch YouTube on my computer. I was thinking of trying to install Dota 2 on Mac to see if it is okay... or maybe running it in parallels?