Geekbench score for the Intel i9-13900K is out and it’s not looking pretty for Apple …

[leman]

I don't know... this guy makes some excellent points that show where Windows is better than Mac OS. A lot of inconsistent behaviors in Mac, and annoying behaviors.

How are these "excellent points"? You can make a video pointing out quirks, idiosyncrasies or just design choices like these for any major OS (and some of these, like the drag and drop in Premiere are applications bugs).

Like take the popular "cannot move files in Finder" claim. The likely reason why Apple does it this way is because "cut" in a text editor works fundamentally different to moving files in a file manager. "Cut" immediately removes the content, it's a "delete+save in the clipboard", and it is possible to "cut" something without actually "pasting" it. So instead Apple provides you a modification to "paste", which is "move". And anyway, the native UI action to moving files on Apple platforms is drag+drop, which moves things. Is it different from how Windows does it? Sure! Is it weird, inconsistent or stupid? No, it's not. It's just a different design which is fully internally consistent.

 

[pshufd]

Yeah, still doesn't make it ok. I'd rather spend $300 on an OS than have it riddled with spyware.

Most people prefer spyware.

Garmin has the same model. You buy the hardware and you get the service for free. Many of us wonder how this works but I guess cloud storage and service is really cheap.

 

[Colstan]

Most people prefer spyware.

Exactly. I have a non-tech friend who doesn't know the difference between a screen shot and print screen. I've explained all of the privacy invasions that happen with Windows, Chrome, Google search, etc. He just doesn't care and says he's more concerned about "real problems". Privacy in tech appeals mainly to us nerds, and even then, not all tech people pay it much mind.

I certainly do care, which is why I don't use products from Microsoft, Google, and Facebook, but that's unrealistic for the majority of the public.

 

[MrGunny94]

How are these "excellent points"? You can make a video pointing out quirks, idiosyncrasies or just design choices like these for any major OS (and some of these, like the drag and drop in Premiere are applications bugs).

Like take the popular "cannot move files in Finder" claim. The likely reason why Apple does it this way is because "cut" in a text editor works fundamentally different to moving files in a file manager. "Cut" immediately removes the content, it's a "delete+save in the clipboard", and it is possible to "cut" something without actually "pasting" it. So instead Apple provides you a modification to "paste", which is "move". And anyway, the native UI action to moving files on Apple platforms is drag+drop, which moves things. Is it different from how Windows does it? Sure! Is it weird, inconsistent or stupid? No, it's not. It's just a different design which is fully internally consistent.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to see this comments that in 'Windows we do it better with x and y' things just work completely different.

I cannot imagine my life without Spotlight ever again for example, I don't mind how macOS works and it doesn't confuse me..

I spend my day in Endeavour OS, Arch Linux, Red Hat Enterprise 7/8/9 (GUIless and with GUI) and there's so many similarities between macOS and Linux that I cannot understand how someone can say this is a BAD UX.

Whenever I have to use Windows Server and the process get stuck or having to use the old GUI on some things like Windows Services and what not, does indeed make it more complicated for me..

But macOS and Linux? I never complained, but again I grew up in these desktop UX.. For me Windows is a multi-step OS that is cramped with more and more steps with each and every iteration.

However I do have to say W11 has made things much better.

 

[Icelus]

Privacy in tech appeals mainly to us nerds, and even then, not all tech people pay it much mind.

I sometimes refer to this document to give them an idea how things work.

https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/A_Day_in_the_Life_of_Your_Data.pdf

 

[jav6454]

Most people prefer spyware.

Garmin has the same model. You buy the hardware and you get the service for free. Many of us wonder how this works but I guess cloud storage and service is really cheap.

Because the spyware is forced on people, how many people do you know were taught something other than Windows or Mac in school?

 

[pshufd]

Because the spyware is forced on people, how many people do you know were taught something other than Windows or Mac in school?

When I was going to school, we were running RSTS/E on a PDP-11.

When I went to college, we used an IBM 360 and the input method was punched card. In my son's CS program, most of the labs were done in Linux.

 

[jav6454]

When I was going to school, we were running RSTS/E on a PDP-11.

When I went to college, we used an IBM 360 and the input method was punched card. In my son's CS program, most of the labs were done in Linux.

You are few. In my case, and several other cases, computer labs were Windows machines and in college, 95%+ of university computers for students were PCs (Library/Labs, et al).

 

[pshufd]

You are few. In my case, and several other cases, computer labs were Windows machines and in college, 95%+ of university computers for students were PCs (Library/Labs, et al).

Most students don't study computer science. Back in the day, if you wanted computer resources, you punched cards.

Most of the people that we hired in my previous job used Linux in college. You know that you're a Linux shop when everyone is quite familiar with vi. A lot of these folks were from India or Chinese immigrants.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I sometimes refer to this document to give them an idea how things work.

https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/A_Day_in_the_Life_of_Your_Data.pdf

Thank you for sharing this. It is very insightful.

 

[Taz Mangus]

When I was going to school, we were running RSTS/E on a PDP-11.

When I went to college, we used an IBM 360 and the input method was punched card. In my son's CS program, most of the labs were done in Linux.

Wow, I have not thought about that in a long time. I remember using PDP-11 and IBM 360 in colliege. I used a combination of paper tape and punched cards. The fun thing about punched cards was when I would dropped the pile of cards and had to put them back in order again.

I took a Motorola 6800 micro-processor course that only created code in assembly language. The instructor would grade us on how few bytes our solutions were.

 

[pshufd]

Wow, I have not thought about that in a long time. I remember using PDP-11 and IBM 360 in colliege. I used a combination of paper tape and punched cards. The fun thing about punched cards was when I would dropped the pile of cards and had to put them back in order again.

I took a Motorola 6800 micro-processor course that only created code in assembly language. The instructor would grade us on how few bytes our solutions were.

I have an HP-67 which has about 250 steps of memory for your programs. It's on my desk and still works.

Back then systems had very little memory. Computers like the KIM-1 and EFL that were SBCs had tiny amounts of RAM compared to today. Operating systems like RT-11 gave you maybe 4 KB of address space. In the old days you did program overlays too. I think that the vast majority of computer science students would consider it the stone age.

There were card sorters in the old days but you had to turn on a mode which punched sequence numbers in your card. I had seen one somewhere but never used it.

I think that most of the scientific programming was done in Fortran back then. People sprinkled in assembler too.

 

[ILoveCalvinCool]

Good, I hope Intel and AMD come out with lots of new chips that blow Apple's chips out of the water. That forces Apple to turn around and try to do the exact same thing to Intel/AMD. Competition is good for all of us. Three cheers for them pulling out all the stops to make the M-series look as weak as possible in comparison. Pass the popcorn!

 

[hans1972]

Why would an objectively slower computer “feel and run better at everyday tasks” though?

Because most people care about the responsiveness and what happens when they interact with the hardware and the user interface.

I care much more about the responsiveness when I click on a button than I do on how fast a computer can render a video. It's very difficult to measure such responsiveness in the UI. And a lot of time operating systems and applications can make visual tricks to make you feel it is more responsive than it objectively is.

I don't care about objectivity when I use a computer. I care about my own subjective experience.

 

[MrGunny94]

Good, I hope Intel and AMD come out with lots of new chips that blow Apple's chips out of the water. That forces Apple to turn around and try to do the exact same thing to Intel/AMD. Competition is good for all of us. Three cheers for them pulling out all the stops to make the M-series look as weak as possible in comparison. Pass the popcorn!

Ryzen 6800u / 6850u also looks really good.

AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 6850U: ACPI Platform Profile Low-Power vs. Balanced vs. Performance

Especially when compared to Intel offers..

Intel Core i7 1280P Windows 11 vs. Ubuntu vs. Clear Linux Performance

Sorry for the Linux focused website, but it shows clear evidence across the board regarding Power Modes.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

That forces Apple to turn around and try to do the exact same thing to Intel/AMD.

Except it doesn’t. My prediction is that the M3 will be released to the market and other competing systems currently being sold at the time will have higher benchmark numbers. Which is fine, because ALL the M3 has to be faster than, is the M2. It’s not like anyone’s going to be stably running macOS on anything faster than a current Apple Silicon processor, anyway (actually, I believe this was the case for both the M1 and the M2, fastest Macs to be sure, but when introduced, there was a competitors chip that scored higher in raw benchmarks).

If the M3 DOES outperform the competition in raw benchmarks, it will be because AMD and Intel have fallen on REALLY hard times.

 

[jdb8167]

Except it doesn’t. My prediction is that the M3 will be released to the market and other competing systems currently being sold at the time will have higher benchmark numbers. Which is fine, because ALL the M3 has to be faster than, is the M2. It’s not like anyone’s going to be stably running macOS on anything faster than a current Apple Silicon processor, anyway (actually, I believe this was the case for both the M1 and the M2, fastest Macs to be sure, but when introduced, there was a competitors chip that scored higher in raw benchmarks).

If the M3 DOES outperform the competition in raw benchmarks, it will be because AMD and Intel have fallen on REALLY hard times.

Define "benchmarks"?

If the benchmarks are run in a fair environment then it is unlikely that an M3 will be outperformed. A fair environment would be a small thin notebook running solely on battery power. One of the benchmarks should be overall battery life. Right now, no Intel or AMD SoC can touch the M1/M2 when running on battery (though the latest AMDs are closer).

If you want to compare an M3 Ultra with an unlimited power budget desktop CPU then that would be valid. I can't predict how that will shape up but I'm beyond sure that given a constrained heat and power budget, the M3 will smoke (no pun intended) all comers.

 

[grkm3]

Getting closer to final silicon 2314 single and over 26000 multi

Z690 Taichi - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Z690 Taichi with an Intel Core i9-13900K processor.

browser.geekbench.com

 

[pshufd]

Define "benchmarks"?

If the benchmarks are run in a fair environment then it is unlikely that an M3 will be outperformed. A fair environment would be a small thin notebook running solely on battery power. One of the benchmarks should be overall battery life. Right now, no Intel or AMD SoC can touch the M1/M2 when running on battery (though the latest AMDs are closer).

If you want to compare an M3 Ultra with an unlimited power budget desktop CPU then that would be valid. I can't predict how that will shape up but I'm beyond sure that given a constrained heat and power budget, the M3 will smoke (no pun intended) all comers.

The definition of Fair is what makes me look the best. So Intel and AMD will not be using PPW to compare against Apple Silicon. They can credibly argue that it's raw performance as that's what they focus on.

 

[jdb8167]

The definition of Fair is what makes me look the best. So Intel and AMD will not be using PPW to compare against Apple Silicon. They can credibly argue that it's raw performance as that's what they focus on.

That really doesn't make any sense. If I want a notebook and you only sell a desktop class CPU, how is that helping me decide what notebook to buy? We don't compare Xeon and EPYC CPUs against desktop class CPUs for the same reason. It isn't useful.

 

[pshufd]

That really doesn't make any sense. If I want a notebook and you only sell a desktop class CPU, how is that helping me decide what notebook to buy? We don't compare Xeon and EPYC CPUs against desktop class CPUs for the same reason. It isn't useful.

You make ads like this:

 

[Abazigal]

The definition of Fair is what makes me look the best. So Intel and AMD will not be using PPW to compare against Apple Silicon. They can credibly argue that it's raw performance as that's what they focus on.

Didn't John Gruber make a post about this?

A Burger Without Heinz – Worms and Viruses

wormsandviruses.com

Finally, I (and I suspect Gruber) have been on alert about this subject because even laptop reviews that do compare PC laptops with Apple Silicon based MacBooks seem to understate just how much better these MacBooks are in terms of power, noise, and battery life. It’s no longer a choice between a compromised laptop that runs Windows and another compromised laptop that runs macOS. It’s a choice between a hot and noisy and/or slow PC laptop running Windows and a cool, silent, and fast MacBook. Most buyers don’t know that choice now exists, and it’s the reviewer’s job to educate them. Excluding MacBooks from consideration does those buyers a considerable disservice.

He noted how laptop reviewers seem to be underplaying just how ahead the MacBooks are in performance and efficiency, or just plain ignoring them altogether. One theory is that laptop OEMs are specifically telling these reviewers to not compare their products against the Macbook, because they know they will look bad in comparison. Another theory is that it just doesn't make for exciting coverage, when you have a clear winner and every other contender is fighting desperately for 2nd place.

 

[Sydde]

… Another theory is that it just doesn't make for exciting coverage, when you have a clear winner and every other contender is fighting desperately for 2nd place.

Ok, Apple is about 8% of computer market, so second place would be …?

 

[altaic]

Ok, Apple is about 8% of computer market, so second place would be …?

Dell XPS % of the global computer market? Razer laptop %? Would be interesting to see some granular data of competitors to Apple’s laptop lineup.

 

[Abazigal]

Ok, Apple is about 8% of computer market, so second place would be …?

I was referring to laptop performance, not market share.

For example, there isn’t really any other windows laptop out there which can match an M1 MBA in terms of battery life while still sporting the same form factor. So Apple takes the undisputed crown when it comes to performance per watt, and everyone else just flat out lies about theirs, and the reviewer has to see who does a more egregious job of it (my rule of thumb is to just halve whatever numbers windows OEMs throw out).