Good camcorder?

[JustinePaula]

ok, you are a hobbyist, shooting is one task, making it acceptable for viewing is just stage 2, in a 2 stage process, unless you shoot until the device is full, then show this, using fast forward to skip the bad bits [which is ironically a form of editing...] I am so confused as to why you are not keen to at least try a bit of light editing... A bit like a child not wanting to try cauliflower cheese, then one day that bratty kid, age 34 tries cauliflower cheese and has 30 yrs of regret to live through.. Try editing... [and no not me at age 34, loved cauliflower cheese from a very young age..]

 

[Analog Kid]

I have the 15+. I prefer a camcorder. Perhaps keep my 2018 Canon.

If you prefer the camcorder because of how you hold it, then you might look for an accessory to the iPhone that makes it feel more natural to film with. I'm not particularly comfortable with how a flat slab feels in my hands when using the camera-- it's always in my pocket, but it doesn't feel the same as a dedicated device. Some kind of accessory might bridge that gap on the video front.

I can't recommend any, but they must be out there.

 

[jwolf6589]

If you prefer the camcorder because of how you hold it, then you might look for an accessory to the iPhone that makes it feel more natural to film with. I'm not particularly comfortable with how a flat slab feels in my hands when using the camera-- it's always in my pocket, but it doesn't feel the same as a dedicated device. Some kind of accessory might bridge that gap on the video front.

I can't recommend any, but they must be out there.

Yeah but they still overheat in the hot sun.

 

[jwolf6589]

ok, you are a hobbyist, shooting is one task, making it acceptable for viewing is just stage 2, in a 2 stage process, unless you shoot until the device is full, then show this, using fast forward to skip the bad bits [which is ironically a form of editing...] I am so confused as to why you are not keen to at least try a bit of light editing... A bit like a child not wanting to try cauliflower cheese, then one day that bratty kid, age 34 tries cauliflower cheese and has 30 yrs of regret to live through.. Try editing... [and no not me at age 34, loved cauliflower cheese from a very young age..]

I have in the past with iMovie.

 

[MacProFCP]

I am a hobbyist not a pro.

You made very clear in your posts. My point is that you came here asking for advice and, as a professional in this area, I am uniquely qualified to provide such advice.

The issue, as mentioned by others as well, is that the small camcorder market has not kept up with technology. All those units are sub-par compared with any modern smartphone. If you want to go and spend a few hundred bucks on a toy, go ahead. You asked for advice and were giving it: for anything under $2K or so, save your money and use your phone. If you’re willing to spend ~$2K, get a used Panasonic GH5 with a decent Lumix lens.

If you’re set on a traditional camcorder, go to B&H and look under “professional” camcorders for either a Sony, Panasonic or, if you must, a Canon. Steer clear of the “consumer” models because, as mentioned, they are basically junk and will deliver horrible picture quality for most indoor situations as well as an unpleasant user experience.

Any camera worth its salt today should be able to provide 4K at 60p, have solid audio inputs, record to SD card or better (not internal recording unless it’s a phone), use a CMOS sensor with either a single 1” or 3 @ 1/3”, have a large viewfinder and solid autofocus.

Sony is the best in this area, but Panasonic has some great models for less.

If you can afford it, I would recommend a used Sony Z190. B&H has a few. Good luck.

 

[jwolf6589]

You made very clear in your posts. My point is that you came here asking for advice and, as a professional in this area, I am uniquely qualified to provide such advice.

The issue, as mentioned by others as well, is that the small camcorder market has not kept up with technology. All those units are sub-par compared with any modern smartphone. If you want to go and spend a few hundred bucks on a toy, go ahead. You asked for advice and were giving it: for anything under $2K or so, save your money and use your phone. If you’re willing to spend ~$2K, get a used Panasonic GH5 with a decent Lumix lens.

If you’re set on a traditional camcorder, go to B&H and look under “professional” camcorders for either a Sony, Panasonic or, if you must, a Canon. Steer clear of the “consumer” models because, as mentioned, they are basically junk and will deliver horrible picture quality for most indoor situations as well as an unpleasant user experience.

Any camera worth it salt today should be able to provide 4K at 60p, have solid audio inputs, record to SD card or better (not internal recording unless it’s a phone), use a CMOS sensor with either a single 1” or 3 @ 1/3”, have a large viewfinder and solid autofocus.

Sony is the best in this area, but Panasonic has some great models for less.

If you can afford it, I would recommend a used Sony Z190. B&H has a few. Good luck.

I prefer a traditional camcorder over a phone because for one they don't overheat in the hot sun.

 

[bousozoku]

Pro video guy here:

Don’t waste your money on that POJ. Your iPhone will shoot better video that almost anything under $3K.

Unless you’re looking to spend $2K+, it’s a non-starter. Low light, focus, ease of use, audio quality… anything…the iPhone has it beat.

The Sony Z90 is about as cheap as I’d recommend for a simple camcorder and it’s nearly $3K. You can get a Panasonic GH5 or GH6 for under $2K but you’d need a lens and that does not have motorized zoom.

Seriously, just shoot with your phone or buy a used 11 Pro or 13 Pro and make that your camcorder.

Since he doesn't want something too much, why not the Panasonic G85 or G95 and the 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6? The zoom is not motorized but the image stabilization would be good and the combination price might be good. Even a used GH4 might be nice, but the Dual IS of the G85 and G95 would be superior to only lens IS.

 

[jwolf6589]

Since he doesn't want something too much, why not the Panasonic G85 or G95 and the 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6? The zoom is not motorized but the image stabilization would be good and the combination price might be good. Even a used GH4 might be nice, but the Dual IS of the G85 and G95 would be superior to only lens IS.

Don't have that one.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/browse/Camcorders/ci/1820/N/4294548420?origSearch=Camcorders&sts=

How much is it?

 

[James_C]

You may want to consider the DJI Osmo Pocket 3 Handheld Camera Creator Combo. Small light, has a built in gimbal for handheld stable video. Shoots 4k, should not overheat. Not as obtrusive as a phone or conventional camcorder. Can be used with off camera mic to record excellent audio. Not super expensive.

 

[MacProFCP]

I prefer a traditional camcorder over a phone because for one they don't overheat in the hot sun.

Overheating still happens, even with highly professional cameras like the Sony A7s3. The cameras that do well outside have active cooling like the full body units I mentioned (Z90).

Since he doesn't want something too much, why not the Panasonic G85 or G95 and the 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6? The zoom is not motorized but the image stabilization would be good and the combination price might be good. Even a used GH4 might be nice, but the Dual IS of the G85 and G95 would be superior to only lens IS.

The G85 uses a different sensor and will likely still suffer from low light and image quality compared to the GH5 and GH6.

In my experience, the modern smartphone, with its software integration, is vastly superior to most consumer cameras. The family camcorders is a thing of the past and unlikely to make a comeback.

 

[jwolf6589]

Overheating still happens, even with highly professional cameras like the Sony A7s3. The cameras that do well outside have active cooling like the full body units I mentioned (Z90).


The G85 uses a different sensor and will likely still suffer from low light and image quality compared to the GH5 and GH6.

In my experience, the modern smartphone, with its software integration, is vastly superior to most consumer cameras. The family camcorders is a thing of the past and unlikely to make a comeback.

Not true. My Canon Vixia not once overheated on my SF trip yet my then iPhone did.

 

[MacProFCP]

Not true. My Canon Vixia not once overheated on my SF trip yet my then iPhone did.

1. Your individual experience may be an outlier. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of articles discussing overheating in cameras. Just because your experience varies doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

2. The only iPhone I’ve ever heard of overheating is the iPhone 15. I’m sure it happens but it does not appear to be a frequent issue.

3. I really don’t understand what you’re asking for at this point, is it just justification for a product you want? Lots of good advice has come to answer your question with a variety of options.

I’m sorry. I won’t recommend something I don’t believe in. My suggestion, again, is the you either 1. use a smartphone, 2. Get a mediocre DSLR / mirrorless and lens for $1K - $2K or 3. Get a prosumer camcorder for $2K+.

I’ve been shooting since 2000 with all types of cameras, starting with a Sony Mini DV Handicam. Went from there to the Canon GL2 then to the Panasonic HVX200 and from there to Sony Ex1 and now Z280 and FX9. I’ve been around the block and low light, file type, imagine quality (lens), features and settings are vastly different in the sub $1500 range.

Do with this what you like.

Best of luck.

 

[Boyd01]

I’ve been shooting since 2000 with all types of cameras, starting with a Sony Mini DV Handicam. Went from there to the Canon GL2 then to the Panasonic HVX200 and from there to Sony Ex1 and now Z280 and FX9.

Nice! I started in 2001 and stuck with Sony: VX2000, PDX-10, HVR-Z1U and finally PMW-EX1. Retired now and can't justify the cost of anything new since I don't shoot much video, but I still like the images from the EX1.

 

[MacProFCP]

Nice! I started in 2001 and stuck with Sony: VX2000, PDX-10, HVR-Z1U and finally PMW-EX1. Retired now and can't justify the cost of anything new since I don't shoot much video, but I still like the images from the EX1.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Since when does financial justification come into purchasing AV equipment?

The EX1 is my favorite camera ever. I dearly miss the rotating handle, but, alas, the world has moved past 1080:30p.

 

[jwolf6589]

1. Your individual experience may be an outlier. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of articles discussing overheating in cameras. Just because your experience varies doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

2. The only iPhone I’ve ever heard of overheating is the iPhone 15. I’m sure it happens but it does not appear to be a frequent issue.

3. I really don’t understand what you’re asking for at this point, is it just justification for a product you want? Lots of good advice has come to answer your question with a variety of options.

I’m sorry. I won’t recommend something I don’t believe in. My suggestion, again, is the you either 1. use a smartphone, 2. Get a mediocre DSLR / mirrorless and lens for $1K - $2K or 3. Get a prosumer camcorder for $2K+.

I’ve been shooting since 2000 with all types of cameras, starting with a Sony Mini DV Handicam. Went from there to the Canon GL2 then to the Panasonic HVX200 and from there to Sony Ex1 and now Z280 and FX9. I’ve been around the block and low light, file type, imagine quality (lens), features and settings are vastly different in the sub $1500 range.

Do with this what you like.

Best of luck.

Every iPhone I have ever owned overheats in the hot sun. You must not live in an area that gets hot.

I have used camcorders since the VHS days and have yet to have one of them overheat on me in the hot sun.

 

[MacProFCP]

Every iPhone I have ever owned overheats in the hot sun. You must not live in an area that gets hot.

I have used camcorders since the VHS days and have yet to have one of them overheat on me in the hot sun.

Here is a unit that sounds ok. It’s on sale and they also have one used for even less. I can’t guarantee how this will look but it’s a .5” CMOS sensor and can shoot 4K but only 30p:


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194106-REG

 

[bousozoku]

Don't have that one.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/browse/Camcorders/ci/1820/N/4294548420?origSearch=Camcorders&sts=

How much is it?

The GH4, G85. and G95 are hybrid cameras. The GH4 is older but has more functionality. I used one for years for video and stills photography. The G95 is running about US$700 right now, without a lens.

The 14-140 f/3.5-5.6 Mk II is probably what you would want, for the 10x range. It's running US$500 right now, but is usually $100 more. There are better lenses but the prices go up a lot from there.

I used the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 briefly and it was amazing but the price was up a lot from the 14-140mm.

I used to carry about US$10,000 worth of micro Four-Thirds equipment just to photograph sports, but you don't need so much. Prices have risen, though.

 

[jwolf6589]

The GH4, G85. and G95 are hybrid cameras. The GH4 is older but has more functionality. I used one for years for video and stills photography. The G95 is running about US$700 right now, without a lens.

The 14-140 f/3.5-5.6 Mk II is probably what you would want, for the 10x range. It's running US$500 right now, but is usually $100 more. There are better lenses but the prices go up a lot from there.

I used the Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 briefly and it was amazing but the price was up a lot from the 14-140mm.

I used to carry about US$10,000 worth of micro Four-Thirds equipment just to photograph sports, but you don't need so much. Prices have risen, though.

$500 seems to be my price range. Some can’t understand this but I am not a pro and can’t afford pro gear.

 

[bousozoku]

Overheating still happens, even with highly professional cameras like the Sony A7s3. The cameras that do well outside have active cooling like the full body units I mentioned (Z90).


The G85 uses a different sensor and will likely still suffer from low light and image quality compared to the GH5 and GH6.

In my experience, the modern smartphone, with its software integration, is vastly superior to most consumer cameras. The family camcorders is a thing of the past and unlikely to make a comeback.

The G85 sensor is very similar to the GH4 sensor. I didn't use the GH4 past ISO 3200 but I had better luck with it than a Nikon D7200. Certainly the GH5s with its dual-gain sensor would be much better in lower light. The G95 has a sensor similar to the one in the G9 and it's quite capable but I don't know that you could squeeze ISO 4000 out of it.

Certainly, smart phones are good at video, as long as you're doing clips and not running continuously. That's why I'm sure that production companies have many phones to capture loads of clips for video production.

 

[bousozoku]

$500 seems to be my price range. Some can’t understand this but I am not a pro and can’t afford pro gear.

The G85 and G95 are consumer gear with very good quality.

What you can find that is new for that price is not going to be better than what you have, except in small, incremental ways.

 

[jwolf6589]

The G85 and G95 are consumer gear with very good quality.

What you can find that is new for that price is not going to be better than what you have, except in small, incremental ways.

Take a look at that when B and H has it in stock.

 

[jwolf6589]

Here is a unit that sounds ok. It’s on sale and they also have one used for even less. I can’t guarantee how this will look but it’s a .5” CMOS sensor and can shoot 4K but only 30p:


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194106-REG

No way in the world could I afford that. Even if I had the money I would not spend it on photography. It’s a hobby…….

 

[bousozoku]

Take a look at that when B and H has it in stock.

You might try LensRentals as you can rent equipment for a few days to see if you like it.

 

[MacProFCP]

You might try LensRentals as you can rent equipment for a few days to see if you like it.

They also have good sales on purchasing their gear.

 

[MacProFCP]

No way in the world could I afford that. Even if I had the money I would not spend it on photography. It’s a hobby…….

Just thought of a great camera for you and right in the price range:

Insta 360 and Go Pro. These cameras are easy use and have great specs. They won’t overheat and they can take a beating. I own a few GoPros and they are very good the only downside is no zoom.