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SpaceJello

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2006
442
83
Also not everyone has a cell number. iMessage can work with out a cellphone.

So why are the European telecoms involved with this if a cell number is not needed.

By you reasoning, all other non-cellphone number based messenging system should be opened up as well? I don’t recall Zoom or Skype and such are opened.
 
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cylack

macrumors 6502
Feb 21, 2006
292
275
Orlando, FL
So Apple spent a ton of money developing a proprietary product that sets its phone apart from the others an they have to share it? How does that make sense? Should Sony PS5 be forced to share its technology with Xbox? I really hate Google; a den of thieves that can’t invent anything useful itself and has to steal from others (see Eric Schmidt on the Apple board taking notes quietly).
 
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1129846

Cancelled
Mar 25, 2021
528
988
So why are the European telecoms involved with this if a cell number is not needed.

By you reasoning, all other non-cellphone number based messenging system should be opened up as well? I don’t recall Zoom or Skype and such are opened.

The telecoms are involved as they also would like their SMS and MMS to use higher quality but the one dragging their feet and refusing to upgrade their standards is Apple.

Also the argument made was sms was the fall back. Not valid as a counter point plus as pointed out before the quality of it is beyond **** and Apple is 100% to be blamed for it as Apple refuses to modernize.
 

SpaceJello

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2006
442
83
The telecoms are involved as they also would like their SMS and MMS to use higher quality but the one dragging their feet and refusing to upgrade their standards is Apple.

Also the argument made was sms was the fall back. Not valid as a counter point plus as pointed out before the quality of it is beyond **** and Apple is 100% to be blamed for it as Apple refuses to modernize.
I don’t see why everyone else can’t come together to form a consortium and provide a new updated sms standard with or without Apple. Surely, iMessage isn’t even over 50% of all the messages sent around the world.
 
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kc9hzn

macrumors 68000
Jun 18, 2020
1,603
1,909
The telecoms are involved as they also would like their SMS and MMS to use higher quality but the one dragging their feet and refusing to upgrade their standards is Apple.

Also the argument made was sms was the fall back. Not valid as a counter point plus as pointed out before the quality of it is beyond **** and Apple is 100% to be blamed for it as Apple refuses to modernize.
Then they should have been working on RCS all along and should have maintained their own RCS stacks. They let it die on the vine before Google decided to promote RCS, and Google seems to have adopted RCS mostly because its subservience to the carriers, the Jibe purchase, and its “next billion users” efforts in Africa and India. And RCS is not “modern”, it’s still a largely pre-smartphone standard.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,148
8,098
No. Apple had to change how iMessage works from being a peer to peer solution to having the conversation handled by an Apple server because they lost the VirnetX lawsuit. This costs apple a lot of $$$ and if you force open iMessage who pays for the increase in server costs or do they allow the return of peer-to-peer?
Seems to me that if the EU were to just pony up the money to fund a company (or get behind one that exists?) that would create an EU server that all applications have an option, I mean, be forced to use, they’d have their solution right there. That would employ EU citizens, bring money into the EU in the way of licensing deals and, of course, that money would be taxed, filling the coffers of EU regulators and other governmental entities.

Why wouldn’t they do this? Likely because the EU would not be able to agree on what country would be the home office for that, sure to be, huge organization. The government they’ve created does not easily lend itself to fostering companies with broad worldwide use.
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
Seems to me that if the EU were to just pony up the money to fund a company (or get behind one that exists?) that would create an EU server that all applications have an option, I mean, be forced to use, they’d have their solution right there. That would employ EU citizens, bring money into the EU in the way of licensing deals and, of course, that money would be taxed, filling the coffers of EU regulators and other governmental entities.
Nobody even cares about jobs, taxes and domestic corporations. The EU's job is to regulate a common market and tell all the participants the rules of fair competition. It's like the organization committee for a Football World Cup. There's a whole other group of people responsible for the success of the home team. We just want an awesome tournament with a video assisted referee (VAR) adding to Fair Play. ⚽️
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Nobody even cares about jobs, taxes and domestic corporations. The EU's job is to regulate a common market and tell all the participants the rules of fair competition
True . All the while changing the rules as they go along to rip apart american tech.
. It's like the organization committee for a Football World Cup. There's a whole other group of people responsible for the success of the home team. We just want an awesome tournament with a video assisted referee (VAR) adding to Fair Play. ⚽️
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
True . All the while changing the rules as they go along to rip apart american tech.
If you lose, because of a red card foul, you weren’t really playing the game. Fair Play doesn’t mean you win, it only means you lost fairly. That’s in contrast to US courts, which like to punish foreign owned corporations much harder.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
If you lose, because of a red card foul, you weren’t really playing the game. Fair Play doesn’t mean you win, it only means you lost fairly. That’s in contrast to US courts, which like to punish foreign owned corporations much harder.
The EU appears to be into into over-regulation. Big techs mistake is that they didn’t see this coming and could have made some adjustments. The problem, imo, is the more regulation the more innovation is stifled.

Especially with this as I believe with sideloading and alternate app stores the EU will have quite the mess on its hands.
 

Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
The EU appears to be into into over-regulation. Big techs mistake is that they didn’t see this coming and could have made some adjustments. The problem, imo, is the more regulation the more innovation is stifled.
Sure, Apple Computer Inc. could've avoided founding a company in a garage in 1976. Not even being a corporation would've made them a little more immune to being a subject of regulation. They also didn't need to be successful, innovative and make a dent in the universe. Now that they did make such a huge impact on people's lives with their devices, governments and customers need to ask themselves is it for good or bad?
Especially with this as I believe with sideloading and alternate app stores the EU will have quite the mess on its hands.
Not really, since installing apps is just a basic requirement for any operating system. It's Apple's and the user's responsibility to keep it safe. The EU has nothing to do with it, other than fine Apple a hefty percentage of their turnover, if they unlawfully keep their system closed.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Sure, Apple Computer Inc. could've avoided founding a company in a garage in 1976. Not even being a corporation would've made them a little more immune to being a subject of regulation. They also didn't need to be successful, innovative and make a dent in the universe. Now that they did make such a huge impact on people's lives with their devices, governments and customers need to ask themselves is it for good or bad?
Make no mistake an iPhone is a premium life style device choice unlike air. And to boot apple is a minority player in the cell phone market. They are popular and they are influential by creating trends.
Not really, since installing apps is just a basic requirement for any operating system. It's Apple's and the user's responsibility to keep it safe. The EU has nothing to do with it, other than fine Apple a hefty percentage of their turnover, if they unlawfully keep their system closed.
It’s going to be open season once this comes to pass and all of the downfalls that come with an unregulated market.
 
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Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,265
Berlin, Berlin
Make no mistake an iPhone is a premium life style device choice unlike air. And to boot apple is a minority player in the cell phone market. They are popular and they are influential by creating trends.
I know you believe, the words "premium life style" stand for something very meaningful. But every car build in Germany is a premium car and nobody thinks the entire car industry shouldn't be regulated, because they only make a few premium lifestyle products. I still don't get what you're really trying to say, but it's not convincing.
It’s going to be open season once this comes to pass and all of the downfalls that come with an unregulated market.
Bring it on! I already risk being euthanized by the government doctor since Bismarck introduced social health insurance to Germany in 1883. So let the downfall of side-loading apps from the internet begin. 🖥️ 🇩🇪
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
I know you believe, the words "premium life style" stand for something very meaningful. But every car build in Germany is a premium car and nobody thinks the entire car industry shouldn't be regulated, because they only make a few premium lifestyle products. I still don't get what you're really trying to say, but it's not convincing.
The entire car industry isn’t regulated. Health and safety items are. Nobody is telling bmw they have to accept Porsche engines in their vehicles.
Bring it on! I already risk being euthanized by the government doctor since Bismarck introduced social health insurance to Germany in 1883. So let the downfall of side-loading apps from the internet begin. 🖥️ 🇩🇪
My opinion these regulations as well as the regs to force usb-c are great examples of government overreach.
 
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jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,257
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
The EU appears to be into into over-regulation. Big techs mistake is that they didn’t see this coming and could have made some adjustments. The problem, imo, is the more regulation the more innovation is stifled.

Especially with this as I believe with sideloading and alternate app stores the EU will have quite the mess on its hands.
Agreed. Right now, if there is a billing concern, you take it with Apple. If there is an issue, you take with Apple. With side loading, you will not know where to start and everyone will have different processes.
 

1129846

Cancelled
Mar 25, 2021
528
988
The entire car industry isn’t regulated. Health and safety items are. Nobody is telling bmw they have to accept Porsche engines in their vehicles.
Difference is BMW nor Porsche is going to stop you from putting in a Porsche engine in your BMW. You can do it and make the adaptors and monfications to do it if you want 2.

Apple is actively blocking that from happening with there certs and processes.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Difference is BMW nor Porsche is going to stop you from putting in a Porsche engine in your BMW. You can do it and make the adaptors and monfications to do it if you want 2.

Apple is actively blocking that from happening with there certs and processes.
You can do what you want with your iPhone. Apple is not stopping you but they don’t have to help you.

Same as Porsche engine in a bmw. BMW isn’t stopping you but they don’t have to help you.
 
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1129846

Cancelled
Mar 25, 2021
528
988
You can do what you want with your iPhone. Apple is not stopping you but they don’t have to help you.

Same as Porsche engine in a bmw. BMW isn’t stopping you but they don’t have to help you.
Ummm going to tell you that you are wrong.
Apple actively blocking jail breaking and breaking that from happening.
Apple actively requires you to go to threw the App store for any apps. Side loading is not a thing.

So you want to try that again.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
34,313
24,050
Gotta be in it to win it
Ummm going to tell you that you are wrong.
Apple actively blocking jail breaking and breaking that from happening.
Apple actively requires you to go to threw the App store for any apps. Side loading is not a thing.

So you want to try that again.
Nope. If you are experienced and determined enough you can crack apples system same as putting a Porsche engine in a bmw.
 
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