Happy Birthday to Linux

[Heat_Fan89]

I think Steam is doing quite well on Windows and even macOS to a degree. I doubt they really need Linux to continue to succeed.

With that said, since they do have a desire to play in the Linux community, Ubuntu is the logical choice to work with in this area. Ubuntu is the the most well-known, ubiquitous, distro to people who know very little about Linux. Plus, it's one of the top easiest distro's to use for newbies.

Sure there is a voice from the Linux gaming community to have Steam on the platform and I think that's good. But I won't fool myself into thinking Linux will save Steam or vice versa.

I never said they need Linux to succeed. They want Linux to succeed or else they would not push their SteamOS and they made public in the past that they did want Linux to succeed and therefore transition from Windows to Linux.

Just a small sample: "Linux has never been a hot gaming platform. Valve, creator of the Steam game engine and network, has long wanted Linux to replace Windows as the PC gaming platform. Indeed, Gabe Newell, Valve's CEO, once said, "Linux is the future of gaming." That didn't happen, but Valve didn't give up on Linux. Now, Valve is doubling down on Linux, by proposing changes to the Linux kernel to make it more gaming-friendly."

https://www.zdnet.com/article/valve-proposes-game-friendly-changes-to-the-linux-kernel/

 

[a2jack]

Make Linux game friendly and it becomes more useful for us all.

The future is in the graphics. a2

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Why would Steam need to get behind Canonical?

The steam client was released and it's available on every distro and now there's Proton.

With Proton and native games there's ~10,000 games on Steam, there's more games for Linux than there are for Mac.

The entire point of Open Source is to not single vendor

Because SteamOS is irrelevant that's why. If I'm going to play a game I'll do it in Windows because I'm already there. If Steam had backed Canonical/Ubuntu and you boot your PC in Linux to do things besides playing games then chances are you will use that PC for multiple purposes which is what Windows does. You can do online banking, shopping, internet, etc in Windows and jump into your Steam Client in Windows to play games. I don't need SteamOS just dedicated to playing games. It's the same reason the so-called "Steam Box" died a quick death. It was too restrictive going against PC's that were upgradeable that could do other things very well besides playing games. The Steam Box was viewed as a poorly upgradable Linux Console.

If Steam wants Linux to succeed they need to bridge the gap and make the OS more than playing games especially when you are using it as an operating system. Which is why I said earlier, Linux as a general OS to do the basics is fine and gets the job done but it will NEVER have broad appeal outside the basics. Not when Windows is the operating systems version of the Swiss Army Knife.

Make Linux game friendly and it becomes more useful for us all.

The future is in the graphics. a2

But that's the "Catch 22" isn't it. It won't be game friendly to developers who are spending a ton of money on the Windows platform to make games because Linux doesn't have the appeal to gamers as Windows does. So they have to ask, why spend money and invest in Linux if the return on investment isn't there?

 

[cube]

Make Linux game friendly and it becomes more useful for us all.

It is most games that are unfriendly by being programmed in DX instead of OpenGL.

 

[lowendlinux]

Because SteamOS is irrelevant that's why. If I'm going to play a game I'll do it in Windows because I'm already there. If Steam had backed Canonical/Ubuntu and you boot your PC in Linux to do things besides playing games then chances are you will use that PC for multiple purposes which is what Windows does. You can do online banking, shopping, internet, etc in Windows and jump into your Steam Client in Windows to play games. I don't need SteamOS just dedicated to playing games. It's the same reason the so-called "Steam Box" died a quick death. It was too restrictive going against PC's that were upgradeable that could do other things very well besides playing games.

If Steam wants Linux to succeed they need to bridge the gap and make the OS more than playing games especially when you are using it as an operating system. Which is why I said earlier, Linux as a general OS to do the basics is fine and gets the job done but it will NEVER have broad appeal outside the basics. Not when Windows is the operating systems version of the Swiss Army Knife.

You don't need SteamOS to play steam games on Linux you just need the Steam client with is available on every distro. More to the point with Steam Play you don't even need the game to be made for Linux in order to play it on Steam in Linux, they're doing all the compatibility server side.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

You don't need SteamOS to play steam games on Linux you just need the Steam client with is available on every distro. More to the point with Steam Play you don't even need the game to be made for Linux in order to play it on Steam in Linux, they're doing all the compatibility server side.

I know that, I have the Steam Client on my Linux Mint install. We're not talking about hot jumping in any Linux distro to the Steam Client. What Valve wants is to make Linux the defacto PC gaming platform and it's not going to happen with a scattershot approach. If you want to move the platform forward, then join forces with Canonical. Amazon chose to put it's app on Ubuntu because it's the biggest Linux distro available. It has the biggest name.

SteamOS is only relevant to Valve and not to gamers.

 

[S.B.G]

If Steam wants Linux to succeed

Again, I'll argue that Linux is already successful without the need for Steam or even gaming in general.
[doublepost=1566843633][/doublepost]

If you want to move the platform forward, then join forces with Canonical.

That statement right there is the antithesis of GNU/Linux philosophy. The only effective way to build a strong Linux platform that would compete with Windows/macOS, would be to move away from the open source, decentralized, community-driven model we have and combine them and make it proprietary. That again is the opposite of what GNU/Linux is all about.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Again, I'll argue that Linux is already successful without the need for Steam or even gaming in general.

And I'd argue besides Ubuntu, who probably gets a nice stash from Amazon, Linux is niche to the tech-nerd crowd. Now if one wants to say, Linux is successful because of its penetration into server based Cloud networks, then yeah, it's a resounding success. But as far as the average non-tech nerd crowd, Linux is an afterthought if that.

 

[S.B.G]

And I'd argue besides Ubuntu, who probably gets a nice stash from Amazon, Linux is niche to the tech-nerd crowd. Now if one wants to say, Linux is successful because of its penetration into server based Cloud networks, then yeah, it's a resounding success.

And getting that "nice stash" from Amazon is another hot-button topic in the community.

But as far as the average non-tech nerd crowd, Linux is an afterthought if that.

I bet if you asked a bunch of Linux users about that, they'd tell you they like it that way.

 

[lowendlinux]

I know that, I have the Steam Client on my Linux Mint install. We're not talking about hot jumping in any Linux distro to the Steam Client. What Valve wants is to make Linux the defacto PC gaming platform and it's not going to happen with a scattershot approach. If you want to move the platform forward, then join forces with Canonical. Amazon chose to put it's app on Ubuntu because it's the biggest Linux distro available. It has the biggest name.

SteamOS is only relevant to Valve and not to gamers.

Steam OS was intended to for the living room not the PC. Steam OS is Debian based which is the best place to do the kind of work they want to do since it has the largest market in Linux and .deb's are easy to re-package.

That Amazon App you bring up is both unwanted and one of the big things that started turning people from Ubuntu.

One of the big issues with hitching you wagon to a particular distro is they never last as the "in" distro they get 5-7 years then they're superseded by the next thing.

If you build on Debian you're going to get 80% of the spins and virtually all the newb distro's with that Gabe can play with his SteamOS and everyone can have clients and you can pick your distro.
[doublepost=1566844697][/doublepost]

And getting that "nice stash" from Amazon is another hot-button topic in the community.


I bet if you asked a bunch of Linux users about that, they'd tell you they like it that way.

"Think Different"

====

I think now that we've fleshed out everything wrong with Linux we can go back to our corners and continue with what's fun

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I bet if you asked a bunch of Linux users about that, they'd tell you they like it that way.

Sure and I wouldn't disagree with that because it was really NO different back in the day with the Apple vs Windows users. The smaller the group the more it tends to circle the wagon and protect it's own. IMO, advanced Linux users tend to feel elitist because not everyone has a good handle or understands Linux like them which is why Mark Shuttleworth created a backlash when he decided to take Ubuntu in a different direction and make it more inclusive to the non Linux techie crowd.
[doublepost=1566850200][/doublepost]

Steam OS was intended to for the living room not the PC. Steam OS is Debian based which is the best place to do the kind of work they want to do since it has the largest market in Linux and .deb's are easy to re-package.

That Amazon App you bring up is both unwanted and one of the big things that started turning people from Ubuntu.

One of the big issues with hitching you wagon to a particular distro is they never last as the "in" distro they get 5-7 years then they're superseded by the next thing.

If you build on Debian you're going to get 80% of the spins and virtually all the newb distro's with that Gabe can play with his SteamOS and everyone can have clients and you can pick your distro.
[doublepost=1566844697][/doublepost]

"Think Different"

====

I think now that we've fleshed out everything wrong with Linux we can go back to our corners and continue with what's fun

But I'm not arguing that. Steam/Valve wants to make SteamOS the defacto operating system for playing games and doing other things on the computer. It has failed the mark, read the article I posted. If you were to poll gamers on Steam most play their games in the Windows environment by a wide margin. I have yet to play any Steam game in Linux because my main driver for everything is Windows. I'm not saying there are some who use SteamOS, I'm just saying it's barely niche. SteamOS and the SteamBox is and has been failure for Valve.

 

[lowendlinux]

Sure and I wouldn't disagree with that because it was really NO different back in the day with the Apple vs Windows users. The smaller the group the more it tends to circle the wagon and protect it's own. IMO, advanced Linux users tend to feel elitist because not everyone has a good handle or understands Linux like them which is why Mark Shuttleworth created a backlash when he decided to take Ubuntu in a different direction and make it more inclusive to the non Linux techie crowd.
[doublepost=1566850200][/doublepost]
But I'm not arguing that. Steam/Valve wants to make SteamOS the defacto operating system for playing games and doing other things on the computer. It has failed the mark, read the article I posted. If you were to poll gamers on Steam most play their games in the Windows environment by a wide margin. I have yet to play any Steam game in Linux because my main driver for everything is Windows. I'm not saying there are some who use SteamOS, I'm just saying it's barely niche. SteamOS and the SteamBox is and has been failure for Valve.

Why are you obsessed with Steam OS?

Why do you think that Valve/Steam want to make SteamOS defacto other than some 5 year old comments from Gabe?

SteamOS was always going to be niche and the guy who's a billionaire from selling games knows that.

Shuttleworth and Canonical have been praised for years for making Linux approachable, Canonical's problems don't stem from building approachable Linux they come from things like Upstart and Mir duplicate projects that were going to Ubuntu only.

 

[S.B.G]

Sure and I wouldn't disagree with that because it was really NO different back in the day with the Apple vs Windows users. The smaller the group the more it tends to circle the wagon and protect it's own.

Actually, it is a lot different "back in the day" with the Apple and Microsoft users. Sure, the groups were small and circled wagons, but the main difference was the fact that Apple and Microsoft were and still are proprietary software/hardware. The GNU and later GNU/Linux community were and are just that, a community. They circled wagons for an entirely different reason and philosophy; making money wasn't it.

IMO, advanced Linux users tend to feel elitist because not everyone has a good handle or understands Linux like them...

This, I think we can agree on.

 

[a2jack]

My last try at Linux Distro was Ubuntu. Supposed GUI friendly, but tricky, requiring trips to the "community" who would only reply with more reams of terminal commands, which was the problem in the first place LOL. a2

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Why are you obsessed with Steam OS?

Why do you think that Valve/Steam want to make SteamOS defacto other than some 5 year old comments from Gabe?

SteamOS was always going to be niche and the guy who's a billionaire from selling games knows that.

Shuttleworth and Canonical have been praised for years for making Linux approachable, Canonical's problems don't stem from building approachable Linux they come from things like Upstart and Mir duplicate projects that were going to Ubuntu only.

But that's not what he told those who bought his failed SteamBox's or those he tried to convince that SteamOS was the future of gaming. It wasn't and SteamOS as hard as Valve tried to sell it off as the next great thing in gaming ended up being as big a failure as the SteamBox.

And according to the ZDnet article he's doubling down. So he's still trying to push his idea that Linux will replace Windows as the defacto gaming platform and it won't.

 

[cube]

My last try at Linux Distro was Ubuntu. Supposed GUI friendly, but tricky, requiring trips to the "community" who would only reply with more reams of terminal commands, which was the problem in the first place LOL. a2

Even if you can do something with the GUI, it is easier to write it as commands.