Has Apple lost its cool to Samsung?

[Max(IT)]

So you've gone from saying no one can see the difference to now saying it's unhealthy to view displays at any closer distance, not even taking into account the different types of displays that are made and their differing characteristics, such as their normal brightness levels and the differing intensity of light emitted.

If you're going to argue one point then at least stick to it, otherwise I'll be quoting your posts when Apple increase the pixel densities of their screens and you love how clear and nice it looks.

Apple's display already are clear and nice at about 330 PPI.
Everything else you said is just an attempt to justify your purchase as "better" than an iPhone ....

 

[pdqgp]

It's all right, all the studies say that people who use iPhones use it more than people who use Android phones so I guess when my eyesight goes, I'll have loads of friends ie. Apple consumers whose eyesight went before.

I'll be thinking about this fact during the WWDC when Timmy mentions the amount of hours that iOS users spend looking at Apple products.

Perhaps instead of buying into all the hype around PPI and screens you should consider the impact of it on more than just your pleasure sensors. But I'm not sure you're that well rounded yet. I think that's what people here call Sheeple. Enjoy WWDC and of course ARMD when it finally catches up with you.

 

[Max(IT)]

I don't see blur. The point of the example was to show what I'm seeing since some are calling me a liar. I was calling it "seeing pixels" but what I see is aliasing around text. It shouldn't be a surprise that the more pixels on a screen and the smaller they are, the less aliasing there will be around text.

In the phone app, for example, I can see aliasing around every single letter. It looks jagged, not blurry.

Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread how you can see the aliasing around the empty circles in the signal strength indicator. Again, the empty circles have jagged edges.

None of this is a big deal, and most people won't see it, but the fact remains that when viewing the Nexus 5, text looks sharper. I don't see any signs of aliasing even at the closest distance I can still focus on the screen.

If I move the iPhone a little further away from my face, I don't see any of those things either. (11 inches is the maximum distance I can notice aliasing, and the distance I normally hold my phone at.)

My point is that the iPhone at 326 ppi has not reached a point that you can't see pixels at all. The Nexus 5 has.

At 11" you can't see aliasing on a 330 PPI display .... and since I have a rather perfect visus, I have difficulties to believe you can see something I can't.

 

[gotluck]

At 11" you can't see aliasing on a 330 PPI display .... and since I have a rather perfect visus, I have difficulties to believe you can see something I can't.

well, you also don't want to see it.. the mind is a powerful thing

 

[XVentura]

Coming from an ophthalmologist who's staring at a computer screen, that's rich.

Anyway, just out of curiosity, if a lower pixel dense display was placed next to a higher pixel dense display at very low brightness, would you think that people would have better viewing on the higher pixel dense display or not? If you do, and I think it's quite obvious, therefore, having a clearer display allows people to lower the brightness of the screen, therefore lowering the negative consequences of viewing these types of displays.

 

[Max(IT)]

well, you also don't want to see it.. the mind is a powerful thing

I'm surely not going to ruin my eyes to find pixels on a perfectly clear display, you can bet on that.
I skipped the iPad Mini (1st gen) because I hate aliasing and pixelation, but when I see people trying to bash an Apple product based on something completely wrong and false, I can't stand.
As you can see, my smaller tablet is a Nexus 7, not an Apple device, and I like the Nexus more than Retina Mini (and I like also to have a Nexus device in my home, being an enthusiastic user). But I'm not going to write about how many pixels I can see on my iPad Air, and it has a much lower pixel density (about 270 PPI).
I have better things to do with my devices than searching for pixels staring at them from 6"

----------

So by your theory unless someone else brings up a subject that's directly relavant it's not relavant to anyone? Nice.

The issue at hand is whether higher PPI counts are beneficial. You can argue all day that they are warranted and we need more and more, and I'll gladly argue that you need to be careful what you wish for because the use of all those fine details higher resolutions present are doing you harm.



It's relavant because high PPI and the desire/need for you and others to view devices closer and closer because you have the ability to do so and wish to not see pixels when doing so is causing more damange to your vision than it would if you would simply move the device further away and not be so concerned with the pixels visibility or resolution.

Again, do as you wish. It's your vision. Wish for 4k+ displays so you can view them up close without pixels being visible and do so more and more as the displays become more "desirable" to view. The facts stand that you won't maintain that vision for as long as others who view them further away; you're actually doing more harm to your eyes by viewing devices so close and intensly.

Good luck to you.

Fortunately I think that normal user outside of this thread want higher PPI just to enjoy their device, and not to look closer at them trying hard to find pixels

I'm sure Apple will raise pixel density on their future devices, because manufacturers can now produce them. But as you said, that has nothing to do with the fact we were arguing about: a 330 PPI display has enough density to be considered "pixel free" during normal usage.

 

[pdqgp]

Coming from an ophthalmologist who's staring at a computer screen, that's rich.

One who is smart enought to ear special lenses which contain ocular lens pigment combined with melanin and filter 100% of all blue light between 400-500nm. You have no clue man.....

Anyway, just out of curiosity, if a lower pixel dense display was placed next to a higher pixel dense display at very low brightness, would you think that people would have better viewing on the higher pixel dense display or not?

Define better. High PPI yields more data points and thus more detail. If seeing that detail is necessary then it could be defined as better or in the case of a movie, more visually pleasing. However, in terms of visual acuity for reading text or other items where more detail isn't necessary then it's not neccesarily better but rather overkill.

If you do, and I think it's quite obvious, therefore, having a clearer display allows people to lower the brightness of the screen, therefore lowering the negative consequences of viewing these types of displays.

People don't lower the brightness of the screen in everyday use. The newer screens all tout being "brighter" and people soak it up just like they do with being able to play music louder.

It's no different than noise cancelling headphones. My partner is an ENT and medically proven studies show that people turn the volume up on headphones to damaging levels regardless if they are using noise reduction or non noise reduction ear buds. People like to "immerse" themselves in sound and sights and like you don't consider the impacts.

----------

I'm sure Apple will raise pixel density on their future devices, because manufacturers can now produce them. But as you said, that has nothing to do with the fact we were arguing about: a 330 PPI display has enough density to be considered "pixel free" during normal usage.

of course they will. People are so ignorant about technology that they buy into more pixels when the benefit is marginal. But hey, such things sell well even to people who can't see the difference. Many of whom aren't educated enough on vision to know what they don't know.

funny thing is I see a lot of people who buy over the counter reading glasses and have ended up causing themselves more harm then good because they buy too strong of an add power. Sure they will see more details more easily, but they are accelerating the weakening of their eye muscles that has led them to use said readers to begin with! No different here...people fail to see the consequences. They think more is better. But what do I know.....

 

[Max(IT)]

One who is smart enought to ear special lenses which contain ocular lens pigment combined with melanin and filter 100% of all blue light between 400-500nm. You have no clue man.....



Define better. High PPI yields more data points and thus more detail. If seeing that detail is necessary then it could be defined as better or in the case of a movie, more visually pleasing. However, in terms of visual acuity for reading text or other items where more detail isn't necessary then it's not neccesarily better but rather overkill.



People don't lower the brightness of the screen in everyday use. The newer screens all tout being "brighter" and people soak it up just like they do with being able to play music louder.

It's no different than noise cancelling headphones. My partner is an ENT and medically proven studies show that people turn the volume up on headphones to damaging levels regardless if they are using noise reduction or non noise reduction ear buds. People like to "immerse" themselves in sound and sights and like you don't consider the impacts.

Now you are scaring me ....
Do you have any advice for someone using smartphones and tablets for many hours a day ?
I usually manually set the brightness to a lower level than automatic.

 

[pdqgp]

Now you are scaring me ....
Do you have any advice for someone using smartphones and tablets for many hours a day ?
I usually manually set the brightness to a lower level than automatic.

Taking this to PM.

 

[XVentura]

Sure but my point was could, not that people do. Having a clearer display has the type of benefits that the people in this thread have mentioned. The negative consequences are the same for lower pixel dense displays as well as higher pixel dense display but obviously the lower pixel dense displays don't offer the same benefits. I don't see how any of this is anything but obvious at this point.

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

At 11" you can't see aliasing on a 330 PPI display .... and since I have a rather perfect visus, I have difficulties to believe you can see something I can't.

Well, you'll believe what you want to. I just stated what I can see, and I've read others who can see what I see as well, so I know I'm not alone. Like I said, it isn't a big deal, but it's there. I never even noticed it until I saw the Nexus 5 display and realized how the aliasing completely goes away with higher PPI. Text on the iPhone just doesn't look as sharp as the Nexus 5 because of it.

I can also tell that the Galaxy S4/S5 still uses a Pentile layout and doesn't look as sharp as the Nexus 5 when viewing text. Most people don't believe me on that either, but there are others, like Erica Griffin, who can see it as well. Again, not a big deal, and not something that most people can see, but it's there.

I've been arguing with people for years who said that Pentile displays look just as sharp as LCDs. They said the same thing as you -- they didn't believe that I could see a difference because they couldn't. Not everyone has perfect vision, and I don't believe that you do if you can't see any aliasing at all, especially around the strength indicator circles in the status bar.

...but when I see people trying to bash an Apple product based on something completely wrong and false, I can't stand.

I'm not bashing the iPhone. I love my iPhone 5S. It has a beautiful display, but that doesn't change the fact that I can see aliasing in some places while I can't see any at all on the Nexus 5.

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Define better. High PPI yields more data points and thus more detail. If seeing that detail is necessary then it could be defined as better or in the case of a movie, more visually pleasing. However, in terms of visual acuity for reading text or other items where more detail isn't necessary then it's not neccesarily better but rather overkill.

I don't know anything about eye health, but I don't doubt your concerns. I've been responding to people who say that the iPhone screen has already passed the point that no human eye could notice a difference in a higher resolution, and it just isn't true. Printed magazines look much better than the iPhone screen so there is no way someone can claim that text clarity can't be improved with a higher PPI. In fact, the clarity of text would be of more benefit from a higher PPI than movie clarity would.

On the iPhone, at the default system font size, letters like O look aliased to me. I see jaggies all of the way around the letter. In the letter M I see the aliasing around the diagonal lines. They look jagged and not smooth. In the letter D I see aliasing along the curve of the D. In the keypad screen, all of the numbers are aliased. The edges of the 0 and 5 look especially jagged. I'm not straining to see these things. They stand out to me in normal use.

Doctor, maybe you can explain why some of us are able to see small details like that when others can't. I don't understand why I can see these things when someone else can't, but I do see them.

Edit: I just measured, and for numbers in the keypad in the Phone app, I can see aliasing along the numbers until I'm 16 inches away from the screen.

 

[Max(IT)]

Well, you'll believe what you want to. I just stated what I can see, and I've read others who can see what I see as well, so I know I'm not alone. Like I said, it isn't a big deal, but it's there. I never even noticed it until I saw the Nexus 5 display and realized how the aliasing completely goes away with higher PPI. Text on the iPhone just doesn't look as sharp as the Nexus 5 because of it.

I can also tell that the Galaxy S4/S5 still uses a Pentile layout and doesn't look as sharp as the Nexus 5 when viewing text. Most people don't believe me on that either, but there are others, like Erica Griffin, who can see it as well. Again, not a big deal, and not something that most people can see, but it's there.

I've been arguing with people for years who said that Pentile displays look just as sharp as LCDs. They said the same thing as you -- they didn't believe that I could see a difference because they couldn't. Not everyone has perfect vision, and I don't believe that you do if you can't see any aliasing at all, especially around the strength indicator circles in the status bar.



I'm not bashing the iPhone. I love my iPhone 5S. It has a beautiful display, but that doesn't change the fact that I can see aliasing in some places while I can't see any at all on the Nexus 5.

Mate, I'm serious and I don't want to be rude with you. Are you seriously saying me you can see PenTile matrix on a s5 display ???
Do you realize that it is 430 PPI display and you need a microscope to see that matrix ?

----------

I don't know anything about eye health, but I don't doubt your concerns. I've been responding to people who say that the iPhone screen has already passed the point that no human eye could notice a difference in a higher resolution, and it just isn't true. Printed magazines look much better than the iPhone screen so there is no way someone can claim that text clarity can't be improved with a higher PPI. In fact, the clarity of text would be of more benefit from a higher PPI than movie clarity would.

On the iPhone, at the default system font size, letters like O look aliased to me. I see jaggies all of the way around the letter. In the letter M I see the aliasing around the diagonal lines. They look jagged and not smooth. In the letter D I see aliasing along the curve of the D. In the keypad screen, all of the numbers are aliased. The edges of the 0 and 5 look especially jagged. I'm not straining to see these things. They stand out to me in normal use.

Doctor, maybe you can explain why some of us are able to see small details like that when others can't. I don't understand why I can see these things when someone else can't, but I do see them.

I'm looking at the M and D on my air, that has lower PPI than my iPhone, and I can't see any aliasing ....

 

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Mate, I'm serious and I don't want to be rude with you. Are you seriously saying me you can see PenTile matrix on a s5 display ???
Do you realize that it is 430 PPI display and you need a microscope to see that matrix ?

The effective PPI of the S5 is lower than the advertised PPI because of it's subpixel layout. On the S5 text doesn't look as smooth as it does on a 1080p LCD. I can't see pixels, but I can tell it isn't as sharp.

The effective PPI of the S4 was 312 PPI for text because of the subpixel layout. Since the S5 screen is larger, it will be lower than that. That explains why text doesn't look as sharp on the S5.

 

[Fanaticalism]

Where did I say Apple and other manufacturers wouldn't increase pixel density? Not sure I follow your point of such a silly challenge. It's no different than we as a society know Nicotine is a harmful toxin yet we continue to develop ways to put such a toxin into our bodies in creative and entertaining ways.

I will however put big money on the line that I or any doctor can take a retinal image on you and anyone viewing an LCD screen for more than 1hr per day and show you the inflamation on your retinal pigmented epithelium (RPE) as a result of blue light exposure from these devices. These lesions will consist clumping of melanosomes and some macrophage invasion with engulfment of melanosomes which produce hypopigmentation of the RPE. AKA in laymans terms a sunburn on your eye.

Since melanin, a common pigment component present in the RPE, strongly absorbs blue light, you should be concerned that the retina is subject to actinic injury from this blue light including gradual opacification.

Go ahead and hope for higher pixel counts. In the end it will do you no good when your continued focus on viewing said screens up close to enjoy such silky smooth images is moot because you're damanging your vision. The last laugh will be on you and that's not my opinion, it's a medical fact.

You're making me not want to look at my phone

 

[gotluck]

You're making me not want to look at my phone

well, on the bright side - essentially everything we do is, at least, slowly killing us

pdqgp, a penny for your thoughts on f.lux? should we just have it enabled always, like during the daytime too?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don't see blur. The point of the example was to show what I'm seeing since some are calling me a liar. I was calling it "seeing pixels" but what I see is aliasing around text. It shouldn't be a surprise that the more pixels on a screen and the smaller they are, the less aliasing there will be around text.

In the phone app, for example, I can see aliasing around every single letter. It looks jagged, not blurry.

Someone else mentioned it earlier in the thread how you can see the aliasing around the empty circles in the signal strength indicator. Again, the empty circles have jagged edges.

None of this is a big deal, and most people won't see it, but the fact remains that when viewing the Nexus 5, text looks sharper. I don't see any signs of aliasing even at the closest distance I can still focus on the screen.

If I move the iPhone a little further away from my face, I don't see any of those things either. (11 inches is the maximum distance I can notice aliasing, and the distance I normally hold my phone at.)

My point is that the iPhone at 326 ppi has not reached a point that you can't see pixels at all. The Nexus 5 has.

I think this really highlights that this issue is not an issue the vast majority of people find fault with. I appreciate you may have noticed it, but if you asked the average iPhone user on the street, I doubt they have even thought of it.

I don't doubt the Nexus 5 has a screen that is better on paper than the one presently on the iPhone, however there are things the iPhone does better than the Nexus and presumably vice versa that are more important to a consumers purchasing preferences. If you put them side by side, I would likely pick the iPhone because I prefer the OS. I can forgive some of the 'lack of features' or lesser pixel density for a phone that better suits my needs. Its not always about processing power, or super crisp displays for me. I don't have an issue with my 18 month old iPhone 5 as yet and with my confirmed good eyesight, I don't notice the same things as some

 

[steathymonkey]

This post is a joke right?

Samsung makes garbage phones filled with bloatware. The average Samsung Android phone comes with Google software (Understandable), Samsung bloatware, and carrier bloatware. Most of it is useless garbage! Lolz! I love how some carriers are adding in uninstall-able security software.

I love when I go into a store and see the sale associate trying to convince a customer that the Android devices are the best option (They usually drag the customer over to Samasung devices). They do this because they make more money and have inside deals with the manufacture. And phone carriers love to con uneducated customers into buying Android phones do to, money made, manufacture deals, control, etc

Most of the people I know with Androids phones only go with or went with Android do to the cost. One of the reasons I went with Android smart phones first was do to the cost, even thought about purchasing the Nexus 5 32gb do to it being almost half the cost of the iPhone 5 64gb. I see a lot of low-end Android phones through out Boston, but very few high end ones. I also, see a lot of Apple iPhones and just about every tablet is either an iPad or Kindle.

My opinion: Any other Android experience other than the Google only Android experience is garbage. Hopefully Google sees the errors of its ways, takes control of Android, and stops these manufactures and carriers from altering Android and adding uninstall-able bloatware before it’s too late!

This post should not be taking as an “I hate all Samsung stuff” because I do not. Samsung's SSDs are topnotch and some of Samsung's TVs are topnotch. And Samsung has some of the best fabs in the world ranking right up with Intel. But there current mobile devices are epic garbage.

Apple iPhone/iPad (Does Not Include the iPad Mini Retina and iPad Air)> Poop > iPad Mini Retina and iPad Air > Samsung Phones/Tablets.

(All information and opinions are relevant at the time of this posting and may change at a future date/time)

 

[Black Magic]

Taking this to PM.

Shoot me a PM too please!

 

[AppleScruff1]

This post is a joke right?

Samsung makes garbage phones filled with bloatware. The average Samsung Android phone comes with Google software (Understandable), Samsung bloatware, and carrier bloatware. Most of it is useless garbage! Lolz! I love how some carriers are adding in uninstall-able security software.

I love when I go into a store and see the sale associate trying to convince a customer that the Android devices are the best option (They usually drag the customer over to Samasung devices). They do this because they make more money and have inside deals with the manufacture. And phone carriers love to con uneducated customers into buying Android phones do to, money made, manufacture deals, control, etc

Most of the people I know with Androids phones only go with or went with Android do to the cost. One of the reasons I went with Android smart phones first was do to the cost, even thought about purchasing the Nexus 5 32gb do to it being almost half the cost of the iPhone 5 64gb. I see a lot of low-end Android phones through out Boston, but very few high end ones. I also, see a lot of Apple iPhones and just about every tablet is either an iPad or Kindle.

My opinion: Any other Android experience other than the Google only Android experience is garbage. Hopefully Google sees the errors of its ways, takes control of Android, and stops these manufactures and carriers from altering Android and adding uninstall-able bloatware before it’s too late!

This post should not be taking as an “I hate all Samsung stuff” because I do not. Samsung's SSDs are topnotch and some of Samsung's TVs are topnotch. And Samsung has some of the best fabs in the world ranking right up with Intel. But there current mobile devices are epic garbage.

Apple iPhone/iPad (Does Not Include the iPad Mini Retina and iPad Air)> Poop > iPad Mini Retina and iPad Air > Samsung Phones/Tablets.

(All information and opinions are relevant at the time of this posting and may change at a future date/time)

If you're in the US, then top of the line Android phones cost the same as the iPhone, contract or no contract. The Nexus is very inexpensive for a higher end phone, but it sells in small numbers compared to the Note 3 and Galaxy series. For flagship phones in the US, I don't see what cost has to do with it.

 

[Black Magic]

If you're in the US, then top of the line Android phones cost the same as the iPhone, contract or no contract. The Nexus is very inexpensive for a higher end phone, but it sells in small numbers compared to the Note 3 and Galaxy series. For flagship phones in the US, I don't see what cost has to do with it.

This is coming from a person who thinks Apple will copy Samsung and make the next iPhone water resistant. That's rich!

 

[AppleScruff1]

This is coming from a person who thinks Apple will copy Samsung and make the next iPhone water resistant. That's rich!

I never claimed that Apple would make a water resistant iPhone. I disputed your statement where you stated as fact that they never would. And also you claimed that they would never make a higher resolution display. Very bold claims, no? It's all here in black and white. And you accused me of twisting what you said. Priceless.

 

[taptic]

Apple are great

Samsung are great

Why does it need to be who's better? There is no right or wrong answer. It's what's better for Your needs!! That's what it comes to

Whaaaaaaaaa....?

Is there really such a point where you can safely stand between both sides of this?! I thought you had to be fighting one or the other with all your might until you meet your grave!

 

[steathymonkey]

If you're in the US, then top of the line Android phones cost the same as the iPhone, contract or no contract. The Nexus is very inexpensive for a higher end phone, but it sells in small numbers compared to the Note 3 and Galaxy series. For flagship phones in the US, I don't see what cost has to do with it.

Cost has a lot to do with it as does profit margins for sellers. Do some research and you will find that the profit margins for retailers such as Best Buy is much higher on Samsung phones. The same goes for major carriers. Carriers actually save money. They prefer to have you buy a Samsung phone or any android phone on contract over an iPhone. And all the major carriers sales margins/savings are higher on non-Apple iPhone sales.

I mention the Nexus 5 because I believe it is the only true out of the box Android experience worth getting for any mainstream person looking into an Android phone. Some of the other manufactures may have great hardware specs, but they trash the Android experience with crapware.

Just about every other manufacture alters the Android OS experience and adds a boatload of uninstall-able crapware. And they let the carriers do the same.

The Samsung Android experience reminds me of the low-end prebuilt non-business series HP, Acer, Sony, Dell, Asus laptop/desktop experience. Enough crapware to make the product experience a worthless piece of crap lag fest. In Samsung case there is far more uninstall-able crapware loaded into there phones. Too many hands in one pot

 

[taptic]

In Samsung case there is far more uninstall-able crapware loaded into there phones. Too many hands in one pot

Just the other day I had repaired a Galaxy S3 and was resetting it for resale and I realized afterwards that there were about 60 pre-installed apps... I think the iPhone has about a third of that. Personally I wouldn't enjoy having so much storage given to things I didn't choose to put on there. Doesn't the GS5 have 8gb dedicated to the OS or something already?