Have I Experienced a Kernal Panic?? >MBP Now Cannot Boot Up. *UPDATED

[Grumpus]

Or, thinking about it further, should I pull out the SSD, get an enclosure / cable etc and just see if it will mount on my wife's 2012 MBP (the one I'm tying on now) it is also running Sierra and see if I can drag files from it??

As I mentioned before, this SATA drive adapter is quite useful, without the fiddling involved with an enclosure. A little more expensive in your part of the world, but not too bad. And this Crucial SSD is likewise not very dear. Of course, it's easy for me to spend another man's money...

 

[Grumpus]

Well, sure, this "indicates" something:
That the MBP itself is fine, and that the SSD that was in it is not

I disagree. While I think it's more likely that the OP has a bad drive, USB and SATA use entirely different controllers, so it has NOT been demonstrated that the drive is bad. Until it's known for certain whether the drive is bad, it's foolish to put another drive containing a good CCC backup into the machine.

 

[Scoot65]

BIG PROGRESS!

I pulled out the internal SSD and put it into the external enclosure (Sabrent SATA to USB) that one of my CCC bootable cloned drives was installed into.

Plugged it into my wife's mid 2012 MBP and it mounted as a regular hard drive on the destop. It appears that ALL of the data is accessable, all documents, desktop items, music, photos etc etc

I was able to see and open all the folders etc so it looks like the SSD is actually working OK with regard to accessing all the data, but not the booting up, well at least not on my MBP.

I've copied the contents of the MBP's SSD to a another external storage hard drive. Everything seems to have copied over correctly.

At the very beginning, before the copy started, I got a message that one or more files in the Users folder could not be copied because they were "in use" or similar words. I had to click Continue to get the copy process to start.

So, that's where I am at the moment........

 

[Grumpus]

BIG PROGRESS!

Good news! Can you try connecting the drive via USB to your laptop and booting? Power down, connect the drive, hold down the option key, press the power button. I'm very interested to know if it'll boot up ok via USB.

 

[Grumpus]

Also, with the drive attached via USB to your wife's computer, it wouldn't hurt to start Disk Utility and run First Aid on the drive. It'll be in the "external" section. Sorry, should've mentioned that before, but I'm just getting up and insufficiently caffeinated

 

[Scoot65]

Goodmorning Grumpus!

I've ran DU as you suggest and we have a little more progress, I think.

When ran First Aid on the external volume "Macintosh SSD" First Aid did find a issue and then corrected it.

I then ran First Aid on the external volume named Sabrent Media (first item on the external list on the left) it gave a message that problems were found with the partion map which might prevent booting and to run First Aid from Recovery.

So, it looks like at least one step forward!

Should I connect my Sierra Installer USB stick again and run First Aid in Rocovery?
This would be holding OPTION key and then powering up, right?

Or should I put the SSD back into my own MBP to see what happens?

BTW this is all currently getting done on my wife's MBP.

 

[Grumpus]

Good! I hope you've been able to save most of your files with the drive connected to your wife's computer.

Yes, I would try running First Aid from Recovery. If your wife's MBP is running Sierra or later, you should be able to use that - with it powered off and the "problem" drive disconnected, hold down the command and R buttons, then push the power button to power on. It should boot up into recovery mode. Start Disk Utility, then connect the problem drive and wait for it to be recognized. Then cross your fingers and run First Aid.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

BE AWARE that when you're using your wife's MBP and YOUR drive, permissions problems could arise because the two accounts (your wife's and YOURS) are "different" as far as the Mac OS is concerned. Just something to keep in mind.

Having said that...
You're making progress, but I sense you STILL are unsure about how to the MBP "up and running" again with your [most recent] data on it.

I can give you the steps to fix that, guaranteed (yes, I'm that confident).

You said you copied the data from the [bad] SSD to another drive.
WHAT did you use to "copy" it?
Did you just copy and drag the folders/files over?
Or... did you use CCC?

CCC would be "the right way" to do it, because now you can use Setup (migration) Assistant to restore it later on. SA will "recognize" a CCC (or time machine) backup, but MAY NOT recognize folders/files "just copied by hand" to another drive.

Here are steps you can take using your wife's MBP:

First, let's do some testing on the [bad] SSD (in the external enclosure).
Boot the wife's MBP.
Connect the [bad] SSD.
Does its icon mount on the desktop?
Good. DON'T "open" it yet.

Click on the SSD icon ONE time to select it.
Now, bring up "get info" on the drive (you can just type command-i).
At the bottom of get info, there's a lock icon. Click on it.
Enter YOUR WIFE's administrative password (your on HER Mac, right?).
Put a checkmark into "ignore ownership on this volume".
Close Get Info.

Now, select just one file on your wife's Mac.
ANY file, this doesn't matter.
Something on the desktop, perhaps.
What you want to TRY is to COPY THAT FILE to the [bad] SSD.
Does it "copy over" without problems?
Or does something go wrong?

If it copies over OK, fine.
Let us know if it won't.

WHY I'm asking you to do this test:
We want to be sure that the SSD has not "failed into read-only mode" (as I explained in an earlier reply to you).
Some SSDs can fail this way -- they will go into a kind of "read only mode" and you can never write to them again.

IF you can still copy files to the drive, that means that it can probably be erased and "rebuilt from the ground up".

Can you do this test and get back to us?

If that works, I suggest THE NEXT THING you do is to use CCC to create a "fresh and up to date" cloned backup of the SSD to another drive, so you have that "ready to use" as we rebuild the SSD into a workable drive once more.

(that's all for now, so do the test and get back to us)

 

[Scoot65]

Yes, I was able to save all of the contents of the SSD to my external desktop hard drive. So that pressure is off me. Lesson learned regarding the importance of regularly backing up!!!

Well, this is intersting:-

I ran First Aid from Recovery and got the same reports as in the pics in my most recent post.

HOWEVER....

I also did as you suggested and connected the problematic SSD to my own laptop externally (via USB) and booted up.
It booted as normal, without any obvious problem and I'm up and running on my own laptop. Everything is as it was before the kernal panic problem. In fact I'm actually typing this post on my own machine!!

Can I now run CCC to make an updated clone now that the SSD is booted and running (albeit it's externally via USB) or is the problem I have still software related to the SSD?

I'd hate make an updated clone only to ensure that I've cloned the issue onto my two bootable backup drives.

Fishrrman thanks for the detailed reply.
I've quickly read it but thought I'd post this update. Regarding copying the data, it was only dragging / dropping the 4 User, App, Library etc folders.

Here's a pic if the info of the SSD when I open the padlock using my admin password...

 

[Grumpus]

Well, this is both encouraging and confusing! While booted up via USB, can you successfully run First Aid on the drive, or does it emit the same error message?

I share your concern that a CCC backup would copy whatever the problem is. But, if you can run CCC to back up the drive while it's attached via USB, then you should be able to re-install the OS. Migration Assistant should run during setup, and I believe it'll be able to read from the CCC backup to restore (only) your files and settings.

Only you can decide, but after a successful CCC backup, the first thing I would do would be to attach the bad drive to your wife's computer and use Disk Utility to erase it. Erase the actual device, if you can, not just the existing HFS partition. After successfully erasing, run First Aid as before, just to make sure the drive is working properly. If it looks ok, put the drive back into your laptop, then boot from your Sierra installer USB and go through the installation. The drive will be already erased, so perhaps you can skip that. When it finally runs Migration Assistant during the setup, attach your CCC drive and let MA recover your files and settings.

All of the above with fingers firmly crossed, of course. It's still not clear whether the problem is "just" with the drive, or if the disk controller is involved. But we live in hope, and the drive is the more likely culprit. Sorry for so much text, I hope it's clear.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"I also did as you suggested and connected the problematic SSD to my own laptop externally (via USB) and booted up.
It booted as normal, without any obvious problem and I'm up and running on my own laptop. Everything is as it was before the kernal panic problem. In fact I'm actually typing this post on my own machine!!"

Hmm.... very interesting.

If it is back to booting/running "normally" via the external connection, then...

AHEM....STOP RIGHT NOW!
Just realized something, hadn't even considered beforehand (getting old).
This is a 2012 MacBook Pro 13", is that right?

IT'S PROBABLY THE DRIVE RIBBON CABLE that's bad -- NOT "the drive itself".

The 2012 MBP 13" models are notorious for this problem.
The ribbon cable starts "getting flaky".
When that happens, proper "communications" between the drive and the motherboard are interrupted.
(Apple even had a free replacement program for this problem, but of course it's over now)

TO THE USER, this "looks like a bad drive".
Computer won't boot, or has random crashes and hangs when running.
One would think it's the drive...
But it's really just the ribbon cable.

My prediction has changed:
Replace the ribbon cable to the motherboard, and you'll be fine again.
WHY I changed it:
Because the drive seems fine when booting externally (and ribbon cable is "removed from the equation".

Go to ifixit.com to get the ribbon cable part number.
You can either order it from them, or buy from elsewhere online.

A simple (and cheap) fix.

Don't do anything else until you try this!

(Why didn't I think of this at the beginning?)

 

[Grumpus]

I don't see any reason not to take Fishrrman's advice re the ribbon cable, if you're willing to wait.

Here's the iFixit guide for replacing the ribbon cable and it includes a link to the cable. It's pricey, but less than a new computer.

 

[Scoot65]

As alaways, thanks for your replies.

Actually, I'm also aware of the ribbon cable issues, in fact I changed the cable about threee years ago or so. I'll get another one as they're not expensive... and an fairly easy fix.

Another interesting little issue just happended, I was going between FireFox and Safari and the laptop froze, got the eternal spinning beachball. This reminded me that I was doing something similar when the innitial kernal panic issue happened, but now this when SSD is connected externally via USB and no kernal panic.

Also I noticed that the light on the external drive went out immediately at the same time. I thought that the SSD drive had died.

I've restarted / rebooted and it's all appers to be running fine.

Not sure whether to do a CCC clone on one of my backup drives as least then I'll have the latest data and in anycase, I've always got the second backup with the older cloned data... OR saying as I know that the SSD will boot externernally via USB just to wait until a replacement ribbon arrives and then do the CCC backup. Then I'll know that I'm not coping over any naughty problems....... Hmm

 

[Grumpus]

Maybe it's haunted 👻 Anyway, sounds like you're getting closer to solving it.

 

[Scoot65]

I'm going to order the hard drive ribbon cable and await delivery. I'll post an update once I've installed it and installed the SSD back into the laptop with the new ribbon cable. Hopefully that will fix it!

It certainly feels like Fishrrman and Grumpus have been on a heck of a journey with me!!

It'll probably be mid / late next week before I have an update.

Thanks again!

 

[Fishrrman]

You might take the ribbon cable out of your MBP, and examine it closely for "wear points".

I recall reading a report here from someone who found wear that looked like it was rubbing against something (while inside the MBP) -- user put some tape on it, put it back in, and it was OK afterwards.

I'd still put a new cable in there. But if you're already "on the 2nd cable", and it shows a wear spot on the outside... you might add a piece of tape over that location with the hope of reducing wear in the future.

Just a thought...

 

[Scoot65]

You might take the ribbon cable out of your MBP, and examine it closely for "wear points".

I recall reading a report here from someone who found wear that looked like it was rubbing against something (while inside the MBP) -- user put some tape on it, put it back in, and it was OK afterwards.

I'd still put a new cable in there. But if you're already "on the 2nd cable", and it shows a wear spot on the outside... you might add a piece of tape over that location with the hope of reducing wear in the future.

Just a thought...

Good idea, I'll give it a thorough inspection when I remove it.

I've ordered the ribbon cable from iFixit. Ebay had some for less than £10 but I thought that in this case, I'd rather have a quality part rather than one of unknown quality. I didn't want to still have issues and be wondering if a cheapo part was flaky out of the packet. At least with a quality item this should eliminate questions regarding the HDD cable.


Once it's delivered and fitted, I'll give an update.

Currently the SSD is working without any problems as an external (USB) boot drive.

BTW, your previous suggestion regarding new M series laptops hmm, I can see one of the newer airs being on the horizon at some point..... maybe, just maybe, it's getting time to think about upgrading.

Thanks again.

 

[Scoot65]

The replacement hard drive ribbon cable arrived today.

I've installed it (I put electrical tape on the vulnerable areas to reduce risk of rubbing / scuffing in the future) and refitted the internal SSD and the laptop booted up without issues and has been running fine!

I inspected the old ribbon cable for signs of scuffing / rubbing, I couldn't see any visible damage.

I booted from my USB installer and ran Disk Utility First Aid on Samsung SSD 860 EVO and it gave a message that "First Aid found a corruption that needs to be repaired. Run First Aid from Recovery......problems were found with the partion map which might prevent booting"

I don't know what's throwing this error up each time Fist Aid is ran. I suppose that not having a reason to run First Aid it could have been there, undiscovered for quite some time.

First Aid on Macintosh SSD was fine, no problems identified


I have two CCC bootable backup HDDs and I've used one to make an up to date clone of the current internal SSD. I'm a little bit concerned about that corruption message in that I may have cloned that too. I thought that if it was a major problem I could always wipe that particular cloned drive and reclone it if / when the corruption is identified / fixed.

I also checked and the clone HDD is bootable without any problems.


So, all seems to be back to working well, booting up etc (apart from the First Aid corruption message).......

 

[Grumpus]

Didn't the drive pass the First Aid checks with no uncorrected errors when it was connected via USB? If not, then I would have trouble trusting my data to it. Since the problem involves the partition map, you might have to erase the drive to correct the error (if it can be corrected).

If it was me, I'd put a known-good (new?) drive into the computer, boot from a USB installer, erase the known-good drive and try to do an install. If that succeeds and the new drive passes the First Aid checks, then I'd be a lot more confident this isn't a problem with the computer. You should be able to recover your data and settings from the "problem" drive or one of your CCC backups using Migration Assistant.

 

[Grumpus]

Also (now that I'm more awake) you could boot from a USB installer, erase the problem drive in-situ, reinstall and recover files and settings from your clone using MA. If the partition table was damaged because of the cable, I would think that'd sort things.

 

[Scoot65]

Yes, back in post no.31 when I ran First Aid when the SSD was in an external enclosure, the external volume "Macintosh SSD" First Aid did find a issue and then corrected it.

When I ran First Aid on the SSD's Brand name it came back with Samsung SSD 860 EVO "First Aid found a corruption that needs to be repaired. Run First Aid from Recovery......problems were found with the partion map which might prevent booting"

Just now, I've booted from an external HDD and ran First Aid on the now internal SSD and:-

When I select / highlight "Macintosh SSD" > Passed First Aid, no problems.

When I select / highlight "Samsung SSD 860 EVO" > First Aid reports "First Aid found a corruption that needs to be repaired. Run First Aid from Recovery......problems were found with the partion map which might prevent booting"

So, in one aspect the SSD passes First Aid and in another aspect, it throws an error, depending upon which 'name' I highlight.

I've posted pics to show what I'm seeing.

As I've mentioned previoiusly, since replacing the cable and re-installed the SSD internally, It's booting, awakening from sleep, restarting all fine without problems.

I'll keep your suggestion in your post no. 45 though.

Many Thanks.

 

[Fishrrman]

I wouldn't worry about the First Aid warnings and fixes.
If they "went through" OK, and if the backups seem good, just use it.

Sounds like it was the ribbon cable all along.

But something to keep in mind:
At 12 years old, how much more time are you going to get out of it?
Might be time to at least start thinking about a replacement.
If not the m4's... then maybe the m5's or m6's...

 

[Scoot65]

I wouldn't worry about the First Aid warnings and fixes.
If they "went through" OK, and if the backups seem good, just use it.

Sounds like it was the ribbon cable all along.

But something to keep in mind:
At 12 years old, how much more time are you going to get out of it?
Might be time to at least start thinking about a replacement.
If not the m4's... then maybe the m5's or m6's...

Well, it does seem to be working OK now. No obvious issues or glitches when in use and the bootable backup seems the same. I'll make sure I backup regularly! ................I'll just nurse it along for the time being.

I agree, you're right in that at 12 years old, how much longer can I squeeze out of it and what will the reliability be like going forwards.

I think I'll be looking into getting one of the newer Airs.

If not the m4's... then maybe the m5's or m6's...

Cheeky! I don't think even I can last out until the M5's / 6's

It just shows that with the older Macs' accessibility , even someone with very basic 'skills' like me can do some rudimentary work on the internals ie HDD, Battery, Memory, Optical Drive.....

Thanks again to you and Grumpus for your help, very much appreciated!

 

[Grumpus]

I wouldn't worry about the First Aid warnings and fixes.
If they "went through" OK, and if the backups seem good, just use it.

I wouldn't trust my own data to a drive with uncorrected errors, but you do you. Unwatching. Good luck.