iPod HD Rentals ONLY for AppleTV

[ftaok]

Since the apple TV requires HDCP for HD rentals, i doubt you'll be able to view them via component.
apple TV is not that expensive, so if you want HD movies without a big bulky HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player, it's a good buy
Too bad you can't buy the movies. Would be cool if aTV could download them and store on time capsule or an external drive.

Where has that been stated?

I seriously doubt that the aTV rentals require the exclusive use of the HDMI port.

Heck, current BluRay and HD-DVD players currently do not have their component ports disabled. Why would the aTV have this restriction?

ft

 

[powerbook911]

Ok, my thoughts are that the standard-definition rentals on Apple TV might also be higher quality?

Cause while you can transfer an Apple TV purchase from Apple TV, to computer, you can't do that with a rental, even standard definition rental, so yeah I really think that even the standard-def versions on Apple TV are better quality.

If you look at the specs of Apple TV, it even lists a 720x480 purchase resolution as a possibility now, seems like what they'd deliver to the Apple TV, if you rent on it and choose standard definition, so everything you rent on apple tv directly will be better quality than iTunes.

It's all a bit silly though. People didn't want to pay $15 for a movie in crappy quality, but I wouldn't mind buying a movie for $15, if the high definition quality.

 

[milo]

Ok, my thoughts are that the standard-definition rentals on Apple TV might also be higher quality?

It sounds like it.

Jobs still describes iTunes downloads as "near DVD" but called SD downloads on aTV "DVD quality". Makes it seem like there are two different SD versions.

 

[ftaok]

It sounds like it.

Jobs still describes iTunes downloads as "near DVD" but called SD downloads on aTV "DVD quality". Makes it seem like there are two different SD versions.

Correct, the aTV has two types of rentals; HD (1280x720) and SD (720x480 anamorphic). iTunes has one type of rental (and purchase); SD (640x480 or less).

My guess is that the iPods can't be updated to handle the higher resolution (or anamorphic) files.

ft

 

[pedz]

The last few posts sound correct, i also noticed his comment about sd being dvd quality. looks like apple tv video is independent across the board for rentals.

Overall i am happy with the proposal and looking forward to the apple tv update. One feature that would be nice though is if i rent a movie in itunes why not let me transfer it to my apple tv? I understand the resolution and piracy issues in the other direction, but what is the harm of letting me move the lower res video from itunes to apple tv. I don't think it is a big because i wouldn't do it often, but if i watch a movie on my iphone now and then during my commute and want to finish watching it at home it would be nice to transfer it to my tv and not have to use my computer. then i can decide mostly rent on the apple tv but use itunes when i think i want to travel with it.

peter

 

[theBB]

All aTVs have component outputs, which do not have HDCP. If the studios were worried about the analog loophole and enforced the copy protection, they would have to disable the component outputs on the aTV when watching the HD movies. There's no mention of that anywhere, so I doubt HDCP is an issue.

AppleTV has HDMI outputs as well. It may not be implementing HDCP, yet, but eventually it can be enabled without customers noticing the difference.

Since the apple TV requires HDCP for HD rentals, i doubt you'll be able to view them via component.

Studios don't mind component outputs, as once converted to analog, people cannot make exact copies and quality inevitably degrades. It is the digital stream that they want to protect.

 

[ftaok]

Studios don't mind component outputs, as once converted to analog, people cannot make exact copies and quality inevitably degrades. It is the digital stream that they want to protect.

I beg to differ. Studios currently reserve the right to be afraid of component outputs. Otherwise, they would not have added the down-rezzing "feature" of HD-DVD and BluRay players. HDCP hasn't been activated yet, but if it does, then the component outputs of HD-DVD and BD players will be limited to 960x540.

As for the aTV, I guess they could activate HDCP in the future and block (or down-res) the component outputs, but I doubt it. The HD rentals can't be that great in quality to begin with.

There is a device that was announced at CES that could change everything. Hauppauge announced a $250 HD-PVR device that can record 1080p off of component inputs in real-time. It's got hardware encoding for h264 at bit rates up to 25 Mbps. Of course, the resultant file won't be as good as the digital original, but I'm guessing that it'll be good enough for many people.

ft

 

[retroneo]

All aTVs have component outputs, which do not have HDCP. If the studios were worried about the analog loophole and enforced the copy protection, they would have to disable the component outputs on the aTV when watching the HD movies. There's no mention of that anywhere, so I doubt HDCP is an issue.ft

ftaok, Studios require HDCP on the digital outputs, not the analog ones. Blu-ray players come with component outputs too remember...

 

[nickane]

I agree that HD video will be most useful with HDTVs, but there are two other scnenarios that affect non-iPod devices.

1. People who have Macs connected to their nice monitors might want to watch HD movies. All Apple monitors are capable of HD and are pretty nice.

2. People who have Macs connected to their HDTVs. To me, limiting iTunes to 640x480 rentals is a slap in the face to the HTMac crowd. Macs are more than capable of playing the 720p files, but because of piracy issues and iPods, Macs are limited to sub-DVD quality files. BOO!

Hear, hear. The mac mini may be limited but it's always made a lot more sense than an appleTV value-for-money-wise. Suddenly, the game changes and we've all gotta shell out the $229 we thought we'd circumvented back when it was $299, only now all we're getting for our troubles is higher-res DLs that the mini is probably more capable of playing than the aTV is.

I imiagine it's to do with the studios, but part of me knows that altho the apple tv apparently has the thinnest margins of any apple product (altho with a 40gb 3.5" HD, I've never understood why...), steve has always preferred ppl to have one more than a mac mini, which costs twice the price, plugged into their telly.

I hope this gets resolved with HDCP somehow, or else I'm not getting either of them and I've been waiting to buy that HTPC Mac Mini for a LONG time.

 

[ftaok]

ftaok, Studios require HDCP on the digital outputs, not the analog ones. Blu-ray players come with component outputs too remember...

I think you missed my point, partly because I used the wrong terminology.

HDCP is one thing and I agree that aTVs have HDCP. What I really meant to say was the current implementation of ICT (Image Constraint Token).

I know that BD and HD-DVD players have component outputs. I was talking more about how Apple will constrain the analog outputs (aka analog loophole) to prevent pirating. I'm sure you won't be able to record via HDMI, but you'll easily be able to record off of components, especially when the affordable devices become available.

Anyways, if the studios start to see lots of pirating off of the analog outputs, I'm sure they'll start down-rezzing analog outputs of all of these devices. No more 1080i or 720p on BD/HD-DVD component outputs. Hello 960x540p.

ft

 

[gkarris]

This is what I was silently afraid of when the iPod Classics were announced. The limitation on the Classic was still 640x480 resolution.

I was kinda hoping that when the HD movies got onto iTunes, that Apple would provide some sort of update for the iPods to up the maximum resolution to 1280x720. I'm sure the iPhone and Touch have enough power to play 720p videos, but the Classic and Nano maybe don't have the power.

Oh well. Curiously, the SD rentals (which are supposed to be available on iTunes as well as aTV) have 720x480 anamorphic resolutions. Perhaps the iPods/iPhones have been updated to handle this resolution.

ft

Why would you want HD on such a microscopic screen?

It's known that you can only tell the difference on HD if the screens are about 40" diagonal and larger...

 

[harcosparky]

Well that sux!!!!

I was looking for HD rentals to watch on my 24" iMac

Now I gotta buy an Apple TV to rent them from Apple????

That explains the sparse selection of movies I see in iTune.

 

[harcosparky]

Why would you want HD on such a microscopic screen?

It's known that you can only tell the difference on HD if the screens are about 40" diagonal and larger...

I can think of one reason .... a title available ONLY in HD closes out everyone from renting it except ATV owners.

I know the 'benefit' of HD won't be available to me on my 24" iMac, but that doesnt mean I wouldn't still enjoy watching the movie.

 

[iphonesrq]

It'll also make pirating them a lot harder.

yeah obviously...apple know this!

 

[harcosparky]

It's all a bit silly though. People didn't want to pay $15 for a movie in crappy quality, but I wouldn't mind buying a movie for $15, if the high definition quality.

Agree here ... I mean why pay Apple $15 for a less than stellar quality movie when you can go to WAL-MART and purchase the same movie on DVD for $9.95. Or why pay Apple $9.99 for a movie that Target has on the shelves for $6.99.

I think Apple is trying to push more Apple TV's with this one.

But on my end Apple is LOSING $$$$$ - I refuse to buy an Apple TV but I would not refuse to rent HD movies from Apple to watch on my 24" iMac IF they would let me !!!!!!!!!!

 

[JAT]

Why would you want HD on such a microscopic screen?

It's known that you can only tell the difference on HD if the screens are about 40" diagonal and larger...

One, I wouldn't want it on my iPod, or any current iPod. But Two, HD is easily discernable far smaller than 40". Far smaller, and would be on iPods too, if they were HD resolution.

To Apple:
Finally, after 22+ years of singing your praises, I'm pissed off. Screwing those who don't buy your Bose-like products is not the way to go. So fine. Screw TV, Screw Apple, Screw your rentals. I still will not be renting or buying anything in video from the Store until it works on my Mac (you've heard of Macs, right Apple?) and is in HD. Join the ***** 21st century already. I was enjoying the ITP updates, and the winner of this show was the Time Capsule in my book. Guess I won't need one of those, either. Since there won't be anything to put on it.

I WILL NEVER BUY AN TV BECAUSE I CAN READ A SPEC SHEET.

My Mac is sitting here, waiting, bored. Sure, it has some audio and gets to surf the net. But it really wants to put some video up on the 90" like the Tivo gets to do.

 

[dan-o-mac]

I don't think it has anything to do with piracy. If that was the case why do they let you rent SD video on your Mac, why would it be ok to rent and possibly pirate SD video, but not HD. This is a lame attempt to boost AppleTV sales. Apple wants you to buy AppleTV, why because they make more money on the hardware.

 

[jaw04005]

You'd need an HDCP capable videocard, AFAIK. Not all Mac's (even current gen? ) have that.

Do we have confirmation that the Apple TV is HDCP-enabled? Because at launch, Apple denied that HDCP would be included.

Even a member of the MPAA acknowledged the Apple TV did not have HDCP:

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/10/apple-tv-device-does.html

Also, Apple is not listed as a certified partner of the HDCP group:

http://www.digital-cp.com/list/

Therefore, as of firmware 1.x HDCP is not enabled. However, I suppose this could change with the Take 2 firmware.

This is unfortunate as HDCP can cause major problems for consumers with older HDTV sets (including those with just non-HDCP DVI inputs).

Other rental devices, such as Microsoft's XBOX 360, do not have HDCP.

Well, it's clearly mentioned in the updated iTunes TOS. However, that may be for future-proofing the device. I would assume it would be up to each individual studio to implement the token constraint flag.

"(xv) HDMI. An HDCP connection is required in order to view movies (purchased or rented) and TV shows transmitted over HDMI."

http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/service.html