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Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
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The Misty Mountains
I usually swim 3 days a week with a minimum of 48 hrs in between. Lately associated with swimming, computer usage, and possibly playing Pokémon Go on my phone (taking over gyms is stressful on your didgets ;)), I've been experiencing some shoulder, upper arm pain that feels more like tendon related versus muscle soreness, possibly arthritis?

Besides the battery of stretches I'm doing, I'm wondering if hot balm is something that actually aids healing or it just provides temporary relief? The info I've read online does not give me high confidence, but at one point I thought balm helped healing because of the heat increasing circulation to the problem area.

Opinions? Thanks!
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,645
52,425
In a van down by the river
I usually swim 3 days a week with a minimum of 48 hrs in between. Lately associated with swimming, computer usage, and possibly playing Pokémon Go on my phone (taking over gyms is stressful on your didgets ;)), I've been experiencing some shoulder, upper arm pain that feels more like tendon related versus muscle soreness, possibly arthritis?

Besides the battery of stretches I'm doing, I'm wondering if hot balm is something that actually aids healing or it just provides temporary relief? The info I've read online does not give me high confidence, but at one point I thought balm helped healing because of the heat increasing circulation to the problem area.

Opinions? Thanks!
A hot balm is temporary relief.

Given the repetitive nature of your exercise with the shoulders, it could be bursitis, tendonitis, arthritis, or ligament strain / partial tear from overuse. Best thing to do is take a week off from swimming, and then ease back into your routine. If the pain returns after resumption of exercise after a week, an MRI is in order.
[doublepost=1499816802][/doublepost]
I'm on weight watchers.
Don't let them take too much of your money.

You can save a lot of money by downloading the "MyFitnesspal" app, and logging your daily caloric intake.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,998
27,082
The Misty Mountains
Monday will be a week without swimming. Is a week enough? My left shoulder is feeling better but tender when I move it around in swimming motions. If I swim tomorrow any suggestions on a good way to ease back into swimming 50 laps? Something like start out with 10 laps, then 20, etc? Yes, I may have to visit the doctor.
 

0388631

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Cool weather! I've been doing 2-5 miles of running the last few days. Physically I feel stronger and younger. Mentally, I'm in good spirits. The weather hasn't been warm enough to bother with our pool. @Huntn I'd start off with doing 60-75% of what you feel you can do. You want to leave a little in the tank. Have you experimented with contrast showers/baths for your shoulder?
 

Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,645
52,425
In a van down by the river
Cool weather! I've been doing 2-5 miles of running the last few days. Physically I feel stronger and younger. Mentally, I'm in good spirits. The weather hasn't been warm enough to bother with our pool. @Huntn I'd start off with doing 60-75% of what you feel you can do. You want to leave a little in the tank. Have you experimented with contrast showers/baths for your shoulder?
Good to see you back running. Slowly build up your long run again. I think once you do, you will experience running on a whole different level.

Completed my first 75 mile training run two weeks ago. Took me 17 hours. Only time I stopped running (no walking involved), was to urinate. It was a wonderful meditative experience.
 

0388631

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Good to see you back running. Slowly build up your long run again. I think once you do, you will experience running on a whole different level.

Completed my first 75 mile training run two weeks ago. Took me 17 hours. Only time I stopped running (no walking involved), was to urinate. It was a wonderful meditative experience.
I wasn't doing a whole lot of running before. However, the other day, I did run enough to trigger something and made me feel as if I'd had a few gallons of water in me. On very hot days where the air temperature is still around 86 at dusk, I take 16 oz of water post run with an eight or a bit more of potassium salt and a few drops of trace minerals. As a result, I don't feel tired until bedtime when I can pass out. Which is great, because I can play with the kids and get them tired so they sleep a bit earlier than usual. Ideally I'd like to hit 25-30 miles a week by the time winter rolls around.

I'm still on the hunt for a quality indoor cardio machine or two. I've spoken to a lot of people and been told I should look for something from a company's commercial line. They're easier to DIY repair and last longer between maintenance cycles. Deciding what I want or rather what we should get is difficult. I tend to snap up anything quality for a decent price from Rogue.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,998
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The Misty Mountains
Cool weather! I've been doing 2-5 miles of running the last few days. Physically I feel stronger and younger. Mentally, I'm in good spirits. The weather hasn't been warm enough to bother with our pool. @Huntn I'd start off with doing 60-75% of what you feel you can do. You want to leave a little in the tank. Have you experimented with contrast showers/baths for your shoulder?

I waited two weeks instead of one, and today swam 60% of my normal 50 laps without issues! :) Of course, it can take a while for issues to develop if it's being done wrong. I also adjusted strokes and percentage of strokes I'm doing. Based on some research, I've cut out backstroke due to stress on the shoulders. I've also reduced my number of crawl stokes from 80% back to 40% of my total laps, at least for now. I spent a lot of concentration on form in my crawl laps, and I'm doing shoulder stretches, I was not doing before (thanks @A.Goldberg). :)
 
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0388631

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I waited two weeks instead of one, and today swam 60% of my normal 50 laps without issues! :) Of course, it can take a while for issues to develop if it's being done wrong. I also adjusted strokes and percentage of strokes I'm doing. Based on some research, I've cut out backstroke due to stress on the shoulders. I've also reduced my number of crawl stokes from 80% back to 40% of my total laps, at least for now. I spent a lot of concentration on form in my crawl laps, and I'm doing shoulder stretches, I was not doing before (thanks @A.Goldberg). :)
Great news. I don't think stretching has ever crossed my mind when it comes to swimming. Though it makes a lot of sense given that the muscles will be cooled as you're in water. You can have your doctor clear you for joint/tendon supplementation. I've been on a regimen for about half a year and I do feel better than I did before. I got cleared recently for a few more stuff. Nothing expensive, fairly cheap. You can ask Ari about it and he can give you some suggestions to speak to your doctor about. I don't feel comfortable giving out what I take and dosages because it may harm you or others gleaning info from this thread.
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,998
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The Misty Mountains
Great news. I don't think stretching has ever crossed my mind when it comes to swimming. Though it makes a lot of sense given that the muscles will be cooled as you're in water. You can have your doctor clear you for joint/tendon supplementation. I've been on a regimen for about half a year and I do feel better than I did before. I got cleared recently for a few more stuff. Nothing expensive, fairly cheap. You can ask Ari about it and he can give you some suggestions to speak to your doctor about. I don't feel comfortable giving out what I take and dosages because it may harm you or others gleaning info from this thread.

Do you feel comfortable giving an example of what is considered a joint/tendon supplement without it being considered an acknowledgement of what you take? I found this.
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
I had a thread regarding dieting (I thought), but can't find it. I was a chunky kid, discovered exercise as a teen, became an avid runner, went 40 years without a weight issue due to regular exercise, but now in my 60s, I'm about 30 lbs overweight. I'm 5'10" @220 lbs. I can no longer run, but walk a couple of times a week, approx 2 miles. I recently cut out deserts from my diet as I have a sweet tooth, and try to substitute things like Greek yogurt or strawberries for desert, but there are no cakes, pies, or cookies in the house.

I also drink diet Pepsi, which I've heard may not be great for weight loss, but when I consider the million calories, I've avoided, I have to wonder what I'd look like if I had spent the last 35 years drinking sugared pop. ;) I snack on things like baby carrots and drink low cal (5 calories) Cranberry juice which I regard as a flavored water more or less. I cut out milk years ago and drink 60 calorie almond milk on my unsweetened cereal.

My bet is that there are more than a few MR forum members who have weight issues. If you are successfully managing your weight, please report! :)

My impression is that at its simplest form that weight gain involves two aspects calories consumed vs calories burned, which can be effected by metabolism.

What do you think about artificial sweeteners?
Thanks!

Ever consider a sugar detox? You mentioned a sweet tooth which is something I've struggled with my whole life (though it sounds like I'm more then 20 years younger being in my early 40's). I tried the sugar detox (link below) and I dropped 12 lbs in 3 weeks, most of it in my tummy (the most dangerous type of fat). It also changed how I eat and the nutritionist interviewed by CNN wasn't kidding when she says things taste sweeter. I don't sweeten things NEARLY as much as I used to and if I do find something extremely sweet, I've found I have to either drink water or unsweetened tea to "balance it out." Not something I used to do. Don't bother buying the book, I found following the article just as effective (and the reviewers on Amazon said the book itself was inconsistent anyway).

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/09/health/sugar-detox-food-drayer/index.html

Update: If you go to the amazon entry for the book, one of the sample pages is the list of things you can and cannot eat on the first three day "cold turkey" period, which is the key in the first place. I'd say that's all you need. The article provides the basics for weeks one through four after that. I pdf'd it for future reference just in case it gets removed.

I've learned that you don't always need to follow diet guidelines "to the letter." As long as you stick with the gist of it, you'll get results. And, one even more important thing I've learned. You're going to fall off the wagon. Don't punish yourself. Forgive yourself. Acknowledge that it happened but that "tomorrow is a new day and I will start again." Weighing yourself everyday also helps. You can make the connection between behavior and result, which lends itself towards behavioral correction.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled program. :)
[doublepost=1501611834][/doublepost]
That is a part of my life I need to improve. I make next to no exercise. Been like that for maybe 4-5 years now. So I don't have much muscle.

I think I will notice as I keep losing weight. Right now at 193 lbs I still feel a little overweight. I'm sure if I made some exercise this would change... or maybe I just need to accept I'll never look like in the magazines...:p

And one thing I specially "hate"... is man boobs. I don't care that much about some belly, but these boobs I don't like.:D

Ever consider martial arts? Particularly one that involves Yoga and Weapons Training? I practice a martial arts with weapons training that also recently incorporated Yoga into its curriculum and I've gained more muscle from that than anything I've ever done before. It's also the longest thing I've ever stuck with, going on 8 years now.
 

AVBeatMan

macrumors 603
Nov 10, 2010
5,967
3,848
Ever consider a sugar detox? You mentioned a sweet tooth which is something I've struggled with my whole life (though it sounds like I'm more then 20 years younger being in my early 40's). I tried the sugar detox (link below) and I dropped 12 lbs in 3 weeks, most of it in my tummy (the most dangerous type of fat). It also changed how I eat and the nutritionist interviewed by CNN wasn't kidding when she says things taste sweeter. I don't sweeten things NEARLY as much as I used to and if I do find something extremely sweet, I've found I have to either drink water or unsweetened tea to "balance it out." Not something I used to do. Don't bother buying the book, I found following the article just as effective (and the reviewers on Amazon said the book itself was inconsistent anyway).

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/09/health/sugar-detox-food-drayer/index.html

Update: If you go to the amazon entry for the book, one of the sample pages is the list of things you can and cannot eat on the first three day "cold turkey" period, which is the key in the first place. I'd say that's all you need. The article provides the basics for weeks one through four after that. I pdf'd it for future reference just in case it gets removed.

I've learned that you don't always need to follow diet guidelines "to the letter." As long as you stick with the gist of it, you'll get results. And, one even more important thing I've learned. You're going to fall off the wagon. Don't punish yourself. Forgive yourself. Acknowledge that it happened but that "tomorrow is a new day and I will start again." Weighing yourself everyday also helps. You can make the connection between behavior and result, which lends itself towards behavioral correction.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled program. :)
[doublepost=1501611834][/doublepost]

Ever consider martial arts? Particularly one that involves Yoga and Weapons Training? I practice a martial arts with weapons training that also recently incorporated Yoga into its curriculum and I've gained more muscle from that than anything I've ever done before. It's also the longest thing I've ever stuck with, going on 8 years now.

This sounds like just what I need. I’m 53 and have type 2 diabetes. I’m always trying to cut out sugar but it’s not easy. Sugar is in everything! They even pile it into “healthy” cereals. Thanks. Will take a look.
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
This sounds like just what I need. I’m 53 and have type 2 diabetes. I’m always trying to cut out sugar but it’s not easy. Sugar is in everything! They even pile it into “healthy” cereals. Thanks. Will take a look.

Yes, it's pretty bad. I started noticing how much sugar is in everything when I started. It became an exercise in "nope, can't have this, nope, can't have that!"

John Oliver did a piece on it to great comedic effect:
 

0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
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Technically, unless it's protein or fat, it's going to be converted into sugar eventually.
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
Technically, unless it's protein or fat, it's going to be converted into sugar eventually.
That's why the first three days of the detox involves such a limited diet. It's not just "no sugar," you basically can only eat protein, limited amounts of fat, and green vegetables those first three days. My diet was omelette (spinach and mushrooms only) for breakfast, roasted or sauteed tofu or fried egg, broccoli, mushrooms and bell peppers for lunch and dinner with some almonds and triscuit's for snacks. No starch, no fruit, nothing. Allowed drinks are water, black coffee or unsweetened tea. On day 4, you're allowed one serving of fruit (an apple) and one serving of dairy (cheese or milk - I did soy milk since I'm lactose intolerant). The dietitian in the linked article in my post said that those first three days are the reset. After that, it's about gradually adding back naturally sweetened foods.

I used to be doing things like adding tons of sugar to my tea and dipping strawberries in sugar. I don't do that anymore. My first piece of cake after doing this was a third the size of my normal slice and I felt disgusting after. I chugged a glass of unsweetened iced tea to "balance out" the excessive sweetness. I eat plain strawberries now and if I sweeten my tea, it's with a couple teaspoons of honey or maple syrup (both considered natural sweeteners).

I've tried to "wean" my system off of the white stuff but nothing ever really worked. After reading the CNN piece, I finally came to the conclusion that what I really need was to "shock" my system out of it, and it worked.

*Note - the usual caveats apply in that everyone is different. My wife, for example didn't respond as strongly as I did. She did notice that things tasted noticeably sweeter, but she didn't loose as much weight as I did. However, I had withdrawal symptoms whereas she did not. She never really was much for sweet foods like I was.
 
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0388631

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Right. I had no idea you were without liver. Did you and your wife have a blood lipid and hormonal panel done prior to this so-called detox and one after? If so, could you share the results with us?
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
Right. I had no idea you were without liver. Did you and your wife have a blood lipid and hormonal panel done prior to this so-called detox and one after? If so, could you share the results with us?

That's ok, I didn't know that you were a doctor or registered dietitian. Given that my doctor and dietitian were both supportive of this detox that I did, maybe you could consider giving this the benefit of the doubt? They, and other folks in the medical field, were very clear that most detox plans were bad for you and they would not recommend it. This sugar detox was the one exception.

And we both are planning to have our blood lipid panels done fairly soon. The most dramatic impact I'm expecting is on my triglycerides, which have been high for nearly a decade now.
 
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xthine

macrumors 6502
Apr 29, 2015
292
267
USA
Wisdom teeth taken out last week. No pain but it looks like the nerve was irritated during the procedure (chin and lip numb). Have only managed to go on hikes last weekend. I'm supposed to be clear to hit the trails but was told to take it easy as far as effort. The agony!
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,998
27,082
The Misty Mountains
Wisdom teeth taken out last week. No pain but it looks like the nerve was irritated during the procedure (chin and lip numb). Have only managed to go on hikes last weekend. I'm supposed to be clear to hit the trails but was told to take it easy as far as effort. The agony!
Hiking would hinder healing of an irritated nerve? Interesting.
 

xthine

macrumors 6502
Apr 29, 2015
292
267
USA
Hiking would hinder healing of an irritated nerve? Interesting.

Don't think it would, I think exercise would facilitate healing. Was concerned about elevating my HR to the point of blood clots popping out, dry socket etc. Last weekends hikes were 6 - 8 miles with over a thousand feet of gain (trails I would normally run), stayed within HR zones 1-2.
 

arkitect

macrumors 604
Sep 5, 2005
7,370
16,098
Bath, United Kingdom
That's why the first three days of the detox involves such a limited diet. It's not just "no sugar," you basically can only eat protein, limited amounts of fat, and green vegetables those first three days. My diet was omelette (spinach and mushrooms only) for breakfast, roasted or sauteed tofu or fried egg, broccoli, mushrooms and bell peppers for lunch and dinner with some almonds and triscuit's for snacks. No starch, no fruit, nothing. Allowed drinks are water, black coffee or unsweetened tea. On day 4, you're allowed one serving of fruit (an apple) and one serving of dairy (cheese or milk - I did soy milk since I'm lactose intolerant). The dietitian in the linked article in my post said that those first three days are the reset. After that, it's about gradually adding back naturally sweetened foods.

I used to be doing things like adding tons of sugar to my tea and dipping strawberries in sugar. I don't do that anymore. My first piece of cake after doing this was a third the size of my normal slice and I felt disgusting after. I chugged a glass of unsweetened iced tea to "balance out" the excessive sweetness. I eat plain strawberries now and if I sweeten my tea, it's with a couple teaspoons of honey or maple syrup (both considered natural sweeteners).

I've tried to "wean" my system off of the white stuff but nothing ever really worked. After reading the CNN piece, I finally came to the conclusion that what I really need was to "shock" my system out of it, and it worked.

*Note - the usual caveats apply in that everyone is different. My wife, for example didn't respond as strongly as I did. She did notice that things tasted noticeably sweeter, but she didn't loose as much weight as I did. However, I had withdrawal symptoms whereas she did not. She never really was much for sweet foods like I was.
I've been reading this with interest. Reminds me a lot of my ketogenic eating.
No sugar and no grains etc.
As close as possible to zero carbs per day.

I posted earlier in this thread about my lifestyle…

"Hm. Probably a bit of a loner out here as my version of a healthy lifestyle is a bit contrary to the norm.

53 yo, 5'7", 132lbs

HIIT x 3/week
Bodyweight strength training x 3/week
Yoga x 5/week
Most warm/sunny weekends out hiking.

Keto/Low-Carb.
No grains, no sugar.

Life long hay fever sufferer, after cutting out the sugars and grains my hay fever all but disappeared.

Been going this way the past 5 + years.

Works for me. :)"
 
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0388631

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That's ok, I didn't know that you were a doctor or registered dietitian.
I'm not. I prefer making more money and not being near the ill. If you'd gone with a keto diet from the start I wouldn't have criticized you or your 'detox.'
 

jdoll021

macrumors 6502
I'm not. I prefer making more money and not being near the ill. If you'd gone with a keto diet from the start I wouldn't have criticized you or your 'detox.'

Cool. I'm sure the "ill" want nothing to do with you either. I don't have epilepsy so I don't need a keto diet. I do have PKU so I need a low phenyalanine diet (or, more recently, enzyme injections that allow me a normal vegetarian diet). Guess I qualify as ill in your mind so perhaps this means you'll stop talking to me? One can only hope.

Incidentally, I hope you realize that most people who are "ill" did nothing to become ill in the first place. However, I'm actually am not that optimistic and don't expect you to realize that.
 
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