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Help me defend the iPhone and Apple please!

O

opticalserenity

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 14, 2007
596
0
Ok, so...I've been getting heck for the iPhone for a while over at Blackhole forums:

http://www.theblackhole.us/forum/showthread.php?t=2998

The is issue is, there are people over there who simply are ignorant about Apple stuff and technology in general. If you notice, the OP in that thread is all about just bashing the iPhone and even just Apple in general.

Also check out, yet another iPhone bashing thread, and Apple bashing in general by someone who purports to know what they are talking about:

http://www.theblackhole.us/forum/showthread.php?t=2987

Thanks.
 
ipoddin,

I could just ignore it, but I funny enough, I'm one of the admin there. I just want to show the supposed "experts" that they really are just ignorant.
 
you can just blame the hype.
Just lay low until it blows over and things return to normal.

Shouldn't take long.

Also, this thing is a pricey high-end item that is a target for the budget minded. The fact that it was so hyped has caused a real stir.
 
Why waste your time?

The "fine gentleman" (I'm trying to avoid using terms such as "idiot", "moron", "dumb-@ss", etc) that started those threads comes across as a self-proclaimed "expert" who knows jack about anything non-MS. You ever hear the saying about knowing just enough to be dangerous? That's exactly how he's portraying himself, although he seems too ignorant to see it.

Besides, it looks like there's another poster doing a fine job of calling him on the BS he's spouting.
 
Well... Here is a point I wrote on Engadget, that many people aren't considering when they are hating on the iPhone:

For the people writing about how un-revolutionary the iPhone is... The iPhone is not revolutionary by most specs and features, on paper. Where the iPhone is revolutionary, is its implementation and execution of those features. Everything is so smooth, simple, and well organized. EVERYTHING on the iPhone is mostly 1 to 3 steps away, with no pointless, deep menus to have to go through. Animations and design were all worked on by people who obviously have a very strong understanding of the fundamentals of design/aesthetics and is what makes the iPhone a strong experience, in and of itself.

The iPhone is 90% amazing execution/implementation, 10% new cool ****, and it CANNOT be appreciated by merely reading the specs; only as much as a fine food dish can be enjoyed by reading its recipe.
 
Bludgeon him with knowledge.

Otherwise leave it alone. I have read a lot of complaints about the iPhone but most of them are ill-based. I have not seen any I would consider well-thought out or compelling. Most of them stem from ignorance, and/or personal issues related to what equipment they currently have.

I would ammend that, as I have seen some people fairly compare the pros and cons of the phones and say "It is not for me right now." That is fair enough. But most of the bashing is based on ignorance about what the phone will or will not do. People also tend to take specific issues and use that as a reason why the iPhone sucks with no real context.

Take 3G for instance. The whole 3G argument is the dumbest thing I ever heard. No phone out there provides web browsing like the iPhone. In fact most cases web browsing is completely unusable on most phones. So the fact that you can't view the web very fast on another phone is meaningless. Being able to view and USE the web in its full splendor at a lower speed is worth significantly more than being able to not see it in any reasonable form or facsimile faster. Many of the arguments go down the same road. They focus on one specific issue and don't put the iPhone or the phones being compared in complete context, and thus makes it worthless.
 
Leave it alone, dont waste your time with them, you are better off playing with that shiny new iPhone of yours. If you dont pay attention, all the effort use for bashing will be wasted, just like how I didnt look at someone smash a iPhone with a hammer on YouTube...mostly because I didnt have the respect to watch those idiot waste $500-$600, and partly because I couldnt stomach it, but what can I say, I had a full lunch...
 
Internet arguments are stupid. Don't waste your time, you won't get anyone to change their mind.

A few posts up said, "They will all have one by next year". That is the truth. It is a paradigm changing device that doesn't need defense.

/Enjoy your phone
 
Well, he does have valid points. I mean, the iPhone is "Cool" but its certainly not groundbreaking. Many phones do "MORE" for less money. No, they don't have all the glitz and glamour, but, I think we all know that sometimes the shiniest and most fancy things are not always the best.

For example:

No Programming API? Hello! I love to play small games on my phone, alot of them on NES / SNES / Genesis emulators. Lots of fun while waiting in line at the bmv. Not the mention the myraid of other useful apps I use on a daily basis.

Big hole here Apple!

Also no Java, thats standard on the cheapest junkiest phone, again with lots of interesting fun apps.

And to make the browser out to be the best thing since sliced bread, or the first "Useble" browser is quite a stretch! I probably spend 1+ hours a day reading websites on my phone, and have been for a few years, mostly while waiting on the bus etc.

Basically, you have to realize, to alot of the apple faithful this is "NEW" stuff, but to alot of us, its NOT.

Yes its shiny, yes it has cool animations, don't get me wrong. I am not hating on it. I am just in agreeance that its form over function, and therefore not worth MY 600 Dollars.

Now had they made a modern Newton, with a phone built in, and the ipod interface, I would have been first in line.
 
marksman said:
Take 3G for instance. The whole 3G argument is the dumbest thing I ever heard. No phone out there provides web browsing like the iPhone. In fact most cases web browsing is completely unusable on most phones. So the fact that you can't view the web very fast on another phone is meaningless. Being able to view and USE the web in its full splendor at a lower speed is worth significantly more than being able to not see it in any reasonable form or facsimile faster. Many of the arguments go down the same road. They focus on one specific issue and don't put the iPhone or the phones being compared in complete context, and thus makes it worthless.
Click to expand...

How many phones have you tried? You do know that thunderbird mobile has done exactly what the iphones browser does for the last several years? IE render the entire page and allow you to zoom in and out at will? Its not particularly new or ground breaking. So yes, many phones provide web browsing like the iPhone. I have one laying on my desk right now that does.
 
BillHarrison said:
How many phones have you tried? You do know that thunderbird mobile has done exactly what the iphones browser does for the last several years? IE render the entire page and allow you to zoom in and out at will? Its not particularly new or ground breaking. So yes, many phones provide web browsing like the iPhone. I have one laying on my desk right now that does.
Click to expand...

Guilty just of what I was saying. Anyways what phone is that? You seem to have just and focused specifically on the add-on browser software now.
 
marksman said:
Guilty just of what I was saying. Anyways what phone is that? You seem to have just and focused specifically on the add-on browser software now.
Click to expand...

Wrong. I am just responding to that line in your argument in particular. You want to compare a different phone feature for feature with the iPhone? I understand the iPhone is a full package, but there are other full packages available. In a full feature comparison, I think you will find the iPhone comes up short in ALOT of areas.

It will shine in a few however. But in a pure feature list, I bet many phones would outclass it.
 
opticalserenity said:
I could just ignore it, but I funny enough, I'm one of the admin there. I just want to show the supposed "experts" that they really are just ignorant.
Click to expand...

Hattig said:
Arguing with idiots is pointless. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Click to expand...
I agree with Hattig.

It's impossible for a person being ignorant to be shown that they're being ignorant. It's one of those universal laws, like gravity and stuff. :)
 
BillHarrison said:
Well, he does have valid points. I mean, the iPhone is "Cool" but its certainly not groundbreaking. Many phones do "MORE" for less money. No, they don't have all the glitz and glamour, but, I think we all know that sometimes the shiniest and most fancy things are not always the best.

For example:

No Programming API? Hello! I love to play small games on my phone, alot of them on NES / SNES / Genesis emulators. Lots of fun while waiting in line at the bmv. Not the mention the myraid of other useful apps I use on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Read this for why.

Also no Java, thats standard on the cheapest junkiest phone, again with lots of interesting fun apps.
Click to expand...

I agree, the issue could be that they wouldn't be iPhone specific, if Apple supported Java without an API everyone would use that and make crappy applications, once they get an API I'd expect Java support. Though FWIW I personally don't use any Java apps on my Phone, and never have except for games.

And to make the browser out to be the best thing since sliced bread, or the first "Useble" browser is quite a stretch! I probably spend 1+ hours a day reading websites on my phone, and have been for a few years, mostly while waiting on the bus etc.

Basically, you have to realize, to alot of the apple faithful this is "NEW" stuff, but to alot of us, its NOT.
Click to expand...

Apple fans have had phones before ;), I'm not convinced the experience is very good. FWIW my Nokia 6230i has an MP3 player which I have never used..
Yes its shiny, yes it has cool animations, don't get me wrong. I am not hating on it. I am just in agreeance that its form over function,
Click to expand...

So is the iPod ;).

Now had they made a modern Newton, with a phone built in, and the ipod interface, I would have been first in line.
Click to expand...

Patience, adding software is easy and I expect them to improve it, both OS X and the iPod had limited software features to start with.
 
marksman said:
Guilty just of what I was saying. Anyways what phone is that? You seem to have just and focused specifically on the add-on browser software now.
Click to expand...

its not a phone, you can install opera mini on any phone with java (which is essentially every single smartphone) and run the internet JUST like safari. Zoom in and zoom out and perfect webpages not morphed for the phone. So 3g is wonderful for me =) I like my near 1mbit connection and instant webpages

New to you, but not new to me =( BUT youtube is a lil clearer on the iphone than on my phone =) (but i dont find myself viewing the ****** collection of m.youtube.com too often)

don't get me wrong, the iphone is prettttttttttttty. it definitely has that going for it!
 
clayfu said:
you can install opera mini on any phone with java (which is essentially every single smartphone) and run the internet JUST like safari. Zoom in and zoom out and perfect webpages not morphed for the phone. So 3g is wonderful for me =) I like my near 1mbit connection and instant webpages
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, you lost 98% of the public when you said "you can install opera mini on any phone", because there's no way they'd be able to figure that out on their own, thus the success of the iPhone, as limited as it may currently be. :)
 
aristobrat said:
Unfortunately, you lost 98% of the public when you said "you can install opera mini on any phone", because there's no way they'd be able to figure that out on their own, thus the success of the iPhone, as limited as it may currently be. :)
Click to expand...

Aye an iphone is the smartphone for the masses. People seem to miss the idea that apple's target audience is the everyday joe who doesn't want to spend countless hours configuring things.
 
aristobrat said:
Unfortunately, you lost 98% of the public when you said "you can install opera mini on any phone", because there's no way they'd be able to figure that out on their own, thus the success of the iPhone, as limited as it may currently be. :)
Click to expand...
go to operamini's website, the first link on their is the d/l.

click install
it installs, it resets your phone for you and its done.

sorry its not that hard, even an idiot could do it. It doesn't ask you to place it in the directory or anything. Of course it is easier on the iphone since you don't have to install it. but i'm saying safari and web access is nothing new.

The excitement over safari and googlemaps confuses me =)
 
clayfu said:
sorry its not that hard, even an idiot could do it.
Click to expand...

I think the point is that a lot of people don't want to do it. They want it to just work. No searching for different apps, no trying different browsers, no downloads, no installs, no tweaking. They just want it to work. And trust me, it's not about being an idiot, it's about not wanting to spend time doing any of that, or not having the time to spend in the first place.
 
clayfu said:
its not a phone, you can install opera mini on any phone with java (which is essentially every single smartphone) and run the internet JUST like safari. Zoom in and zoom out and perfect webpages not morphed for the phone. So 3g is wonderful for me =) I like my near 1mbit connection and instant webpages
Click to expand...

Yeah I got that. Bill told me he had a phone that could do that. Read my post, I acknowledged it was a piece of software running on a phone. I asked you specifically about Bill's phone sitting on HIS desk.

The fact that it runs in java on all these phones with horrible UIs does not make your case. That is in fact the point and the reason why it works.

It is not about the capability it is about the usability.

Yeah you can put opera mini browser on all those phones? Would most people want to? No. I am very technically capable, I am sure it would not be an issue, but I am also not a big fan of wasting my time, nor of poorly implemented phone interfaces. I could give my phone to pretty much any marginally capable adult, and without and guidance, instruction or manuals, ask them to bring up a web page and they could do it right away.

Can Bill make the same claim about his phone? If he just handed someone his phone who was not familiar with it, and had them take the phone from an off state to an on state, could they and would they be able to take your phone to a full-screen web browser page in a matter of a few pushes?

It is possible that a phone with a usable interface has snuck by the public, but not very likely.
 
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