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kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I'd just take my 'phone...


Please explain why. I'd really love to hear it.


Did you actually bother reading all of my post?



Lol! I spose if you've spent that much money, you need to believe it's true...


Perhaps you need to get out a bit more then.
Exactly, you would take the phone and not a camera - because the Z9 isn’t versatile enough to be manageable in that situation. Are you not seeing our point here at all?

So I am confused on the one hand I am implying that you are not knowledgeable yet you want me to explain why a range finder and a fast spray and pray camera are not aimed at the same audience?

The Z9 from Nikon site: Nikon’s most advanced AF system ever re-defines tenacious. Day-long shoots. Hours of 8K video. The most extreme locations. The fastest action. The Z 9 stands up to the toughest professional demands—and then some.

The M11 from Leica : The Leica M11 combines traditional rangefinder photography with innovative, contemporary camera technology. This newly developed masterpiece offers a choice of image resolution and numerous innovations that result in a vastly superior user experience. The M11 provides maximum flexibility, the highest image quality [sic so far in a Leica] and timeless build and design; the perfect tool for expressing your individual artistic vision.

Yes I read your post but you are being so stubborn you are missing the point of how single focussed you are being.

There you go making it about the money again. You yourself have shown above that the money is the same regardless of your chosen kit load out and the resale values by far outstrip the resale on the non-Leicas and so your point about the money is utter nonsense. I can point at countless examples where the Leica purchase is more sensible than other brands in terms of TCO. Again, which bit of this are you not understanding?

I think you need to stop being personal, suggesting people need to get out more is just rude.
 

kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
Yep. Definitely an option. A 'Leica' but without the badge.
Great. Sounds perfect. So it is literally about the Leica brand for you then? Do you use a DeWalt drill? Knowing it is a black and decker inside?

None of my Leicas have visible red dots BTW. I cover them so as to not be recognisable. Equally I don’t use my Nikon or other branded neck straps on my cameras as I find it silly to scream steal me.
 

kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
WHATABOUTWHATABOUTWHATABOUT.
Snippy comments when you are shown to be wrong. That is a bit petty. Come on, this is a debate, show me evidence. I asked you to show me objective evidence of the Leica lenses being no better but no, I get this in return. Admit, we have a point and you just dont like Leica - for subjective reasons

I don’t know if you follow fstoppers? I find them interesting and usually quite on the ball.

But on the topic of Mythology, here is Nikon being called out for it

But this is interesting as they are usually pretty brutal with their comments.
 
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dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,264
32,146
SF, CA
th-2011652100.jpeg



After reading where this post has gone I decided to get myself one of these.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,727
Nice. Have you watched the YouTube vids of a pro with a reasonably priced camera? Great fun. I think they give Lara Jade a Barbie themed kids camera and she still does a good job.
is "reasonably priced" a catchphrase over there??
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,727
Yeah i think it comes from Top Gear the car show where they have celebrities race round a track in a “reasonably priced car”
yes, that's what I know it from, but then with mention in a camera video I wondered if was more popular than from just Top Gear. 🙂
 
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mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,727
So, having never used or even held a Leica, I decided to google "why is Leica the best" or something to that effect. Of course you can't really find anything quantitative (although I suppose those lens charts that Ken would love to see are out there, but I don't know how to read those).

I did however, find this video, which I found really interesting. I love how it has made this photographer more mindful of his work, which in the end is all any of can ask for. I have certain things in my kit that slow me down and make me work harder for an image, and I really like that. I also have gear that is basically an extension of myself, and I am happy to have both sides to work with on any given day.

 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
So, having never used or even held a Leica, I decided to google "why is Leica the best" or something to that effect. Of course you can't really find anything quantitative (although I suppose those lens charts that Ken would love to see are out there, but I don't know how to read those).

I did however, find this video, which I found really interesting. I love how it has made this photographer more mindful of his work, which in the end is all any of can ask for. I have certain things in my kit that slow me down and make me work harder for an image, and I really like that. I also have gear that is basically an extension of myself, and I am happy to have both sides to work with on any given day.

So just go buy a Leica, Molly.....
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,727
Yes, we know.... several old classic film cameras, two or three Nikon ILCs, a MF camera body and one MF lens..... For someone who has always claimed that gear doesn't matter, you certainly have managed to accumulate some! :)
would you like to tell us about the new ar7v and 24-70 you have?
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,727
also, i'm not sure that i ever claimed gear didn't matter...i mean, i suppose you could unearth some sort of quote i've made saying something like that...but gear doesn't matter until it does....and most of my gear, other than the Z6/Z6ii overlap, does something different than everything else I own.
 

dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,264
32,146
SF, CA
My favorite camera I owned was when I was in photo school, it was a Mamiya C300 I bought used. It had electrical taped wrapped around the back to stop the light leaks. I made some great images with that camera. I was friends with Jim Marshall a rock and roll photo from the 60' s. When I knew him in the 80 he always had a Leica RF around his neck and that thing had more dents that my Ford Pinto. Ahh good memories 😀
 

PrecisionGem

Suspended
Jan 25, 2019
215
327
Maryland
A mechanical watch once beyond repair can be stripped for parts, recycled, used to repair others and so is reducing.
I'm try to picture how much room parts from a mechanical watch would take up in a land fill if they were not recycled....

I think plastic water bottles globally consume a lot more land fill than watch parts. Maybe a couple hundred trillion times more.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Sure, Molly! What would you like to know? Actually, I had the impression some time ago, whether or not conveyed intentionally, from a regular participant's apparent attitude in the Digital Photography forum that it was not cool, not appropriate to announce one's joy at having purchased/obtained some new gear, so that is why this time around I didn't bother to make a post about it. Why do you care? Doesn't really matter to anyone except me, anyway, does it? I'm self-supporting, I'm the one paying for it, I'm the one using it. In the end, aren't the resulting images from whatever gear one uses more important?

To answer the question, yes, I love both the new A7 V (traded my beloved A7R IV in on it) and the 24-70mm GM II, although I am still waiting (impatiently) for DXO PhotoLab 6 (my primary editing tool) to finally come up with a module which supports RAW images with the A7R V (they're promising some time in January!), so in the meantime I am still shooting .jpegs with that camera. That's fine, since most of the time I am using it for macros and closeups anyway.

The A7R V now offers for (the first time on a Sony camera) the ability to do focus stacking (focus bracketing, whatever it is called), which I guess has already been available on other camera brands for a little while. I haven't gotten around to experimenting with that, as I'm waiting to be able to work wholly in RAW from the get-go, plus I don't really understand the appeal of focus stacking, which makes a macro or close-up image totally in focus all the way around. I suppose that for some types of images it is desirable, though.

To me, part of the appeal in shooting macro or closeups is that ability to try to control shallow DOF and such so that an image is displayed showing a lot of OOF area (either controlled or uncontrolled bokeh and blur) while at the same time, at least one area, even if a tiny section of the image, actually remains in focus.... The trick is to skillfully and carefully control the image so that the entire thing is not blurred. This is usually possible with good lenses.

Got off-track there..... The Sony 24-70 GM II lens is one for which I have long been waiting, as at the time (late 2019) I was switching from Nikon to Sony, the Sony first-gen 24-70mm GM was receiving a lot of mixed reviews so although 24-70mm had been long since been a favorite range when I shot Nikon, since I was starting from scratch with Sony anyway, I just put that particular range and lens on the back burner as I had other lens priorities as well. I was more than happy when Sony finally came out with the new GM II version of that lens. It's a beauty and so far it has been a star when I've used it....

Any other questions? I've only had both the camera and the lens for a short time so haven't really put either of them through their full paces.... I will say that the A7R V, just like her predecessor, LOVES the 90mm macro and that is reciprocated. The two of them are very happy when working together. She also likes shooting with one of the longer lenses, too, as one day I put the 100-400mm on her and she was quite happy with that. I've got a few other lenses which so far the A7R V hasn't experienced yet, but over time that will happen.....
 
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mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,727
Sure, Molly! What would you like to know? Actually, I had the impression some time ago, whether or not conveyed intentionally, from a regular participant's apparent attitude in the Digital Photography forum that it was not cool, not appropriate to announce one's joy at having purchased/obtained some new gear, so that is why this time around I didn't bother to make a post about it. Why do you care? Doesn't really matter to anyone except me, anyway, does it? I'm self-supporting, I'm the one paying for it, I'm the one using it. In the end, aren't the resulting images from whatever gear one uses more important?

To answer the question, yes, I love both the new A7 V (traded my beloved A7R IV in on it) and the 24-70mm GM II, although I am still waiting (impatiently) for DXO PhotoLab 6 (my primary editing tool) to finally come up with a module which supports RAW images with the A7R V (they're promising some time in January!), so in the meantime I am still shooting .jpegs with that camera. That's fine, since most of the time I am using it for macros and closeups anyway.

The A7R V now offers for (the first time on a Sony camera) the ability to do focus stacking (focus bracketing, whatever it is called), which I guess has already been available on other camera brands for a little while. I haven't gotten around to experimenting with that, as I'm waiting to be able to work wholly in RAW from the get-go, plus I don't really understand the appeal of focus stacking, which makes a macro or close-up image totally in focus all the way around. I suppose that for some types of images it is desirable, though.

To me, part of the appeal in shooting macro or closeups is that ability to try to control shallow DOF and such so that an image is displayed showing a lot of OOF area (either controlled or uncontrolled bokeh and blur) while at the same time, at least one area, even if a tiny section of the image, actually remains in focus.... The trick is to skillfully and carefully control the image so that the entire thing is not blurred. This is usually possible with good lenses.

Got off-track there..... The Sony 24-70 GM II lens is one for which I have long been waiting, as at the time (late 2019) I was switching from Nikon to Sony, the Sony first-gen 24-70mm GM was receiving a lot of mixed reviews so although 24-70mm had been long since been a favorite range when I shot Nikon, since I was starting from scratch with Sony anyway, I just put that particular range and lens on the back burner as I had other lens priorities as well. I was more than happy when Sony finally came out with the new GM II version of that lens. It's a beauty and so far it has been a star when I've used it....

Any other questions? I've only had both the camera and the lens for a short time so haven't really put either of them through their full paces.... I will say that the A7R V, just like her predecessor, LOVES the 90mm macro and that is reciprocated. The two of them are very happy when working together. She also likes shooting with one of the longer lenses, too, as one day I put the 100-400mm on her and she was quite happy with that. I've got a few other lenses which so far the A7R V hasn't experienced yet, but over time that will happen.....

the difference is i don’t actually care what gear people use if they can produce results with it. and i don’t write walls of text about what a specific body or lens can do. i go use them and post photos with the results. and i certainly don’t list them out every possible time. and i mean every possible turn. maybe i’ll start stripping exif data. that’s how little i care what gear people use. i choose cameras and lenses for what they do differently, not because they are the hot item.

so no. i actually don’t have any questions but clearly you were waiting for someone to notice so you could go off on another tangent.
 

kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I'm try to picture how much room parts from a mechanical watch would take up in a land fill if they were not recycled....

I think plastic water bottles globally consume a lot more land fill than watch parts. Maybe a couple hundred trillion times more.
Needle, haystack. Worse than trying to find a step up ring in your bag in the dark!
 

Boidem

Suspended
Nov 16, 2022
306
245
Exactly, you would take the phone and not a camera - because the Z9 isn’t versatile enough to be manageable in that situation. Are you not seeing our point here at all?
No; I'd use my 'phone cos I'd just want to be chilling out at a picnic. If someone wanted me to take some 'nice' pics, I might take my Z6 and 24-70 along. But I wouldn't be going all out to take the most amazing pics ever; it's a picnic ffs. In that scenario, a 'phone is fine.

The Z9 is all all-round extremely capable photographic tool. The Leica M11 is quite limited by comparison. The Z9 can do anything the M11 can. The M11 can't do everything the Z9 can. It has inferior specs in most areas, no AF or IS at all, and is based on ancient tech that was surpassed decades ago. That's not to say it isn't an excellent cam though, before anyone tries to twist my words into something they're not.
Snippy comments when you are shown to be wrong.
Sorry; what am I wrong about? All I did was post factual information from the respective manufacturers' own websites. So; not actually wrong. Apology accepted.
There you go making it about the money again. You yourself have shown above that the money is the same regardless of your chosen kit load out and the resale values by far outstrip the resale on the non-Leicas and so your point about the money is utter nonsense. I can point at countless examples where the Leica purchase is more sensible than other brands in terms of TCO. Again, which bit of this are you not understanding?
I am more than aware of the s/h value of Leica equipment; you slate me for 'making it all about the money', yet there you are talking about the resale value. Confusing. You may have a point regarding such, but it also means us povvos can't afford even s/h Leica gear either, You see? Always alternate perspectives on things. I tend to buy stuff to use, rather than as an 'investment'. Most of my Nikon gear I'll likely keep forever really, so. Whatevs. There's nothing I'm not understanding. Just so you know.
 

Boidem

Suspended
Nov 16, 2022
306
245
The only effective point I've been able to ascertain from your walls of text are your intense dislike of the word Leica. It is literally triggering you every time you read it in this thread.
Ok so let's clear this up once and for all. I have no problem at all with the word 'Leica'. Quite why you've extrapolated this I have absolutely no idea. Perhaps you only see what you want to see. I'll accept you're mistaken, and that's fine. But don't go misquoting me or making things up.

If you actually read my posts properly, you'll see that I have no problem with Leica cameras, lenses or most people who use them. The company makes outstanding, often peerless optical and scientific equipment. It's position in the world of photography is deservedly legendary. Some of our most iconic images of our times are taken using Leica cameras. Some of the greatest names in photography have used Leicas. I have respect and admiration for that company, for what they've given photography.

The only issue I have that concerns the brand, is with the mythologising and hyperbole that surrounds it. I have enough experience and knowledge to be able to see through this. It's superfluous and unnecessary. The company has a good enough reputation without needing to resort to Lenny Kravitz special editions, or marketing BS, or people prattling on about such subjective notions as 'the Leica Look' etc. Such things didn't exist when I was doing film photography way back; some people chose Leica simply because they are good tools, not because of any mythologising or marketing BS. But then, the internet didn't exist back then either, certainly not in the form it is now. So you didn't have the constant regurgitation of pretentious waffle. And actually, Leica prices weren't as high relative to other brands, as they are now.

I'm just like the kid in the story of the Emperor's New Clothes; I see past the BS and see things for what they really are.

If you choose to spend your money on such things, enjoy them for what they are. You don't need to regurgitate pretentious waffle about them, cos they're good enough without all that. That's all. So let's put this to bed, and get on with our lives.
 
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