What advantage do you get by using a disk image instead of the raw MKV files? I suppose you get the full menus and such?
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Hope for official Blu-Ray option in new Mac Pro?
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What advantage do you get by using a disk image instead of the raw MKV files? I suppose you get the full menus and such?
Yeah, let's hope it never dies and only changes form and format. Printed media weather printed on paper, bakeolite, magnetic media, or burnt foil encased in plastic is something I hope we never lose.
Also to keep in mind is that it's pretty much only the USA that's internet crazy. If you look at the usage maps in global overlay there's a few other hot-spots but most of that is (or could be) businesses and such in places like HongKong, a little in London, and so on. But it seems that it's mostly only Americans who spend so much time on-line and depend on it for their entertainment, study, hobby, news, socialization, and etc. Other areas on the planet don't seem to embrace the net nearly as much. So "doing away with" printed media forms would be bad for almost everyone else. So kinda selfish - but that too is an American thing..
For several reasons that folks always tip-toe around in these discussions. That it happens to slightly help iTunes sales/rentals is just a "bonus" for Apple.
1. A small contributor is probably Jobs (and NEXT since there are several of them still at Apple) experience with magneto-optical drives on the NeXT cube. It wasn't really the key differentiating factor they hoped it to be. It is "nice" having more storage on a 'walking around' disk, but that gets offset by the limited places can insert the disk to get data back out. In short, if it isn't a rapidly adopted standard, then the utility is limited.
2. Some folks forget now the Blu-Ray HD DVD format war. The fratricide (between optical disks ) war to replace the DVD wasted alot of time and effort. 2002-2008, almost six years is a long time.
It is likely there was a small bet by Apple that the "format war" would inhibit Blu-Ray adoption perhaps to an extent that it would fail to take off. It was inhibited but not completely.
Apple tends to either create their own standards or adopt those of others that are well behaved and beneficial to Apple & users. The transition from CD to DVD went pretty smoothly. The Blu-Ray transition turned back into another squabble VHS vs Beta war. Even if Blu eventually worked these repetitive "format wars" were eventually going to cause lingering problems.
3. Costs. Related to the above but one of the prime motivations for the format war was greed. Licensing fees. java vs. microsoft's firmware. blu lasers vs. higher compression. hd copy protection.
Apple hates other folks DRM. Their own DRM they are tolerant of as a business necessity because need to try to protect the content of the 3rd parties they are trying to derive income from.
But the underlying factor here is that if there is going to be a major war every time an evolutionary step is due to happen then the media is more "drama' than it is worth. For example, due to repressed volumes the price of next generation optical players stayed higher for at least 2 years longer than it should have. That was only going to lead to higher component costs for Apple if they jumped in. If the adoption had been rapid and costs dropped quickly then Apple probably would have jumped on board.
if a ODD costs $40-80 then if dropped then a portion (or all ) of that can go into other components that a broader set of users can leverage ( e.g., more RAM. more HDD/SDD storage. )
4. Blu-ray is 25GB. 50 is only for "dual layer". ( eventual higher capacities was a benefit of going Blue but it took a while for that to appear. )
5. Speed. While USB 3.0 thumb drives aren't cheap yet, they will be much more affordable in the future using a backwards compatible socket. Users can migrate their data to a faster format over time, at their own pace independent of what Apple puts inside the device ( presuming Apple keeps pace with USB socket evolution over time. )
6. Space. For better or worse more "stuff" can be kept in the user's "online" storage device. People don't have to use boxes and cabinets to store tapes/disks/albums etc.
All of those factors don't eliminate the subset of folks using ODD were speed, space, and cost don't matter. However, these factors do reduce the percentage of users using the devices. Once the percentage falls low enough, then it doesn't need to be included for everyone to buy.
For a USB 3.0 or FW ODD an external drive is no slower than an internal one. The format is slow. Other than quirky, limited BIOS boot properties in some situations there is very little that is a unique upside of an internal ODD.
It seems that their philosophy is that optical discs themselves are outdated and there is no need to jump on a dying format. There is considerable speculation whether the next MP will even have an optical drive at all.
Except in my life..which is why I have a super drive and BR drive and will continue to do so in the future.
Apple should have made the iTunes media the same quality as blu ray, THEN worry about getting rid of optical discs.
Hi CausticPuppy. Yes I get the full menu like you're playing the blu ray disc itself on your machine. But MKV is also fine.
If its a 3U rack size case, then it can fit a drive in easily, I have several 2U HP Lefthands plus numerous DL380s with disks plus optical drives and are a damn sight more powerful that the hardware in a mac pro.
So its not a case of "making space" as its easy to add one.
Optical media is not an outdated piece of tech, aside from tape it is probably the most efficient method of moving data about outside of FTP, shares etc.
Our marketing dept gets through tons of DVD's sending out print work, promo stuff etc.
Besides higher quality there is another good reason for Blu-ray. It is platform independent. That is one of the same reasons that I like Photoshop.
I prefer using Photoshop on Windows. However I like Mac OS better so I work in Photoshop for Mac. If Apple decides it really want kill OS X or real desktop computers I have got Windows to fall back on. If Microsoft continues to shoot itself in each foot (as well as in that private area in between) I'll stay with Mac.
With Blu-ray there is even more independence; Mac, Windows, portable BR players and home theater BR devices. I like that I can watch an mkv on my computer, use the disk for the additional features or take it to a friend's house to watch. Try that with iTunes downloads.
I just replaced the failed optical drive on an iMac 10,1 with a Blu-ray reader from OWC.
I prefer using Photoshop on Windows. However I like Mac OS better so I work in Photoshop for Mac. If Apple decides it really want kill OS X or real desktop computers I have got Windows to fall back on. If Microsoft continues to shoot itself in each foot (as well as in that private area in between) I'll stay with Mac.
With Blu-ray there is even more independence; Mac, Windows, portable BR players and home theater BR devices. I like that I can watch an mkv on my computer, use the disk for the additional features or take it to a friend's house to watch. Try that with iTunes downloads.
I just replaced the failed optical drive on an iMac 10,1 with a Blu-ray reader from OWC.
Transported to the friends house on what? An iPad? It works. If going there and back there are options.
Send it someplace you are not going? Sure, it is easier to send just the media on a one-way trip on just a cheap disk.
Oh man...!!! You had to go and say that didn't you?!?!
Now I totally want a shoebox full of thumb drives! And I can see an electronics project with lots of soldering in my future too:
You weenie!
I don't think so
I don't think Blu-ray is dead, I just think it's the end, that, and higher capacity/layer discs.
I mean I like 125 GB BDXL, IN LIKE 5 YEARS tho, cause 1 disc is $50+ and 50 GB is $1.25 but still that's will be cool...
Burn your whole MP3/AAC collection to 1 Blu-Ray
Put it in a drawer, etc...
To me it's worth it. I just don't think there is going to be anything "Consumer wise to replace this 'END'" cause you don't really need it.
But having the capability is NICE...
I mean it's funny I just had to fax something today...
So, DEAD? eh...
I don't think Blu-ray is dead, I just think it's the end, that, and higher capacity/layer discs.
I mean I like 125 GB BDXL, IN LIKE 5 YEARS tho, cause 1 disc is $50+ and 50 GB is $1.25 but still that's will be cool...
Burn your whole MP3/AAC collection to 1 Blu-Ray
Put it in a drawer, etc...
To me it's worth it. I just don't think there is going to be anything "Consumer wise to replace this 'END'" cause you don't really need it.
But having the capability is NICE...
I mean it's funny I just had to fax something today...
So, DEAD? eh...
Heh, I can still remember the last thing I faxed... in 2003... to Apple!
I would like to see an official Blu-ray option. Even though I'm capable of buying and installing my own drive (like I've already done with my existing system), I'd still select the BTO option if it existed as a matter of principle; to show Apple that there is at least one person who is glad to see the option there
I actually recently submitted feedback on this, requesting a Blu-ray option, or at the very least to not get rid of the 5.25" bay in the next model.
What I don't understand is that some people are actively hostile to the idea of having an option. Do they think that the optional Blu-ray drive is going to run over their cat or something?
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Heh, I can still remember the last thing I faxed... in 2003... to Apple!
I would like to see an official Blu-ray option. Even though I'm capable of buying and installing my own drive (like I've already done with my existing system), I'd still select the BTO option if it existed as a matter of principle; to show Apple that there is at least one person who is glad to see the option there
I actually recently submitted feedback on this, requesting a Blu-ray option, or at the very least to not get rid of the 5.25" bay in the next model.
What I don't understand is that some people are actively hostile to the idea of having an option. Do they think that the optional Blu-ray drive is going to run over their cat or something?
someone put a bit of the old ultra-violence in the kool aid
It will never happen. Apple hates blu-ray.
I really do not understand the problem? Just order a machine with an empty cd bay (or take out the cd drive) and order an aftermarket blu-ray.
edit: On my iMac I have an internal DVD. I bought an external blu-ray and it runs fine. Actually more than fine as it specs at a higher speed (I have yet to test it but that seems right) being a newer drive.
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What I don't understand is that some people are actively hostile to the idea of having an option. Do they think that the optional Blu-ray drive is going to run over their cat or something?
In part because design is about making trade-offs/compromises. There tends to be no "this significantly large space is used for nothing" inside of a system. For example, if 95% of Mac Pro users have needs driving the usage of 1-3 2.5" drives with their systems and only 2% have need for a blu-ray drive then it makes no sense to assign a 5.25" bay to the core design which most users aren't going to use (or have to leverage hacks to to use). An option which makes people pay for something they have low utility value for typically results in complaints.
Just throwing the label "optional" on it doesn't necessarily mean it has zero impact on others.
Again a non-issue being simple-mindedly speculated on. You would make the worst chess player ever as you don't seem to consider anything but a single simplistic idea. At least this one isn't a mini-novel. It's almost like a "straw-man" convention which has become so commonly identifiable as of late - where a person starts with a single false premiss and then builds an entire mountain of BS to prop it up.
- We are not the designers. The design is set. It includes two optical bays in MacPro and one optical bay in almost all other products.
- There is exactly "this space is empty" in most shipped MacPro configurations.
- It has nothing to do with 2.5" drives. There is a DVD 5.25" drive included in every MacPro. Some people want that space to be used by next-gen technology (BlueRay). Those people have the option of asking Apple to consider it or spending $50 to do it them selves.
- No hacks are leveraged - or even used - LOL
- No one sane buys a $3k to $20K computer and then complains about a $50 optional expenditure nor a $50 bundled unit in the case Apple decided to include one as standard.
- The word "Option" does indeed mean there is potentially zero impact.
There are a small number of people that demand a Blu-Ray drive on a product that only has a very small niche in Apple's current product portfolio.
Apple has clearly stated in the past that they do not view Blu-Ray as part of their product strategy moving forward.
There are only two products in Apple's range that have an Optical Drive at present, and there is a good chance by the end of 2013 there will be no Apple products with an optical drive as standard.
While I understand your desire to have a Blu-Ray Option, to answer the OP's question there is no hope of getting a built in Blu-Ray drive on a future mac.
Would be nice to have this option for the people who use it, but personally I am moving away from all external media formats. Right now I am looking to convert what DVD's and blu-ray's I have to a digital format. Some are easier than others.
And? How is that relevant to anything I said? Wait, I can answer that. It's not. At all. So why did you quote me in order to tell us what we already know?
And also, we already have a BlueRay option. You tear out the DVD player in your current machine and sell it for $20. Then spend $55 for a blue-ray player and install it in the same location. Works perfectly! All Apple software works with it perfectly for all DVD and CD functions as well as many BR functions. What BR functions are not supported directly can be filled in with a cheap 3rd party app.
I haven't checked but I believe this works for iMac and MacMini as well - and probably any laptops that come with internal DVD drives also.
Again, the option already exists. But I know what you mean about media. I gave up on it about 4 years ago when my stacks reached 4TB - Over 1,000 DVD disks.
What a mess! These days I only use disks for give-aways or like to bring some data to a party or something. I mean besides diver disks and distros.
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Exactly. Worst case we do not get a bay and have to use an external. The burning process is not fast even in relation to USB2 so unless you just hate having an external device it is not a problem. Since we do not know what the pro will look like yet I decided to assume the worst and bought an oh-so-expensive external. Plays blu-rays? Check. Toast sees it? Check.
Yeah, I've toyed with the idea of a blue ray drive for my XPS-12 (diskless laptop) and went as far as looking at prices. It's weird... the internal drives are $49 to $59 and the externals are like $155 to $200 with the exact same drive in. WTH? Hehehe So it's actually cheaper to buy the internal and connect up a used $20 PSU to it.
The external drives for $60 to $75 seemed inferior so I didn't really consider them. What did you end up going with?