Horrible value

[294307]

They've pretty much told people to leave. And many have listened. Professionals who need powerful machines have pretty much moved back to Windows. Refusing to update machines, gluing everything in, maximizing margins by being consumer hostile, etc... has been Apple's answer to consumers.

Very disappointed to a company I used to be VERY loyal towards.

I am not quite at the point of moving away from the Mac platform, but I do very much agree with what you are saying. They really harmed their professional market with some decisions in recent years, and it's not a market that Apple has historically had difficulty getting into and being successful, versus the business market for example.

As an individual I am still happy with the Mac platform, but I am certainly more concerned about Apple's roadmap for the Mac business considering it now only represents a small part of the company's earnings (but as an individual unit, a huge amount of course), but I still have a lot of optimism in the Mac platform and what's to come. I am looking forward to seeing what might come to the Mac this month or into next year - I really do think they will address what a lot of us pro users have been waiting for. For me, I really hope to see Apple release a "Mac mini Pro" that sits between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro line, or at least update their current Mac mini line to use quad core processors again and faster graphics that support 4K @ 60 Hz. Any machine that only supports 4K displays at 30 Hz is no support at all in my view.

I still have faith that Apple will deliver. They've surprised us before, and I think they will again. I don't know about you but I am still happy with Apple, but I am certainly more reserved.

 

[dogslobber]

I really do think they will address what a lot of us pro users have been waiting for. For me, I really hope to see Apple release a "Mac mini Pro" that sits between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro line, or at least update their current Mac mini line to use quad core processors again and faster graphics that support 4K @ 60 Hz. Any machine that only supports 4K displays at 30 Hz is no support at all in my view.

The 2015 MBA can drive a 4K display at 60hz so I'd assume the 2016 Mini can do the like.
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There's been consistently a varied range of high spec 2014 Mac Minis on the UK Refurb store so they'll be around for some time to come even after any 2016 model appears. I haven't seen a 2012 model in months.

It's just a bit galling to be spending upwards of £1359 on a refurbished Mini with 8Gb RAM (soldered) and 1Tb of PCIe

[...]

Both are ridiculously expensive ways of adding functionality to what should be a cheap device.

If and when Apple release new Mac hardware next, we in the UK will have to add another 8-15% to prices - if Apple don't change the $ price - because of the UK/$ exchange rate taking a dip, despite flash prices falling over the last 2 years).

There are no Minis in the USA store at all. I had a look at the UK store and see the 8gb model for 1360 quid but at this point I wouldn't touch any 2014 that isn't 16gb which will cost 800$ minimum in the USA.

As to pricing, it's England so you comes to expect to be ripped off There's no way in hell I would buy Apple kit if I lived there again.

 

[294307]

The 2015 MBA can drive a 4K display at 60hz so I'd assume the 2016 Mini can do the like.
[doublepost=1475350993][/doublepost]

There are no Minis in the USA store at all. I had a look at the UK store and see the 8gb model for 1360 quid but at this point I wouldn't touch any 2014 that isn't 16gb which will cost 800$ minimum in the USA.

As to pricing, it's England so you comes to expect to be ripped off There's no way in hell I would buy Apple kit if I lived there again.

Please forgive me, but England != UK. People mistake England for the UK and vice versa. It is not one and the same.

But yes you're right, pretty much everywhere outside the USA gets higher prices, but it is my understanding that Apple prices in the USA don't include the sales tax that might apply to the consumer at the point of sale. Apple's listed prices in the UK include the VAT, so that accounts for some of the difference.

 

[dogslobber]

Please forgive me, but England != UK. People mistake England for the UK and vice versa. It is not one and the same.

It isn't but nobody elsewhere really cares. Once you've dealt with that for a few years then you'd be indifferent to it too and just refer to the whole place as England.

 

[294307]

It isn't but nobody elsewhere really cares. Once you've dealt with that for a few years then you'd be indifferent to it too and just refer to the whole place as England.

A lot of people care. No one in the UK refers to the whole country as England because it's not just a regional technicality. But you don't care, OK. I'll try and get back on topic then...

The 2015 MBA can drive a 4K display at 60hz so I'd assume the 2016 Mini can do the like.

I assume that too but I'm hoping for a bit more than just a simple bump to a slightly better integrated GPU that can handle 4K @ 60 Hz. From my research it seems the Iris Graphics used in the Mac mini do technically support 4K @ 60 Hz, but not when combined with the U-series CPUs they use, so that's why the current Mac minis don't support it.

 

[Larry-K]

You're almost certain to be disappointed with the 2016 Mini later this month as it's gonna turn our world upside down. Perhaps grab a 2014 version while they're still out there.

Can't wait to see how they've screwed it up this time,
but if it makes the 2014's look good, then it has to be a massive fail.

 

[294307]

Can't wait to see how they've screwed it up this time,
but if it makes the 2014's look good, then it has to be a massive fail.

Better yet, perhaps they might surprise us and decide soldering memory in place was a terrible idea.

 

[Boyd01]

Apple's listed prices in the UK include the VAT, so that accounts for some of the difference.

That gets rather complicated in the US, since there is no national sales tax. Each state has its own tax policy, and some cities pile another tax on top of that. For example, if I buy a $500 Mini in my state of New Jersey, it costs me $535. The same Mini would cost $544 if it was purchased in New York. There is no sales tax in Delaware, so it would cost $500 there.

To further confuse things, I can buy a Mini online from B&H Photo in New York City. If I go there in person to pick it up, it will be $544. But if I have them send it to me (with free next day shipping to my area), it only costs $500 because a business in New York is not authorized to collect sales tax for a product shipped out of state.

 

[dogslobber]

That gets rather complicated in the US, since there is no national sales tax. Each state has its own tax policy, and some cities pile another tax on top of that. For example, if I buy a $500 Mini in my state of New Jersey, it costs me $535. The same Mini would cost $544 if it was purchased in New York. There is no sales tax in Delaware, so it would cost $500 there.

To further confuse things, I can buy a Mini online from B&H Photo in New York City. If I go there in person to pick it up, it will be $544. But if I have them send it to me (with free next day shipping to my area), it only costs $500 because a business in New York is not authorized to collect sales tax for a product shipped out of state.

When Britain exits the EU then VAT will be abolished so prices should come down by 20%.

 

[Bollockser]

two i7 2012 models with scores of 10784 and 11759.

My 2012 2.3 Quad i7 scored 11998. I missed admission to the 12000+ club by a measly 2 hehe

 

[294307]

When Britain exits the EU then VAT will be abolished so prices should come down by 20%.

You're not being serious, are you?

That gets rather complicated in the US, since there is no national sales tax. Each state has its own tax policy, and some cities pile another tax on top of that. For example, if I buy a $500 Mini in my state of New Jersey, it costs me $535. The same Mini would cost $544 if it was purchased in New York. There is no sales tax in Delaware, so it would cost $500 there.

To further confuse things, I can buy a Mini online from B&H Photo in New York City. If I go there in person to pick it up, it will be $544. But if I have them send it to me (with free next day shipping to my area), it only costs $500 because a business in New York is not authorized to collect sales tax for a product shipped out of state.

I see. If you purchased a product for delivery from another state, would you need to pay the Sales Tax that applies in the state you live in, or is that only for goods purchased from a business/retailer operating in the state you reside in?

I don't know if this this is the case with Sales Tax in U.S. states, but VAT here only applies to consumers and not businesses. Any business that happens to pay VAT on a product can ask the government for a refund of the VAT paid if it was purchased for business use at a company that is required to charge VAT to consumers (this happens when businesses reaches a certain income threshold).

 

[dogslobber]

You're not being serious, are you?

That's what the brexit campaign promised although they also advertised on a bus too.

 

[294307]

That's what the brexit campaign promised although they also advertised on a bus too.

Both sides had lied throughout the referendum campaign, it's just what the media likes to focus on and bring attention to that draws notice. I highly doubt an abolishment of VAT was promised, because everyone knows VAT cannot be abolished even well after the UK withdraws from the European Union. The cost of membership represents a small amount of the total income VAT brings into the treasury, and a very small amount of the total income of all taxes and duties combined.

 

[dogslobber]

Both sides had lied throughout the referendum campaign, it's just what the media likes to focus on and bring attention to that draws notice. I highly doubt an abolishment of VAT was promised, because everyone knows VAT cannot be abolished even well after the UK withdraws from the European Union. The cost of membership represents a small amount of the total income VAT brings into the treasury, and a very small amount of the total income of all taxes and duties combined.

The lesson for the lies told by brexit is that you can only take what is said at face value. They promised this. They promised that. All lies and now the country is destined to suffer the consequences.

Update: Actually, looks like VAT ends next March in the UK.

 

[294307]

The lesson for the lies told by brexit is that you can only take what is said at face value. They promised this. They promised that. All lies and now the country is destined to suffer the consequences.

UK will be fine. Time sorts these things out. It is just hyperbole to suggest the UK's economy will crash. It is doing remarkably well in light of the current value of the sterling, and retailers in the UK have publicly stated they have noticed no changes in consumers' spending behaviour since June.

 

[dogslobber]

UK will be fine. Time sorts these things out. It is just hyperbole to suggest the UK's economy will crash. It is doing remarkably well in light of the current value of the sterling, and retailers in the UK have publicly stated they have noticed no changes in consumers' spending behaviour since June.

This animation is the best way to think of brexit:

http://media.giphy.com/media/tPkXituB52uJ2/giphy.gif

 

[theluggage]

That gets rather complicated in the US, since there is no national sales tax.

...which is not the point. The salient point is that ticket prices for consumer goods in the UK typically include 20% VAT whereas, in the US, you may have to pay local sales tax on top. So, when comparing UK prices with US prices you need to divide the UK price by 1.2 (and with the £ at ~$1.30 that brings it close to $1=£1). Plus, the consumer rights are stronger in the UK, so there's no need to buy Applecare just to insure against faults after 90 days.

Hey, the people who go through the documentation inserting "u"s into "color" and swapping "r"s and "e"s around need to eat, too

When Britain exits the EU then VAT will be abolished so prices should come down by 20%.

No. When Britain exits the EU the government will have the power to abolish VAT, or at least add new exemptions (e.g. domestic fuel), which are currently cast in stone by the EU. Doesn't mean that they will, and there's absolutely no reason to suppose that they will. Oh, and they'll also be free to abolish those stronger consumer rights, which are also an EU thing.

 

[dandeco]

This is why when I wanted a Mac Mini, I went with a used/refurbished 2012 quad-core Intel Core i7 Mini, and it only cost me $500! Its' performance is closer to a quad-core 21" iMac, to me at least.

 

[Boyd01]

I see. If you purchased a product for delivery from another state, would you need to pay the Sales Tax that applies in the state you live in, or is that only for goods purchased from a business/retailer operating in the state you reside in?

Like I said, it's complicated and each state can have its own rules. However, AFAIK, a company can only collect sales tax if it has a "business presence" in the state where the product or service is delivered. So, in my example, B&H Photo only operates in New York State. So if I purchase online and have it shipped to my home, they do not charge any tax. If I make the same purchase but choose the option to pick the Mac up at their store, then I would pay New York State and City tax.

If I buy the same Mac online at apple.com and have it shipped to my home in New Jersey, I would pay sales tax because apple operates physicals stores in New Jersey.

To further complicate things, in the first scenario where I pay no tax when buying online from a New York business, the State of New Jersey has a different view of this. It is their position that, even though B&H Photo is not authorized to collect New Jersey sales tax, that doesn't mean I don't owe it. They expect me to voluntarily come forward and list all out of state purchases where no sales tax was charged, then send New Jersey a check for the 7% tax that wasn't collected. Even better, if I had bought the Mac in a state that charged, for example, 5% tax, then they expect me to send them another 2% so my total tax is 7%, as though I had bought the item in New Jersey. I have looked around a bit, and it turns out that many (if not most) states have similar tax laws - it's called a "use tax".

I'll let you make your own guess as to how many people actually come forward and voluntarily pay the use tax.

There has been legislation proposed to create a national system for online merchants to collect taxes for other states but it continues to stall. As you might imagine, the idea isn't very popular. I am of mixed opinion, of course I want to save money and I buy stuff without tax, but out of state companies really do have an advantage over local businesses. I constantly see reminders of this, there used to be a number of large local computer and consumer electronics stores here. Now Best Buy is pretty much all that's left.


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...which is not the point.

Point? I wasn't trying to make a "point". @bbnck was curious about how the sales tax system works in the US and I was merely trying to explain.