How can Apple sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 and call it "Pro"

[ThailandToo]

Greed! If you make it the same spec wise you’re still losing thunderbolt port, too and paying damned near the same cash. Just get the 14” with M3 Pro base and can get black at that time.

I don’t agree with the utter crap of 8GB of RAM and haven’t for years. Maybe in a MacBook Air base model. But even then it’s impossible to get upgraded RAM anywhere on sale except from Apple. Like Best Buy doesn’t have them. Have to wait six months and go to B&H Photo or some company like that.

I want the fully loaded 16” MBP in space black. But I don’t need it and next October I will want the M4 with 256GB of RAM for the same price.

 

[Technerd108]

Greed! If you make it the same spec wise you’re still losing thunderbolt port, too and paying damned near the same cash. Just get the 14” with M3 Pro base and can get black at that time.

I don’t agree with the utter crap of 8GB of RAM and haven’t for years. Maybe in a MacBook Air base model. But even then it’s impossible to get upgraded RAM anywhere on sale except from Apple. Like Best Buy doesn’t have them. Have to wait six months and go to B&H Photo or some company like that.

I want the fully loaded 16” MBP in space black. But I don’t need it and next October I will want the M4 with 256GB of RAM for the same price.

Honestly if you compare the M2 13" MBP to the base model 14" M3 MBP the two base models cost almost the same and you get so much more on the 14"!!

Two USB c ports were all you got on the 13" MBP but somehow the new 14" sucks and Apple is being greedy when they give you more?

We all want more ram and you are right Apple reserves the upgrades for themselves and charges a lot for it. But look at Microsoft Surface line. They start at the same 8gb ram and 256gb storage. Of course you can get deals even on the higher ram models on surface line but who would buy a Surface laptop 5 with a year old processor, same screen and only one USB port. Lol

 

[Technerd108]

M3 Pro Has Fewer Performance Cores, Lower Memory Bandwidth Than Previous-Generation M2 Pro, Indicating A Notable Downgrade

The M3 Pro might be fabricated on the cutting-edge 3nm process, but in specifications, Apple has downgraded the SoC compared to the M2 Pro

wccftech.com

As much as I don't always care for this website the news is pretty interesting and explains a lot. I personally think Apple lowered core counts because of thermal throttling. With the integrated GPU being a lot more hungry, the 3nm process not being very optimized, and bandwidth cuts all points to Apple not getting what it expected from the chip.

You can bet Apple didn't cut bandwidth to save money. They did it because they didn't have a choice.

 

[progx]

The battery life of the M3 14 inch is up to 22 hours, versus the M3 Pro 14 inch which is up to 18. That alone makes it a compelling case for purchase being able to use the laptop a lot longer on a single charge. Trading raw power for efficiency. I'd say that's pretty pro.

Thanks to you, now the 14-inch MBP M3 Pro is back in the lead to replace my 2018 i7 mini.

If you're referring to the lack of an extra USB-C port, sure. That was a weird decision that I'm really wondering why they did that. Is it that big a deal having one less USB-C port? Ehh, not really. I only ever use one USB-C port on my 14 inch anyhow. Which ultimately won't matter much since the HDMI and SDXC is still there, and said HDMI is 2.1.

Limitation of the plain M3, plus adding the HDMI and SD card reader added more stress and prevention from adding a third port at least.

So you weren't planning on getting a Macbook Pro to begin with, you just wanted a big display. What was the point of this thread then? The only point with merit is the fact that M3 is 8gb of RAM base spec, but that's a problem with M3's base spec config, not the laptop.

Well said too.

 

[Toutou]

The 13 inch was 1080p60 while the 14 inch is 1440p120 with ProMotion

Both a little off. The 13" was 2560 × 1600, while the 14" is 3024 x 1964.

 

[Mick235711]

Personally, what I'm most frustrated about with AS MBPs are not really their base configs (someone probably just needs 8 GB, after all, is giving their choice), but rather the following two points:
- RAM UPGRADE PRICE! It's just plain robbery right now.
- The lack of any large RAM configurations in standard configurations. Look at all the products that have a M2/3 plain right now (MBA13/15, MBP14, Mac Mini, iMac); none of the standard configurations have 16GB of RAM! The most outrageous one is the MBP14 higher-tier, with a wildly disproportional configuration of 8GB+1TB. (Same for M2/3 Pro; none of the standard configurations come with >18GB.) The reason this is important is that even though you can always manually select a higher RAM, third-party vendors will mostly only provide the standard configuration of those machines, and usually only the standard configurations will get discounts. Looking through the past "New Lowest Price" posts on MR, you can see that, >95% of the time, the discount only applies to those standard configurations. Heck, it is nearly impossible to even see custom BTOs get sold on third-party sites, much less discounted. This also makes buying past-generation high-ram BTOs extremely difficult since the official website no longer provides the configurations, and third parties often don't have non-standard stock. You usually either go to Certified Refurbished (with a high price that is often not lowered with the introduction of new generation, making buying anything >2 Gen older here not very wise, and you also have to be lucky to find a specific configuration) or go second-handed.

EDIT: It does seem that Apple actually realized this problem; the new M3 Pro MBP16 comes with tiers of 18+512 and 36+512, while in 2019, 2021, and early 2023, the MBP16 standard configurations had always been 16+512 and 16+1T. That's great, and it suggests even more that the MBP14 M3 high-tier should have been 16+512, not 8+1T. (Personally, I'd like to see that MBP16 mid-tier should be 32+1T, but I guess that'll introduce too high price gap?)

 

[nvmls]

What if people are buying them, and actually enjoy using them to do things? I’d imagine they’d sell millions of them…

So does McDonalds & Coca Cola.

 

[boak]

You forgot you buy a PRO machine, few hundred more expensive than Air.

The few hundred is in reality just a $200 difference for a superior screen, more ports, a fan and a larger battery.
13" MBA with upgraded M2 chip, 8 GB memory and 512 GB storage is $1399.

Your point?

 

[boak]

There's one group complaining about 8 GB memory being labelled as Pro - Pro branding doesn't mean "for professionals" for Apple, just means higher tier.

There's another group complaining about pricing just because they want/need more memory - many don't, which means they don't need to pay more than they need with a base memory of 8GB.

 

[ThailandToo]

Honestly if you compare the M2 13" MBP to the base model 14" M3 MBP the two base models cost almost the same and you get so much more on the 14"!!

Two USB c ports were all you got on the 13" MBP but somehow the new 14" sucks and Apple is being greedy when they give you more?

We all want more ram and you are right Apple reserves the upgrades for themselves and charges a lot for it. But look at Microsoft Surface line. They start at the same 8gb ram and 256gb storage. Of course you can get deals even on the higher ram models on surface line but who would buy a Surface laptop 5 with a year old processor, same screen and only one USB port. Lol

You better check them specs of that base model MBP with M3 SoC. You may be disappointed with the port selection as well as other things and no they’re not the same price.

 

[robertosh]

'Pro' does not mean 'Professional' since long time ago in Apple ecosystem. It's just a way to say "expensive". In fact, apart from some content creation use cases, real Pro users do not even use Apple ecosystem at all.

 

[Big Bad D]

8GB RAM is enough for booting up the OS and opening Safari before you start swapping to the SSD 🫤 By Apple standards that may be a Pro workflow, but it's not by anybody else's. A real Pro workflow as they advertise will kill the SSD in 3 years. The SSD is fast enough to where you may not notice the performance problem too much, but you're committing acts of violence on that SSD. 3 years into Apple silicon, and I know of 2 people who have killed their base models. It seems like the 256GB SSDs last for around 300TB of data written before they die - one of them needed just 7 months to reach those numbers. Mine is at 100TB written and does already report "bad sectors" together with having kernel panics, although I've had it for 3 years so at least that's better. And still, below 5 years is the time I'd expect a $500 Windows computer to last before it starts having problems, not a computer at 3 times that price. It's OK to have 8GB of RAM as base but not while you advertise the product as a Pro machine and explicitly mention longevity, telling users they will last "many years" in your keynote. Straight up lie if you use it like that.


Exactly.

I don’t disagree with the principle of what you say. My feeling is to ignore Apple’s “Pro” marketing and why get frustrated that Apple sells a basic configuration? Simply select what‘s needed for “pro“ or any other usage.

 

[boss.king]

In fact, apart from some content creation use cases, real Pro users do not even use Apple ecosystem at all.

This is a blatant lie. What's a "real Pro user" anyway?

 

[lowkey]

There's one group complaining about 8 GB memory being labelled as Pro - Pro branding doesn't mean "for professionals" for Apple, just means higher tier.

Please tell me what the 8GB/256gb M3 MacBook Pro is a higher tier above?

There is literally no lower configuration they sell.

 

[boss.king]

Please tell me what the 8GB/256gb M3 MacBook Pro is a higher tier above?

There is literally no lower configuration they sell.

The base config is 8/512, so it’s higher than the base config of the Air, the Mini, and the iMac.

 

[lowkey]

^ I see. Thanks. That’s a pretty sad indictment though.

IMO 16/256 is a better option than 8/512 as there are ways to expand storage such as external drives and iCloud.

Weird that the $3,000 AUD model with 1TB SSD still only has 8GB of ram. That’s an expensive laptop for 8GB of ram to be in with no way to expand it.

Also weird is the Mac Mini with the M2Pro chip comes with 16GB ram but the MacBook “Pro” with the M3Pro chip only comes with 8GB ram.

I wonder whether the Mac Mini with the M3Pro chip will be a downgraded to 8GB.

 

[phillytim]

Weird that the $3,000 AUD model with 1TB SSD still only has 8GB of ram. That’s an expensive laptop for 8GB of ram to be in with no way to expand it.

🎯 BINGO - and completely absurd.

Was that one of the default configurations on Apple’s website, or did you just spec it out with 1TB SSD and not adjust the RAM amount?

 

[lowkey]

🎯 BINGO - and completely absurd.

Was that one of the default configurations on Apple’s website, or did you just spec it out with 1TB SSD and not adjust the RAM amount?

No that’s the next default configuration above 8/512. Completely crazy combination IMO.

 

[MauiPa]

This is a made up problem where none exists. I had a Mac with 16GB of Ram, never used anywhere near that much. I replaced it with an M1 MBP with 8GB. It has been great and never ran into an issue. I will readily admit, that my use case is not everyone's, but if 8GB is great for me and many others, why should apple not sell 8GB. For those who need more, guess what? There are Macs with more RAM available.

Now, I believe as well as most people that apple charges too much for RAM and SSD upgrades.

 

[MauiPa]

🎯 BINGO - and completely absurd.

Was that one of the default configurations on Apple’s website, or did you just spec it out with 1TB SSD and not adjust the RAM amount?

the 14 MBP is only 1800, but if that is not enough RAM, get some more

 

[henkie]

This is a made up problem where none exists. I had a Mac with 16GB of Ram, never used anywhere near that much. I replaced it with an M1 MBP with 8GB. It has been great and never ran into an issue. I will readily admit, that my use case is not everyone's, but if 8GB is great for me and many others, why should apple not sell 8GB. For those who need more, guess what? There are Macs with more RAM available.

Now, I believe as well as most people that apple charges too much for RAM and SSD upgrades.

The problem is that it is not user upgradeable. So you have to decide on a 2000+ euro purchase beforehand that 8GB (and 512GB SSD) will suffice for now, but also the foreseeable future (i.e. 4+ years or so?). I have upgraded my 2011 mbp with additional ram and SSD after 2-3 years or so. This gave the laptop 3 years of additional life.
Turn it around, if 8GB would suffice ("M3 magic" --> in which some argue 8GB = 64GB of PC ram), why would anyone need 128GB in their MBP?? (M3 magic: 128GB = 1TB of PC ram!). It is because with 8GB you will start swapping very quickly...
And the upgrades are crazy expensive and at least the SSD, are not top of the bill components. To compare: the PS5 contains a 0.825TB SSD that is faster, but a complete PS5 is cheaper than upgrading your MBA from 0.256 to 1TB (+0.75 TB SSD). People must be big Apple apologists to defend this.

 

[DougiePhresh]

You forgot you buy a PRO machine, few hundred more expensive than Air.

You seem to forget that I am the one buying it - not you. Why do you care how many GB of RAM my computer has?

 

[cheesygrin]

I’m not sticking up for Apple for allowing any modern expensive computer to leave the factory with 8GB RAM - that is indefensible.

However, that doesn’t in itself mean it isn’t a “Pro” machine. There are many different types of professional user.

For example, say I’m a professional writer. That means I want a good quality, reliable laptop, with a great keyboard and screen, good battery life, and a durable chassis for travelling. The MacBook Pro fits that bill, and the lower end M3 gets better battery life than the higher end. Would I need more than 8GB for typing my articles/books etc ? Probably not.

Again, not defending Apple for their clear greed here - but the lack of RAM doesn’t take away from the other aspects that make it a “professional” machine.

 

[rorydaredking]

Its just rubbish isn't it.

That and of course the single screen limitation. My 2012 first model 15" retina could run 3 external displays. So can my i5 2018 13". My only option now is to buy a 'Max' for the odd times I need 3 displays and don't want to need display link hubs.

Which of course I have done. I'm fortunate my business can pay.

For what I actually need performance-wise a base M2/M3 with max RAM would do the job.

 

[Unami]

They always emphasize that they make the "best" computers. A laptop with 8gb soldered-in RAM does not fall into this category, no matter for how many people it might be suffice for a short time. It's like saying 5gb icloud is enough to backup 64+gb phones.

It's got planned obsolescence buit in - at that prices one can expect better. It might be a good computer, but it's still a bad value when viewed without a reality distortion field (and bad for the environment because it's not sustainable)

Yes, people get a CHOICE of getting bent over twice with apple's RAM prices - but it's still a choice where none of the outcomes is particularly desireable or "pro" for that matter (because as a working "pro" I usually value options and expandability at market value not at luxury prices)