How do I best use iCloud for backing up documents for a Mac?

[Marty_Macfly]

Hi All,


How do I best use iCloud for backing up documents for a Mac?
Is it best to simply periodically copy backups onto the iCloud folder?


3 questions:


Q1) Are the files really not on the local drive?!
I'm concerned that when I ticked the top option in screenshot 1 below, then the Folders "Desktop" and "Documents" disappeared off the local drive! (See screenshot 2). Are the folders now "Hidden" from view?!


Not having the files on the local drive - can the following happen?

Q2) When I have no internet - can it happen that I can't open the files, as not saved locally on Mac?
(Does this ever happen with these newer MacOSs ?!)


Q3) Updating files offline - Do I loose the edits?
(E.g. if I later open a file on another apple device, does the newer timestamp means the earlier edits done offline are lost?)




Hope you can advise.
Regards
Martin




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screenshot 1: Setting up the iCloud backup
> I ticked the top option below, in 1st attempt to back up Documents onto the iCloud.

Screenshot 2: Finder - Desktop and Documents folders disappeared - when turn't on iCloud backup

 

[Marty_Macfly]

I'd like to keep the back-up process simple and as bullet proof as possible.

For my use case:
It will be mainly this MBA that I will be doing all my edits and views. no need for sharing across my iPhones and and iPads.


I'm reading horror stories of people loosing all their files by accidentally turning this option on and then off again etc. They were lucky to restore with previous backups etc.

E.g. helpful accounts in below link.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/icloud-drive-desktop-documents-folder-options.2275290/


Hope you can advise
Martin

 

[/V\acpower]

1. Documents and Desktop folder are simply moved to a "Library Folder" where everything iCloud Drive is kept.

2. If you check "optimize storage on this Mac" option for iCloud Drive, then some files you rarely use in Documents will indeed be on the cloud only. But uncheck this and 100% of the files are kept locally.

3. I don't see why offline edits would be lost.

Also, anytime you delete a files from iCloud Drive, you can still access them for 30 days through www.icloud.com (in the iCloud Drive section, bottom right there is a link to recently deleted files.)

 

[James_C]

Martin,

iCloud is primarily a document sync service. Its main purpose is to sync your files on one Apple device to other Apple devices. It is not really a backup service, although it can partially function as one, if one of your devices fails as any documents stored in the cloud will still be be there. The reason that it is not really a backup solution if you accidentally delete a file or photo or it becomes corrupted then it will be replicated through the cloud and all your other devices. Yes it is possible to recover if you are within the 30 day window mentioned by @/V\acpower , but if you accidentally delete a file or it gets corrupted you might not notice for more than 30 days.

For a laptop I would either consider using either;

1. TimeMachine - With a external Drive connected directly to your MBA, or if you are the sort of person that 'forgets' to connect the external drive then you can look at a wireless solution. If your WiFi router supports external drives you can use TimeMachine via your Wifi Router with the benefit that once it is setup you can then forget about it. For additional security you can either use an app like Carbon Copy Cloner to make a full backup periodically and keep it offsite or use option 2 below.

2. Cloud Backup - Use a service like Backblaze to backup your Mac to the cloud.

 

[James_C]

Q2) When I have no internet - can it happen that I can't open the files, as not saved locally on Mac?
(Does this ever happen with these newer MacOSs ?!)

All iCloud Files are stored locally on your Mac and synced to the cloud - There are two exceptions to this rule.

1. If you have Optimise Mac Storage checked on in your iCloud settings (Apple ID) then old files may get moved to iCloud to save space on your Mac. I personally never enable this as I don't want my Mac deciding for me what files to move off my Mac when my local drive is full.

2. In Apple Photos > Preferences>iCloud there is an option to Optimise Mac Storage if you have iCloud Photos turned on. This is primarily for people who have a large Photo's Library on their Mac ( Mine is around 500GB) and they don't want to download the entire full resolution library to their iOS device as generally they are likely to have less storage space. If Turned on a lower resolution (smaller file) is downloaded to your device, but the full resolution file is uploaded to the cloud.

Q3) Updating files offline - Do I loose the edits?

No you will not loose edits while offline, they will sync back to iCloud when you are back on line.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Ideally, you should consider using a cloud backup service like Backblaze, as well as Time Machine, and Carbon Copy Cloner. Between those three, you should be covered in the event Time Machine makes a corrupt backup or the CCC drive fails etc.

Always have a backup of your backup.

 

[IowaLynn]

I use CCC since day #1, two TimeMachine sets, weekly / daily. Also when upgrade to new OS, keep one for prior version. Start fresh with Big Sur.

CCC, never just one.

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Hi All,

Thanks for the info guys, really appreciated
A lot to consider there for my use case. I'm slowly getting my head around this whole Mac thing, collating info before splashing cash on solutions etc.




Another question:

How come "Desktop and documents" was not ticked for my M1 MBA? (As per screenshot below)
Is this the standard for a new Mac?
If this really powerful function is not enabled by default, there must be a reason.

Hope you can advise
Regards
Martin

 

[James_C]

How come "Desktop and documents" was not ticked for my M1 MBA? (As per screenshot below)
Is this the standard for a new Mac?
If this really powerful function is not enabled by default, there must be a reason.

Martin,

It is a way of Synching your Mac with another Mac so all your files and documents on your desktop are available on both computers. Therefore it is primarily useful if you have two Macs (say a Laptop and a Desktop), so you can then edit a document on one device and then switch to the other and continue editing.

A tale of caution - My daughter damaged her MBA screen about a year ago, and we bought her a new one. I was going to sell her old one on eBay, I wanted to take pictures to show the damage on her screen before I listed it. She is a student and she keeps a lot of her dissertations and files in folders on her desktop, which I thought I would delete before I took the picture. She was in the room next door and I heard her scream as she literally watched hew precious work disappear before her eyes on her new MBA. I did not realise she had enabled Desktop and Documents on her old MBA and her new MBA so they were synced together. Luckily I had run a time machine backup just before I setup her new Mac, so she could recover all her files. She was not pleased with me for giving her a mild heart attack.

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Martin,

It is a way of Synching your Mac with another Mac so all your files and documents on your desktop are available on both computers. Therefore it is primarily useful if you have two Macs (say a Laptop and a Desktop), so you can then edit a document on one device and then switch to the other and continue editing.

A tale of caution - My daughter damaged her MBA screen about a year ago, and we bought her a new one. I was going to sell her old one on eBay, I wanted to take pictures to show the damage on her screen before I listed it. She is a student and she keeps a lot of her dissertations and files in folders on her desktop, which I thought I would delete before I took the picture. She was in the room next door and I heard her scream as she literally watched hew precious work disappear before her eyes on her new MBA. I did not realise she had enabled Desktop and Documents on her old MBA and her new MBA so they were synced together. Luckily I had run a time machine backup just before I setup her new Mac, so she could recover all her files. She was not pleased with me for giving her a mild heart attack.

Hi James,


Woah... that was close! Mild heart attack eh?!
Glad you have a good backup process going there! ?


OK, that's sorted for me then.
I won't enable this "Desktop and Documents" setting for iCloud backup. Its too risky for a newbie, let alone anyone else. Also, not required for my use case, I don't switch between a Mac desktop and laptop.



Kind regards
Martin

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Hi all,



iCloud "Backup" idea - is the below a goer? Any issues?

Can I simply create manual folders in the iCloud and store important static files there?

I.e. To simply to have an additional backup, off site, on the cloud. I have the spare iCloud storage space, and I am paying for it from apple anyway each month, so may as well use it!



My steps would be:
1. Create organised set of folders
2. Copy/paste files to archive
3. Check each file opens ok in iCloud folder, before leave it there for archive.


E.g. for Mudane items like:
1. Insurance certificates
2. Proof of purchase
3. Drivers licences
etc.
etc.



Hope you can advise

Best wishes
Martin

 

[IowaLynn]

Should work fine. I use OneDrive which has a secure pin / password protected Private Vault. I don’t see iCloud having that feature.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Hi all,



iCloud "Backup" idea - is the below a goer? Any issues?

Can I simply create manual folders in the iCloud and store important static files there?

I.e. To simply to have an additional backup, off site, on the cloud. I have the spare iCloud storage space, and I am paying for it from apple anyway each month, so may as well use it!



My steps would be:
1. Create organised set of folders
2. Copy/paste files to archive
3. Check each file opens ok in iCloud folder, before leave it there for archive.


E.g. for Mudane items like:
1. Insurance certificates
2. Proof of purchase
3. Drivers licences
etc.
etc.



Hope you can advise

Best wishes
Martin

Create a folder, put your documents in, and then password lock the folder with a different password from the computer or Apple ID. That will make it a little more secure.

 

[James_C]

Can I simply create manual folders in the iCloud and store important static files there?

I.e. To simply to have an additional backup, off site, on the cloud. I have the spare iCloud storage space, and I am paying for it from apple anyway each month, so may as well use it!

Marty that works fine and is exactly what I do - I have a folder for documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations and PDF files - Then these documents are available to me whatever Apple device I am using ( I have MBA, iMac and iPad Pro and iPhone).

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Awesome!


Thanks for the sanity check and tips on how best to do this on iCloud and OneDrive


Best wishes
Martin

 

[posguy99]

She was in the room next door and I heard her scream as she literally watched hew precious work disappear before her eyes on her new MBA. I did not realise she had enabled Desktop and Documents on her old MBA and her new MBA so they were synced together. Luckily I had run a time machine backup just before I setup her new Mac, so she could recover all her files. She was not pleased with me for giving her a mild heart attack.

So this important work product is not normally backed up, then? How important can it be?

 

[/V\acpower]

Martin,

It is a way of Synching your Mac with another Mac so all your files and documents on your desktop are available on both computers. Therefore it is primarily useful if you have two Macs (say a Laptop and a Desktop), so you can then edit a document on one device and then switch to the other and continue editing.

A tale of caution - My daughter damaged her MBA screen about a year ago, and we bought her a new one. I was going to sell her old one on eBay, I wanted to take pictures to show the damage on her screen before I listed it. She is a student and she keeps a lot of her dissertations and files in folders on her desktop, which I thought I would delete before I took the picture. She was in the room next door and I heard her scream as she literally watched hew precious work disappear before her eyes on her new MBA. I did not realise she had enabled Desktop and Documents on her old MBA and her new MBA so they were synced together. Luckily I had run a time machine backup just before I setup her new Mac, so she could recover all her files. She was not pleased with me for giving her a mild heart attack.

She would also have been able to recover them in iCloud.com for 30 days.

I mean, I get the "iCloud is not a "backup" it's a "sync" service. But let's be real, it is still a form of backup, not a perfect one, but still.

I doesn't protect a user from doing something stupid like deleting files, but it will still let you get back your file in case of "drive failure", stolen computer, a fire, etc.

To be honest, if I had to pick between only having either all my important files on iCloud Drive or all my important files on a local Time Machine disk, I'd feel safer having only iCloud, because I worry most that a fire could destroy all my files than me accidentally deleting a file and not noticing. (Something that has never happened to me in close to 20 years using computers regularly).

I get that having BOTH is a good idea. But it's not true that iCloud doesn't function as a form of backup.

Also, even if you take a service like Backblaze, the defaut pricing only give you 30 days of "old files version". So if you are extremely unlucky and get a "bit rot" on a critical file you still will lose the file unless you pay more for the "forever" option.

 

[Apple_Robert]

She would also have been able to recover them in iCloud.com for 30 days.

I mean, I get the "iCloud is not a "backup" it's a "sync" service. But let's be real, it is still a form of backup, not a perfect one, but still.

I doesn't protect a user from doing something stupid like deleting files, but it will still let you get back your file in case of "drive failure", stolen computer, a fire, etc.

To be honest, if I had to pick between only having either all my important files on iCloud Drive or all my important files on a local Time Machine disk, I'd feel safer having only iCloud, because I worry most that a fire could destroy all my files than me accidentally deleting a file and not noticing. (Something that has never happened to me in close to 20 years using computers regularly).

I get that having BOTH is a good idea. But it's not true that iCloud doesn't function as a form of backup.

Also, even if you take a service like Backblaze, the defaut pricing only give you 30 days of "old files version". So if you are extremely unlucky and get a "bit rot" on a critical file you still will lose the file unless you pay more for the "forever" option.

I believe BackBlaze charges $2 extra if you want more than 30 days versioned files.

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Hi All,

Back onto this again


I eventually did the upgrade to Big Sur 11.1. As part of this, the default was to set my documents etc. to iCloud. I've just checked my settings, and yup "Desktop and Documents folders" are now ticked for Cloud storage, as per screenshot at the end of this post.


As a mainstream newbie, I'm happy to go with the direction the MacOS is taking us, and will leave it as default.

But can I check I'm covered from potential awful mishaps of losing data, by this change to ICLOUD storage of "Desktop and Documents":


RE: Backups:
Q1) Is Time Machine reliable for backing up iCloud folders/Files - as well as local files?

Q2) Do I just go back into the Time machine, and check pre 11.1 for any local "Desktop and Documents" files, not transferred over to the new iCloud folders?

Q3) Is there anything else I need to check?
Is there anything else I need to be aware of, apart from the above posts of caution?



RE: Moved folders:
My backups done are:

1. I did a Time Machine backup, just before upgrading to Big Sur 11.1
- Before 11.1 I had my "Desktop and Documents" unticked (I.e. Set to local HD)

2. I upgraded to Big Sur 11.1

3. I did a Time Machine backup, A weekend on, from the upgrade to Big Sur 11.1




Hope you can advise.
Cheers
Martin

PS:
Fortunately I'm a newbie, so not huge folder contents or layouts.
Be good to have the folder structure settled down now, for me to start migrating stuff over from my messy Windows laptops.

 

[posguy99]

Don't. Switch it back. iCloud is not a backup, isn't billed as one, doesn't function as one.

Move your files somewhere ELSE before you turn off the option. If you don't, your files will disappear. You can get them back, but it's a pain.

 

[Gregg2]

I use my Mac the same way I always have, as if iCloud didn't exist. Now, the OS might be doing something different, but I'm not. The only caveat: before iCloud, I used the online IDrive as a third backup. Now, I copy the things I would have copied to IDrive to the iCloud Drive. So that is a change, but a subtle one.

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Hi All,

Back onto this again


I eventually did the upgrade to Big Sur 11.1. As part of this, the default was to set my documents etc. to iCloud. I've just checked my settings, and yup "Desktop and Documents folders" are now ticked for Cloud storage, as per screenshot at the end of this post.


As a mainstream newbie, I'm happy to go with the direction the MacOS is taking us, and will leave it as default.

But can I check I'm covered from potential awful mishaps of losing data, by this change to ICLOUD storage of "Desktop and Documents":


RE: Backups:
Q1) Is Time Machine reliable for backing up iCloud folders/Files - as well as local files?

Q2) Do I just go back into the Time machine, and check pre 11.1 for any local "Desktop and Documents" files, not transferred over to the new iCloud folders?

Q3) Is there anything else I need to check?
Is there anything else I need to be aware of, apart from the above posts of caution?



RE: Moved folders:
My backups done are:

1. I did a Time Machine backup, just before upgrading to Big Sur 11.1
- Before 11.1 I had my "Desktop and Documents" unticked (I.e. Set to local HD)

2. I upgraded to Big Sur 11.1

3. I did a Time Machine backup, A weekend on, from the upgrade to Big Sur 11.1




Hope you can advise.
Cheers
Martin

PS:
Fortunately I'm a newbie, so not huge folder contents or layouts.
Be good to have the folder structure settled down now, for me to start migrating stuff over from my messy Windows laptops.




View attachment 1723199

Hi All,


I'd appreciate some advise on this.

Be good to hear how best to back up my stuff - when I'm adopting this MacOS default of "iCloud the Desktop and Documents folders"


Hope you can help


Kind regards
Martin

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Create a folder, put your documents in, and then password lock the folder with a different password from the computer or Apple ID. That will make it a little more secure.

Hi Mr A,

Long time no speak!
Finally getting back to this.

As per below screenshot, I've created a new folder. however,. when I right click it, there is no option to add a password to it.


Where do I get the option to password protect a folder on the iCloud?



Hope you can advise
Martin

 

[Apple_Robert]

Hi Mr A,

Long time no speak!
Finally getting back to this.

As per below screenshot, I've created a new folder. however,. when I right click it, there is no option to add a password to it.


Where do I get the option to password protect a folder on the iCloud?



Hope you can advise
Martin




View attachment 1821944

Good to see you posting again, Marty. Hope you are well.

How to password protect folders on Mac in 3 simple ways - iGeeksBlog

Key Takeaways Encrypted folders can be useful to safeguard your crucial files, especially if you share your Mac with someone else. You can use the Disk Utility or the Terminal to lock folders on your Mac. If you are looking for a hassle-free method to password-protect folders on your Mac, you...

www.igeeksblog.com

 

[Marty_Macfly]

Good to see you posting again, Marty. Hope you are well.

How to password protect folders on Mac in 3 simple ways - iGeeksBlog

Key Takeaways Encrypted folders can be useful to safeguard your crucial files, especially if you share your Mac with someone else. You can use the Disk Utility or the Terminal to lock folders on your Mac. If you are looking for a hassle-free method to password-protect folders on your Mac, you...

www.igeeksblog.com

Mr A to the rescue!

Thanks!



PS:
I'm doing ok thanks, nice to finally have some time to sort out the Mac etc.
Hope you and your family are doing ok as well!