How do laptops from major manufacturers compared with the MBP?

[hallux]

I work for an IT outsourcing company (I won't say what one), as on-site support for a large corporation (my location has ~4,000 users, I also won't say what company). We have a mix of HP, Lenovo, Dell and Apple products.

From a build quality perspective (initial "feel" of the system in your hands) - Apple wins. However, the HP EliteBook I was issued is also solid, with Dell and Lenovo lagging.
From a service perspective (how easy is a repair?) - Dell wins with the most recent systems, hands-down. A system board can literally be swapped in 15 minutes on a Dell.
Lenovo comes in last in both categories (and is actually on the way out in our environment). They can be a PAIN to take apart and the tools needed to set service info (serial, model, etc in the ROM) are difficult to set up. I can't really speak to servicing an HP laptop as I have not yet had to repair one (and we've had them for 18+ months).

Now, our mix of systems is heavily weighted toward Dell. We have a SMALL % of Apple/Mac computers but I can tell you the new models are a PITA to repair.

One place where we might be considered above others is that we are an AASP, and get high-concentration locations set up as delivery locations for Apple parts. We service the Macs in-house rather than making our clients go to an Apple store. This allows for a 2-day turn-around on service rather than waiting 2 weeks.

I can't really speak to the overall performance except in relation to the computers I've spent time with. My HP has been my best computer yet, aside from the MBA. Maybe it's the SSD, maybe it's the hardware build, maybe it's Windows 10, I'm not sure. It's been the most stable and the fastest system I've used here. This HP also "travels" almost as well as the 13" MBA I have, I can't easily tell the difference in my backpack and I don't even have the "lightweight" model. The only thing I can't stand on it is the trackpad, but one could say I've been spoiled by those on the Macs.

 

[hajime]

When Thinkpad was under IBM in Y2K, they just swapped a new one for me.

 

[ajf.350d]

It would be interesting to find out what support IBM and Walmart get from Apple for hardware issues.
This is the one biggest pitfall I’ve found with Apple for business use.
A Dell laptop fails under warranty and we get an engineer onsite the next day.
Imac fails and it’s cart it off to the closest Apple store to get it looked at.

From a business perspective Windows is still going to have the widest compatibility. The company I work for alone has at least 3 major applications that will not run under MacOS and we are not a massive company.

The XPS are excellent laptops, and whilst there are the lemons, the latest MBP are not exactly problem free judging from the posts on here.

For the home user willing to spend MBP money, there are plenty of high quality Windows laptops to choose from, so from my perspective, it boils down to what OS you want and what features you desire. Wndows laptops have more technology options such as touchscreens.
MBP are great if you are part of the Apple ecosystem with iphone, ipad, watch etc.

 

[powerslave12r]

Dell's business line (especially the latitude 7xxx and 5xxx series) coupled with their warranty/service options are probably the best computers you can buy right now. I would stay away from the XPS13/15 and the Precision 5520 etc. Those have all sorts of reported issues.

 

[hallux]

This is the one biggest pitfall I’ve found with Apple for business use.
A Dell laptop fails under warranty and we get an engineer onsite the next day.
Imac fails and it’s cart it off to the closest Apple store to get it looked at.

This is where my company has a leg up (see my post above). All of our techs get certified for repairing Dell and HP (as that is what our customer is asking us to deploy right now) and select people are certifying for Apple. We do the repairs on-site, only needing a part to be delivered. No need to schedule a tech to come out, we're already there. As we're also supporting the OS and software, there are no worries about data security as an "internal" person is doing the work. It's all part of the support contract we have.

 

[theluggage]

Why not Microsoft's Surface line of laptops?

Google "surface sleep of death".

Apart from that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play? Well, I liked my Surface Book for most of its 30 day mayfly existence and it seemed to be close second to the Mac in terms of fit and finish. Good keyboard. Nothing has a trackpad up to Mac standards, but the surface was the best of the rest. USB-A and Mini Displayport so it actually interfaced with my stuff, magnetic charge connector, which also connected to their dock (proprietary and not cheap, but also had the ports I actually needed). Windows vs. MacOS? qv. ad nauseum elsewhere.

Main restriction was nothing faster than USB-C for peripherals.

Then it fell over and couldn't get up.

Also, MS Surface prices make Apple look reasonable...

 

[ShMac]

Why you sent back the Lenovo?

Let me count the ways...

I was surprised to find out how much I didn't like the keyboard and trackpad being offset to the left so it could have a separate numeric keypad. The keys themselves were only so, so. It wasn't awful but not my favorite keyboard either. Even after I disabled some of the trackpad functionality I still found it too easy to activate functions accidentally. It happened a lot! I got the most upgraded battery size but it increased the weight a lot, created a large round bulge on the bottom back of the machine so it was not streamlined sliding into a case or back pack, and even with a 97 W/hr battery it still would only get about 5-6 hours surfing the web if I didn't significantly cripple the machine and lower the screen brightness. It took 4 hours +/- to charge from 10% to 100%, the plastic case picked up dirt and finger prints like crazy, the screen didn't even seem terribly bright at 100%, the sound was not very loud and was of mediocre quality, it had trouble staying paired with my bluetooth headphones, I prefer paging through applications on the Apple with command-tab than through every open application screen with ctrl-tab, Apples might still be more secure, I would need to license MS Word and Excel instead of just getting Pages and Numbers included, and I am spoiled by the simplicity of Apple's system preferences menus over Windows Settings menus.

While I could've switched to another, the Edge browser that came with it seemed to have a substantial memory leak. There was also some kind of buffering problem where the keystrokes would be stored and only show up in some dialog boxes seconds later if at all. I think this was the Edge browser too, I'm not certain, but I didn't care to dig further because of all of the stuff above.

All-in-all, I just wasn't that happy with it or paying about $1600 (and for a machine that supposedly retails for over $2k). I had hoped that if I ordered a higher tier business machine I'd really like it, or like it enough, but I was wrong. If I had it to do over again I would either just order an MBP or maybe I would've tried a Zenbook Pro, but I don't think Asus has a return policy unless it is defective from manufacturing or broken during shipping, not to mention they were out of stock as well.

At this point, I am still relatively happy paying the "Apple tax" as I type this on my shiny new 2017 MBP 15 for $2425.00.

Oh, and it is very nice to still know that all application updates, OS updates, and OS upgrades come included as well. Also, the fingerprint reader on the new touch bar seems to work great too. Some people say it is the only reliable one on any laptop from any brand. I don't know that this is true.

 

[hajime]

Let me count the ways...

I was surprised to find out how much I didn't like the keyboard and trackpad being offset to the left so it could have a separate numeric keypad. The keys themselves were only so, so. It wasn't awful but not my favorite keyboard either. Even after I disabled some of the trackpad functionality I still found it too easy to activate functions accidentally. It happened a lot! I got the most upgraded battery size but it increased the weight a lot, created a large round bulge on the bottom back of the machine so it was not streamlined sliding into a case or back pack, and even with a 97 W/hr battery it still would only get about 5-6 hours surfing the web if I didn't significantly cripple the machine and lower the screen brightness. It took 4 hours +/- to charge from 10% to 100%, the plastic case picked up dirt and finger prints like crazy, the screen didn't even seem terribly bright at 100%, the sound was not very loud and was of mediocre quality, it had trouble staying paired with my bluetooth headphones, I prefer paging through applications on the Apple with command-tab than through every open application screen with ctrl-tab, Apples might still be more secure, I would need to license MS Word and Excel instead of just getting Pages and Numbers included, and I am spoiled by the simplicity of Apple's system preferences menus over Windows Settings menus.

While I could've switched to another, the Edge browser that came with it seemed to have a substantial memory leak. There was also some kind of buffering problem where the keystrokes would be stored and only show up in some dialog boxes seconds later if at all. I think this was the Edge browser too, I'm not certain, but I didn't care to dig further because of all of the stuff above.

All-in-all, I just wasn't that happy with it or paying about $1600 (and for a machine that supposedly retails for over $2k). I had hoped that if I ordered a higher tier business machine I'd really like it, or like it enough, but I was wrong. If I had it to do over again I would either just order an MBP or maybe I would've tried a Zenbook Pro, but I don't think Asus has a return policy unless it is defective from manufacturing or broken during shipping, not to mention they were out of stock as well.

At this point, I am still relatively happy paying the "Apple tax" as I type this on my shiny new 2017 MBP 15 for $2425.00.

Oh, and it is very nice to still know that all application updates, OS updates, and OS upgrades come included as well. Also, the fingerprint reader on the new touch bar seems to work great too. Some people say it is the only reliable one on any laptop from any brand. I don't know that this is true.

Haven't owned a Thinkpad under Lenovo. Not sure if they have changed the keyboard or it is just an individual case. At least when it was under IBM, the keyboards and the red cursor controller were very nice.

Can anybody who has used Thinkpad (under both Lenovo and IBM) comment on the keyboards under these two companies?

 

[Breaking Good]

Where I work, we have six year old Dell Latitude E5420’s that are still chugging along.

How long do you expect a laptop computer to work?

 

[mcpryon2]

I like the keyboard on one of the (recent) Lenovos we have at work. Granted, I don't use it a whole lot since we using it for streaming a video signal to a Hypercast at a cable company, but my first impression was "hey, I like this keyboard." Though the ethernet port broke on it because there is a clip holding the case together right by it, which apparently snapped. They aren't what they used to be...but I still like the keyboard.

 

[hajime]

I like the keyboard on one of the (recent) Lenovos we have at work. Granted, I don't use it a whole lot since we using it for streaming a video signal to a Hypercast at a cable company, but my first impression was "hey, I like this keyboard." Though the ethernet port broke on it because there is a clip holding the case together right by it, which apparently snapped. They aren't what they used to be...but I still like the keyboard.

Some things in the past are better than the presence's.

 

[zhenya]

Current Thinkpad keyboards are every bit as good as the old ones - if not better in many ways. Even most of the die-hard IBM-era Thinkpad fans mostly miss the old 7-row layout more than they have a complaint with how the new keyboards type. Key feel, sturdiness, etc. are all better on the new Thinkpads than the old-style models. They continue to be the best keyboards you can get on a widely available laptop by a long shot. The old keyboard is even available for a limited time again with the release of the T25 anniversary edition. I have a slew of Thinkpads coming across my desk week in and week out spanning a decade of design and the old keyboards are great as well - but they aren't worth obsessing over, IMO considering how good the current ones are.

I have the new X1 Carbon as my current work laptop. This is a very fine laptop. Better than the Dell XPS line by a large margin, better than their Latitude/Precision lines as well. We have always had great support from Lenovo, although we rarely need it these days. One thing to keep in mind is that all of the 'corporate' laptop lines like the Thinkpads/Latitudes/Probooks, etc have a huge span of available specs - and many corporate buyers tend to choose cost-saving options like the cheapest screens and mechanical HDD's which greatly impacts the user experience. I've been beating this drum to Lenovo for years - that allowing that to happen on flagship products like the X1, etc. damages the brand - I think they should allow that on the more regular models - T470, T570, etc. but enforce certain minimum specs on the top-tier X/P models in order to ensure a great user experience. That's the primary difference I think people see with Apple - the laptops are *all* sold with good quality parts across the board, so the user experience is more consistent. Otherwise I see no reason to believe that Apple laptops have better longevity than HP/Dell/Lenovo. All of ours are in use for at least a decade and generally still work fine when they are retired. If anything, the aluminum/glass of Macbooks would not be well suited to most corporate use as they are easily damaged by even minor falls.

 

[hajime]

Current Thinkpad keyboards are every bit as good as the old ones - if not better in many ways. Even most of the die-hard IBM-era Thinkpad fans mostly miss the old 7-row layout more than they have a complaint with how the new keyboards type. Key feel, sturdiness, etc. are all better on the new Thinkpads than the old-style models. They continue to be the best keyboards you can get on a widely available laptop by a long shot. The old keyboard is even available for a limited time again with the release of the T25 anniversary edition. I have a slew of Thinkpads coming across my desk week in and week out spanning a decade of design and the old keyboards are great as well - but they aren't worth obsessing over, IMO considering how good the current ones are.

I have the new X1 Carbon as my current work laptop. This is a very fine laptop. Better than the Dell XPS line by a large margin, better than their Latitude/Precision lines as well. We have always had great support from Lenovo, although we rarely need it these days. One thing to keep in mind is that all of the 'corporate' laptop lines like the Thinkpads/Latitudes/Probooks, etc have a huge span of available specs - and many corporate buyers tend to choose cost-saving options like the cheapest screens and mechanical HDD's which greatly impacts the user experience. I've been beating this drum to Lenovo for years - that allowing that to happen on flagship products like the X1, etc. damages the brand - I think they should allow that on the more regular models - T470, T570, etc. but enforce certain minimum specs on the top-tier X/P models in order to ensure a great user experience. That's the primary difference I think people see with Apple - the laptops are *all* sold with good quality parts across the board, so the user experience is more consistent. Otherwise I see no reason to believe that Apple laptops have better longevity than HP/Dell/Lenovo. All of ours are in use for at least a decade and generally still work fine when they are retired. If anything, the aluminum/glass of Macbooks would not be well suited to most corporate use as they are easily damaged by even minor falls.

Thanks for your experience. How is going with the cases these days? I had a T20, T21 and X10 before. The black coating on the cases got worn off easily. This created shinny looking corners and edges. Do the current Lenovo Thinkpads have this issue?

 

[zhenya]

Thanks for your experience. How is going with the cases these days? I had a T20, T21 and X10 before. The black coating on the cases got worn off easily. This created shinny looking corners and edges. Do the current Lenovo Thinkpads have this issue?

I can't rightly say off-hand. I know some generations have this issue more than others - I'd have to take a closer look at what we have at the shop to see how different models have held up. My X1 was new in July so haven't seen any sign of wear yet - although it does still use a soft-touch finish so who knows in the long-run.

 

[Tech198]

Hello, I have been using Apple's laptops since the Apple II c. I don' know about the products for the past two years but in general the build quality of the MacBook Pro are very good. Even there were some hardware faults in some models, Apple took responsibilities as long as we got Apple Care. Unfortunately the 2016-2017 ones are not my cup of tea. Regardless of the OS, are laptops made by other manufacturers (such as Razer Blade, Microsoft, current Lenovo, Asus, etc.) really that bad in terms of quality and after sales surfaces? How long do those laptops usually last?

Thinkpads were good under IBM. (The only complaint was that the black coating on the surface of the case got worn off quickly. So, one could see shinny corners/edges on the case.) Don't know about Lenovo.

Spec wise: other manufactures u get better gaming systems and/or powerful hardware but when you sell a Mac, they have better mark-up.

negative is: other manufactures models don't usually last as long as terms for quality.

Laptops are laptops,,, their treated more roughly anyway.

However Apple has had their fair share of problems..

 

[hajime]

Spec wise: other manufactures u get better gaming systems and/or powerful hardware but when you sell a Mac, they have better mark-up.

negative is: other manufactures models don't usually last as long as terms for quality.

Laptops are laptops,,, their treated more roughly anyway.

However Apple has had their fair share of problems..

Don't know how Apple behaves under Tim. At least when it was under Steve, users who bought Apple Care were treated very well (i.e. exchanged for the latest model with slightly higher specs) when Apple could not fix the issues for about 5 times. Can anybody comment on how Apple behaves these days when there is a design fault?

 

[ShMac]

Haven't owned a Thinkpad under Lenovo. Not sure if they have changed the keyboard or it is just an individual case. At least when it was under IBM, the keyboards and the red cursor controller were very nice.

Can anybody who has used Thinkpad (under both Lenovo and IBM) comment on the keyboards under these two companies?

Of course, a lot of things are individual. And, most people can adapt to just about anything so long as it actually functions--if they will.

I could've dealt with the Lenovo OK. The keyboard was far from the worst I've ever touched. I particularly disliked that it was offset to the left to keep a numeric keypad. I could use it well enough. I wasn't missing keystrokes or anything. But, it just felt wrong, it felt asymmetrical--bad ergonomics for the very symmetrical human body.

Personally, I don't want to adapt to a less ergonomic experience to save a few bucks. I expect to get at least 5 years out of each high end machine I buy. This does not seem unreasonable to me when I fork over a few grand. Paying a lot, and spending so much time with a machine, I want the smoothest and most seamless experience possible. Needing to step backwards is not reasonable to me when I'll spend thousands of hours with one device.

 

[hajime]

Looks like a lot of things in this world is like that. Things that are built these days are not as good as the past because companies want to get things out to a mass market.

 

[j.burris]

I'm having a problem because I don't know whether a dell is reliable and will last at least 3 years or whether to pay $2,500 on a MacBook Pro or buy a gaming laptop for less like a dell inspirion or xps15.

 

[zhenya]

We get 10 years out of most of our laptops, primarily Lenovo but a few Dells. But the extended warranty if you are concerned.

 

[laptech]

I've owned both Apple and other manufacturers laptops, i also serviced Apple and other manufacturers laptops and from my professional experience, from a cost/hardware point of view, if you was to use the price of an Apple laptop and used that same price to buy one of the other manufacturers laptops, Apple loses every time. If your paying $2000 for an Apple laptop, you can get a laptop that will seriously outperform the Apple in both superior hardware specifications and reliability.

 

[slu]

I've owned both Apple and other manufacturers laptops, i also serviced Apple and other manufacturers laptops and from my professional experience, from a cost/hardware point of view, if you was to use the price of an Apple laptop and used that same price to buy one of the other manufacturers laptops, Apple loses every time. If your paying $2000 for an Apple laptop, you can get a laptop that will seriously outperform the Apple in both superior hardware specifications and reliability.

This may be true (and there are many people who will tell you it is not), but you are not considering total cost of ownership (i.e. resale value, software costs) and MacOS itself. There are a lot on non-hardware reasons to choose a Mac over a similar cost PC.

 

[hallux]

I could've dealt with the Lenovo OK. The keyboard was far from the worst I've ever touched. I particularly disliked that it was offset to the left to keep a numeric keypad.

I have a similar "issue" with my HP from work. The trackpad is offset so I'm constantly clicking the right button instead of the left, when I use the touchpad.

This may be true (and there are many people who will tell you it is not), but you are not considering total cost of ownership (i.e. resale value, software costs) and MacOS itself. There are a lot on non-hardware reasons to choose a Mac over a similar cost PC.

Several companies (most prominently, IBM) have reported exactly this. Despite the higher buy-in, the overall TCO when you factor in support costs is actually LOWER for a Mac.

 

[hajime]

I think Surface Book 2 will be available this Thursday. I want to try it out.

 

[hajime]

I am excited about the Surface Book 2 unboxing video but she mentioned that the power supply is "massive"! Surface Dial seems to be more exciting than the touch bar. Seems to have some wobbling. Better check out the real computer in person.