How do you feel about using Google services?

[siyah.]

After watching the PBS documentary 'United States of Secrets' and having listened to the creepy dialogue below, I cut myself off Google completely. Principle over convenience...

LIZ FIGUEROA, (D) State Senator, CA, 1998-06: We walk into this room, and it’s myself and two of my staff— my chief of staff and one of my attorneys. And across from us was Larry, Sergey, and their attorney.

All of a sudden, Sergey started talking to me. He said, “Senator, how would you feel if a robot went into your home and read your diary and read your financial records, read your love letters, read everything, but before leaving the house, it imploded?” And he said, “That’s not violating privacy.”

I immediately said, “Of course it is. Yes, it is.” And he said, “No, it isn’t. Nothing’s kept. Nobody knows about it.” I said, “That robot has read everything. Does that robot know if I’m sad or if I’m feeling fear, or what’s happening?” And he looked at me and he said, “Oh, no. That robot knows a lot more than that.”

link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...itics/united-states-of-secrets/transcript-61/

 

[Vegastouch]

After watching the PBS documentary 'United States of Secrets' and having listened to the creepy dialogue below, I cut myself off Google completely. Principle over convenience...



link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...itics/united-states-of-secrets/transcript-61/

Google doesnt know my finances and it cant read any letters i might have. I think this is all over exagerated. How is using Maps equating to knowing your finances? Because it might know my homes worth....IF it chose to even look? LOL, i doubt they would be impressed.

 

[jamezr]

Google doesnt know my finances and it cant read any letters i might have. I think this is all over exagerated. How is using Maps equating to knowing your finances? Because it might know my homes worth....IF it chose to even look? LOL, i doubt they would be impressed.

LOL...just go to Zillow and enter any address. It will give you how much the home is worth. What is sold for before you bought it. It will give you the prices of the homes in the neighborhood too.......this is all public information.
This kind of stuff is so overblown and out of proportion......

 

[Vegastouch]

LOL...just go to Zillow and enter any address. It will give you how much the home is worth. What is sold for before you bought it. It will give you the prices of the homes in the neighborhood too.......this is all public information.
This kind of stuff is so overblown and out of proportion......

Exactly what i was refering to. They could look but so can anybody. I doubt Google is looking at that stuff and thy have your address for shipping purposes, IF you have bought a phone or tablt from them. And guess what......so does Apple if you buy from their online store. This means nothing. Some people are blowing this out of proportion.
If you use eBay or Paypal, there is more info there than Google has and i know most here use eBay and PP.

 

[gotluck]

then you can plug it into the county property appraisers website and get even more information

then take the owner's legal name and plug it into the county clerk of courts and pull the actual deed, mortgage docs, other recorded liens etc..



so basically if you want privacy, only rent.. or forgo homeowners exemption and buy your home with some shell corp, that you could probably dig through to find the real owner in state corp records anyway

so much information is public it is crazy. The government gives it away freely too At least I can count on google only selling ad spots (that I block with an adblocker )

 

[Vegastouch]

then you can plug it into the county property appraisers website and get even more information

then take the owner's legal name and plug it into the county clerk of courts and pull the actual deed, mortgage docs, other recorded liens etc..



so basically if you want privacy, only rent.. or forgo homeowners exemption and buy your home with some shell corp, that you could probably dig through to find the real owner in state corp records anyway

so much information is public it is crazy. The government gives it away freely too At least I can count on google only selling ad spots (that I block with an adblocker )

Just look at this forum. I just went right before i came back here to reverb.com that is a guitar auction site, etc...... an ad for it is now at the bottom of this page as i type this. I get that all time time on this forum. They are watching me lol.

 

[gotluck]

Just look at this forum. I just went right before i came back here to reverb.com that is a guitar auction site, etc...... an ad for it is now at the bottom of this page as i type this. I get that all time time on this forum. They are watching me lol.

heh, I doubt this site is using doubleclick for ads, so I don't believe you can blame google for that one

 

[Oletros]

After watching the PBS documentary 'United States of Secrets' and having listened to the creepy dialogue below, I cut myself off Google completely. Principle over convenience...

I suppose you will also ditch Microsoft, Apple and Yahoo! Principle over convenience...

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heh, I doubt this site is using doubleclick for ads, so I don't believe you can blame google for that one

It uses doubleclick

 

[gotluck]

It uses doubleclick

Heh, macrumors is unsafe then it seems

Or macrumors feels good about using google services, to stay OT

 

[jamezr]

Heh, macrumors is unsafe then it seems

Or macrumors feels good about using google services, to stay OT

Thought it did...i see ads for stuff i have browsed on Amazon. Doesn't bother me at all. I don't mind targeted ads....at least it is relevant to what i was looking for in the first place.

 

[ATC]

Im just curious, I'm wanting to try out google's ecosystem, but I don't know why I get the impression I shouldn't trust them. I guess its just me being over protective with myself, but things like google now telling you information before hand is very convenient; however, it gives me the vibe of Big Brother. Can somebody give me some insight about the whole google experience and make me more comfortable with their platform.

FWIW, I use Apple, MSFT and Google services daily but I'm mainly in the Apple ecosystem (mostly due to hardware choices; iMac, iPad, iPhone etc...) and frankly I don't have a problem with using any of the three.

As others have said, more eloquently than I could, it's pretty naive to think they're not all striving to get their hands on the same data.

From the NSA snooping POV, it's really fruitless to think you can pick one ecosystem that is not prone to it. Google, MSFT and Apple have all had high-level classified meetings with NSA director Keith Alexander in the past year, and from what I've read it looks like all three are equally on-board with what the NSA wanted to do. So don't for a second think that Apple or any other company is not prone here.

From the Ads POV, here again Google is just at the forefront of capitalizing on data; but ALL tech companies are chasing the same carrot, they know what ad revenues will bring to their bottom line.

Importantly, trust is as easily lost as it is difficult to gain. Google, of all companies, knows this quite well. Which is why they've been so aggressive, and were one of the early ones to really beef up their server-side encryption for email (Gmail). Another thing I admire Google for is their leadership and staunch support for net-neutrality but that's an entirely unrelated subject.

In matters of privacy, this report by the Electronic Frontier Foundation was an eye opener for me personally, it's a worth a read. Link: https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013?support_whyb=1&social=1

It really all boils down to which ecosystem works best for you. For me, it's more than just a desire, it's a need to use Google services especially in areas like Maps where no one else really comes close. Where I live Apple Maps is, sadly, not a serious contender (poor POI database, non-existent live traffic, errors abound that to this day have not been fixed etc...).

One area that I am keenly interested in is auto integration (I do a lot of driving) but after reading an opinion piece recently that suggests Apple will likely force us to use Apple Maps in CarPlay, which would be a deal breaker for me, I'm now starting to look at moving to another mobile ecosystem. The silver lining for us at the moment is we have choices, it's just a matter of picking the one that works best for us.

 

[ron7624]

Thought it did...i see ads for stuff i have browsed on Amazon. Doesn't bother me at all. I don't mind targeted ads....at least it is relevant to what i was looking for in the first place.

I've been searching for an iPad music stand holder. One that attached to a microphone stand and would adapt to both the iPad Air in the iPad mini. My quest failed and could not find one for both devices.. The next day, even though I have targeted ads turned off on this device, I saw exactly what I have been looking for in an add.
I bought it.
So now I am on the fence with this topic.
I had received a similar device for Father's Day, but was made for the iPad mini only, and I wanted to be able to use either one of my iPads when performing.

 

[siyah.]

I suppose you will also ditch Microsoft, Apple and Yahoo! Principle over convenience

Once the Chinese up their game, yes, I will I don't mind them as much as I mind the NSA

BTW, Apple is definitely less evil. It lets me choose which apps have access to my location, contacts, and calendar data. With Google it is all or nothing.

I find it at best extremely naive to still failing to comprehend the difference in approach to privacy by Apple and Google.

For my mail. I came across ProtonMail.

Principle over convenience

 

[pdqgp]

Google gives users those services for one reason, and one reason only; to enable them to track and record information about you.

iTunes, Google, Amazon, your credit card co. your grocery store, Wal-Mart, and yes even Apple do the above dude.

iTunes tracks you more than you think...for one reason only.....to sell you more stuff. Please....

Whether it is gmail, search, voice, or DNS, it exists as a tool to gather and store more data about you and your behavior - all to better sell you to advertisers. Maybe you are ok with that - I am not.A.

you don't have to be okay with that, it's happening to you regardless if you use Google Services and stay with iOS. You just don't realize it. Even your cell provider has access and works with the information you provide them by using your smart phone.

Dude, big brother is here and perhaps you just don't know it. Anyone here besides me been in the military? Please...don't get me started on how yes, even your precious iPhone is leaking information about you. People have access to it whether you want them to or not.

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As for being inappropriate, do you think it's bad that Tim Cook is on the Nike board and that company recently decided to stop working on their Fuelband?

It could easily be a coordinated effort between the two companies. It is not obvious to me that it is bad.

your last statement is the most revealing about you and Apple. You're right, it's not obvious to you and that's what Apple is good at. At least with Google, we all know what's going on.....

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At no time did Apple or anyone else need to know my location. And I think that is the result of purposeful design.

you really think no one else knows your location? funny.....again, ever serve in the military?

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Google doesnt know my finances and it cant read any letters i might have. I think this is all over exagerated. How is using Maps equating to knowing your finances? Because it might know my homes worth....IF it chose to even look? LOL, i doubt they would be impressed.

More than Google know your finances. Tons of companies are in the business of data-mining. Ever google yourself and wonder how odd-ball sites makes "guestimates" at what you make, who you live with, are related to, etc.....

Not all of the information is correct either, yet they mine it and sell/re-sell it over and over again. Tons of things you do is public information.

You might grant access to an app to use your location, that app is in business with stores nearby and they are all in collaboration to gather information about you and others passing by. I was in that business for a few years. It's not hard to believe and it is happening. Stores just don't located based on what basic demographics and great "locations" any more. They know Way, way more about you than you think and know exactly where you are, when and that information is used and sold.

Doesn't matter if you use an iOS device or never use Google Services. You're being tracked.....not stalked individually, but yes, you are being tracked. Email is of little need or concern as are letters. You reveal less in email and texts about what stores want. They use your browser, internet provider, cookies and locations more than messages. Those letters you get...all that junk mail and email.....isn't placed in your box at random.

 

[Alrescha]

in matters of privacy, this report by the electronic frontier foundation was an eye opener for me personally

I think the most recent report might be of more interest:

https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2014

A.

 

[Alrescha]

iTunes tracks you more than you think.

Please do not pretend to know what I think.

even your precious iPhone is leaking information about you.

No one says otherwise.

you really think no one else knows your location?

No one ever said that.

Tons of companies are in the business of data-mining.

No kidding. Nobody claimed that they were not, but this thread is about Google. The main reason we are talking about other companies (Apple included) is that someone insisted on making a claim along the lines of "Google is just doing what everyone else does". My response is in this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/19296634/

In short, that claim is ridiculous.

A.

 

[pdqgp]

I think the most recent report might be of more interest:

https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2014

A.

if you're quota internet posts and media vs having actually worked for a data mining company or served in the military first-hand whereby phones were accessed daily then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Alrescha]

Do you think it is the same thing as Apple tracking you for food, clothing or whatever with iBeacon and sharing your movements with those retailers

It is a shame you have not read the previous posts. As already described, iBeacons are transmitters. They do not track anything. They do not even know you are there. If you have *opted in*, apps that you have chosen to install might receive those beacons and do something with them.

A.

 

[pdqgp]

Please do not pretend to know what I think.

Please....I've read your post and I don't need to pretend what you think.

this thread is about Google. The main reason we are talking about other companies (Apple included) is that someone insisted on making a claim along the lines of "Google is just doing what everyone else does". My response is in this post: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/19296634/.

Amazon does not know that you went to Newegg yesterday.

Really? You believe that? I know first-hand Amazon can and likely does know where you shopped. They are a large customer of many data-mining sites. They don't just use the history from their site to know what you're searching on the internet.

When you sign up for a Google service, one in which you provide your personal information, Google now has the ability to take all that previously collected data (which we might have considered harmless) and link it to you.

As do many other companies.

No other company can do this. No other company is in a position to do so. Attempting to equate this huge data-collection engine to some company's tracking of its visitors is doing people a disservice.

Yes they do and yes they are. I spent 18 years of my career in technology prior to a switch and most of it was in the area of data collection. I did this for both the private sector and in the military. Apple is no different. They are an excellent marketing machine that data mines and buys intel from data mining sites just as other companies do. They monitor message boards and social media just like others too. WOW! the funny thing is people don't realize that any and all social media sites are excellent money making machines with the information that is of such value being jammed into them faster than any marketing site could have hoped for.

I just think that people should know what they are getting into.

Great empty statement. "Okay everyone, know what you're getting into....."
Why not define what "getting into" is and how to avoid it. Chances are you can't avoid whatever it is you're trying to warn everyone to be aware of.

 

[Alrescha]

I know first-hand Amazon can and likely does know where you shopped.

In previous posts I demonstrated exactly how Google can know what I claimed, and how it was unique to Google. Perhaps you could provide similar information about how Amazon does it. Some links to hard data would be helpful, I am sure.

A.

ps: You like to sprinkle your posts with references about your background as if nobody else here had experience in Internet security. That is not a good assumption to make.

 

[Lloydbm41]

It is a shame you have not read the previous posts. As already described, iBeacons are transmitters. They do not track anything. They do not even know you are there. If you have *opted in*, apps that you have chosen to install might receive those beacons and do something with them.

A.

Might want to read up on the tech and what Apple are doing. Here's a quick excerpt:

"The problem for marketers has been that they could only use this technology if the customer had the app actively running while they shopped. However now, with the iOS7.1 upgrade, Apple made it possible to have all this happen just by having the app installed. It does not even have to be running. Now the phone’s operating system keeps listening for the iBeacon signal and tracks the customer even if the app is turned off and the device locked."

 

[Alrescha]

Might want to read up on the tech and what Apple are doing

You might want to re-read what I posted, and then re-read your excerpt. Nothing I said is contradicted by your post.

A.

 

[jamezr]

Everyone is wasting your time with Alrescha. He has a specific agenda. He states his opinion as fact and has a very narrow POV.
He has an agenda against Google. By his own words he does not like them since the partnership with Apple ended. He was fine with Google and their services when they had a partnership Apple. But when the partnership ended now he very much dislikes and rants about them.
But while they were best buds with Apple he had no problem consuming Google services. Do you see a distinct pattern to his posts? Apple good......Google bad. Everything Apple is above reproach and good for mankind (LOL) and Google is evil.
All of his rants have this theme over and over. Even when presented with evidence that Apple does pretty much the same thing as Google.....he never changes the ranting......
Read this quote from early on in this thread.....it puts his motives in perspective.

Quote:Alrescha
You are right, I do not like Google very much anymore. I was excited when they were an Apple partner, and Apple and Google were bringing the wonders of technology to our desktops and pockets. History happened. That excitement was kicked to the curb, probably never to return.

 

[pdqgp]

In previous posts I demonstrated exactly how Google can know what I claimed, and how it was unique to Google. Perhaps you could provide similar information about how Amazon does it. Some links to hard data would be helpful, I am sure.

Amazon is a customer of many data mining companies. I'm not going to post any documentation as I'm not going to have anything lead back to me directly. I'll leave it to you as a cynic to believe they are not. I know first hand they are. If you seriously need me to map out the above request on how Amazon does it then you clearly don't understand data mining.

ps: You like to sprinkle your posts with references about your background as if nobody else here had experience in Internet security. That is not a good assumption to make.

No assumptions made and I'm not sprinkling anything, I'm noting it because while you're quoting interest post and media claims where I am speak of things from my own first hand dealings with them. People can take both our points as two-lies-and-a-truth as they say but either way, I'm doing it to point out to you that I have background in the industry that is directly tied to the companies in question. No one has to believe me.

If you have/had the same first hand experience then you already know I'm correct and would have agreed but you haven't and since you're arguing with me on the points I know to be fact I can conclude you don't. Again, I don't care what others believe, I'm telling you I know you you don't.

If the thread ends with nothing more than my telling you I know you're your not correct that's okay. I just want you to know I know it. I know you are incorrect and I don't suspect you have worked with Amazon on their data mining contracts as again if you did, you wouldn't have made the claims you have. No sprinkling of anything, I'm tossing a lump right into your coffee directly. I'm not calling you out to the group, I'm calling you out one on one. Thanks for playing.

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Even when presented with evidence that Apple does pretty much the same thing as Google.....he never changes the ranting......
Read this quote from early on in this thread.....it puts his motives in perspective.

I don't follow all his posts but I can tell he's arguing an incorrect point. If anyone thinks this war is about hardware or even operating systems, they are living a few years in the past. Today's battle IS about the data and the information. Apple is just as guilty as the other companies and to think they are only about gaining market share of the hardware is pretty antiquated thinking and shows poor understanding of today's business climate.

The old adage of information is power holds true and is even more applicable today than years past. The cloud isn't just about where you store things, it is about what you store there. How ironic that Apple followed the suite of many others by moving to cloud based systems. They found out there's gold in them-thar clouds. Why have people store this valuable data on their own computers when they will push it in masses to a "cloud" where it will then be accessible. The concept is beautifully simple and brilliant.

 

[Alrescha]

while you're quoting interest post and media claims where I am speak of things from my own first hand dealing

I post references that people can read and evaluate for themselves. You post unverifiable claims. Which do you suppose is more useful to people?

A.